Hi Juan, thanks for the information. Yes, there are some real Biblical scholars out there. They earned the respect, based on education and output. They didn't demand respect, based on a story of being called as God's right-hand MOG.
I must admit, though, I still have trouble with the "Jesus became sin, and God couldn't stand sin" explanation of Eli, Eli.
Perhaps I will just have to hold that one "in abeyance." ;)
Meanwhile, be sure to read "CES in a Crisis/Read the Facts First, the Documents." Nothing new, just another cult that developed weird side doctrines and enjoyed meddling in people's lives.
Yes – a real Bible scholar – that's pretty cool, Juan – getting to talk with Metzger. I have The New Oxford Annotated Bible NRSV edited by Bruce M. Metzger and Roland E. Murphy…Here's a couple of excerpts from the "To the Reader" by Metzger at the front of the Bible:
…Because no translation of the Bible is perfect or is acceptable to all groups of readers, and because discoveries of older manuscripts and further investigation of linguistic features of the text continue to become available, renderings of the Bible have proliferated…[page x]
…In traditional Judaism and Christianity, the Bible has been more than a historical document to be preserved or a classic of literature to be cherished and admired; it is recognized as the unique record of God's dealings with people over the ages. The Old Testament sets forth the call of a special people to enter into covenant relation with the God of justice and steadfast love and to bring God's law to the nations. The New Testament records the life and work of Jesus Christ, the one in whom "the Word became flesh," as well as describes the rise and spread of the early Christian Church. The Bible carries its full message, not to those who regard it simply as a noble literary heritage of the past or who wish to use it to enhance political purposes and advance otherwise desirable goals, but to all persons and communities who read it so that they may discern and understand what God is saying to them. That message must not be disguised in phrases that are no longer clear, or hidden under words that have changed or lost their meaning; it must be presented in language that is direct and plain and meaningful to people today…[page xiii]
How nice to hear from one of my favorite people in the world.
I think of you whenever I see family members playing a certain game.
The most accepted interpretation of ELi Eli is that it's a human cry of genuine dereliction (no sin in that)
and that the author expects the reader to recall the entire psalm (22) with its conclusory affirmation of GOd's presence and promised deliverance.
[if people could just read John Dominic Crossen or Marcus Borg with an open mind we wouldn't have some of these issues.]
In multiple places where Jesus is quoted as using Hebrew scripture it seems as though the unquoted context is important; not by intentional omission but perhaps by intended extension and inclusion... as though the quote were shorthand for an entire source pericope.
I haven't worked the gospels in a while - been studying the Hebrew scriptures - esp. Robert Alter's seminal translation/commentary, The Five Books of Moses.
My Bible Study class this winter seem very satisfied and happy to go verse by verse through the Deuteronomic Histories. I tell them, "Ya know some of these stores are pretty obscure. Don't cha just wanna go over the highlights?" "NO"
Oh, I can still hear Victor Paul sometimes in some of the stories "'What meaneth this bleating of sheep in mine years?' Aw pepul isn't that just great?" I think I can hear him giggling as he teaches this wierd story. He never even raises the question of whether God would actually order a slaughter including women and children... typical fundamentalist ingnorance... I mean US - not him! He, at least, was making money (as well as sexually exploiting members of his flock).
Thanks for the reply and quote. That man could write.
Legend has it that Metzger knew the Koine Greek word for "Squirrel."
He taught a class on Revelations and I think it may have been filmed. I would think that sincere students of scripture would be fascinated. Actually, Kerygma.com has excellent study materials for a 5-7 session course on Revelations as well.
Why not get off the "Adminstrations' boon-doggle and start to understand what 'John the Revelator' was really about? He was a poet par excellence.
I met Dr. Metzger once on a plane coming back from teaching a class at Emporia. we talked for a good 2 hours and for years afterwards we corresponded a couple times a year. I'd like to say we were friends however I looked at him with the deepest of awe and as more of a mentor and he thought of me as a young friend. I knew never to approach him on a topic where without an extreme amount of backup I would get my proverbial butt kicked. I guess this is how we stayed friends. Plus I didn't want to know if he knew the greek for Butt hole
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shazdancer
Hi Juan, thanks for the information. Yes, there are some real Biblical scholars out there. They earned the respect, based on education and output. They didn't demand respect, based on a story of being called as God's right-hand MOG.
