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Everything posted by T-Bone

  1. you go into edit mode - top right and click on 3 dots - you'll have options to report a post share a post - shows link to copy edit post - I think you have something like 10 hours or so from when you first posted it - after that you can't edit it. in edit mode click on the quote you want to delete - or click on near the corner of it - when you see a little box with arrows - you should be able to click on that box to delete. you can play around with Grease Spot tools on the testing forum - here's one of mine here - I believe you have to be signed in to use that forum - great for getting use to doing things on Grease Spot
  2. I still haven’t heard from anyone who has taken PFAL Today. So, I brought my list forward (from here ) and added a few more items…To whom is this post written? Anyone who has taken PFAL today. Please let me know if the following topics are still taught in PFAL Today and if they have added any new details – like wierwille’s sources or phenomena…so…are the following items still covered in the new class: 4 crucified The Bible interprets itself To whom the Bible is written The 7 administrations The law of believing The law of giving and receiving does that little boy still get killed by the fear in the heart of his mother? Receive, retain, release “For this purpose, was I spared” The day Jesus Christ died Who is The Word in John 1:1 The Bible is mathematically exact and scientifically precise Humankind were originally body, soul, and spirit People can get born again of the wrong seed The way to get back to the original God-breathed Word is by comparing translations and versions As long as one loves God and neighbor they can do as they full well please Technically all the women in the kingdom belong to the king Each believer can operate all 9 manifestations To receive anything from God you must know the 5 things - know what’s available, know how to receive it , etc. you can’t go beyond what you’re taught God can only speak to what He is God can only give what He is There’s only one way to rightly divide the Word - all other ways are wrong Do you still have to hold all questions until the last session? Do they specifically mention - by name - where wierwille got most of his material from? Does the new class refer to the 1942 promise made to wierwille? Does the class mention wierwille’s trip to India and healing a local man’s arm? Does the class cover the mechanics of speech to teach how to speak in tongues? Does the class still claim speaking in tongues can’t be counterfeited? ~ ~ ~ ~ If I think of more, I’ll add on later Thank you in advance for reading this and giving it your honest attention
  3. Wow Waysider – that never occurred to me !!!! I think you’ve got reason # 115 of why PFAL sucks…and I’ll cover your stretched coffee tab. 115. Contradictory ideas in PFAL go unnoticed due to the compartmentalization factor of the “PFAL-mindset”. In a PFAL session wierwille taught the Old Testament was not written to us – from which one can logically surmise the laws, promises, directives, and even the tithing system are not applicable to us. Yet in a class collateral, wierwille pivots by saying something along the lines of us taking advantage of the age of grace so God will do even more for us. See also Compartmentalization (psychology) - Wikipedia , Compartmentalization | Psychology Today
  4. Yeah, I’m aware of that…I also know a charitable organization - and it varies - according to federal and state laws can be defined as a nonprofit organization that seeks to advance some public benefit – in a broad range of areas such as education, poverty alleviation, scientific research, environment, diversity, religion, and health…I guess on paper it looks like TWI is a charitable organization…just like Scientology...I just think TWI is not interested in advancing any public benefit - just filling their own pockets.
