not specifically. ive been swept away by a few other things lately. but i do plan to get back to it someday soon...and passionately. either here at the gsc or elsewhere
another track i'd like to develop and explore alongside the cyber versions, is taking the idea to mainstream churches and ministers in meatspace. or as one-day group retreats, hiking trips...live f2f stuff, ya know?
truth is, one of the main reasons i introduced small tastes of the process here was not just so i could learn to facilitate, but so others might want to learn how to "facilitate in open space".
...in churches and temples, at work and school, for holidays, with our children, our neighbors...
the potential for "stimulating positive transformation," if you will, is pretty high, imo. which makes this somewhat of a high priority, considering how communication breakdown is what seems to be making the world go even crazier.
to simply open up and unfold the forms and manners in which we speak to each other, is to change the way we literally "lick each other's hearts."
and if it can evolve into the mainstream, it could revolutionize everything
consider how much weight is given to higher communication skills in the instruction of the gospels and epistles, in terms of the collective spiritual rebirth
more efficiently taps into our collective intelligence and wisdom, deepens compassion and understanding and patience, give voice and validity to the marginalized, widens the spectrum and integrates the sciences and religions...
(no, this is not the same as a list of green card promises...cuz it really is free, and transparent, and is not owned by any organized body, and has been and is being proven and demonstrated throughout the world and history in more contexts and languages than can be expressed in one place)
Also, TWI interrupted the natural socialization process for many young adults, who came to TWI just when they were beginning to learn how to deal with adult situations, and socially interact with and as adults in an adult world. TWI perverted that process, and unfortunately left many people socially crippled and unable to understand how how to interact in the real world. This can negatively affect them in their jobs and in their family, marital, and social relationships.
Wonderful point Catcup. I've often thought the same. How did they instill that **false sense of responsibility** in us? Gosh, we just thought we were responsible for everybody and everything, didn't we? LOL! I'm so glad to be free of that.
Probably the worst, they taught us to fight dirty with OURSELVES. Just renew the mind, ignore the bad manners, hold questions about idiotic doctrine in abeyance, until TWI experts can "get back to you about it". Sit and take it because "the bible tells me so". Forget that that little voice telling you all is not well may just not be the devil himself.
I can especially relate to the one about having our normal socialization process taken off track. I literally think about this almost daily, especially in my work when i'm interfacing with clients. In fact I make it a point to take second chair to my partner when it comes to negative aspects of customer relations. Even though he is more than ten years younger than me, I don't assume that I'm his "social senior."
Part of it is because I have an East Coast mentality and we work in the mid-west where he's from, but I do factor in what I'll call the TWI deficit. Recognizing that "waybrain" tends to surface quickly in mentally volatile situations I really defer to him and "let him handle it" more than I would.
A somewhat funny incident on the same topic:
As a WOW Family coordinator on my interim WC year, we had an old High School friend (non TWI) of one of my WOWs look him up and come to visit him/us. Since she was from out of state she crashed at our apartment. From her POV I was her friend's roommate, no problem.
Her first night in town I wound up riding with her in her car to show her how to get to the apartment. She went to put in a music casette tape,
"You like the Police? She asked.
What an odd question, I was thinking this strange, stranger from Colorado was asking. Nice person, she must be striking up conversation.
I was nice too, so I said, kinda quizzically, "Some times." Not wanting to be too negative I then said, "They can be cool sometimes. Sometimes I really like them, other times, I'm not really into their stuff."
"Cool, how about now?" she said.
I'm thinking, NOW?? Police?? I don't see any Police.... Then answered, "Well, I guess they might be cool right now...."
She said "Cool." Popped the tape in and said, "You're pretty funny, Dave said you were cool."
Now I'm thinking this chick is pretty wierd, but she seems to be nice enough.
We rode along in silence for a minute or two cause I really didn't know what to say to this strange chick. Then I said, "Cool music, who is this?"
"Oh. That's 'The Police.' Its their new album, if you don't like it I'll put in something else!"
I felt like such an IDIOT! The Police were only one of THE hot bands of the day. I was so immersed in Way World for the past 2 1/2 years that I had NO idea who they were! How in the WORLD was I ever gonna witness to anybody when I knew nothing about what was up with LIFE on the planet?
I sat there kinda stewing, she was sensitive enough to pick up on it & thought I didn't like the music. I really did.
I vowed at that moment NEVER to let myself fall that far out of touch again.
The moral of the story is yes, I missed a whole part of the 80's while toiling in Way World. I've had to do "double time" work to get caught up socially. Unfortunately that phenomena is not unique to TWI, but it certainly exists there, BIG time.
