Per igotout (from the PFAL was stolen thread from the archives):
This might shed light on some of the thinking and belief among the followers of The Way at the time in earlier years. In 1974 when I first took the PFAL class I remember being fascinated by the four crucified. Rev. Anderson (Limb leader) at break showed us the Bullinger bible article. But it was promoted as "See, here is another gentleman named E.W. Bullinger who also came to to the same conclusions as Dr. Wierwille." This amazed me because it was promoted as if these two men arrived at this conclusion independently of each other.
As I inquired further, some of the older grads explained to me that after the 1942 promise, "Dr." did lots of research. He apparently stumbled on Bullingers works and was amazed because it here was a man who came to the same conclusions on God's word that he did in his reasearch.
The story goes that "the Dr." stayed up all night reading Bullinger's works because he was so thrilled to find someone whose research lined up with his. What was a 20 year old to do...? I was hooked.
Job says "Oh, that mine enemies had written a book"
I say, "Oh, that mine enemies had been posted on the internet".
Additional insight into VPW's/TWI's fraudulent misrepresentations, lying, plagiarism, etc. from the PFAL was Stolen thread:
Per FreshAir 99:
From what I remember, B.G. Leonard was rarely credited with any of vpw's learning. Perhaps, because vpw copied SO MUCH of it and didn't want to be exposed with fraudulent claims of "God teaching him (vpw) directly."
If vpw would have been forthright about coming forward with this information and COMPILING THE PFAL CLASS FROM THESE MEN'S WORKS....then, to me, it wouldn't be as big a deal. BUT...... to pawn himself off like THE ONLY MAN OF GOD SINCE THE FIRST CENTURY TO HAVE SUCH TRUTH......it turns my stomach.
Per Dot Matrix:
But still there is that God promise thing about being taught the word like it was not taught since the First Century -- and yet THERE IT WAS in print -- After the First Century pre-PFAL
"...it is a fact (NOT my opinion) that the good doctor spent a few years counseling me about the love of god and the way of a man with a maiden. i've told this too many times. he one-on-one taught me about how wrong it was for me to have been sexually abused as a kid and why he should show me what "real" love was all about
okay, i told him i could NOT handle this stuff and he went on to why i should be meek and open to deliverance
i finally got delivered ha ha ha ha ha ha when he finally got me but i was not in my right state of mind. after that time he would not give me the time of day. probably because it's no fun being with a dead (well almost unconscious) person
i myself honestly do not care about bg leonard. if i NEVER meet a man of god again, it will be too soon. would this have happened to me under leonard's "ministry"???? how the heck do i know? i never met the guy
as far as the "no wonder wierwille kids don't come on here" or however that was said (it's not a direct quote), i could care less about that. i do care for them as fellow human beings and abuse victims survivors..."
Per TheEvan (from the B.G. Leonard archival thread):
"...But I can state, just from a biblical perspective, that Wierwille was not a true minister in any sense of the word. He disqualified himself on pretty much every count. I think his behavior wholly invalidates everything he did and he deserves no credit at all. I say that in the same sense that Jim Jones' actions actions makes him, upon consideration, evil. Not a minister of the gospel. Yet Jones said/did plenty of good things or so many folks wouldn't have followed him. Yet, I fear no contradiction in calling him evil. Similarly, I fear no contradiction in calling Wierwille evil. I don't care how many people got healed, met the Lord, yada yada. By the definitions of the VERY Bible that Wierwille worshipped he was not a minister of the gospel..."
The personal conduct of vp and twi leaders just isn`t IN the nature of any true minister or spiritual leader....for the genuine man of the spirit......it truly is an inside thing that makes such actions not only unapealing, but unthinkable as well.
It quite simply is the difference between a genuine and the counterfit.
Per Dot Matrix (from the B.G. Leonard archival thread):
"...I DO think VPW was the counterfeit.
Maybe I do not KNOW his heart but let's see:
He was a minister of a church and left because of an affair.
