LearnedTooLate

BluzieQ, Welcome from me, too! Actually, I don't get here that often but when I do I see so many wonderful people with wonderful advice. I haven't closely read all the posts but I wanted to add something of my own. I wasn't raised in the Way, although my mother got me in TWI when I was a teen and I later got my children involved and taught them the TWI doctrine and principles. It took an effort to get them back out of TWI when I left! Fortunately, my mother got out shortly after I got involved. Also fortunately, she is a very educated woman and I was raised to embrace learning opportunities. I raised my children that way also. How was that you wanted to speak of greater things with your family and never had the opportunity. The good thing is that you've now had that experience and will never make the same mistake with your offspring/loved ones! There is so much to learn in this world and I don't care how wonderful a certain 'denomination' is, none of them are the be all to end all. There's ALWAYS more to learn! Radar mentioned that there are a lot of people around here who were raised in the Way. A thought struck me when I read that, in light of your post. There should be a post/forum/or web site for those who were RAISED in TWI to discuss the issues that caused. Actually, I don't think an entire web site would be necessary, just a good thread or forum. You brought up some points that made me feel very thankful for my upbringing and I'm sure your posts could help many others. I know, a 'God told me to tell you' situation, huh? LOL. Not really. I didn't say YOU need to start the thread/forum. I;m just saying that you and the others 'Raised Way' ("RW"s!) may have quite a bit to help one another out with. Of course, nothing beats good professional help if that's what's needed, but a group of people with the same concerns and interests can be very healing. Thanks for posting, dear BQ. I hope your family sees the light one day. There's nothing more frustrating than seeing people stuck in something that is so misguided and wrong. Never give up hope on them. You just never know what may stick in their minds to turn on that light-bulb clarity! Just keep being the wonderful woman you are, with a sound and loving mind. If you were my daughter I'd be very proud of you indeed! LRND2L8

LOL!! That's the funniest thing I've ever seen! Especially since I'm usually throwing kitties off my keyboard as I type. That is, if I can even see the screen to read it with the kitties chasing the mousie! LOL! Thanks!

Rascal, An interesting question. My answer is, wholeheartedly, "YES!" Why? Because I was "in" in the late 70's & early 80's. I saw people who were truely loving and Godly, regardless of the garbage coming out of HQ. I learned some very important things that helped me not only then, when I was a troubled teen, but later, when life got REALLY tough and I would have buckled otherwise. I doubt I could have survived some of the things I've had to deal with had it not been for some of the keys, principles, and beliefs that I held as a direct result of TWI teachings. Does that mean it didn't hurt when I found out TWI was a crock? Oh, God, did it ever hurt! I felt absolutely devastated. I felt like everything I'd ever learned was now subject to question. I felt betrayed by the very people I should have been able to trust, my spiritual leaders. The fact of the matter is, they DID teach us that the only thing you could really trust is God, not people. I do remember that. It's helped me understand why some of them could do so much harm. I've struggled a great deal trying to understand how it could have seemed so beautiful and great in the beginning and end up so bad and I have to say part of it is my fault. I WANTED to believe they were the best thing since sliced bread. I wanted to believe they were perfect and Godly. I wanted to believe they were infallible. I shouldn't have been so naive. In my defense, I do have to say I tried to go back and re-up with TWI after the 'Fog years' and after LCM took over. As much as I thought he was the greatest, funniest teacher when I was in my early 20's and he was a Corps Coord, I thought he was a jerk when I came back in my 30's married and with kids. At least THEN I wasn't so naive and blinded by them! It would have been nice to have lived life with the 'fairy tale' of TWI's perfectness intact. To think all the teachings were 'right on' and to think that all the early day teachers were Godly would have been very easy. But no, it had to get hard. I had to get the rose colored glasses knocked off my face. I had to see reality and boy, was it some work to sort through everything and come to peace with it all. In spite of the pain, in spite of the disillusionment, in spite of the heartbreak, I am very thankful they were there way back when I was a floundering teen who needed direction and needed love. There were so many people there (mostly the 'leaves' if I remember correctly) who had a wonderful, genuine love for God and God's people and they made all the difference. Thank you to all of you who were "in" for the right reasons: for the love, for the "family," for the learning, for the joy. I learned what true joy within really is. To hell with all of you who weren't in for the right reasons: for power, for greed, for the ability to manipulate, lie and decieve. Unless you have learned better. LRND28

