Thelema

:)--> And if he was, what about "all nine all the time"? Where was the revelation to stop all this madness and abuse of power? Why did "leadership" did not get the revelation to put an end to these injustices?they didn't, they got the taste of power and went along with him, those who didnt, got the boot. it just does not add up to biblical specifications or godly design. that being said, how can you get works such as JC our passover, and JC our promised seed, etc? amazing works even in the secualr world.Planetariums use PS for their christmas shows. Passover made "Passion of the Christ" that much better, (or worse). These are simple illustrations, but you see my point. Its things like these, that keeps alot of people still in and out from writing off VPW. You have some good, you have a dang ton of evil.

HCW, congrats about your daughter getting into Yale. you must be proud! This thread has been a juggernaut of "good ol days" info, which spun out of control somewhere around page 5 or 6, i dunno. what amazes me, is the intense hurt, bitterness, angst, callousness,hostility, anger, that is STILL there among you "old timers" ;)--> . This kind of hurt cannot be the fruit of a godly ministry. I was abused in the Way, physically, mentally, and spiritually from a child, less so as an adult. Was this God's will? No, but God is limited to the extent of the humans "working" for Him. I am not a victim, and am bigger than any transgression that was inflicted upon me, I learned from it, then moved on, able to talk about it to help others if need be, or whatever. I do not understand the present level of hurt by people, but i guess we are all at different phases of recovery, from that time in our lives we were involved in TWI. I guess this thread answered my question about vpw's legacy. No longer really acknowledged at TWI, VPW is best remembered forever by website testaments of victims, admirers, devotees, enemies, and critics. It seems like he did more harm, than good...the negativity of his actions throughout his life, was far more reaching in the end than any of the good that he might have done. Will anyone ever REALLY know?

:D-->thanks for the laugh today!!

HCW, you have become one of my fav writers here on Greasespot, and you only just begun, hopefully. You have shed some light on VPW, the man, the myth, the legend. What do you think, honestly? Do you think he was right, that he was tapped into something Godly? That HQ was once a blessed place to be? Or do you think it was some sort of weird farce, another hippie christian cult that sprang up and ran its course entirely too long? Was he just a father figure to some thousands of young hippies who disappointed their conservative mommy and daddy? I was born into the ministry and knew VP as well as a young person could. I loved being around him, and i have very good instincts when it comes to people. I mimicked him in the mirror, with my little bible, and said "Thaaat's riigght!!" Us mini-corps spent alot of time with him when he came to visit rome city, and i remember loving every minute of it. When VPW died, the ministry changed, and has never been the same since. The only thing close to the old days was the Rock, which was still amazing till the end, until LCM shut that down as well. LCM was always too abrasive to listen to, when i had to sit through teachings. VPW at least, was a great teacher, i always payed attention until he was done. Just things that i think about, that prevent me from writing off VPW as something special. Was he actually what alot of folks said he was, or was it me just being young and naive? So, what is your opinion on the authenticity of VPW's ministry? Even though he had many women and all of that, did that make a difference or what? Most folks still admire/respect VPW, or they hate him for his own hypocrisy.

About that era, was that it affected us fellowship goers as well. We would have to make up our OWN schedules for the month, because we had to "plan the adversary out of our lives". We had to fill in when our mandatory teachings were, and what our mandatory topics of the teaching should be. I would want to teach on something i read about some cool thing in the OT, but could not teach on it unless it keyed off a recent Way mag, a recent SNS tape, etc. Fellowship became so rigid and regulated. You could expect what would happen everytime without even going. Also, leadership would have such a firm grip on your life, that the overall vibe for me was suffocation. So, everyone in the fellowship would be teaching, but it would all be on topics we already heard in the sns, way mag, collaterals, blah blah blah. Naturally, some people should NOT be teaching, thats why we have leaders who have skills in that area so the whole room is not bored to tears. Geez, full time corps sounded good, but they had so much more time to meddle in OUR lives and think up more ways to make fellowship "fun". You could tell that they wanted something excited to happen so they would have something to do, but it just became too regulated and mundane.

seems like a silly, little website composed by someone who is nostalgic for the "good ol days" of the way. Alot of youth adv. pictures, does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling of the past. Abagail rocks!!

