Raf

True, WordWolf, but I was not aware that anyone other than the Geerites who left by 1989 knew about those books. I stuck with the two that were actually sold in the TWI bookstore. Were the other books sold in the TWI bookstore?

Why? I'm not going to change your mind. You're not going to change mine. You can ask me to look at that site, I can ask you to look at Buzzard's book. Where does it get us? I assume you've looked at the evidence and have drawn a conclusion. Give me a little credit here: I've looked at the evidence too. I draw a different conclusion, and I'm not particularly interested in arguing to point to death with someone who has already made up his mind. I discuss this on a regular basis with folks who've never been exposed to a Biblical Unitarian position. That's different: it's not arguing. It's exchange. Def, you and I would just be arguing. I'd rather not.

Picky picky.

When I was in, it was my understanding that JW publications were dirt cheap (I'm talking cost, not content). But even at these real bargain prices, they were a lot cheaper to produce. The profit margin was astronomical. I forgot where I read that: I THINK it was in the book "Witnesses of Jehovah," which I have long since lost. Oh, and my memory concurs with Refiner's: The money isn't made by selling the products to the public, but selling them to the followers who MAY accept payment for them when they give them to others, but often do not.

That's all right. You'll sound fine so long as the rest of us are drunk.

You're a good sport, Def. We should have a beer sometime. You can try to talk me into the Trinity, and I can try to talk you into karaoke.

Def, this page will sum up the discussion, point for point. :D-->

As for my "vicious tone," I treat you with the respect you have earned. Wanna know something really weird? In recognizing PFAL for what it is, as opposed to worshipping it for what it is not, I honor and respect PFAL more than you ever will.

Here you go. Cream and sugar are on the counter.

And... how would you like your coffee? I have a question, having visited the ex-JW board and seen some of the (yikes!) discussions that go on there: do you still consider yourself Christian? You don't have to answer, but you DO have to try the coffee here. I'll have it for you in a second...

You are the liar here, Mike. But I appreciate your assessment of me. Coming from you, I take it as the highest of compliments. If I've got your Satanic influence worried about the source of any revelation I may receive, then I am surely doing something right.

Years ago. I came to PFAL assuming it all to be true. It was only through careful reading and prayer that I realized that not all of its contents were true. When you came along spouting your idolatrous nonsense, it was as easy to refute as someone walking around talking about the moon being made of green cheese. I think it's clever that you refer to my rejection of your nonsense as idolatry. Telling me that I idolize tradition is plain old ordinary flat out stupid, but coming from you, I'd call it standard. You, on the other hand, idolize the imperfect work of an imperfect man. And you proudly proclaim your unwillingness to consider a contrary point of view. You CLAIM you looked at PFAL honestly, but your words have demonstrated that you have always considered PFAL to be God-breathed. YOU HAVE NEVER HONESTLY CONSIDERED THE POSSIBILITY THAT PFAL IS NOT GOD-BREATHED. I reject your idolatrous swill, Mike.

So you're less likely to consider the merit of our counterarguments to your idolatry because we outnumber you, right?

Mike, You have so established a lack of trustworthiness that your denials prove my conclusions more than any recap or quote of your idolatrous rantings. But thank you for playing. That wasn't the poster's implication. That was your inference. The poster (Def) only cited a statistic. You're the one who injected meaning into it. Take a grammar class, it will help you communicate more effectively.

Dan, you're looking at Def's post from the wrong perspective. Look at my earlier post and you'll see where Def was coming from. Def, my post was aimed at my inference from Mike's post, namely, that he finds comfort in the fact that most of us are rejecting him. The fact that one's views are rejected are not an indicator that they are right.

Did you mean Ref, Raf or Def? Which was it, Tom?

Originally posted by Mike: A majority of Christians rejected Charles Taze Russell. A majority of Christians rejected The Prophet Joseph Smith. A majority of Christians reject Papal Infallibility. A majority of Christians rejected gnosticism. A majority of Christians reject Rev. Moon. A majority of Christians rejected the Branch Davidians. The level of acceptance of a doctrine is no guarantee of that doctrine's accuracy. The level of rejection of a doctrine is no guarantee of that doctrine's accuracy. You and God would make a majority, if only you would listen to Him. Too bad you continue to refuse.

Oldiesman has a copy of the book signed by VPW. Your memory notwithstanding, I think that proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that he was alive when it was published. Perhaps the ROA was the first time you saw it, even though it was released a few months earlier? Or maybe he pre-signed a bunch of copies?

Nope. You might be thinking of Living Victoriously and Take God at His Word. Both were edited and released posthumously.

Correction, Tom: That one vote is "I'm willing to give Mike a shot." Mike has not voted (presumably).

By the way, it's "Unitarian Universalist."

You'd probably have more success with the pig. Mike, however, has proven to be an excellent dancer: dancing around questions, for example, seems to be his specialty.

Try this site. Call first. Make sure the music is still available.

Sal Arico, a New York believer, put a CD out for one of the offshoots in 1995. It was called "Watching." One of the tracks was based on a Wierwille saying from Lifelines. I know, I know, but pretend it was anyone but Wierwille who said it. Or pretend that this was really real, from the heart... Every man has a void inside and he fills it up with lots of ego and pride while searching for the truth the devil tries to blind his eyes. But God gave his grace and those that hear with humble hearts listening, to God they draw near To give them their hearts' desire His Word sets their soul on fire All I want to do is serve God Love His people, and move the Word Give Him all the strength that I've got Love Him with all my mind, all my soul Give God all the love my heart can hold. This song is a gem. Well done, Sal.

Or maybe I give JW's a bit more credit than you do. At least they actually meant "master" when they called him "master." My problem with JW's was the legalism. My problem with TWI turns out to be the licentiousness. Best of both worlds.