7 and 7

[cman]

were we ever taught these things?

Pride is excessive belief in one's own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity.

Envy is the desire for others' traits, status, abilities, or situation.

Gluttony is an inordinate desire to consume more than that which one requires.

Lust is an inordinate craving for the pleasures of the body.

Anger is manifested in the individual who spurns love and opts instead for fury. It is also known as Wrath.

Greed is the desire for material wealth or gain, ignoring the realm of the spiritual. It is also called Avarice or Covetousness.

Sloth is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work.

Trust (Trust, opposes lying.)—

Trust.

Chastity (purity, opposes lust, ) —

Courage and boldness. Embracing of moral wholesomeness and achieving purity of thought through education and betterment.

Abstinence (self-control, opposes gluttony, ) —

Constant mindfulness of others and one's surroundings; practicing self-control, abstention, and moderation.

Liberality (will, generosity, opposes greed, ) —

Generosity. Willingness to give. A nobility of thought or actions.

Diligence (ethics, opposes sloth, ) —

A zealous and careful nature in one's actions and work. Decisive work ethic. Budgeting one's time; monitoring one's own activities to guard against laziness.

Patience (peace, opposes wrath, ) —

Forbearance and endurance through moderation. Resolving conflicts peacefully, as opposed to resorting to violence. The ability to forgive; to show mercy to sinners.

Kindness (satisfaction, opposes envy, ) —

Charity, compassion, friendship, and sympathy without prejudice and for its own sake.

Humility (modesty, opposes pride, ) —

Modest behavior, selflessness, and the giving of respect. Giving credit where credit is due; not unfairly glorifying one's own self.

Edited December 8, 2006 by cman

[sirguessalot]

odd, huh?

something interested to add...

up until recently, how almost all judeo-christian (and even some islamic) monastic and more deeply spiritual traditions had a range of 9 sins/manifestations

and the 2 that have been removed in recent centuries are 6 and 3

which, according to many enneagram and post-modern psyche studies...make up about 3/4 of american population

which implies...that the 2 sins we commit the most

are also absent from your list, bro

odd, huh?

which is perhaps the most common spiritual map in our judeo-christian cultures and beliefs

in other words, our deepest problems are not even on our list of possibilities any more

do the math, i guess

which is perhaps a large part of why we are polarized between celebrating military emergencies (fear is the 6th sin missing)

and adoring politicians and rock stars (deceit is the 3rd sin missing)

btw...a light confession to this church:

avarice is my sin of choice (though i am pretty much a minimalist and post-materialist by modern standards...i hoard other things...and a strike is a strike is a strike)

though i like to dabble in gluttony and envy at times (my partying side, as well as all my needs for artistic drama...yawn)

lol

and its not like we celebrate our sins

but that we celebrate finally knowing them enough to name them

and then start combing out the knots

so that they become gifts

...redeemed and such

anyway...

food for thought

btw...enneagram is pronounced any-a-gram

which means "faces of God'

literally shows up in the histories and texts and literature of most all races of history

though i find it always helps to remember how the map is never the same as the territory it describes

which helps keep us from favoring dead paper over the present living book

Edited December 8, 2006 by sirguessalot

[cman]

thanks sirguessalot

i was hoping you would chime in

it seems to me that it's not a box to live in

but an ever widening circle to expand the abilities that god works in us

and to recognize not so much the map but the directions

and not so much the directions but an unlimited map

that begins to clear if we turn certain ways and look

and then most anyway we turn begins to be seen as light coming out of darkness

Edited December 8, 2006 by cman

[GarthP2000]

... equals 14.

[Sushi]

I thought the title of the thread referred to yet another drink preferred by the old Vickster, Scotch and Seven Up. But, I understand his chosen poison was Drambuie, therefore I was confused.

[DrtyDzn]

Actually it equals 7. Seven coins lieing either heads or tails. Flipped by crcumstance.

You can't have half a coin. How would you know one without the other? The crux of the knowledge of good and evil. Maybe the snake was right, we became like gods.

Jerry

[cman]

Actually it equals 7. Seven coins lieing either heads or tails. Flipped by crcumstance.

You can't have half a coin. How would you know one without the other? The crux of the knowledge of good and evil. Maybe the snake was right, we became like gods.

Jerry

Ha! good point Jerry and right on the 'money' too.

so fear and deceit missing

yeah, what a time we had with those in the ole twi huh

had it all friggin bass ackwards

positive and negative believing bullcrap

fear is fear

love is love

love beats fear everytime

tipping the scales

and deceit

had my fill of that, how bout you guys

honesty, honest in all our affairs and speech

and i know love is not understood by some

and not seen, but it's there

and i can still ####ing cuss like a sailor too

lol....:)

Edited December 9, 2006 by cman

[cman]

Perhaps those are round coins like balls there Jerry.

You know as you turn em you can see the darkness and the light.

Like 9 planets and the Sun right in the middle.

All of this in the mind of a person which is somewhat round.

The universe is but a reflection of ourselves.

What we see is seen in the mind and experienced in all of are parts.

Body soul mind and spirit.

So we can't be to hard on our selves but continue to improve.

hmmm the Sun a ball of fire.

The Flaming Sword that keeps the way of the Tree of Life.

Can we see this perspective?

[DrtyDzn]

The solar system as a model for man. Seems like you'ld have a lot more than 9 planrts. And just what is it in man that has no dark side?

Jerry

[cman]

Certainly more then 9 planets.

And not saying there isn't darkness.

Doesn't that book (bible) say that light shined out of darkness?

For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us

I believe that it's not a model so much as an actual autobiography of the heart.

It being Genesis and much more.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead

Edited December 10, 2006 by cman

[lindyhopper]

As long as we are making space analogies...

In the darkness of space there is light everywhere. If you were to measure a point in space where there seemed to be no light at all, there would infact be light coming from every direction.

So in that analogy we would say that light is light and what appears to be darkness is light as well....even in the shadows.

[markomalley]

Oh, btw, as a point of clarification: There are no longer 9 planets; only 8.

Pluto behaved poorly and was given a stiff reprimand and a demotion by the International Astronomical Union.

Hope this doesn't destroy anybody's theology!

[dmiller]

Oh, btw, as a point of clarification: There are no longer 9 planets; only 8.

Pluto behaved poorly and was given a stiff reprimand and a demotion by the International Astronomical Union.

Hope this doesn't destroy anybody's theology!

Sighhhhhhh!! Even celestial bodies get M & A'd. :(

;)

Edited December 11, 2006 by dmiller

[cman]

You haven't destroyed any thing Mark.

Neither have these few people who seem to be playing God.

There is a God and I ain't it.

He is the one who I will give myself to.

Not science or even religion.

Though these things play a role in my life.

I think I'll just let God show me the way and quit trying to do it myself.

[def59]

Isn't the answer 14?

[Belle]

Nope - 42.

42

[def59]

Belle

I think if you have too many 7 and 7s you could get that answer.

Another answer could be .500 (a team's record after 14 games)

[cman]

or 7 times 7

but it's actually 9 so,

the point of the thread seems lost anyway............ maybe

[def59]

not lost

just a hiatus until Feb. 4 when it will be all new posts and no repeats.

[def59]

See now, you've all had time to get back to the original Island, while kept Henry alive on the other island.

Kate, don't come back for me.