As Karl Marx said, "I am not a Marxist!" :D-->

seeme-----wow, you are a brave soul, along with your family. Glad to hear you all are not victims, but are strong, and i hope life has nothing but the best for you all.

Before my own departure from the Way: conservative Republican After: liberal environmentalist/activist Before: salted, committed, young, way disciple After: open to many world beliefs, cannot put "God" in a box, not a fan of way splinters and western christianity The truth is, the Way was never MY choice. Until i got out in the world, on my own, i finally was able to know who i was, and what i was about. The Way never felt right, it was always a battle to succumb to leaders who had no idea what i was about,....mostly puppets, weaklings, uneducated. True, there were some great people and great times, but few and far between. So, when i finally left (thank you greasepot and waydale), it was excellent to finally learn, grow, and live who i really was, finally free of the limited participation of life due to the shackles of Way dogma. The Way is for people who like being told what to do, people who like having "answers" given to them that explains "everything". It is much easier to sit in fellowship, or a pew, and be told how to live life, than to look inside yourself and walk down that path of life on your own. No one knows you better than yourself, so how could someone in "leadership" know whats best for me? They never did. All they seemed to care about was attending fellowships, ABSing, showing up for another set-up, and spewing the salespitch to bring new people to something where the fire had been long gone. To this day, i still cannot go into any detail about things, or people will recognize me. What kind of organization is this where people drop family members like they were nothing for speaking the truth?? Soon....

g b, was pretty much an a-hole when you stepped out of line, but i have not heard any incidents involving hime personally, or that i can remember. who knows... Does anyone remember children's camp? Single corps with no experience in charge of children, while parents were off at corps week. That was fun. We did do alot of cool stuff, like capture the flag on uncle harry hill and things like that. It was a fun time for most kids, those who were out of the loop, were pretty much kicked to the curb, you know, parents who were just "twig coordinators". These camps were huge, then they shrunk and shrunk, till nothing. same with teen summer schools. too much drama!!

satori:

excathedra: yes, the kids were seperate from the parents, as far as rooms went. Alot of times, kids shared rooms with other kids. This older kid did do some abusive stuff to me, but it was mostly innocent, nothing major. That was the only incident of that kind of stuff with me, no adults. My parents had their own rooms, but the kids rooms was always in the same hall at least. When we were not in school, we had to eat lunch with all the Corps. So we heard alot of the lunch time rants and raves. Too much info for young minds, most of the time. anyways, could go on and on, but people are getting the drift. yes, greg. b was a total perv, in charge of childrens activites for years.

Having been through the mini-corps at the Indiana Campus, ive heard many stories of girls (not many boys, that ive heard) through the years who have been sexually molested during their stay at the campus. It is fantastic that Mark Naberschnig finally got busted for his perversions, even though he was on the field, he was still trained as Way Corps. This is just a tip of a VERY LARGE iceberg, IF more people bring to light these horrible acts that were imposed upon them. One of the reasons why molestations were prevelent at the Indiana Campus when there was still alot of Corps coming in, was that there was sooo many people watching kids for other people. The parents would be in classes all day, study hall, etc, that children's activites would basically babysit the kids all day, all week. Then you had the rovers, who patroled the halls at night, when the kids were suppossed to be in bed. Perfect scenario for a child abuser. Good parents, who would not normally expose their kids to so many people, had no choice, if they wanted to follow the corps outline for the day. So, people with these sexual problems could have easy access to children while parents were off taking classes, being slaves around the grounds, out witnessing, etc. Now, there were alot of great people in those days, but there were some sleazies who slipped in, and preyed upon innocent children. When these kids grew up and become junior corps, it explains alot of the illicit behavior that dominated the social scene. This also affected kids when being "wooden-spooned" by total strangers. Basically everyone at the Indiana campus wore wooden spoons in their back pockets for easy access for all kids that needed "reproving". So, people who were watching the kids, alot of staff, for some corps it was their job that block, or whatever, could reprove, or spank kids, when they deemed necassary. so, single corps, from emporia or hq, who had no experience with kids, could smack the hell out of them, it they did not "obey". There were numerous times that i got the spoon, that left brusies and abrasions from some excited corps person. This was common, and accepted among the children. We almost left due to that, and i wish we had. The family corps program exposed kids to all kinds of people who should not be in the position of overseeing children, period. To childrens activities, ground crews, rovers, there were perfect opportunities for the sexual predator to take advantage of situations. I am glad that justice has been served for one offender, but i know this is just one of many occurances that have left many more victims.

