Thank you for posting this. IMO it is no sin to be a victim. I think it takes a lot of heart to recognize that the victimizers are victims too. But accountability is a lot different between folks who were ONLY VICTIMS and those who were victimizers too.
It is MHO that All without exception were victims of the victimizers of TWI, including the victimizers themselves
by the above definitions.
I only include the victimizers as being victims also as I believe that some cause and
effect situation lead up to their choosing to victimize their victims so ruthlessly and unscrupulously. They had
to have deviated to some sociopathic or psychopathic state to cruelly,unmercifully, deceitfully and without
restraint of moral or ethical principles deviously victimize all in their trust as shepherds and overseers of GOD's
flock!
Sometimes when I read threads and posts here I feel as though what being a victim and a victimizer are
perhaps not clarified enough in detail; They are sometimes seen too collectively or not subjectively
enough to show real individual regard and respect to the type or types of abuse individually testified to by the
victims here.
. . . . . .
Just reading over the definitions here will to most corroborate their, the victims testimonies. I am not GOD the
judge so if anyone pours their heart out here for help or healing I will listen and help if I can
and not worry if it is true or not; as NOW they want or need help and love! In the end if they are Bearing False
Wittiness against another they and GOD know it They can read what GOD says against Bearing False Wittiness
in His Word and decide what to do about it on their own. I am not, nor am I qualified, nor meant to be their
accuser or their judge.
Any Accusations without proof; whether seeking truth or not may also fall under Bearing False
Wittiness against thy neighbor. It is a charge I don't want to be on either end of!
All the different forms of abuse and victimization of the TWI victimizers were distinctive with distinctive,
strategies and consequences. Whether it was, mental and verbal ( example insults, threats,twisting the truth to
control and manipulate. isolate, shun by marking and avoiding), physical (examples: sexual abuses,
child abuses, health and personal safety related needs),
spiritual(example polluting and privately interpreting GOD's Word, so confusing and harming the student
as to lead him astray from or entirely away from GOD by deceitfully using GOD's word against individuals with
a designated purpose of protecting the victimized regime, doctrines and ideologies)
I cannot pass judgment upon the real damage or horrendous effects of the victims. I can only hear them out
and comfort or help them The victimizations cannot all be seen or heard!!! We may not ever
understand fully here just how encasing or deep they truly run!!! Everyone feels pain differently and all the
victims have had life altering changes due to their victimizations!
Some victims were multiply abused or harmed in various combinations of abuse. Somewill never testify of their
abuse due to shame or retributions or other factors that keep them bounds up tightly guarded secrets!
[Whatever the reasons, NO One Deserves to be ABUSED or to be REABUSED when they testify
Which is Your view of victims and victimizers
and what is it based on?????![/color]
Wow, how did I miss this post. What a wonderful example of love. I too feel for the victimizers--odd to hear--maybe for some, but they were in fact victims of erroneous doctrine and practice--which allowed such behavior to grow unchecked.
I hope repentance for them--and a ceasing of the perpetual abuse which comes from a rotten foundation--a warped understanding of Jesus and His sacrifice, the fact that we are to love even our enemies--and we are called to live in peace as best we can.
Our first reaction to tales of abuse--compassion. Nothing else works.
Revictimizing a victim----seems to stem from a cold heart. Cold toward Jesus--who died for all. It may also stem from a wounded heart--how do we know? We don't--we can point it out--but it is up to the one revictimizing to see it.
It has to stem from a misunderstanding of just who Jesus is and what he did for all-His heart for all--it couldn't happen if that was firmly in place--not consistently. Certainly not in God's name.
It all makes me pray the more for those in TWI or ever really involved with TWI.
I was reading through here on what is a victim. VPW was a victim of his lust for power and women. But I believe he also new this was wrong. If people brought it out he would lie and ruin their lives. Therefore he always remained a victim to his lusts. Any one that came close to him in leadership had to indulge in his lust or VPW would have been found out. These people were his victims also and they themselves became victimizers.
