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Bramble
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I have not said the bible is worthless, pond, so don't attribute that to me. I'm questioning.

There are a myriad of Christian doctrnes all based on the same Bible, not all Christians see unbelievers getting eternal damnation.

It does not look like a loving or even particularly healthy doctrine to me, nor have you showed me the greatness and necessity of it from your Bible in any way that makes sense.

Accepting Jesus does not mean I have to accept the doctrine that unbeliever will burn to ash.The 'this is the way it is just accept it' is something I don't have to do, nor do I belive that it is true.

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it is about love.

Gods love.

a legacy is written dancing and it is HOLY and it is scripture.

no one is going to LIve in heaven ever Dancing. other than God and Jesus Christ.

The kingdom is on this earth dancing. not heaven.

ignorance of scripture does not make for a firm foudation of what the heck you what ever want to type about. I find it boring.

if you want to just ride this merry go round of what YOU think or who you are have at it, watch a tv show get cable roam the net, plenty do it all the time.

My standard is what the bible says who Jesus Christ is and what we can know as truth of Gods PLAN for mankind. and yes it is the bible and it is chapter and verse and it isnt all over the place in thoughts ,it is written very very clearly for all to read or learn if you chose.

but some just like to switch channels of thought on the tv called doubt and whatever eles you can make up today to say or do.

the bible says to avoid such strive and endless questioning because some do want the truth from God they want to make up their own.

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I have not said the bible is worthless, pond, so don't attribute that to me. I'm questioning.

There are a myriad of Christian doctrnes all based on the same Bible, not all Christians see unbelievers getting eternal damnation.

It does not look like a loving or even particularly healthy doctrine to me, nor have you showed me the greatness and necessity of it from your Bible in any way that makes sense.

Accepting Jesus does not mean I have to accept the doctrine that unbeliever will burn to ash.The 'this is the way it is just accept it' is something I don't have to do, nor do I belive that it is true.

you can and will pick and chose what verses work for you , if you wish.

I tend to believe what scripture says as truth. and it is clearly written just because you do not like it doesnt make it any less of a truth, does it?

God gives us the HOPE of Christ returning for our comfort.

funny how some decide they know better how things and situations should be handled more than God himself.

good luck with that in life I happen to have my eggs in a different basket than what man will think should be.

My money is on the bible and its truths and on the redeemer of My Saviour the Lord Jesus christ praise God.

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and your truth is to accept a Jesus

of whom you seem to know little of

yeah scripture

right there in plain sight

the autobiography of the soul

hidden from so many that can even read

the living word in the flesh

not exclusive to Jesus alone

there is one with many

many in one

command that this stone be made bread

thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God

shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds

PRESENT TENSE

out of the mouth of God

How many people were in the wilderness with Jesus?

Where was this taking place?

You want to follow the way?

Better be ready to wrestle God Himself.

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Okay pond, you've held forth and witnessed your view. Unbelievers will burn to ash, but humans aren't the enemy and it is all about love and if we don't believe it it is because we're channel surfing or full of strife or something else bad.

I didn't think anybody was here to witness, I thought it was a discussion. So now you can shake the dust off your feet and move on.

In a doctrinal forum there will be questioning, even endless questioning and strife. It is the nature of the forum. No one is here to be spoon fed the acceptable truth and just accept it because you believe it to be true. That's why it is a discussion forum, not a 'go here to be a true believer' forum.

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the way???

Jesus christ says he is the Way and I do attempt to follow HIM.

WE know Him through the spirit , so what pray tell does the scripture mean to you dancing?

anything at all? or is it all about how you feel in the moment? W

hat thought may come flying in your brain cell and will work for you?

i like

having this book and hearing and reading and knowing it is the all about the LIFE my God created for HIM to love.

I like reading it and then seeing it all come so very very true.

it is a wonderful truth!

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Okay pond, you've held forth and witnessed your view. Unbelievers will burn to ash, but humans aren't the enemy and it is all about love and if we don't believe it it is because we're channel surfing or full of strife or something else bad.

I didn't think anybody was here to witness, I thought it was a discussion. So now you can shake the dust off your feet and move on.

In a doctrinal forum there will be questioning, even endless questioning and strife. It is the nature of the forum. No one is here to be spoon fed the acceptable truth and just accept it because you believe it to be true. That's why it is a discussion forum, not a 'go here to be a true believer' forum.

Well doctrine is doctrine, Bramble and I didnt write the doctrine . But I will not deny it . discuss it sure you bet it is fun isnt it?

It is true because God says it is true bramble . I had no say in the matters of how God determines what will be. It isnt my view it is Gods view. It is the standard of truth it is doctrine of being a disciple of Christ.

I will say thank you for the invite to move on. o thats right, you also do not have the say on who gets to write on this forum. looks like a lose lose day for you , first what God says and now who gets to write on the thread. hmmm your right no wonder so many question and strife with it all! :dance:

define "true believer" please. :love3::dance:

and dancing disagreeing isnt insulting. HI ginger tea.

