"ministers" -- i don't know where this post belongs

[geisha779]

well, there's a point, jim

jj, you have to realize that many of us have been doing the "work" of a "minister" for years and years

oh gosh, i shouldn't have started this thread

my point(s) is/are not coming across

i'll try to think about it and let you know

--

one thing for certain is that a dear friend of mine (a god-fearing, whatever you call it, lovely human being) was maniputlated by a "minister" and it really p'd me off

not to mention many other things about ministers i don't like

doesn't mean i don't like and/respect some of them, okay?

once one starts saying, one has the corner on the market on helping people, i just can't see it

oh and this one from mstar

Excathedra,

I am GLAD you brought this up. The truth is, many of us may have not even met true ministers. But, seems to me they would have to be servants of God --- humble--wanting to bring glory to God.

"And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant..."

I think maybe we ex-way have seen many people jockey for "Leadership" positions instead of striving to be ministers. Not all of them. . . a few good people spring to mind. . . but, many just pushed us down to raise themselves up within the way structure.

Now, does that actually raise one up or just make them look taller(for a time) standing on the backs of those knocked down?

When anyone does that, TWI or not--it hurts those being stepped on. It should make you angry . . . it is wrong.

It makes me angry and often sad . . . because of these men. . . God takes the hit.

There are men all throughout Christianity who have come in and scattered the flock. They wreak havoc on the people. Hurt them. Jesus warned. . . Paul was worried. . . and it does happen.

Then what happens? God is spoken of badly. . . not glorified.

True ministers seek to glorify God, they guard the flock against these wolves. They are out there--humble and serving.

We are to love our neighbor as ourselves. . . that keeps us pretty busy ministering good things to people, but there is a calling for ministers.

I wouldn't want that calling. . . I am ill prepared for it. . . the responsibility is awesome. That is why people TRAIN for the ministry. Just look at what happens when people are asleep on the job. . . wolves sneak in. . .

I hope your friend knows it is not God who betrayed her. . . or any of us for that matter. . . it was men wearing furry costumes. :)

You have valid reasons for being p'd off! People get hurt. . . we get enough hurt without it coming from those claiming to serve God.

Even so. . . .

God is still good!!

[Oakspear]

I think that our culture has ingrained in us that a "minister" has some kind of special knowledge and abilities and is on some level at least, worthy of respect and deference. Some ministers take advantage of this.

I'm always amazed at how some people treat me differently when I'm in my "reverend" role as a wedding officiant. It's an internet ordination that I got just so I could legally perform weddings, so it's not like I've got any special training or anything, but a lot of people get all deferential when I'm around. Until they really get to know me of course

[excathedra]

humility and love are two of the most important elements in relationships, and all the more so for people in spiritual leadership positions.

People trust you when you have them, and distrust you when you don't (and rightly so). And people recognize pretty quickly whether humility and love are there or not, as least when they see you up close rather than just on stage.

that was a really nice post, jj, and i thank you for how you helped me 9 or 10 years ago

and thank you all for your responses

i'm glad you got me, mark

and geisha thanks so much -- i'll have to think about what you said -- part of it

Edited December 21, 2008 by excathedra