Hehe, too noisy here to try to quiet the mind - dogs barking, kids playing. :)--> Will try that part later.
But one thing I have read, which I thought was interesting, and sort of fits with this topic, was our bodies were specifically designed and chosen for us and we are to learn from them and learn to become comfortable in them. Hmmmm, trying to find a way to explain this - ok a somewhat simplistic view
The woman who is beautiful may feel uncomfortable with her body because she feels people aren't interested in the inner her - i.e. men want her because of her beauty not because of who she is and women envy her because of her beauty and never take the time to know her.
An unattractive woman in uncomfortable in her body because she feels her appears turns men off so they never take the time to know the inner her, etc.
So, one of the lessons we are to learn in this life is how to love ourselves, which includes our bodies, just as they are.
We inherit most of our sins in the form of our body/mind. To untangle this hand we're dealt is to work out our soma/wholeness. Gentleness, precision, and mindfulness are important at this stage.
In the end, every ounce of pain is discovered as worthwhile.
And every break and bend and knot and tangle in our body/mind becomes our truest gifts (which actually changes our past).
Heck. If we take it far enough, we may even find ourselves naked and aflame with sacrificial love for every living being we encounter, when we encounter it, where we encounter, regardless of all else (i.e. loonier than a jay-bird to all those wonderful fundamentalists and cynics and ego-centrics and pleasure-seekers, all of which are still a part of us and will ever be). Whenever we "reject" manifesting this choiceless nature of love in ourselves, we are indeed practicing a heresy, for we have chosen whom to love and whom not to love - in action and intent and heart, if nothing else.
First and foremost, to love our body/mind is to feel and see and know its pains.
If we are afraid of pain, we cannot know where to heal and restore.
It takes courage.
As we develop this, we also see others as whole (even if they don't) and can feel their pain.
This too, takes courage. Especially towards our enemies.
How can we find and fulfill a problem in the woods if we won't follow those bloody crumbs it leaves in its wake?
How can we atone like Christ if we are afraid to lose?
Pain is the path to wholeness (as it is the path to birth).
When and where you flinch is where your future wisdom waits, always.
When and where you will not look is where your ignorance is, always.
The questions we cannot bring ourselves to ask are what reveals what we will never know.
God bless your heart After reading and while reading I try to feel diff parts of my body
I reach out to the parts that need more love because of the past foods I have ate and the old life style I lived
I allso reach to the parts that need less love and I plan to began long talks with my fleshly parts putting them subject to receive the love of the spirit
I see your point and believe that as I try this it will help in the healing of my body by my spirit which is the Christ within with God within Christ
What power I have if I just rise up and use it thanks for giving me alot to think about while I grow in love
***Abigail again - I keep forgetting to log 1000Names out, he posts so rarely - but his tag line sure fits this thread well*************
Hmmm Cynic, not a fan but can't resist reading, eh?
" for we have chosen whom to love and whom not to love - in action and intent and heart, if nothing else. "
And as we judge, so shall we be judged.
"If we are afraid of pain, we cannot know where to heal and restore.
It takes courage. "
Perhaps it is the courage which makes some, in the eyes of others, seem to be "loonier than jay-bird"
"When and where you flinch is where your future wisdom waits, always.
When and where you will not look is where your ignorance is, always.
The questions we cannot bring ourselves to ask are what reveals what we will never know."
I think, when and where you flinch, you will overcome. When and where you will not look are the lessons which will be the most painful to learn. Just some thoughts. :)-->
Hi Cynic and Todd I enjoy both of your posting throughout GSC for different reasons.
In this thread it almost like looking at light and dark one seems to celebrate the integration of body and the other the isolation of body from mind, perhaps a form of disintegration?
I also find peoples choices of screen names and avatars very apt representations of their essences. And in both your cases they seem to be particularly apt.
Out of curiosity (in the hopes of understanding Cynics posts better) I looked up the definition of cynic and this is part of what I found here
1. A person who believes all people are motivated by selfishness.
2. A person whose outlook is scornfully and often habitually negative.
3. Cynic A member of a sect of ancient Greek philosophers who believed virtue to be the only good and self-control to be the only means of achieving virtue.
adj.
1. Cynical.
2. Cynic Of or relating to the Cynics or their beliefs.
[Latin cynicus, Cynic philosopher, from Greek kunikos, from kuon, kun-, dog. See kwon- in Indo-European Roots.]