Yeah, I confess to not having read this whole thread. So shoot me. :)-->
But I work in a profession where customer service is a big part of what I do. (OK, I guess I should explain that I actually got halfway to a master's degree in counseling before I took my current job.)
Once we draw the line in the sand, there is no going back. And it ain't worth it.
In my profession, not only as counselor, but as an interior designer who has to put up with alot of people stuff, I have learned that you really have to give people room to CHANGE THEIR MINDS.
It happens all the time, and it's not a crime. :)-->
I have learned that you really have to give people room to CHANGE THEIR MINDS.
god, ex10, this really jumped off the page.
i just "had to" respond to the inspiration
:)-->
to me, "giving room" = "making space"
like "being clearER" in a "clearing"
and so...to both work and play at this behaviour of "giving of room"...
...as an art form
...as a lifestyle
...as a "religion," if you will
...is indeed a higher calling
in that...we are already always being called to such a way of being with each other
spiritually
evolutionarily
whatever you wanna call it
and it is at least an entire step beyond what we learn in The Way (and ilk)
in fact, we already kinda do it, here, now, at the GSC
which is why this place is sooo cool (as in refreshing)
tho, another step beyond, i believe, comes when we are not simply falling into such a wonderful open space
but rather, when we consciously, intentionally, specifically, curiously, and playfully, JUMP OFF into such a place together...
...when we more deeply know that we are doing it...and why...
...this it what changes things a bit more
there is a descending move to this idea, in all of us
coming "down to earth" from a higher place (no, not "higher" as in elitism, but "higher" as in a place of love and openness and general practiced focused "allowingness," if you will)
I have learned that you really have to give people room to CHANGE THEIR MINDS.
The Way International never gave us opportunity to do that-- change our minds, that is, unless we were changing our minds to agree with them.
After leaving such a fossilized environment, it is sometimes difficult for us to allow ourselves and each other the space and time (and it takes both) to see the need to, and be able to change. We've had our wings clipped and cramped up inside an extremely limited prison and it takes time to work out the kinks.
We should expect a little pain involved from time to time-- ours, and that of the other person. Sometimes both at once.
It's normal and natural, when rediscovering our selves and our rights as human beings, concepts that were denied us for decades within the mental bonds of a cult.
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sirguessalot
not specifically. ive been swept away by a few other things lately. but i do plan to get back to it someday soon...and passionately. either here at the gsc or elsewhere
another track i'd like to develop and explore alongside the cyber versions, is taking the idea to mainstream churches and ministers in meatspace. or as one-day group retreats, hiking trips...live f2f stuff, ya know?
truth is, one of the main reasons i introduced small tastes of the process here was not just so i could learn to facilitate, but so others might want to learn how to "facilitate in open space".
...in churches and temples, at work and school, for holidays, with our children, our neighbors...
the potential for "stimulating positive transformation," if you will, is pretty high, imo. which makes this somewhat of a high priority, considering how communication breakdown is what seems to be making the world go even crazier.
to simply open up and unfold the forms and manners in which we speak to each other, is to change the way we literally "lick each other's hearts."
and if it can evolve into the mainstream, it could revolutionize everything
consider how much weight is given to higher communication skills in the instruction of the gospels and epistles, in terms of the collective spiritual rebirth
more efficiently taps into our collective intelligence and wisdom, deepens compassion and understanding and patience, give voice and validity to the marginalized, widens the spectrum and integrates the sciences and religions...
(no, this is not the same as a list of green card promises...cuz it really is free, and transparent, and is not owned by any organized body, and has been and is being proven and demonstrated throughout the world and history in more contexts and languages than can be expressed in one place)
a new tongue
a new song
a new wine
:)-->
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CM
the fear of being naked ever present from Adam on
but to tap into the unseen and experience the open
relatonship that exists precludes the willingness
to hide behind false fronts of the flesh and open
up a new perspective and understanding
such is the fear of openness
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sirguessalot
a little something along these lines you guys might appreciate: Blowing Bubbles in Open Space
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waterbuffalo
Wonderful point Catcup. I've often thought the same. How did they instill that **false sense of responsibility** in us? Gosh, we just thought we were responsible for everybody and everything, didn't we? LOL! I'm so glad to be free of that.
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sirguessalot
another link chock full of goodies: Peer Spirit
and no, not another twi
but perhaps some of what twi was missing in terms of how to simply be with each other
i think it can be tremendously helpful and healing for and re-grounding ex-way and innies to look into things like this
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Catcup
This is sadly, so, so true.
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Catcup
CW--
Go right ahead. I'm sure you've got some very interesting & insightful observations to make along those lines.
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HCW
Thanks for the great observations folks.