me: I am going to be going on vacation for a week at Yellowstone National Park, sooo see ya when i get back, okay? wayscumbags: what? you need to notify the leadership of the state, or states of where you are going to be visiting. You need to check in with US, at LEAST, everyday, if not EVERY HOUR. Not only do you need to check in with US, you need to check in with every limb coordinator in EVERY state you travel through, and ESPECIALLY when you get to Yellowstone, you need to send EVERYONE faxes of your exact location. Not only that, we ALL need a copy of your itinerary, at least a WEEK before you go, so we ALL can apporve this little,, um, trip. Why exactly are going anyway? We really need to use YOUR house for the next foundational class. YOU really need to plan better, and give us more notice, like a year..... sound familiar??

its called a signiture.... ..and there is no reason, nothing to wrap your brain around, sooooo see ya around the forum! cheers!!

you want m/ ;)-->

you can do whatever...

in a row...

multiple times...

what happened to the kinder, gentler GSC, where people did not post...

good point...

So, any "news" worthy events happen at the Special?? I wonder if they even filled up the conference room this year. I have a feeling it was the usual socializing,you know, the reaffirming "who's standing" and who's not, blah blah blah. How can these people keep going to the same tired functions, listening to mini-martindales, year after year? im just curious about what the attraction still is... also, what is the offical line up of teachers for the new foundational class? anyone know? cant find a thread on this yet...

Why didnt they play some real songs, like that one song, whats it called, "im gonna wash my feet in the blood of the wicked..." that would be a real good tune to post! very energetic... there was also that one song about hanging the devil from a tree. lcm sang that one, so i guess thats out... Why are there no young people anymore??, take a look at the way prod....BORING!!! everyone there looks like they are about to keel over!! way prod used to be awsome, i still think they should bring back that one song, "IM GONNA CARRY MY BIBLE TO SCHOOL I DONT CARE IF PEOPLE THINK IT AINT COOL,, IM GONNA WITNESS TO ALL OF MY FRIENDS, IM GONNA TELL THEM HOW TO GET BORN AGAIN!!" WHOOO HOOOO i havnt thought about the way in awhile, but it seems so sad that something that had alot of great memories turned into something so shameful....

I have not posted on the ol greasespot in years, but now i smell blood, and i love it. i have to be the greedy wolf and get my face bloody, too. the corporation which is The Way is bleeding like a geyser, and are falling to their knees in desperation with an actual open letter to greasespot from Harve. (he should have stuck to playing guitar, instead of writing) This single act actually authenticates the power of greasespot and the weight this site wields to dispel ignorance about "fellowshipping" with the way. Much respect to Paw and all those who keep this site going. what seems to be lacking is the unified front the wierwille family needs to establish to finally defeat the thing that made their name familiar to thousands around the world. it seems mrs. wierwille will be the sacrificial lamb, how ironic that she will be the downfall of something she help build from nothing, maybe she will be the one laughing last... and why is it, that mrs. wierwille now has all the care she needs, assests and all of this, and did not have all that back in february when jp first inquired about her health care at the way? it would seem, since the way hightly regards her as an esteemed househould member, that living her "sunset years" at home would be the only logical choice. it seems completely insane that mrs. wierwille will spend her final days away from her home of so long, while outsiders and cultists continue to infect the wierwille land like a plague. Thelema "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law."