Word History: A cynic may be pardoned for thinking that this is a dog's life. The Greek word kunikos, from which cynic comes, was originally an adjective meaning “doglike,” from kuon, “dog.” The word was probably applied to the Cynic philosophers because of the nickname kuon given to Diogenes of Sinope, the prototypical Cynic. He is reported to have been seen barking in public, urinating on the leg of a table, and masturbating on the street. The first use of the word recorded in English, in a work published from 1547 to 1564, is in the plural for members of this philosophical sect. In 1596 we find the first instance of cynic meaning “faultfinder,” a sense that was to develop into our modern sense. The meaning “faultfinder” came naturally from the behavior of countless Cynics who in their pursuit of virtue pointed out the flaws in others. Such faultfinding could lead quite naturally to the belief associated with cynics of today that selfishness determines human behavior.
What I find fascinating is that philosophers who put such a high value on virtue through self control were famous (if not notorious) for acting with such an apparent lack of self control.
I think it is relevant to your topic Todd because it is an interesting example of mind/body disconnect? Or is it actually an example of loving and integrating your deepest fear into your self and celebrating it? Any thoughts on this Cynic? Todd?
Cynic- Also why is there an association in your mind between what Todd has posted and the Spanish Inquisition and Torquemada? Does his exercise sound like torture to you? Or does his writing remind you of Torquemada's?
Cynic's small "contributions" seem to ooze with quite an ironic sort of anti-relevance. I've been trying not to get too excited about its popping up. Kinda sad. Kinda cute.
Cold hard cynicism (not the poster) is the antithesis of compassion. Odd thing is, both come from the same place - the heart. One is full, the other is empty. One can't help but be quick to say "all things are possible." The other can't help but be quick to say "no such thing is ever possible."
And cynicism can't really tell the difference between pre-rational myth and more trans-rational spiritual experience, and so it calls them both the same thing, which perpetuates a regression back to all earlier states of being (by egoicly declaring itself to be the highest state of mind possible).
But stuck at the CROSSroads is what it is, of which, unity of body/mind are just on the other side (though still not the highest state of being either). This cold hard cynicism actually serves to keep lower states of mind from passing beyond what the Bible calls "carnal-mindedness."
American culture is suffering from a nasty case of regressive cynicism right now, it seems. Its a lot of "liberal" cynics versus the strictly-patriarchal hardline theists. Their mantra seems to be "no one can ever be better than any one else, and all spiritual experience is equally valid/invalid as religion." People being burned by theist Christianity feuls this flatland cynicism, when there is so much more to learn and do, and amazing things are happening in spite of it all.
And so, just like the theists, the cynics see any real transformative practice as more mere religion (which it is not). Or they use the ole thought-stopper of calling them "new agers" or some other shibboleth, when most any transformative practice is really older than Rome itself. And besides, it is 2004 and the world has changed many times since whenever anyway = yet another new age, as always, blah blah blah. They come and go, ya know.
I think its odd, too, how, when someone suggests that old connection between divine love and pain, how certain others seem to suggest they might want to put this theory to the test (on the suggester, of course). Classic, actually, if you think about it.
And it gets really nasty when someone is equally patriarchal theist and cynical wet blanket. Talk about torture chambers of the soul. Industrious, systematic AND denying most all possibility!?!
Anyway, Cynic,
I'm not sure what to say, but good luck, man.
You only diminish your own virtue, especially when you can't disintegrate another's.
---
Imagine the entire human body as also being your "brain."
Every muscle, every bone, every gland.
A tree of life.
A tree of knowledge.
A truly beautiful thing.
Next time you look at your child or loved one,
look at their body and think "what I see is also their mind."
But stuck at the CROSSroads is what it is, of which, unity of body/mind are just on the other side (though still not the highest state of being either).
And,
quote:
Their mantra seems to be "no one can ever be better than any one else, and all spiritual experience is equally valid/invalid as religion."
Sirguessalot,
Do you think you are some superior soul who has passed to a higher state of being?
Though you apparently have not made an explicit claim to have attained some Baptist Bob- and Joe Sixpack-transcending state of being, existence and/or consciousness, you preen and pontificate as if some such thing can be actualized and you have significant knowledge of it.
While Sirg's posts may seem out of the ordinary and foreign to the mind-his first post on this thread is the most simple and logical post on loving yourself and loving others that I have ever seen.
