yes, for those that thought it was all about believer burgers and retemory cards, they were mistaken. They saw Barbies dream house but did not know what wicked Uncle Ernie was really doing to a lot of the Barbies.
When Sunny left the corps and took half of them with her-- What was her reason for leaving? Did she see the abuse of sex? Was it the breakdowns and suicides or did she just not like Craig? I never really knew why she left, heard some guesses but nothing solid.
Yeah, you had some guts to tell LCM that, but he melted your face with his athlete's of the spirit breath...
(joke)
I held Mrs. W's hand as she sobbed and sobbed using tissues and not speaking.
She had come into the coach and I was there, fat old VP tried to "Get me" and I left.
I went to see her and tell her, "Look I did not do anything. I do not participate in that stuff....." I told her I knew what she was going through and I understood.... etc. held her hand.
She did not speak, but we had an understanding after that. I could call her, meet her and we had this silent "thing".
PS
I wrote VP a letter and told him I thought he was being deceived by spirits because of all the antics he was doing, I told him that I thought the BOD was trying to push him out and he needed to clean up his act and push back.... I said a bunch of things to him....
I was probably on the Geer hit list..... Hahaha or they were still waiting for me to kill myself.
Sunny now there is a name I have not heard in a long time. What a great person she was I remember hearing her teach in Wichita in the 70's. I suppose we may never know Dot why? I always heard the same she and Craig always clashed but the reason of their clash was never revealed.
Dot maybe Hope know's something I remembered this post she did and found it in the archives.
But then, I think it was in March, S^nny dared to defy his authority and the whole Corps got dismissed. Seems she had gathered together a small group of Corps who were loyal to her. She didn't like Craig - thought he yelled too much - didn't care for his methods. People who got reamed by him would go to her for comfort - and I think she got sick of it.
Anyway - she left - we all got dismissed - had to write on the back of a 3x5 card whether or not we wanted to come back - if not - we were to pack our bags and leave the next morning. I think about 50 - 60 people left at that point.
it was bad enough to find out about the "harems" of women Schoenheit spoke to me about.... it was even worse to discover my own sister... [delete]
And yes, I remember Sunny's group. I never felt the need to go to all those "women's" meetings she had, but I wish now I had so I would have known what the hell was going on. I do remember when she locked herself in a suite in one of the dorms.... Uncle Harry coming to try to talk to her.... and then she was gone, and the same m.o. with Craig badmouthing the person who was no longer there to defend herself.
Sunny, if you're out there, I'd sure love to hear what you have to say about it all.
OMG I knew that vp had taught about the fathers in Africa or some such place......[cut] omg and because the great vp said it.....almost everybody lapping it up like it is so spiritual.....
[edit]
My God...and people question whether or not that we were brain washed?
Dot you were very brave to go to help Mrs. vp I would have been terrified would have had to skulk around ashamed because even though innocent, I always feel guilty.
Excathedra....again, thank you.
Guys...(((((Ex dot, cat))))) thank you so much for speaking up about this difficult subject. You know that your stories are what finally pried oped my eyes and set me free.
I am so sorry for what you have been through....the horrors that you endured....but here you are turning that into a tool that is helping yet again.
Thank you for having the courage and stamina to continue to discuss this. People have got to KNOW that twi wasn`t what we were led to believe....People have got to KNOW that vp was unworthey of our trust before they can begin to honestly address what we were taught.
You know...I SHOULD probably just back away from the key boards when I am this angry....but jeeemany christmas....that vp taught this was ok and good.....makes my blood boil.
Anybody could figure out there was something wrong in Way World. After reading all of this, I can see there were signs, BIG SIGNS in my own mind even though I was never recruited in to any of the horrible stuff.
I remember one time approaching Howard Allen at the last Word in Business and making a comment about his red boots. His response to me was "I keep them shiney so I can use them to look up the girl's dresses." I wasn't wearing a dress at the time, but it struck me as really odd. He even demonstrated it even though I wasn't wearing a dress. I thought he was kind of a pervert at the time, but I guess I thought he was harmless. He was probably "fishing" to see what kind of response he would get.
It makes me sick. Gawd. It was all in the name of God, and these SICK BASTARD DOGS are doing all of this in front of God. Man, I want to see the day the get repaid for their wrongs.