I must admit, though, I still have trouble with the "Jesus became sin, and God couldn't stand sin" explanation of Eli, Eli.
Perhaps I will just have to hold that one "in abeyance." ;)
Meanwhile, be sure to read "CES in a Crisis/Read the Facts First, the Documents." Nothing new, just another cult that developed weird side doctrines and enjoyed meddling in people's lives.
Take care,
The other drive-by poster, Shaz
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T-Bone
Yes – a real Bible scholar – that's pretty cool, Juan – getting to talk with Metzger. I have The New Oxford Annotated Bible NRSV edited by Bruce M. Metzger and Roland E. Murphy…Here's a couple of excerpts from the "To the Reader" by Metzger at the front of the Bible:
…Because no translation of the Bible is perfect or is acceptable to all groups of readers, and because discoveries of older manuscripts and further investigation of linguistic features of the text continue to become available, renderings of the Bible have proliferated…[page x]
…In traditional Judaism and Christianity, the Bible has been more than a historical document to be preserved or a classic of literature to be cherished and admired; it is recognized as the unique record of God's dealings with people over the ages. The Old Testament sets forth the call of a special people to enter into covenant relation with the God of justice and steadfast love and to bring God's law to the nations. The New Testament records the life and work of Jesus Christ, the one in whom "the Word became flesh," as well as describes the rise and spread of the early Christian Church. The Bible carries its full message, not to those who regard it simply as a noble literary heritage of the past or who wish to use it to enhance political purposes and advance otherwise desirable goals, but to all persons and communities who read it so that they may discern and understand what God is saying to them. That message must not be disguised in phrases that are no longer clear, or hidden under words that have changed or lost their meaning; it must be presented in language that is direct and plain and meaningful to people today…[page xiii]
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Juan Cruz
Hi Shaz,
How nice to hear from one of my favorite people in the world.
I think of you whenever I see family members playing a certain game.
The most accepted interpretation of ELi Eli is that it's a human cry of genuine dereliction (no sin in that)
and that the author expects the reader to recall the entire psalm (22) with its conclusory affirmation of GOd's presence and promised deliverance.
[if people could just read John Dominic Crossen or Marcus Borg with an open mind we wouldn't have some of these issues.]
In multiple places where Jesus is quoted as using Hebrew scripture it seems as though the unquoted context is important; not by intentional omission but perhaps by intended extension and inclusion... as though the quote were shorthand for an entire source pericope.
I haven't worked the gospels in a while - been studying the Hebrew scriptures - esp. Robert Alter's seminal translation/commentary, The Five Books of Moses.
My Bible Study class this winter seem very satisfied and happy to go verse by verse through the Deuteronomic Histories. I tell them, "Ya know some of these stores are pretty obscure. Don't cha just wanna go over the highlights?" "NO"
Oh, I can still hear Victor Paul sometimes in some of the stories "'What meaneth this bleating of sheep in mine years?' Aw pepul isn't that just great?" I think I can hear him giggling as he teaches this wierd story. He never even raises the question of whether God would actually order a slaughter including women and children... typical fundamentalist ingnorance... I mean US - not him! He, at least, was making money (as well as sexually exploiting members of his flock).
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Juan Cruz
T-Bone,
Thanks for the reply and quote. That man could write.
Legend has it that Metzger knew the Koine Greek word for "Squirrel."
He taught a class on Revelations and I think it may have been filmed. I would think that sincere students of scripture would be fascinated. Actually, Kerygma.com has excellent study materials for a 5-7 session course on Revelations as well.
Why not get off the "Adminstrations' boon-doggle and start to understand what 'John the Revelator' was really about? He was a poet par excellence.
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Out There
I met Dr. Metzger once on a plane coming back from teaching a class at Emporia. we talked for a good 2 hours and for years afterwards we corresponded a couple times a year. I'd like to say we were friends however I looked at him with the deepest of awe and as more of a mentor and he thought of me as a young friend. I knew never to approach him on a topic where without an extreme amount of backup I would get my proverbial butt kicked. I guess this is how we stayed friends. Plus I didn't want to know if he knew the greek for Butt hole
I will miss him
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Juan Cruz
Out There,
roflm proktos o!
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