The self ego tends to attack what it does not understand instead of listening and considering and maybe even trying it out.
Sirg does not need me to defend his words but I have tryed some of his counsel and have benefited from it.
The damned daily grind of life gets in the way too often though.
I get to peace a lot more though then I used to. I wish I could take a month or 6 to just practice some of the things that sirg has suggested.
I know this in no way contributes to this thread in a productive manner, but I'm still drinking my first cup of coffee for the day and I just don't have the will power to resist. . . .
"Cold hard cynicism (not the poster) is the antithesis of compassion. Odd thing is, both come from the same place - the heart. One is full, the other is empty. "
When I first read this line I almost fell off the chair laughing cause I had this mental image of Cynic as the Grinch. You know the scene where they show his teeny tiny heart. . . . :D-->
When I first read this line I almost fell off the chair laughing cause I had this mental image of Cynic as the Grinch. You know the scene where they show his teeny tiny heart. . . .
Abigail,
I prefer a "teeny tiny heart" that goes around openly accosting its various particular and general classes of opponents to one that veils delusion, antipathy and a will to self-emergence as enlightenment, compassion and virtue.
Recommended Posts
TheManOfa Thousand ScreenNames
****POSTED BY ABIGAIL************
Hehe, too noisy here to try to quiet the mind - dogs barking, kids playing.
:)--> Will try that part later.
But one thing I have read, which I thought was interesting, and sort of fits with this topic, was our bodies were specifically designed and chosen for us and we are to learn from them and learn to become comfortable in them. Hmmmm, trying to find a way to explain this - ok a somewhat simplistic view
The woman who is beautiful may feel uncomfortable with her body because she feels people aren't interested in the inner her - i.e. men want her because of her beauty not because of who she is and women envy her because of her beauty and never take the time to know her.
An unattractive woman in uncomfortable in her body because she feels her appears turns men off so they never take the time to know the inner her, etc.
So, one of the lessons we are to learn in this life is how to love ourselves, which includes our bodies, just as they are.
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sirguessalot
amen
We inherit most of our sins in the form of our body/mind. To untangle this hand we're dealt is to work out our soma/wholeness. Gentleness, precision, and mindfulness are important at this stage.
In the end, every ounce of pain is discovered as worthwhile.
And every break and bend and knot and tangle in our body/mind becomes our truest gifts (which actually changes our past).
Heck. If we take it far enough, we may even find ourselves naked and aflame with sacrificial love for every living being we encounter, when we encounter it, where we encounter, regardless of all else (i.e. loonier than a jay-bird to all those wonderful fundamentalists and cynics and ego-centrics and pleasure-seekers, all of which are still a part of us and will ever be). Whenever we "reject" manifesting this choiceless nature of love in ourselves, we are indeed practicing a heresy, for we have chosen whom to love and whom not to love - in action and intent and heart, if nothing else.
First and foremost, to love our body/mind is to feel and see and know its pains.
If we are afraid of pain, we cannot know where to heal and restore.
It takes courage.
As we develop this, we also see others as whole (even if they don't) and can feel their pain.
This too, takes courage. Especially towards our enemies.
How can we find and fulfill a problem in the woods if we won't follow those bloody crumbs it leaves in its wake?
How can we atone like Christ if we are afraid to lose?
Pain is the path to wholeness (as it is the path to birth).
When and where you flinch is where your future wisdom waits, always.
When and where you will not look is where your ignorance is, always.
The questions we cannot bring ourselves to ask are what reveals what we will never know.
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Cynic
Where's Torquemada when you need him?
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sirguessalot
lol!
Yer one creepy dude, Cynic.
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TheManOfa Thousand ScreenNames
This really is me
:D-->
Well, I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition........
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year2027
God first
Hi Sirguessalot - Todd
God bless your heart After reading and while reading I try to feel diff parts of my body
I reach out to the parts that need more love because of the past foods I have ate and the old life style I lived
I allso reach to the parts that need less love and I plan to began long talks with my fleshly parts putting them subject to receive the love of the spirit
I see your point and believe that as I try this it will help in the healing of my body by my spirit which is the Christ within with God within Christ
What power I have if I just rise up and use it thanks for giving me alot to think about while I grow in love
with Love Roy
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Cynic
A cynical quip directed against the mystical upchucking of GS's resident preening Newager.