LongGone, The Peeler's ARE speaking for themselves and attempting to show that TWI failed in their fiduciary responsibility to "the Peeler's"...Not "us". This discussion would be a whole lot easier if you'd quit taking my opinions and thoughts and attributing them to the Peeler's lawsuit. I am using "us" in an attempt to clarify just what it is they are suing about. Sorry to confuse you, but then I'll bet you are trying to be confused just to have something to argue and be a sourpuss about. There is nothing, to my knowledge (and my knowledge is very limited, I don't think I've even read the lawsuit) that says the Peeler's are suing TWI for any "collective abuse". It is an individual case from and about them. When speaking with Ron, and his attorney, (ah, Lawrence Levy! THAT'S his name. Slow memory!) I got the distinct impression that they wanted this case to possibly lay the ground work for future claims/lawsuits by making public the depositions and court records after it was done. Yes, they could change their mind and settle. That's their deal. And I wouldn't blame them one bit, especially since some people are so freaking ungrateful for any little headway we make against TWI. Good God, the Allen's poured blood into THEIR lawsuit (as I'm sure the Peeler's are) and it's easy to see how they got tired of it all and decided to walk away with the cash. I hope they are enjoying it in grand fashion! It is my hope that the Peeler's are able to hold out and stand strong until the end so more of TWI's lies and atrocities are exposed. But if they decide not to then I'll sure be thankful for how hard they worked for what they attempted because it means TWI WASTED their money fighting this and WASTED their time and attention that they might have used otherwise hurting other innocent God-seeking people. The Peeler's (and the Allen's) are already victorious in that they have brought A LOT of attention to 'supposed' wrong doings of TWI and that's making many people take notice. Good for them! So, to the Peeler's, Allen's & anyone else who has ever stood against TWI and said, "Hey, wait a minute there..." YAHOO to you all and thanks a bunch! I sure appreciate it. I'll betcha many others do, too. Except for LongGone. He's taking sourpuss pills regularly and can't seem to see the good in the situation.

Since I come here rarely (although more often lately!) I hadn't seen this before. I always come to these TWI sites wondering what kind of things do people see for the first time when they are trying to get answers and there's so much to sort through. Bob, this is a great thread to give a brief rundown on TWI. Catcup, excellent facts. I agree, the truth and facts ARE important. Very important, as are our experiences. As you said, it is vital that we don't 'spout off' making many errors that end up making this site look foolish. I remember when my father, a minister, sat me down and confronted me about the 'guns' and the 'guard dogs' in the 70's or 80's. I thought it was ridiculous. Some of the things he said was not factual, therefore he lost his credibility with me. Too bad. It would have saved me a lot of trouble if he'd had accurate information and was able to tell me things that were true and easily backed up. I admire some of you who were close to the upper echelons. I was a mere 'leaf'. All I knew was people hugged me and said God loved me. When I came back, years later, as an older and wiser adult, I began to see things that alarmed me. I wrote it off to the area I was in at the time. Wrong again. It wasn't until I was able to find information about TWI online that I finally got answers, and began to heal. Thanks to all of you here who are so faithful to report so many details factually. Thanks also to those of you who report on thoughts & feelings, of which no facts exist outside of your mind. Both are very valuable to learning about TWI and healing from the hurt. A GREAT thread. Thanks to all! LRND2L8

Yes, Long Gone, perhaps I am naive. After all, I believed a bunch of rednecks on a farm in Ohio a long time ago! So tell me, why do YOU think the Peeler's want to put themselves through the trauma of a lawsuit? Were they just bored one day? Nothing to do? Wanted to get kicked around by all of us AND the court system for fun? Pursuing legal issues is very tiresome and not for the faint hearted. They must think they have a fabulous reason to take on TWI or else, I suspect, they'd find something other than that from which to get their 'jollies'! Will they settle? All I can say is a year or two ago, when this all began, they were very firm in their conviction that this should go to trial in order to make all the testimony a part of a public court record. They wanted others to be able to see exactly what TWI has done. At this point, perhaps they are tired of all the bull and just want to get on with their lives. Who could blame them? And why should you blame them? It's their deal-not yours or mine. I will continue to hope and pray for the best for them, and for the strength to continue on with the goals they had when they started. We should all wish the best for them rather than continuously criticize them for what they are attempting to do. They are pioneers, as are the Allens. But why should I expect people to wish them the best? When the Allens decided to settle because it was so traumatic to them to keep on they got a lot of grief from all the naysayers here. I couldn't believe that reaction because none of them OWE us anything (in contrast to TWI, the Allens & the Peelers have NO fiduciary responsibility to us). Do you realize how much people like the Allens & the Peelers have afforded us here? Look what the Allens started with WayDale. Who knows what will come of the depositions & testimony from the Peeler case? It could be earth shattering for those who have left TWI and for those still in bondage to them! How about we wish them the best in their efforts and let them know we stand behind them in all they are attempting? Why the need to criticize & call names? I just don't understand that, unless, of course, you (not just you, LG, but 'you all') are either still in or you are so intimidated by people who actually DO something about the wrong they see? Thanks, Peelers, and all those who are helping out with the lawsuit! I sure do appreciate it! If it opens the eyes of just a few people to the evils of TWI and gets their hearts & minds free then it is entirely successful! LRND2L8