I can especially relate to the one about having our normal socialization process taken off track. I literally think about this almost daily, especially in my work when i'm interfacing with clients. In fact I make it a point to take second chair to my partner when it comes to negative aspects of customer relations. Even though he is more than ten years younger than me, I don't assume that I'm his "social senior."
Part of it is because I have an East Coast mentality and we work in the mid-west where he's from, but I do factor in what I'll call the TWI deficit. Recognizing that "waybrain" tends to surface quickly in mentally volatile situations I really defer to him and "let him handle it" more than I would.
A somewhat funny incident on the same topic:
As a WOW Family coordinator on my interim WC year, we had an old High School friend (non TWI) of one of my WOWs look him up and come to visit him/us. Since she was from out of state she crashed at our apartment. From her POV I was her friend's roommate, no problem.
Her first night in town I wound up riding with her in her car to show her how to get to the apartment. She went to put in a music casette tape,
"You like the Police? She asked.
What an odd question, I was thinking this strange, stranger from Colorado was asking. Nice person, she must be striking up conversation.
I was nice too, so I said, kinda quizzically, "Some times." Not wanting to be too negative I then said, "They can be cool sometimes. Sometimes I really like them, other times, I'm not really into their stuff."
"Cool, how about now?" she said.
I'm thinking, NOW?? Police?? I don't see any Police.... Then answered, "Well, I guess they might be cool right now...."
She said "Cool." Popped the tape in and said, "You're pretty funny, Dave said you were cool."
Now I'm thinking this chick is pretty wierd, but she seems to be nice enough.
We rode along in silence for a minute or two cause I really didn't know what to say to this strange chick. Then I said, "Cool music, who is this?"
"Oh. That's 'The Police.' Its their new album, if you don't like it I'll put in something else!"
I felt like such an IDIOT! The Police were only one of THE hot bands of the day. I was so immersed in Way World for the past 2 1/2 years that I had NO idea who they were! How in the WORLD was I ever gonna witness to anybody when I knew nothing about what was up with LIFE on the planet?
I sat there kinda stewing, she was sensitive enough to pick up on it & thought I didn't like the music. I really did.
I vowed at that moment NEVER to let myself fall that far out of touch again.
The moral of the story is yes, I missed a whole part of the 80's while toiling in Way World. I've had to do "double time" work to get caught up socially. Unfortunately that phenomena is not unique to TWI, but it certainly exists there, BIG time.
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ex10
Yeah, I confess to not having read this whole thread. So shoot me.
:)-->
But I work in a profession where customer service is a big part of what I do. (OK, I guess I should explain that I actually got halfway to a master's degree in counseling before I took my current job.)
Once we draw the line in the sand, there is no going back. And it ain't worth it.
In my profession, not only as counselor, but as an interior designer who has to put up with alot of people stuff, I have learned that you really have to give people room to CHANGE THEIR MINDS.
It happens all the time, and it's not a crime.
:)-->
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sirguessalot
god, ex10, this really jumped off the page.
i just "had to" respond to the inspiration
to me, "giving room" = "making space"
like "being clearER" in a "clearing"
and so...to both work and play at this behaviour of "giving of room"...
...as an art form
...as a lifestyle
...as a "religion," if you will
...is indeed a higher calling
in that...we are already always being called to such a way of being with each other
spiritually
evolutionarily
whatever you wanna call it
and it is at least an entire step beyond what we learn in The Way (and ilk)
in fact, we already kinda do it, here, now, at the GSC
which is why this place is sooo cool (as in refreshing)
tho, another step beyond, i believe, comes when we are not simply falling into such a wonderful open space
but rather, when we consciously, intentionally, specifically, curiously, and playfully, JUMP OFF into such a place together...
...when we more deeply know that we are doing it...and why...
...this it what changes things a bit more
there is a descending move to this idea, in all of us
coming "down to earth" from a higher place (no, not "higher" as in elitism, but "higher" as in a place of love and openness and general practiced focused "allowingness," if you will)
ok, thanks a mil for the inspire
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Catcup
The Way International never gave us opportunity to do that-- change our minds, that is, unless we were changing our minds to agree with them.
After leaving such a fossilized environment, it is sometimes difficult for us to allow ourselves and each other the space and time (and it takes both) to see the need to, and be able to change. We've had our wings clipped and cramped up inside an extremely limited prison and it takes time to work out the kinks.
We should expect a little pain involved from time to time-- ours, and that of the other person. Sometimes both at once.
It's normal and natural, when rediscovering our selves and our rights as human beings, concepts that were denied us for decades within the mental bonds of a cult.
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waterbuffalo
"Factor in the twi deficit," HC, I love it, hehe.
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