I'm actually not a fan of the SI.
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sirguessalot
The labels are kinda funny.
If thats all you have/want to give, I guess.
You wanna talk about it?
Or just spit at/against it some more?
You sound like you wanna get something off yer chest.
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TheManOfa Thousand ScreenNames
***Abigail again - I keep forgetting to log 1000Names out, he posts so rarely - but his tag line sure fits this thread well*************
Hmmm Cynic, not a fan but can't resist reading, eh?
" for we have chosen whom to love and whom not to love - in action and intent and heart, if nothing else. "
And as we judge, so shall we be judged.
"If we are afraid of pain, we cannot know where to heal and restore.
It takes courage. "
Perhaps it is the courage which makes some, in the eyes of others, seem to be "loonier than jay-bird"
"When and where you flinch is where your future wisdom waits, always.
When and where you will not look is where your ignorance is, always.
The questions we cannot bring ourselves to ask are what reveals what we will never know."
I think, when and where you flinch, you will overcome. When and where you will not look are the lessons which will be the most painful to learn. Just some thoughts.
:)-->
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year2027
God first
Hi Cynic
I am not a fan of any poster but what I am is part of their family to me they are sisters and brothers
Just like you are dear to me whether you know it or not
We are a group which is like a family whether we like it or not
When you take time to read the writtens of others it tells me that you want to read it
whether good or bad that would be your personal walk
I have brothers and sisters that believe in God here and ones that do not
I have brothers that are sisters and sisters that are brothers
But all matters to me is that they are part of my family of Grease Spot Cape posters or readers
Some read and never post but I love them all the same
Some dislike me but I love them all the same
Some love me back and that what keeps me going from day to day posting here in this board
love is what its about for me
and its love that helps us through the pain that lifes brings over and over
God bless your heart
with love Roy
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Cynic
SI = Spanish Inquisition
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ckeer
Roy- Your walk in love is heart warming
Hi Cynic and Todd I enjoy both of your posting throughout GSC for different reasons.
In this thread it almost like looking at light and dark one seems to celebrate the integration of body and the other the isolation of body from mind, perhaps a form of disintegration?
I also find peoples choices of screen names and avatars very apt representations of their essences. And in both your cases they seem to be particularly apt.
Out of curiosity (in the hopes of understanding Cynics posts better) I looked up the definition of cynic and this is part of what I found here
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cynic
1. A person who believes all people are motivated by selfishness.
2. A person whose outlook is scornfully and often habitually negative.
3. Cynic A member of a sect of ancient Greek philosophers who believed virtue to be the only good and self-control to be the only means of achieving virtue.
adj.
1. Cynical.
2. Cynic Of or relating to the Cynics or their beliefs.
[Latin cynicus, Cynic philosopher, from Greek kunikos, from kuon, kun-, dog. See kwon- in Indo-European Roots.]
Word History: A cynic may be pardoned for thinking that this is a dog's life. The Greek word kunikos, from which cynic comes, was originally an adjective meaning “doglike,” from kuon, “dog.” The word was probably applied to the Cynic philosophers because of the nickname kuon given to Diogenes of Sinope, the prototypical Cynic. He is reported to have been seen barking in public, urinating on the leg of a table, and masturbating on the street. The first use of the word recorded in English, in a work published from 1547 to 1564, is in the plural for members of this philosophical sect. In 1596 we find the first instance of cynic meaning “faultfinder,” a sense that was to develop into our modern sense. The meaning “faultfinder” came naturally from the behavior of countless Cynics who in their pursuit of virtue pointed out the flaws in others. Such faultfinding could lead quite naturally to the belief associated with cynics of today that selfishness determines human behavior.
What I find fascinating is that philosophers who put such a high value on virtue through self control were famous (if not notorious) for acting with such an apparent lack of self control.
I think it is relevant to your topic Todd because it is an interesting example of mind/body disconnect? Or is it actually an example of loving and integrating your deepest fear into your self and celebrating it? Any thoughts on this Cynic? Todd?
Cynic- Also why is there an association in your mind between what Todd has posted and the Spanish Inquisition and Torquemada? Does his exercise sound like torture to you? Or does his writing remind you of Torquemada's?
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Cynic
ckeer,
Up yours, too.
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ckeer
Thanks Cynic- I figured you’d realize I suffer from chronic cranial rectosis.