I really don`t see it as much of a step beyond this to the young women that were molested in twi.... They entering the way corpes or wow field believing that they are there to serve God.....Having learned to trust their ministers as spiritual leaders....having them presented as representatives of a wholesom God and the scriptures......with the blue print of God`s desire for our lives.....claiming to have ALL answers to life and Godliness.....to then being groomed and then required to submit sexually in order to be a dulous....in order to be deemed spiritually mature.....to be drugged when manipulation failed ...and have your protestations to be silenced by threats and coersion.
...and folks are suprised that there were mental break downs and suicides with this kind of pressure????
These leaders were supposed to help us get closer to God.....our hearts desire was to learn how to be the best servant that we could be for God....to dedicate our lives in service to him.......and these people....these wolves TOOK that and they USED that to steal that which they were in no way entitled to, nor would they have ever gotten.
How anyone can see an ounce of wholesomness or Godliness in these criminal perverts is beyond me :(
They USED God and the scriptures to steal kill and destroy pure and simple
Dot, that is awfull.... they were supposed to help us.....how many deeply hurt people are sentanced to struggling through the rest of this life ..... forever changed because of contact with these creeps?
What POSSIBLE good could anybody have recieved to be considered worth the damage that was so casually inflicted on believers?
Not only was damage inflicted in order for the sick lusts to be satisfied..... but active seeking to inflict as much damage as possible for failure to satisfy the requirements....if you dissapointed them...they were gonna mess you up....and they were going to make darned sure that you didn`t let their dirty little secret outta the bag.
It has been a long time since this was at the forefront of any thread, so I'll post it again here:
During PFAL 77 in Muncie, Indiana, I was doing Bless Patrol with another girl near the doors leading from the motor coach into the building. We would open the doors for VP and Howard and escort them to the back stage area as they walked through. I do recall VPW walking in nothing but his bath robe from the coach to the back stage area, and once thrust a bar of Coast soap in my nose, and said, "Here, smell this, ain't it great!"
BTW one of the details that made one girl's rape testimony hit home for me and ring true, was that afterwards, she could no longer stand the smell of anything like Coast bath soap.
He and Howard had come back and forth through the area several times that day and each time we opened the doors for them. Then later on, I began to detect a whiff of alcohol on Howard as he began passing by. The next time he and VPW came by and I opened the door...
Howard grabbed me, laid a sloppy wet french kiss on me, laughed, and said "You've been asking for that all day!"
I still remember the stench and taste of the alcohol as he forced his tongue into my mouth.
He and VPW laughed and continued back stage.
I was embarassed, kind of giggled, and back then chalked it up to Howard having had too much to drink and forgave it.
But I know now it was a hell of a lot more than that.
These people betrayed us ALL...even if we weren`t directly assaulted personally....even though we persanally were not driven to the point of suicide.....maybe not broken beyond repair.....twi leaders were DOING this to OUR innocent brothers and sisters unbeknownst to us with OUR support and living off of OUR contributions...their fresh new recruits supplied by OUR outreach and undershepherding.....we unknowingly led the victims to the slaughter
Their appearance at legitimacy and spiritual Godliness was provided entirely by OUR bible teachings OUR appearance of good character.....OUR integrety....
They hijacked peoples lives and even peoples ministries .... people who simply wanted to make a difference for God in this world.....and maliciously decieved them into promoting and supporting a very evil harmfull group...
They have betrayed EACH and every one ofUS...you and me.....anyone who ever presented scriptures to people desiring to help.....any of us who participated in or enrolled people in classes promising them all the answeres to life and Godliness.....anyone who ever invited people to fellowships or twi functions in good faith..... or ever supported twi financially....we did so under the belief that we were benefitting God and people.....we unkowingly provided the perfect camolflauge with our youthfull innocence for evil to reign unchecked.
I dearly hope that there is to be a reckoning someday....I hope that there really IS a God and that there will be justice someday....
I hope to HELL that we were taught in twi was wrong and that these people....these wolves ...false prophets are not going to slide by in the afterlife due to technicalities.
I think the thing that rings prevalant in my mind about all of this is that these men knew that women thought they would never have an evil intent in their mind because it was all about God and the Bible. God and the Bible was a disguise so they could do all they did.