He wanted to start his own ministry so he plagiarized other people's work to start a ministry.
He taught the first few corps first hand that he had "needs to get met". Virtually almost all the ordained women in the ministry first had to service VPW. If they were honest and able to deal with what they have done, they would swing by and tell us. So, he ruined all those girls lives while feeding his depraved sexual appetites.
(One example, an 18 year old girl was in the corps it was the 2nd or 3rd, I think. VPW used to meet her at a special place. She was convinced she was special to him. She was young and easily led. One day, she went to their special place and there VPW was "sexually healing" another young corps girl. Both of these women are ordained. I got the story from the first girls' own mouth, when she tried to recruit me into the sex stuff!)
He assaulted EX. He invited me to the coach and was naked asking for "favors". When I refused he set out to ruin me.
He lied to the believers. I know of at least one meeting where we drove through horrid snow to get to this mandatory meeting. HE cancelled the last teaching and fellowship because he said he had important things God wanted him to attend to -- he was going to sexually "heal" a friend of mine.
The ministry paid for abortions when girls themselves in trouble with leadership. One corps girl had SEVEN abortions paid for by ministry money.
A HUGE respected leader in TWI told me VPW convinced a woman he could bless her and her daughter sexually. They went to him together.
VPW had us gathered around him one night and shared about how in Africa the father deflowers the daughter. Then, he said we should teach our children not to be afraid of our bodies and we could touch their nipples and show them how they hardened. Then, shared an example. Promoting incest..."
Per Shazdancer (from the B.G. Leonard archival thread):
"...Perhaps the problem is what we think of as "evil." I used to think it was like in the movies -- shifty-eyed, grimacing, everything done with a snarl, never a kind word to anybody. Ebeneezer Scrooge meets Dracula, ya know?
But the face of evil is not like that. The truly evil person shows kindness regularly, especially when it costs him very little. He justifies his life to himself that way -- if he were only evil always, he could not stand to live with himself. He is cheerful and upbeat, confident, well-mannered and well-groomed, drawing people with his charisma. He fools others about what he really stands for, and more importantly, he fools himself. But keeping up this charade takes a lot of energy, so sooner or later, his selfish intents will emerge.
Those who he has so easily put on pedestals of admiration he just as easily demeans and discards. People, to him, are not to be loved, they are to be used, for admiration, and sex, and money, and power. He looks for people who are gentle, kind, forgiving, and nurturing, because they will overlook his evil the longest. (Exy, are ya listening?) On the fringes of his acquaintance are those whose reputations boost his -- in his inner circle are those from whom he can take what he wants.
So while the masses are lauding him to the skies for his wonderful deeds among them, he is privately writing them off as beneath him, as he is the Enlightened One. And he rides on the wave of his reputation to victimize the chosen few..."
Per Hope R. (from the B.G. Leonard archival thread):
"...I'm going back to page 3 to Shazzy's post because it really hit me between the eyes...
quote:
VPW offered the works of others in The Way bookstore, but he conveniently left out those specific works he stole from.
and
Wierwille never offered B.G. Leonard's work in The Way bookstore as far as I know, and I go back to 1971. Why did he offer some of the works of Kenyon, Bullinger, etc.? I would guess that he simply wanted to flesh out his bookstore and earn more profit! When he had written more of his own stuff, I noticed the works of others just sort of dried up.
That is such a great observation. Why didn't he have Stiles and Leonard's books in the bookstore? They probably weren't as academic as Kenyon, Bullinger and Lamsa - us hippies would have figured out the incredible similarities! I remember reading "How to Enjoy the Bible" and thinking the teachings were a lot like PFAL, just more complicated. I never thought about plagiarism because in PFAL, VP made sure everyone got a look at the "Four Crucified" appendix in "The Companion Bible" and Bullinger was verbally credited.
There was also some fuzzy stories about VP figuring all this stuff out himself and then discovering Bullinger and others later. How amazing! What a MOG!
He gave just enough credit to others for me to believe that that was all he got from others. Does that make sense..."