Any one in or was in TWI is a victim in one form or another some worst than others. But it depends on what we do once we realize this. It takes many different forms but we must rise above it. After leaving the way I studied and learn from many: DL Moody, Geore Whitfield, Billy Sunday,l William Blackberry, Charles Stanley, Chuck Swindol, Roper, and many more. A person is no longer a victim when they can forgive. Is forgiveness going to effect VPW no LCM no it helps to release the victim themselves.
Our first reaction to tales of abuse--compassion. Nothing else works.
Revictimizing a victim----seems to stem from a cold heart. Cold toward Jesus--who died for all. It may also stem from a wounded heart--how do we know? We don't--we can point it out--but it is up to the one revictimizing to see it.
It has to stem from a misunderstanding of just who Jesus is and what he did for all-His heart for all--it couldn't happen if that was firmly in place--not consistently. Certainly not in God's name.
It all makes me pray the more for those in TWI or ever really involved with TWI.
It seems to stem from a cold or wounded heart or maybe even a spiritually blinded heart. It is very difficult to understand being past feeling; and seeking to arouse and reawaken your own feelings by victimizing and wounding someone else. It is all Very selfish and self centered and devilish imho
Eph 4:19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
Green Hornet
I was reading through here on what is a victim. VPW was a victim of his lust for power and women. But I believe he also new this was wrong. If people brought it out he would lie and ruin their lives. Therefore he always remained a victim to his lusts. Any one that came close to him in leadership had to indulge in his lust or VPW would have been found out. These people were his victims also and they themselves became victimizers.
Any one in or was in TWI is a victim in one form or another some worst than others. But it depends on what we do once we realize this. It takes many different forms but we must rise above it. After leaving the way I studied and learn from many: DL Moody, Geore Whitfield, Billy Sunday,l William Blackberry, Charles Stanley, Chuck Swindol, Roper, and many more. A person is no longer a victim when they can forgive. Is forgiveness going to effect VPW no LCM no it helps to release the victim themselves.
Very astute comments Green Hornet they are victims of their own lusts, greediness and selfish egotistical ways; Maliciously, going about wounding and racking and ruining lives at their own will and pleasure. Very warped!!!
"Is Forgiveness going to effect VPW or LCM no it helps to release the victim themselves"
Your right!!! Only GOD knows what His absolute justice pronouncements will be on VPW or LCM; but one thing we do know about GOD is that everything He does is perfect and is perfectly done. We could never exact justice in any manner that covers all aspects of any one man's lifetime to match GOD's ability to do so.
I would hate to be them or anyone who knowingly abuses people in any manner. We think of revenges that people deserve, but GOD when he is finished letting it be "man's day", will make our conceived revenges look probably kind in comparision!!!
excathedra
i haven't read all the defs. but i think a true victimizer is someone who intentionally hurts someone, victimizes someone
VPW's and LCM's actions were very intentional and very premeditated
like, if you told that vic you didn't want to go that way, and he ignored you
and of course used the bible to justify the vic timization
It sure would have been better for them to have faced legal earthly justice here than to go unrepentantly before GOD. because even if they have/had asked GOD for forgiveness before they die/died through they continued on in their actions for years there will be consequences for continuing on repeatitively...having a reprobate mind....comes to my mind.
What is the scripture that applies to asking forgiveness and not really changing??????
i also think victims can be young and damaged which helps them to become victims
Yes and GOD considers that even more evil and treacherous...to wound the wounded or infirmed
and hopefully one day they'll grow up to be a survivor
(((((Excie)))), You and Me and All at GRSC and the other Survivors of TWI, We will help them!!!
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JeffSjo
Dear Rainbowsgirl,
Thank you for posting this. IMO it is no sin to be a victim. I think it takes a lot of heart to recognize that the victimizers are victims too. But accountability is a lot different between folks who were ONLY VICTIMS and those who were victimizers too.
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RainbowsGirl
I agree with You, Jeff!
Isn't it strange that most victimizers know the wrongs they inflict and even know what GOD says they will
receive in recompense for their deeds and they still repeatedly do it!
Can You even imagine what a self justification system they have going! I am glad I am not GOD or any of
them! They must have their consciouses seared!