I think about Catcup's and my own incident. It could all appear harmless, but it was really a sign to more that was going on. I know at the time, I didn't dare think evil about HA because he had spent so much time with VP. It is amazing to me that I would let my guard down about such incidents. Surely had it been someone else, I would have told them off. It's almost like my guard was down because of WHO he was. I'm sure this happened a lot.
Another funny thing is when I saw HA at the first Advanced Class Special after I had spent 5 years at HQ. I saw him and wanted to introduce him to my boyfriend at the time. When he first saw me, he said "You are looking good darlin'!" It felt weird to me. He was real touchy-feeling in his hug until I told him I wanted to introduce him to my boyfriend. He backed wayyyy off then.
The sadder thing to remind myself of is that my incidents are nill compared to a lot of things that were going on. But why in the H didn't I see it as a bigger problem back then?
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
23
25
16
21
Popular Days
Jan 1
27
Oct 18
25
Jan 6
25
Jan 7
21
Top Posters In This Topic
rascal 23 posts
excathedra 25 posts
Dot Matrix 16 posts
Catcup 21 posts
Popular Days
Jan 1 2006
27 posts
Oct 18 2002
25 posts
Jan 6 2006
25 posts
Jan 7 2006
21 posts
Posted Images
Dot Matrix
yes, for those that thought it was all about believer burgers and retemory cards, they were mistaken. They saw Barbies dream house but did not know what wicked Uncle Ernie was really doing to a lot of the Barbies.
IT was the house of horrors.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
[delete]
Edited by ModaustinLink to comment
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix
When Sunny left the corps and took half of them with her-- What was her reason for leaving? Did she see the abuse of sex? Was it the breakdowns and suicides or did she just not like Craig? I never really knew why she left, heard some guesses but nothing solid.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
i'm not sure
i think she was/is a kind human being and really cared about individual people
[cut]
if i've spoken out of turn, i am sorry
Edited by ModaustinLink to comment
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix
? out of turn?
I would really like Sunny to come on here and tell us what she knew and why she left.
Hey...
[edit]
Edited by ModaustinLink to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
remember when i used to like craig and told him he didn't have to continue in what dr. wierwille propounded
good god he ripped into me so bad
that's when i knew "forget it"
and geer .... patuie (i don't know how to spell that, it means spit)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix
Yeah, you had some guts to tell LCM that, but he melted your face with his athlete's of the spirit breath...
(joke)
I held Mrs. W's hand as she sobbed and sobbed using tissues and not speaking.
She had come into the coach and I was there, fat old VP tried to "Get me" and I left.
I went to see her and tell her, "Look I did not do anything. I do not participate in that stuff....." I told her I knew what she was going through and I understood.... etc. held her hand.
She did not speak, but we had an understanding after that. I could call her, meet her and we had this silent "thing".
PS
I wrote VP a letter and told him I thought he was being deceived by spirits because of all the antics he was doing, I told him that I thought the BOD was trying to push him out and he needed to clean up his act and push back.... I said a bunch of things to him....
I was probably on the Geer hit list..... Hahaha or they were still waiting for me to kill myself.
Edited by Dot MatrixLink to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
she always loved you
i knew that
are you the one she told at his graveside "he was a mean man" ?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
Sunny now there is a name I have not heard in a long time. What a great person she was I remember hearing her teach in Wichita in the 70's. I suppose we may never know Dot why? I always heard the same she and Craig always clashed but the reason of their clash was never revealed.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix
Ex - no, I am not the one.
White Dove - I really do wonder WHAT had them clashing ya know? Enough for her to leave and take a large portion of people with her. [snip]
Edited by ModaustinLink to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
No idea Dot [edit] But didn't she make a dramatic enterence when she returned in the middle of a Corps night?
Edited by ModaustinLink to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
any entrance would be dramatic during those frikkin boring nights
sowwy :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
Dot maybe Hope know's something I remembered this post she did and found it in the archives.
But then, I think it was in March, S^nny dared to defy his authority and the whole Corps got dismissed. Seems she had gathered together a small group of Corps who were loyal to her. She didn't like Craig - thought he yelled too much - didn't care for his methods. People who got reamed by him would go to her for comfort - and I think she got sick of it.
