Dealing with Clingons.

[JeffSjo]

Ever notice how manners that you learned cling to you even after you reject those things and try to move on. Sometimes if it seems to apply I call this inability to change as having scars. But if they are not so intense I think of them as mannerisms that clingon to me.

The kind of abuse that I grew up around clung to me to my ex-wife's annoyance, and even though I did not abuse I could sound and act just pretty darn close to an abuser and/or bully sometimes. Maybe the only redeeming thing I can say about this is that I was quick to apologize and changed many things. Sometimes it took time and wasn't easy either even though I knew that I behaved badly. I think that clingons really seem to want to stick sometimes, like velcro or cockleburrs maybe.

In more than one long term relationship in my life I saw somebody never come to honest and open terms with how they used to behave. And they are still ensnared by the same behavior today, but not for lack of me trying to bring it up. I really think that it can even be cruel and/or hateful to let someone sit in a cruel or self destructive behavior. Especially if gossip mixed with distorted rumors comes to be the only way that the public thinks of someone.... in such a case how to help. IMO this is not an easy thing.

Other times I've met people with relationship scars. Sometimes the ones that were abused by sexual dominance games seemed to do the same things just because they were exposed to such things. And I've seen folks who acted that way change their manner when they were confronted with their bad manners. Good for them. There seems to be a difference between bad behavior that can be changed and a deep seated flaw that is ingrained into one's personality. How can one know such things about themselves without feedback!?

Or how about the ones who only know headgames even though they may want to love someone....sigh.

Sometimes a person can decide to change after getting called on a bad pattern even though it is a clingon. But there is a huge difference between a friend saying,"See how you are." and a perceived foe saying, "I see how you are." A trusted loved one who holds my respect seems to be the best one to tell me how I'm behaving, I think.

I've tried at the Greasespot to not spout scriptures according to TWI clingons deliberately. It amazes me that in spite of all the deliberate and maybe anal details in how the scriptures were handled that I could have been so deceived and plain wrong. The details and normal teaching/sharing patterns didn't stop the things that sometimes came out of my mouth from being total b.s. at times. Heck, I think that mindless adhearance to the TWI mannerisms of how to share the scriptures actually have served to strengthen the old errors, as if having a correct manner can make up for the "leaven (of TWI) that leavened the whole lump."

In terms of clingons I must say that I can worry about ex-TWI leadership and those that they influence. Especially as I recognize so many TWI clingons in my former splinter group. Of course the leader's insanities don't help either....Word-in-the flesh....Yeah right! I think that sometimes we've been afflicted by Wierwille's sociopathic manner with many clingons, but then again some are still sociopaths in their own right.

Can anyone else relate?

(edited for spelling and grammar)p.s. Yeah I know now the title should say "Star Trek" instead of "Star Treck", but I cannot seem to change it.

If some kind hearted mod happens to see this, please, can you fix the title.?

Edited April 9, 2009 by JeffSjo

[excathedra]

i think many people were/are "deceived" in one way or another

[JeffSjo]

Dear Excathedra,

I suppose that you are correct. One thing that I really like about the Greasespot is that there are completely open forums to discuss virtually any issue that may aid in helping people recover from their TWI experiences.

I think that the best way for this to happen is to discuss things openly and honestly. That is why I bring up so much of my personal life, someone has to be willing to lay it on the line, so-to-speak.

With clingons it can be as harmless as the classic, "OMG, I sounded just like my dad/mom" or as insidious as, "OMG, I sounded just like my ex-limb leader." But either way I tend to classify behavior learned from being subjected to such things as clingon behavior.

For those bad TWI behaviors I like it best when I see someone who acted without thinking and then realized how and where which TWI leadership they learned the scummy/manipulative behavior from. Anything other reaction tends to fall into the "Wise in our own conceits" category IMO. I think there is a proverb that points out that the hope for salvation is dim for a fool who is wise in their own conceits.

I am most happy to have the opportunities to change.

[Twinky]

Jeff, you are trying hard to overcome a difficult beginning compounded by a difficult adult life. Well done for recognizing where the errors lie!

We all have "relationship scars" and it does take honesty (firstly) to see what effect our behavior has on others; (secondly) to see what has conditioned any particular behavior and (thirdly) to do something about it. Habits can be very hard to break and require constant effort to overcome and to establish a new habit/behavior.

As you say, a word from a friend about some less than lovely behavior is worth much. That's what "speaking the truth in love" is about. It is not about pointing out the ...sawdust... in others' eyes whilst peering through the plank in one's own eyes. And it definitely isn't being picky or overly critical or nagging.

You are a neat and tender-hearted man, and if you can teach your son to say "sorry" promptly you will help him not perpetuate errors - those taught by you, or by his mother (asnd by extension, the splinter group leader). Help him to recognize egregious behavior and to distinguish it from the fake "meekness" peddled by TWI/offshoots.

[JeffSjo]

Thank you for the feedback Twinky, that was pretty cool, or perhaps It would be better said as very nice

I read your post yesterday and since then I've realised that what I try to do is recognize where certsain behaviors come from but still take responsibility myself. But it's not such a neat little picture when a person is still kind of broken up. Thinking about these things can be very tiring sometimes for me.

I'm just hoping that the discussion might be a blessing to someone I guess.

[TheHighWay]

Jeff,

In my experience, you cannot fix what is broken if you don't at least recognize that it IS broken. So, the fact that you even realize something you've said or done is a remnant of your past (bad) lives is HUGE in my book!

Beyond that, I also agree that it is easier to fix if you can understand where the behavior (or thought) came from and why you used it. That's the starting point and if you understand that, you can change things.

Do I still have "clingons"? Oh yeah... I hope I have less today than I had last week, but I doubt I will ever stop rooting out the crap that became the very fabric of my daily life for 20 years.

THW

[JeffSjo]

Dear THW,

It sounds like you think there is still a lot of work to do. I hope things are cool with you in the mean time.

______________________

I hope this thread doesn't strike anyone like some kind of self help project. I think we all need friends, God's grace, and patience to even work on it. And I won't hold anything against those who hold to only friends and patience here at the Greasespot either.

But if this thread strikes anyone as simply pointing out how messed up someone feels, then a (((hug))) may be a better remedy, or a friend whose ears work, or a few deep breaths.

Take Care and God Bless!

(edited for spelling)

Edited April 15, 2009 by JeffSjo