I just expected a more erudite and penetrating reply
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sirguessalot
ironic. very.
Cynic's small "contributions" seem to ooze with quite an ironic sort of anti-relevance. I've been trying not to get too excited about its popping up. Kinda sad. Kinda cute.
Cold hard cynicism (not the poster) is the antithesis of compassion. Odd thing is, both come from the same place - the heart. One is full, the other is empty. One can't help but be quick to say "all things are possible." The other can't help but be quick to say "no such thing is ever possible."
And cynicism can't really tell the difference between pre-rational myth and more trans-rational spiritual experience, and so it calls them both the same thing, which perpetuates a regression back to all earlier states of being (by egoicly declaring itself to be the highest state of mind possible).
But stuck at the CROSSroads is what it is, of which, unity of body/mind are just on the other side (though still not the highest state of being either). This cold hard cynicism actually serves to keep lower states of mind from passing beyond what the Bible calls "carnal-mindedness."
American culture is suffering from a nasty case of regressive cynicism right now, it seems. Its a lot of "liberal" cynics versus the strictly-patriarchal hardline theists. Their mantra seems to be "no one can ever be better than any one else, and all spiritual experience is equally valid/invalid as religion." People being burned by theist Christianity feuls this flatland cynicism, when there is so much more to learn and do, and amazing things are happening in spite of it all.
And so, just like the theists, the cynics see any real transformative practice as more mere religion (which it is not). Or they use the ole thought-stopper of calling them "new agers" or some other shibboleth, when most any transformative practice is really older than Rome itself. And besides, it is 2004 and the world has changed many times since whenever anyway = yet another new age, as always, blah blah blah. They come and go, ya know.
I think its odd, too, how, when someone suggests that old connection between divine love and pain, how certain others seem to suggest they might want to put this theory to the test (on the suggester, of course). Classic, actually, if you think about it.
And it gets really nasty when someone is equally patriarchal theist and cynical wet blanket. Talk about torture chambers of the soul. Industrious, systematic AND denying most all possibility!?!
Anyway, Cynic,
I'm not sure what to say, but good luck, man.
You only diminish your own virtue, especially when you can't disintegrate another's.
---
Imagine the entire human body as also being your "brain."
Every muscle, every bone, every gland.
A tree of life.
A tree of knowledge.
A truly beautiful thing.
Next time you look at your child or loved one,
look at their body and think "what I see is also their mind."
These things help.
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Cynic
And,
Sirguessalot,
Do you think you are some superior soul who has passed to a higher state of being?
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sirguessalot
Nope.
I am.
I just am.
Nothing special.
What about you?
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Cynic
Sirguessalot,
Though you apparently have not made an explicit claim to have attained some Baptist Bob- and Joe Sixpack-transcending state of being, existence and/or consciousness, you preen and pontificate as if some such thing can be actualized and you have significant knowledge of it.
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sirguessalot
And?
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Vertical Limit
While Sirg's posts may seem out of the ordinary and foreign to the mind-his first post on this thread is the most simple and logical post on loving yourself and loving others that I have ever seen.
The self ego tends to attack what it does not understand instead of listening and considering and maybe even trying it out.
Sirg does not need me to defend his words but I have tryed some of his counsel and have benefited from it.
The damned daily grind of life gets in the way too often though.
I get to peace a lot more though then I used to. I wish I could take a month or 6 to just practice some of the things that sirg has suggested.
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Abigail
I know this in no way contributes to this thread in a productive manner, but I'm still drinking my first cup of coffee for the day and I just don't have the will power to resist. . . .
"Cold hard cynicism (not the poster) is the antithesis of compassion. Odd thing is, both come from the same place - the heart. One is full, the other is empty. "
When I first read this line I almost fell off the chair laughing cause I had this mental image of Cynic as the Grinch. You know the scene where they show his teeny tiny heart. . . .
:D-->
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Abigail
Well said, Vert!
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Cynic
Abigail,
I prefer a "teeny tiny heart" that goes around openly accosting its various particular and general classes of opponents to one that veils delusion, antipathy and a will to self-emergence as enlightenment, compassion and virtue.
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Vertical Limit
"self-emergence as enlightenment, compassion and virtue."
hmmmm---yeah scarey isn't it. You might just like yourself. Change is a scarey thing.
If you put your fears away, you might just like what emerges. But take your time about it, there ain't no hurry.
Love your enemies....where are they?
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