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geisha779
Wow, how did I miss this post. What a wonderful example of love. I too feel for the victimizers--odd to hear--maybe for some, but they were in fact victims of erroneous doctrine and practice--which allowed such behavior to grow unchecked.
I hope repentance for them--and a ceasing of the perpetual abuse which comes from a rotten foundation--a warped understanding of Jesus and His sacrifice, the fact that we are to love even our enemies--and we are called to live in peace as best we can.
Our first reaction to tales of abuse--compassion. Nothing else works.
Revictimizing a victim----seems to stem from a cold heart. Cold toward Jesus--who died for all. It may also stem from a wounded heart--how do we know? We don't--we can point it out--but it is up to the one revictimizing to see it.
It has to stem from a misunderstanding of just who Jesus is and what he did for all-His heart for all--it couldn't happen if that was firmly in place--not consistently. Certainly not in God's name.
It all makes me pray the more for those in TWI or ever really involved with TWI.
Nice post RG!
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Green Hornet
I was reading through here on what is a victim. VPW was a victim of his lust for power and women. But I believe he also new this was wrong. If people brought it out he would lie and ruin their lives. Therefore he always remained a victim to his lusts. Any one that came close to him in leadership had to indulge in his lust or VPW would have been found out. These people were his victims also and they themselves became victimizers.
Any one in or was in TWI is a victim in one form or another some worst than others. But it depends on what we do once we realize this. It takes many different forms but we must rise above it. After leaving the way I studied and learn from many: DL Moody, Geore Whitfield, Billy Sunday,l William Blackberry, Charles Stanley, Chuck Swindol, Roper, and many more. A person is no longer a victim when they can forgive. Is forgiveness going to effect VPW no LCM no it helps to release the victim themselves.
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excathedra
i haven't read all the defs. but i think a true victimizer is someone who intentionally hurts someone, victimizes someone
like, if you told that vic you didn't want to go that way, and he ignored you
and of course used the bible to justify the vic timization
i also think victims can be young and damaged which helps them to become victims
and hopefully one day they'll grow up to be a survivor
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RainbowsGirl
geisha779
It seems to stem from a cold or wounded heart or maybe even a spiritually blinded heart. It is very difficult to understand being past feeling; and seeking to arouse and reawaken your own feelings by victimizing and wounding someone else. It is all Very selfish and self centered and devilish imho
Eph 4:19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
Green Hornet
Very astute comments Green Hornet they are victims of their own lusts, greediness and selfish egotistical ways; Maliciously, going about wounding and racking and ruining lives at their own will and pleasure. Very warped!!!
"Is Forgiveness going to effect VPW or LCM no it helps to release the victim themselves"
Your right!!! Only GOD knows what His absolute justice pronouncements will be on VPW or LCM; but one thing we do know about GOD is that everything He does is perfect and is perfectly done. We could never exact justice in any manner that covers all aspects of any one man's lifetime to match GOD's ability to do so.
I would hate to be them or anyone who knowingly abuses people in any manner. We think of revenges that people deserve, but GOD when he is finished letting it be "man's day", will make our conceived revenges look probably kind in comparision!!!
excathedra
i haven't read all the defs. but i think a true victimizer is someone who intentionally hurts someone, victimizes someone
VPW's and LCM's actions were very intentional and very premeditated
like, if you told that vic you didn't want to go that way, and he ignored you
and of course used the bible to justify the vic timization
It sure would have been better for them to have faced legal earthly justice here than to go unrepentantly before GOD. because even if they have/had asked GOD for forgiveness before they die/died through they continued on in their actions for years there will be consequences for continuing on repeatitively...having a reprobate mind....comes to my mind.
What is the scripture that applies to asking forgiveness and not really changing??????
i also think victims can be young and damaged which helps them to become victims
Yes and GOD considers that even more evil and treacherous...to wound the wounded or infirmed
and hopefully one day they'll grow up to be a survivor
(((((Excie)))), You and Me and All at GRSC and the other Survivors of TWI, We will help them!!!
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JeffSjo
Dear Excathedra,
VIC TIMIZATION!?
That could be considered funny to me if I didn't know some of your story.
I hope and pray that you are doing well these days.
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