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pond you should really read your own posts

and perhaps the scriptures also

God gives us the HOPE of Christ returning for our comfort.

this is not in the scriptures

please document it, since this is your claim

you have not shown any sciptures at all

i have quoted a few

it is an insult to say that someone will burn to ashes

this is not what the scriptures teach

these are doctrines of men

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chapter and verse concerning buring to ashes are cited on the previous page

HELLO maybe you should read the posts.

ephesians 1:18

the kingdom matt 423 9:35 Dan 7:14 Acts 28,23

50 times in matthew 15 in mark 39 in luke 4 in john.

titus 1,1 2.

just a few dancing.. to educate somone like you who has no scripture references at all would be far to time consuming for me, in this media.

I again refer you to the book

"the christian Hope the anchor of the soul by

John W. Schoenheit.

he does a wonderful work explaining scripture piece by piece concerning w the HOPE also Is there DEATH after LIFE by Mark Graeser John LYNN and John S. a very very comphrehensive look at the bible verses that DETAIL exactly what will happen to believers OT and unbelievers in the future.

john 8,44

GOD said you will die satan said you will not

Genesis 2 16,17.

concerning the hope exactly

JOHN 14,2,3

1 thessalonians 219

1 thessalonians 4,16,17

titus 2:13

2 timothy 4:8

and these are only just a few the bible is a BIG book should we continue?

on page one of the thread is chapter and verse about the burning .

the bible is a massive understanding of who God is and how he Rules tiny little snipe quotes are for men who think as a fool, a deep understanding of how the bible works as a legacy and our future hope takes real study and time, I recomend it for anyone who Loves God and people.

I have given two entire posts filled with CHAPTER AND VERSE, excuse me I seemed to have missed even one of your references from the bible, can you give me directions on to where that may be?

do not accuse me of not having scripture Lord knows Im the scripture QUEEN,lololol and you on the other hand have nothing but what you think and accusations and bullying friends asking me to leave the thread.

hello malachi 4:1 in case your to lazy to look for yourself and just spew what you think again, i said this back on page one amoung others.

Edited by pond
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I see the problem as this

NO one can gain eternal life except through Jesus Christ

The prevailing theory in the Hellfire and Damnation group is that that means that you have to accept Jesus Christ as your saviour here on this earth or you can't be saved

In short, THEY have limited the scope of what Jesus Christ can do in the hereafter

THEY, have announced to Jesus that "You can't speak up for anyone to God your father unless he professed you while here on earth"

How presumptuous

Jesus doesnt need THEIR permission he has God's permission

Jesus doesn't need THEIR rules he has God's rules

Jesus can and will stand and speak for who ever HE chooses to--as the reader and try-er of hearts--HE is the advocate for all men not just those who adhere to some narrow sectarian view

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I do not know what you consider their rules temple lady.

but the bible is very clear on who will attain life everlasting and just how and some will not be in the third heaven and earth .

Jesus christ does not change what God has ordained God has a clear plan and Jesus Christ and will not disobey God. it is clearly written how the end times and the Kingdom will be and Jesus Honors the Father always.

the King of Kings will reign only 1000 years then he to will hand it all over to the father for once and all. To get to the point when we will live as God wants us to live punishment and rewards and deaths many many things will happen. it is all written and Jesus as OUR King, (not Gods) who will make it all happen for God.

He can make no exception or respects no certain person or circumstance.

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Jesus christ does not change what God has ordained God has a clear plan and Jesus Christ and will not disobey God.

That's right God's clear plan is that whoever Christ claims as his own will be "saved"

You are trying to dictate to Christ who HE can claim as his own

That is where the problem lies

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Jesus will give a choice . He does NOT "Take" anything he is not a thief nor does he over ride the will of God or the terms and conditions already written .

Jesus did not design man nor did he plan the redemption of man God. did.

Jesus asked for another way in prayer in the garden and God told HIM no he must die and be resureccted Jesus OBEYED and now all knees will bow to HIM.

Vengenence does belong to the LOrd, praise God.

that in and of itself speaks volumes about how it will be.

some can and will deny the lord, Jesus is KING and do ya think that will fly in the third heaven and earth? ALL knees will bow. one way or another.

Jesus christ does not FORCE anyone to worship HIM as the king of King, He already is appointed by God almighty. those who do not wish to concede the declaration will face the other choice given.

Because Jesus Christ loves us so very much every chance will be given to chose the winning camp. but not all will.