Rascal, You are welcome. I've watched people like Toad say negative things about different lawsuits for a long time. I thought it might help others to hear the answers to some of the same questions I had when I heard about the lawsuit. The attorney made it all very clear in just a few simple sentances. I was attempting to make it easy to understand and to dispel rumors. You're right. They (TWI) won't change until they are hit in the pocketbook. I, personally, am thankful for people like the Allens & the Peelers who put themselves at more risk of heartache to set TWI straight. I wish I had it in me. It's not so much about personal gain, although who can blame them for wanting financial restitution for the trauma they are putting themselves through to go through the process of a lawsuit. It's about making TWI stop and think about what they are doing. It's also about making the remaining followers take notice of where their ABS money is now going! Gosh, how much did it cost them to defend LCM in the Allen's lawsuit? And the Peeler's suit is costing a whole lot more, I bet, because they are going to the end. They aren't going to settle (or so I've heard). Why can't people quit picking on others who have the GUTS to take action rather than try to discredit them? Sure, Toad may know Ron Peeler from the past but who is "blameless" in this life? I suspect anyone could look up information about anyone of us and make issue of how we could be called greedy or mentally ill. Hell, I'd probably admit to that from time to time in my life! Just let the Peeler's (and anyone else who choses to hold TWI's feet to the fire) do what they need to do and wish them the best. Stop bringing up everything they've ever done wrong when it has nothing to do with TWI's fiduciary responsibility, as well as their moral and ethical responsibilities! The said they represented God. They said they were teaching us the truth of God's Word. They made so many promises to us (yes, to you, too, Oldiesman & Toad). Keep to the issue here! It's about that and not about Ron Peeler's previous life.

Uh, Oldiesman, the ATTORNEY isn't saying we in your above quote of what I originally posted. "I" said it. I said "we" because I was in TWI and had my heart broken along with so many others. I TRUSTED them to teach me about God and His Word accurately. I TRUSTED them to do the right thing in every situation. Remember, in the 70's, how they used to teach that you 'give a dog a name it can rise up to'? In other words, you believe the best about people & things. That's what they wanted us to believe about them. "Trust your leadership. Even if they are wrong God will still cover you." Oh yeah? That was a nice thing for them to teach us in order to get us to blindly follow them. Their fiduciary responsibility in that? Don't teach it if you know your leaders are teaching crap. Don't play with people's hearts and emotions. Don't steal from them the ONE thing that should be sacred: their trust in God. Lie, cheat, steal, and destroy (sounds like a verse they were good about teaching, John 10:10) all you want but DON'T DO IT IN THE NAME OF GOD! Ha. It turns out that THEY were the "thief"! Anyways, Oldiesman, keep in mind what I am saying verses what the lawsuit and/or the attorney says before you make judgements. His comments were based on my questions of 1)"What is this lawsuit about?" and 2) "What is fiduciary responsibility?" It has nothing to do with attempting to collect on past ABS payments, no matter if they were coerced or not. In fact, that should be the subject of another thread. Trust me on this one thing, that attorney is a very wealthy, busy attorney. He has no interest in taking on a case that has no merit. No matter how much you discuss it here you cannot be privy to all that is involved (I'm certainly not!) and to do much speculation is somewhat foolish. Another thing to note, Ron Peeler is an MD with the ability to make an awful lot of money, much more than many who spent long years in TWI. If it weren't going to be successful for him why would he waste his time and effort to pursue this? Greedy you say? It would take an awful amount of greed, and a touch of mental illness I'd guess, to pursue a lawsuit that takes up several years of your time and many thousands of dollars. Gosh, I recently inherited money from a relative and the process I had to go through to get the modest amount was exhausting! Groucho, glad I could add some light. It's good to see your face around here again. ;)--> Trust the attorneys & trust the Peelers. They know what they are doing. It's gonna be great.