  5. 114. PFAL is part of an elaborate mooching system I was involved with the Way International for 12 years – that includes participation in the WOW missionary program and the way corps leadership training program. Now when I reflect on the operational ethics of TWI, I realize there was more of a concern over getting as much money as we could out of people’s wallets rather than how we obtained it. As leaders we were to promote this idea of spiritual reciprocity - the law of giving and receiving…the practice of exchanging things with others for mutual benefit. We encourage people to give to the ministry so there is a free-flowing interchange of financial / physical blessings and spiritual blessings. We stipulated there was a minimum required donation to take PFAL – “donation” as if it were an act of charity. One of the collaterals with the materials of the PFAL was Christians Should Be Prosperous. In it wierwille pushes the idea we should give above the 10% tithe. The tithing system described in the Bible was designed specifically to meet the needs of the religious, economic and political system of ancient Israel. wierwille’s argument was that as Christians, no longer under the law of the Old Testament, we should go above the tithe and thereby reap even greater blessings than Old Testament believers – his text to support that claim was Malachi 3:10 “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it”. .. If wierwille's claims were true – then followers of TWI giving more than 10% should have been the healthiest and wealthiest people around bar none...but alas such was not the case…and to be honest – – if people are motivated to be recompensed for giving – then it’s not really giving…it’s trading…it’s giving to get something in return. In the years leading up to going in the way corps, as I got more and more involved with the ministry, I often found myself envious of other Way-believers who were not as committed as I was. They seemed to have it all – families that actually took fun vacations, nice cars, nice homes, and good jobs. I was oblivious to certain values like dedication to family, being financially wise and responsible, reaping the fruits of one’s own labor and finding a sense of fulfilment in a career. I did not realize how detrimental it was to have everything about my life in orbit around The Way Ministry. I didn't think of myself as a materialistic person – but it's hard not to get caught up in it when you work for a money-grubbing ministry that is big on the prosperity doctrine. ...and we were all considered a soft-sell sales force anyway, peddling classes on the Bible in a warm market – friends, relatives, neighbors, work associates, etc. I was a reluctant salesman – partly because I wasn't completely sold on it myself. It's difficult to be enthused about promoting the more than abundant life as defined by TWI when all too often my wife and I were just barely getting by ourselves - working our secular jobs, faithfully giving more than 10 percent of our income – sometimes that even meant skimping on cost-of-living expenses. And besides that, we were also sponsoring people in the way corps program, running fellowships, classes, advances, coffee houses, and getting around town by driving clunkers (vehicles in bad condition because we were usually too financially strapped to do something about it) ...you name it – we did it – and without the financial support of TWI. TWI charged for their classes – but these were not live teachings – all classes were on audio or video cassette (the PFAL class for instance was recorded in 1967). TWI spread their skewed doctrine on the cheap. There's the folks who got people signed up for classes (sometimes even providing rides to new students to ensure their attendance), there's usually a crew to handle setup, classes are usually run in someone's home or apartment, some folks provided refreshments and coffee for breaks (long classes like PFAL were over 36 hours) were typically run at nights and/or weekends, and someone loaned their own audio or video equipment to play the class cassettes – none of that was ever covered by TWI. Number 114 of why PFAL sucks – it’s an “introductory offer” to be a part of an elaborate mooching system.
  6. Thanks for sharing your story, Charity! I love your honesty, clarity, and courage.
  7. For those following along at home, note Mike’s convergent techniques of dishonesty so he appears to agree and disagree at the same time. Mike uses many elements of deception…among the most significant are: 1. Mike throws in the term “mnemonic” a learning technique that aids information retention or retrieval (remembering) in the human memory for better understanding. Self-referential encoding is a method of organizing information in one's memory in which one interprets incoming information in relation to oneself, using one's self-concept as a background…by itself the technique is not troublesome – but combining fact with fiction yet being unable to differentiate between the two, makes for a very problematic form of memory organization…see also Self-referential encoding - Wikipedia and Encoding Definition (Psychology) And Its Role In Memory | BetterHelp. 2. Mike leans heavily on confirmation bias. He has a tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms and supports his beliefs and values of wierwille/PFAL is the gold standard. He often reveals his favoritism by selecting information that supports his views, ignoring contrary information, or when he interprets ambiguous evidence as supporting his current attitudes. See also Confirmation bias - Wikipedia …we all tend to have confirmation bias to some degree - but it can be better managed by developing critical thinking skills. 3. Mike has a habit of reading into a Bible text – and even PFAL material. It’s his way of explaining something in order to introduce his own presuppositions, agendas or biases. It is commonly referred to as reading into the text. It is often done to "prove" a pre-held point of concern, and to provide confirmation bias corresponding with the pre-held interpretation and any agendas supported by it. see also Eisegesis - Wikipedia 4. I consider Mike a master at double-speak. He likes to redefine a term – which is, of course, to assign it a new meaning. Redefinition is a sub fallacy of equivocation. Double-talk is a form of speech in which inappropriate, invented, or nonsense words are interpolated into normal speech to give the appearance of knowledge and to confuse or mislead the listener/reader. see also Double-talk - Wikipedia , Equivocation - Wikipedia and Taxonomy vs Equivocation - What's the difference? | WikiDiff
  8. = == = = = = I’ll tell you what – if I had a dollar for every time I fell asleep reading Christians Should Be Prosperous, I would buy you a bionic arm replacement so you could play death metal while you’re in-residence again
  9. Wow wee wow – see how fast we can get a class together when our heads are in the wrong kind of spazzed out. Which reminds me – after students regurgitate graduate and we run the follow-up session on the unforgiveable sin/wrong seed – let’s do it as an all-nighter and include the Omen quintet (not the jazz band but the horror film franchise )
  10. Thanks So_crates! I've never heard that tune. I love her deep voice...don't have anything of hers...I'm going to have to get an album of hers
  11. alright! a round of stretched coffee for everyone - Waysider is buying!