Anyway - she left - we all got dismissed - had to write on the back of a 3x5 card whether or not we wanted to come back - if not - we were to pack our bags and leave the next morning. I think about 50 - 60 people left at that point.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Catcup
[edit]
it was bad enough to find out about the "harems" of women Schoenheit spoke to me about.... it was even worse to discover my own sister... [delete]
And yes, I remember Sunny's group. I never felt the need to go to all those "women's" meetings she had, but I wish now I had so I would have known what the hell was going on. I do remember when she locked herself in a suite in one of the dorms.... Uncle Harry coming to try to talk to her.... and then she was gone, and the same m.o. with Craig badmouthing the person who was no longer there to defend herself.
Sunny, if you're out there, I'd sure love to hear what you have to say about it all.
Edited by ModaustinLink to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
OMG I knew that vp had taught about the fathers in Africa or some such place......[cut] omg and because the great vp said it.....almost everybody lapping it up like it is so spiritual.....
[edit]
My God...and people question whether or not that we were brain washed?
Dot you were very brave to go to help Mrs. vp I would have been terrified would have had to skulk around ashamed because even though innocent, I always feel guilty.
Excathedra....again, thank you.
Guys...(((((Ex dot, cat))))) thank you so much for speaking up about this difficult subject. You know that your stories are what finally pried oped my eyes and set me free.
I am so sorry for what you have been through....the horrors that you endured....but here you are turning that into a tool that is helping yet again.
Thank you for having the courage and stamina to continue to discuss this. People have got to KNOW that twi wasn`t what we were led to believe....People have got to KNOW that vp was unworthey of our trust before they can begin to honestly address what we were taught.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You know...I SHOULD probably just back away from the key boards when I am this angry....but jeeemany christmas....that vp taught this was ok and good.....makes my blood boil.
[edit]
Edited by ModaustinLink to comment
Share on other sites
Nottawayfer
Anybody could figure out there was something wrong in Way World. After reading all of this, I can see there were signs, BIG SIGNS in my own mind even though I was never recruited in to any of the horrible stuff.
I remember one time approaching Howard Allen at the last Word in Business and making a comment about his red boots. His response to me was "I keep them shiney so I can use them to look up the girl's dresses." I wasn't wearing a dress at the time, but it struck me as really odd. He even demonstrated it even though I wasn't wearing a dress. I thought he was kind of a pervert at the time, but I guess I thought he was harmless. He was probably "fishing" to see what kind of response he would get.
It makes me sick. Gawd. It was all in the name of God, and these SICK BASTARD DOGS are doing all of this in front of God. Man, I want to see the day the get repaid for their wrongs.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
[snip]
I really don`t see it as much of a step beyond this to the young women that were molested in twi.... They entering the way corpes or wow field believing that they are there to serve God.....Having learned to trust their ministers as spiritual leaders....having them presented as representatives of a wholesom God and the scriptures......with the blue print of God`s desire for our lives.....claiming to have ALL answers to life and Godliness.....to then being groomed and then required to submit sexually in order to be a dulous....in order to be deemed spiritually mature.....to be drugged when manipulation failed ...and have your protestations to be silenced by threats and coersion.
[delete]
Edited by ModaustinLink to comment
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix
[deleted]
Wafernot
Sounds like he was fishing and reading your face to see if he could continue....
Edited by ModaustinLink to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
...and folks are suprised that there were mental break downs and suicides with this kind of pressure????
These leaders were supposed to help us get closer to God.....our hearts desire was to learn how to be the best servant that we could be for God....to dedicate our lives in service to him.......and these people....these wolves TOOK that and they USED that to steal that which they were in no way entitled to, nor would they have ever gotten.
How anyone can see an ounce of wholesomness or Godliness in these criminal perverts is beyond me :(
They USED God and the scriptures to steal kill and destroy pure and simple
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Dot, that is awfull.... they were supposed to help us.....how many deeply hurt people are sentanced to struggling through the rest of this life ..... forever changed because of contact with these creeps?
What POSSIBLE good could anybody have recieved to be considered worth the damage that was so casually inflicted on believers?