I sat and spoke face to face with the lead attorney for the Peeler's case (I've forgotten his name. It's the same lead attorney for the Allen's lawsuit. The guy from California.) and asked him directly, "So, what IS this case about, anyways?" He told me the Peeler's were suing TWI for "Fiduciary" responsibility and lack thereof (my words, not his, except for the "fiduciary" word). I sat there gaping at him, then managed to ask, "What the heck does that mean?" He explained it to me in a way that was very clear and concise, a way that I probably will not be able to convey here to you. Basically, he explained that we trusted TWI with so much, and they let us down in so many ways. Like, we trusted them to keep their promises. We trusted them to teach us accurate biblical research. We trusted them to hold our hearts and lives with the utmost respect and esteem. We trusted them with so much (ABS was a very SMALL part of what we trusted them with) and THEY LIED TO US AND LET US DOWN IN SO MANY WAYS. So, then the question becomes, "How does one punish a group or person for breaking their fiduciary responsibilities to others?" The answer is to hit them where it will hurt them the most: in their pocketbooks. Do you think TWI will care if the Peeler's pursue a lawsuit against them for a "slap" on the wrist and an apology? Maybe a small blurb in a newspaper that says they did wrong? NO! Absolutely not! The only thing that will get their attention is to hit them in their pocketbooks and make the understand that they had a "fiduciary" responsibility to us all and they were neglegent in it. That is how the attorney described it to me. I've met Ron Peeler. Whoever it was who had a lot of negative things to say about him probably knew him years ago but doesn't know him now. How many of us here can say we've always been proud of everything we've ever done? Not me, that's for sure. What I will submit to you is that we all live and learn and grow from it. Ron's heart is to make TWI aware of the gravity of what they did to so many people who trusted them with their hearts, lives, and spiritual growth. The Ron I know is a tender, loving family man. A direct contrast to what was described in an earlier post, isn't it? But it's my impression of him when I met him a couple of years ago, right as he was filing the lawsuit. Please keep in mind that none of us know ALL the details of the lawsuit and to discuss it here as it being a 'way to recover money he gave to ABS' is entirely wrong because it is absolutely about TWI's fiduciary responsiblilty to the Peeler's, and, ultimately, to us. This lawsuit, if found favorable by the courts, can and will open the door for many of us whose hearts and lives have been destroyed by a group CLAIMING to be teaching us about God and His love for us, but who were only taking advantage of us. My hat is off to the Allen's and the Peeler's who have the guts to get out and DO something about the lies and deceit of TWI. Groucho, you don't know me under this name believe me when I say we've known each other for a long time. It's NOT about recovering ABS money but, perhaps, recovering some TRUST after having all trust ripped from you. Peace to all of you. I mean no harm or disruption here but I wanted to tell you about my private conversation with the lead attorney (I don't know why I can't think of his name right now. Sorry) and my understanding of the case. ----------------------------------------------- Webster's dictionary definition of FIDUCIARY: 1) Law. A person to whom property or power is entrusted for the benefit of another. 2) Law. Of or pertaining to the relation between a fiduciary and his or her principal: a fiduciary capacity; a fiduciary duty. 3) Of, based on, or in the nature of trust and confidence, as in public affairs, a fduciary obligation of government employees. 4) Depending on public confidence for value or currency, as fiat money.

Nancy was divorced and living in middle Georgia several years ago (maybe 6 or 7). Last time I talked to her she said she was thinking of moving out to Arizona, I think, because there was a large following of ex-Way people there that she wanted to hang out with. You might try contacting Don Graniero in Atlanta, or Cumming, GA to find an address, email, or phone number on her. They were great friends when she was in Atlanta and he followed Chris Geer's teachings.

Bill and Collete are still married (as of a couple of years ago) and living in South Florida. They are NO LONGER in TWI. The last I heard from them was on the onelist, or "The Oddlist" as many call in. It is Jim Martin's list and you can access the list by using this link: http://www.yahoogroups.com/subscribe.cgi/The-Way There is a member there by the name of Tom who knows them personally and has visited them at their home.

Elevated liver enzymes can cause itching. Lipitor can definitely elevate liver enzymes and it may take more than 6 weeks for your liver to return to normal after stopping the medicine. Don't worry about it too much. It should get better with time. Alcohol is mentioned because it is harsh on the liver also. The combination of alcohol and lipitor is a double whammy. Keep using lotions. Use a non-allergenic type laundry soap (one without scents or dyes, one that is mild enough for a baby). You might want to get your doctor to check your liver enzymes and compare them with what they were before you started Lipitor. If he was being thorough, he would have checked them before prescribing the medicine to you. They may or may not still be elevated at this point but if they are you will know to stay away from anything that will hurt your liver further. Tylenol is also hard on the liver at high doses (you never want to take more than 2,000 mg a day of tylenol). If you are taking that right now, stop. Take ibuprophen (advil) instead since it is cleared more through the kidneys than the liver. Most of all, just give this a little more time and the lipitor damage will wear off and you will quit itching. Good luck!