  12. Please hold all your questions until the end of this thread If your questions are not answered by then you can sit (or SIT) through this whole thread again free of charge
  13. PFAL 1967 - PFAL 77 - PFAL Today = same bull-Shonta, different days
  14. That’s like Yogi Berra taking the PFAL class all over again
  15. say - this would fit right in on the NT canon thread with so-and-so's "literary structure" debacle abbadabbadoo
  16. That reminds me…the other day I saw my wife in the kitchen praying in the Holy Ghost, but I couldn't see the Holy Ghost. * *Similar to the TWI ploy of answering a question with a question – countering Groucho with Groucho
  17. 112. wierwille misleadingly teaches what he thinks is true worship In The New Dynamic Church, chapter 7, What is True Worship? Pages 81ff, wierwille starts off by quoting from John 4: 22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. ~ ~ ~ ~ In a previous post I quoted wierwille saying “The holy spirit field – that’s the field God raised me up for. There’s not a question that cannot be answered biblically. And there’s no one I can’t lead into speaking in tongues if they are Christian and want to do it." I think wierwille was such an arrogant self-described holy spirit expert that he would create an extraneous idea out of a text even if it just mentioned the word “spirit”. He goes on from quoting John 4 to say true worship is speaking in tongues. Students taking PFAL for the first time are unaware of wierwille’s knack for reading into the text. It’s called Eisegesis (/ˌaɪsɪˈdʒiːsɪs/) the process of interpreting text in such a way as to introduce one's own presuppositions, agendas or biases. It is commonly referred to as reading into the text. It is often done to "prove" a pre-held point of concern, and to provide confirmation bias corresponding with the pre-held interpretation and any agendas supported by it. Eisegesis is best understood when contrasted with exegesis. Exegesis is drawing out a text's meaning in accordance with the author's context and discoverable meaning. Eisegesis is when a reader imposes their interpretation of the text. Thus exegesis tends to be objective; and eisegesis, highly subjective. From: Eisegesis - Wikipedia ~ ~ ~ ~ I won’t bore you with mentioning anymore of wierwille’s erroneous babble. Instead, let’s consider the more obvious line of thought Jesus was talking about in John 4. Remember humankind was made in the image and likeness of God. Rather than conforming to some external religious-looking ritual - just going through the motions. Jesus was telling us to worship God with that part of us that is like Him – the supernatural side – and in truth - consistent with what has been revealed in Scripture. Prayer and how we each think of God and relate to God is deeply personal…unique…indescribable…pseudo-Christian cult-leaders like to control followers and dictate what is required for religious service. That’s reason # 112 of why PFAL sucks.
  18. Hey all, I don’t ever mean to drive everyone into a tizzy with stuff I share. I like the freedom we have on a non-religious site - I don’t feel like I have to kowtow to a particular theology. My wife and I differ on our SIT experiences - and we don’t make it or a lot of other topics a dealbreaker. I have a Roman Catholic background and she was raised southern Baptist. Prayer and how we each think of God and relate to God is deeply personal…unique…indescribable. I’m perfectly happy that our top priority is no longer TWI’s agenda but our family!
  19. I’m in category #3 …as a high school class clown I used to have foreign characters in my repertoire sounding like someone from Russia, China , Africa, and New York - NY was easy since I grew up there …but seriously at session 12 I just jumped into my high school foreign student schtick cuz it felt natural to do that - some old habits never die
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