Not only was damage inflicted in order for the sick lusts to be satisfied..... but active seeking to inflict as much damage as possible for failure to satisfy the requirements....if you dissapointed them...they were gonna mess you up....and they were going to make darned sure that you didn`t let their dirty little secret outta the bag.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
markomalley
This is a nauseating thread.
Thank you ladies for letting the rest of us see this...
Hard to believe that when I first started lurking on WD I thought the problem was only with the forehead boy.
Threads like this really reveal so much how the sickness goes to the whole core of the organization...
So when do you think an apologist is going to come and attempt to blast you for spreading rumors (I see one of them lurking on this thread...)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Catcup
Ah, yes, the red boots. I do remember them.
And I remember Howard.
It has been a long time since this was at the forefront of any thread, so I'll post it again here:
During PFAL 77 in Muncie, Indiana, I was doing Bless Patrol with another girl near the doors leading from the motor coach into the building. We would open the doors for VP and Howard and escort them to the back stage area as they walked through. I do recall VPW walking in nothing but his bath robe from the coach to the back stage area, and once thrust a bar of Coast soap in my nose, and said, "Here, smell this, ain't it great!"
BTW one of the details that made one girl's rape testimony hit home for me and ring true, was that afterwards, she could no longer stand the smell of anything like Coast bath soap.
He and Howard had come back and forth through the area several times that day and each time we opened the doors for them. Then later on, I began to detect a whiff of alcohol on Howard as he began passing by. The next time he and VPW came by and I opened the door...
Howard grabbed me, laid a sloppy wet french kiss on me, laughed, and said "You've been asking for that all day!"
I still remember the stench and taste of the alcohol as he forced his tongue into my mouth.
He and VPW laughed and continued back stage.
I was embarassed, kind of giggled, and back then chalked it up to Howard having had too much to drink and forgave it.
But I know now it was a hell of a lot more than that.
And I will never forget it.
Edited by CatcupLink to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Agreed MarkO
These people betrayed us ALL...even if we weren`t directly assaulted personally....even though we persanally were not driven to the point of suicide.....maybe not broken beyond repair.....twi leaders were DOING this to OUR innocent brothers and sisters unbeknownst to us with OUR support and living off of OUR contributions...their fresh new recruits supplied by OUR outreach and undershepherding.....we unknowingly led the victims to the slaughter
Their appearance at legitimacy and spiritual Godliness was provided entirely by OUR bible teachings OUR appearance of good character.....OUR integrety....
They hijacked peoples lives and even peoples ministries .... people who simply wanted to make a difference for God in this world.....and maliciously decieved them into promoting and supporting a very evil harmfull group...
They have betrayed EACH and every one ofUS...you and me.....anyone who ever presented scriptures to people desiring to help.....any of us who participated in or enrolled people in classes promising them all the answeres to life and Godliness.....anyone who ever invited people to fellowships or twi functions in good faith..... or ever supported twi financially....we did so under the belief that we were benefitting God and people.....we unkowingly provided the perfect camolflauge with our youthfull innocence for evil to reign unchecked.
I dearly hope that there is to be a reckoning someday....I hope that there really IS a God and that there will be justice someday....
I hope to HELL that we were taught in twi was wrong and that these people....these wolves ...false prophets are not going to slide by in the afterlife due to technicalities.
Edited by rascalLink to comment
Share on other sites
Nottawayfer
I think the thing that rings prevalant in my mind about all of this is that these men knew that women thought they would never have an evil intent in their mind because it was all about God and the Bible. God and the Bible was a disguise so they could do all they did.
I think about Catcup's and my own incident. It could all appear harmless, but it was really a sign to more that was going on. I know at the time, I didn't dare think evil about HA because he had spent so much time with VP. It is amazing to me that I would let my guard down about such incidents. Surely had it been someone else, I would have told them off. It's almost like my guard was down because of WHO he was. I'm sure this happened a lot.
Another funny thing is when I saw HA at the first Advanced Class Special after I had spent 5 years at HQ. I saw him and wanted to introduce him to my boyfriend at the time. When he first saw me, he said "You are looking good darlin'!" It felt weird to me. He was real touchy-feeling in his hug until I told him I wanted to introduce him to my boyfriend. He backed wayyyy off then.
The sadder thing to remind myself of is that my incidents are nill compared to a lot of things that were going on. But why in the H didn't I see it as a bigger problem back then?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.