How interesting that TWI would chance the loss of income from a video or teaching tape by posting tidbits from a Sunday Screaching, um, I mean Teaching Service. Oh, I get it. They hope to draw new 'potential' members to the site, right? Well, rots of ruck, dudes of The Way. I watched the singing. I was struck by the thought that in the last few years they have come up with absolutely nothing new to sing about. How sad. I didn't want to watch the teaching but I'll bet there was no new light shed at that meeting. Am I right? At least if you are supposed to be a teaching ministry come up with a few new things to teach. I have an idea. Maybe they could write a song about "Our Stagnant Religion"? That would be appropriate and it might even perk things up a little. Those green tents the Chorus Criers are wearing are terrible! But I guess they had to do something with the tents left over from the ROA, huh? How appropriate to make tents for the people dumb enough to still be there after all the life was sucked out of the place. Another thought: it really angers me that they took "our ministry" (I saw that quote somewhere in another post) and turned it into something so stiff and dead. We should be able to go there and visit with the people we used to love and they aren't there anymore. They robbed us and they broke their promises to us, didn't they? Remember when VPW would call out, "It's good to be home again"? I used to love that and I really felt like it was my home. I was always happy to be home again to visit my brothers and sisters. Now, forget it. I wouldn't go there to that place if you paid me. That ....es me off even more. They stole that place from us (not just from the Wierwilles). It belonged to us. It was paid for by us (well, most of the improvements and buildings were, maybe not the original farm). Why do we allow them to hold it away from us when it was us who paid the price for it? Yes, Socks. That is Debra. She is, or was, one of the most loving women I have ever known. I still keep a picture of she and I hugging but that was from a long time ago. I'm sure she's not even the same. She used to be such a believer and lover of God. I don't see how anyone who remains at that place could still love or believe in God, but maybe that's just my opinion. I'm sure if you ask any of them they'd say that God was number one in their lives. But after watching the videos it is clear that it is TWI who they worship, not God. Notice Claudette is gone. She finally made the break and she doesn't live there anymore for the first time in maybe 20 or 30 years. Maybe Claudette is getting smart. I hope she knows there are many people who are out and very happy. I hope she knows she needs only ask. There are many who would help her get on her feet. It really saddens me to see some of these people in the videos. Why do they stay? Is it because they've been there so long that they have no idea of how to make in outside of TWI's controlling walls? Is it because some of them just got in and don't know that the walls behind the pretty wallpaper are crumbling? Or is it because they believe things will change at TWI? Things will not change no matter how hard you 'believe' and pray. Things will change when people open their eyes and quit supporting the beast. They have to disregard sometimes decades of indoctrination and brainwashing (negative brainwashing, not positive). They have to forget all the threats that bad things will happen to them. Fear IS believing in reverse yet thats what you have been taught to do since the day you took PFAL, session 1! It's one of their little tricks; teach you that fear is bad yet at the same time teach you many things to be afraid of, subtlely. It's the ultimate form of bondage and you don't even know it's happened to you! Good luck on getting out of TWI, all of you still in. Really. Remember this: if you want to get out all you need to do is ask one of us to help and you will get help. Just be careful that you watch and choose people who have proven their trustworthiness over time here at GreaseSpot. I say that even though I am a fairly new poster because I've been lurking a long time and I've seen that some people are worth having help you and others still need help themselves. I don't mean that in a bad way, what I mean is that people should make wise choices. It's good to *not* be home again. -->

In another thread (the 'Donna Martindale, Still Wife of the President' thread), Catcup said that in addition to having to give account of "our finances, our marriage, our families, our children, to justify what medication we were prescribed and for what, get permission to go on vacations and with whom we could stay" they were also required to turn in "intimate" schedules. Is that really true?? I've heard about the finances, the time schedules (accounting for what you were doing on what day of the week), the vacation limits, and other things but I've not heard of having to turn in "intimate" schedules. What the hell did they care when you had sex with your spouse (I assume it was for married people)? Was it so they could hone in on those not having ENOUGH sex in order to "hit" on those people? Kind of like letting TWI know you weren't having enough sex so LCM and his merry band of cohorts could "help out" in that area and be "donors"?