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YOU betcha I think I can be baptized for the dead Allen

But it is much more than that

LDS understand that God is the final judge of hearts

Hypothetical example

there is a man who is an Amazonian Native

He lives deep in the jungles of Brazil

He has never seen a non native

maybe a glimpse of a neighboring tribe

but his worlds is fifty square miles of forest and 10 miles of river

This man is a good hunter and provider for his family

they are well clothed they have a good house

they are well fed

his children are loved as is his wife

he is kind and gentle

he feeds the widow next door

he helps the young men in the village hone their hunting skills

he is honest

he is fair

others come to him for advice or to settle problems

he is compassionate

he shares what he has with those in need

he helps others

Your theology , and at one time mine, says this man will go to Hell because he never heard about Jesus Christ, never mind that he never saw a missionary, never mind that he has no way to ever obtain bible. And even if one should happen to find its way to him, he couldn't read it. But he is going to Hell because Jesus can't stand up for him before God because he never "Confessed Jesus Christ is Lord"

This is why I am LDS

This is why I converted

I finally found a Christian Church

that understands that Jesus Christ is the determiner of who Jesus Christ will speak up for in front of God

Not me , not catholicism dogma,. not TWI, not christianity in all its sects, not Judaism, not Buddhism, But Jesus Christ period.

All come to the father through Jesus Christ

That means that all who come to the father come because Jesus Christ speaks up for them

It DOES NOT mean that Jesus Christ can ONLY speak for those that some man made dogma deems acceptable

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I suspect those who teach hell and brimstone and eternal damnation are those who are most in need of salvation. In other words, those who condemn themselves the most. They judge others, decide for God that others will go to hell for not "following the rules", because it is one of the few ways they can feel good about themselves. Pat themselves on the back and say, "yeah, but at least I'm going to heaven." Either that, or they are extremely bitter and can only console themselves by deciding others will burn in hell for eternity.

Personally, I don't have the time or energy to spend time thinking about what God might have in store for others. I'm too busy living my life, taking care of my family, and doing those things I believe I need to do or have been led to do.

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I cant say I have heard alot of hell and brimstone speeches or sermons.

I hear tell it goes in the south in the pentacostal churches.

the bible clearly decides it is Jesus who decides who will burn and who will not.

I have heard it preach that jesus will indeed fullfill all of the prophecy written and with emotion. I think it is a wonderful happening that mankind wants and needs to fullfill their very purpose in life.

I do not think it is always one of condemation I think at this point it is a point of concern. God tells us in scripture to tell others of His plan of mankind destiny and choices.

christians want all to be saved as does God. The motive is not one of hurting anyone or making their own self feel better but rather a sense of obligation to preach what is truth. it is important news to many.

When Billy Grahm calls those who want to chose Jesus down to the place and all those people are waiting to help them find the LORD and be released from a life of fear and death and no hope for the greatness we are promised.

I feel such JOY and happiness knowing another soul will be with us in the KINGDOM> and satan will lose the ability to rob God of His loved child.

the motive is not condemation it is truly love for mankind.

abigail no one decided what the future will hold it is bible principle and truth that is the standard.

As a christian I do not threaten people with death everyone knows we all will die, what I hold forth as truth is a life everlasting in all eternity with a God who is love and a Lord who is fixing it up just fine. it is a glorious hope one worth living for.

many are searching and claiming this truth and bring others into the thought that God loves us so much we can and will live forever with HIM in a good and peaceful earth once again.

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looking forward to that great fire and shed the rest of this sh!t.

pardon the interruption Bramble....

those who experience the change before they 'die'

to die before we die, twice it will happen

surely there is some special thing for them who now are doing it

cause believe it or not this new heaven and earth

has been seen and experienced by some already

but least is the greatest and the last shall be first

sure we should live as best we can

it's built in us to do it

unfortunately there are other things built in

so for these things to change it will take

one hell of a fire

light up and live and die and live

the beginning of the end of the beginning

peace out pond

and may it go well with you

:spy:

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When Billy Grahm calls those who want to chose Jesus down to the place and all those people are waiting to help them find the LORD and be released from a life of fear and death and no hope for the greatness we are promised

And those who have no "BIlly Graham", Who nver meet a christian, see a tv, hear a radio, read a bible

It is hard for us in our technological free society to realize just how many people in the world are still in this position

So what awaits them?

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"christians want all to be saved as does God. The motive is not one of hurting anyone or making their own self feel better but rather a sense of obligation to preach what is truth."

Yes, and I am sure the Muslim's feel the same way about their religion. So, how do you know they aren't the ones that are right, how do you know it isn't you who is wrong?

Edited by Abigail
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Since when have I 'decreed' someone like that will go to hell Mo ?? I don't think even twi taught that, but rather that someone like the example you've given will be 'resurrected' and 'judged' with Gods' wisdom as to how they lived their life.

The Israelites 'died' without ever 'knowing Jesus' either. Differn't judgement Mo, differn't ressurection, differn't rewards.

But 'baptism for the dead' ?? I don't think so.

"And as it is appointed men once to die, but after this the judgement" Hebrews 9:27

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aaawww Abi, now you are usually the one to hold me back...lol

rock on though of course

anyone ever wonder what the bread is when the 'devil' 'tempted Jesus?

it's used twice there you know

also what was the stone that was supposed to be turned to bread?

the stone makes me think of many things

off topic again yeah....

anyways what child will these going to burn to ashes people tell?

who's life will one ruin and hurt with these doctrines?

hearts are tender and few can handle one

Edited by dancing
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