Per wyteduv58 (from the BG Leonard archival thread):
"...Dear Dot, I know what you mean about not letting us be negative when something devestating happens, we need to talk about it.
I had a beautiful son that was hit and killed by a car in 1980.
He was only one month shy of his 10th birthday and I was devastated, I needed to talk about it to someone so desparately and because of the way-brained a$$ hole leaders that thought they were councellors my need to talk was snuffed out. I was told to go WOW and then into the corpse. That was supposed to heal me they said. So like good little wayfer I did it and suppressed my grief in front of others, cuz most of them didn't have a brain between all of them, but they were leaders and you don't question leaders, after all they have all the answers don't they? You know what one of them told me? He said my God let my boy die because he might grow up to be a homo or murderer or something worse, so God killed him to save him?
I can remember going out in the woods by myself behind our wow home and screaming at the top of my lungs just to releive the mental anguish I was going thru.
And the Corpse was even worse, trying to act happy all the time when I just wanted to scream at everyone "my son is dead" and you tell me to get over it like he was a dog or something.
When we got back home it was like walking into a nightmare, just seeing our house and neighbors and the "ghost" of my baby.
My mental health took a nose dive, but I still had to keep it in, then just over 2 years ago my little 4 year old grandaughter died after heart surgery. That did it for me. I went into a catatonic state and stayed there for about 3 months.
Thanks to a good "natural man" psyciatrist I've been able to work thru the oain and learn to handle it. Not get over it, that will never happen. You just learn how to handle it.
Now I'm able to help my son try to get his life back togather because I know what he is going thru and he will NOT have to do it alone like I did.
In my opinion any one of those so called counsellors in twi should be prosecuted for all the damage they did to so many of us. Not just me. Alot of people went thru something similar and got the same treatment I got which was nothing.
I just thank my God and my wonderful husband who stuck with me even when leaders told him to divorce me cuz they thought I was nuts.....well duh I wonder why? My hubby stuck with me and made sure I got the help I needed. I'm still going to my "shrink". and probably will for a long time. But I did get myself back when I left twi and even got a sense of humor to boot. I know this is a sad story but its true and I can finally talk about it without feeling guilty for being negative. You keep up the good work and speak your mind. Love ya girl..."
Per TheEvan (from the BG. Leonard archival thread):
"...Yes, Leonard was there, along with Mrs. Leonard. But not at the [vpw's]funeral, but that next Racca Ages. Or mebbe it was just for Score week. Mrs. Leonard said it was surreal. They put them up in a trailer on grounds. They had a session in the BRG hosted byPam Craley, the historian. She asked them questions of interest to Way history which they answered kindly and circumspectly. BG's answers were more preaching than simply story telling. I asaw a video of this session.
There was a steady stream of people going to the trailer at all hours for healing. When the Great Fore Head heard of this a sentry was posted there to keep people away! So they'd sneak in the back door. I recall there were lots of health problems at HQ in those days. Hmmm.
This was the very Score Week during which the Fore Skin went ballistic on Leonard & the region leader. I'm hoping the Leonard's were already..."
"...I've seen the tape of the Leonard's at TWI as well. It's sometimes (usually?) shown during "the Gifts of the Spirit" class. I think this practice is done when classes are mostly made up of ex-wayfers, I'm not sure.
My understanding is that Martindale ordered the tape to be destroyed because it was full of lies and it wasn't "on the word". (Brother Leonard kept referring to the TWI-verbaged "manifestations" as the biblically-accurate, "gifts of the Spirit".) Only problem is, Craig forgot about the tape that was given to the Leonard's when they left TWI the day after the taping. (Warned of God according to Sis. Evelyn) Anyway, upon leaving TWI the Leonard's conducted a class in Montana or Idaho I think, and didn't return to Brownsville for about three weeks. When they returned, their house had been broken into and ransacked, though nothing was found to be missing. Amazing Coincidence..."
BINGO!!, shaz--you nailed it...how come vp couldn't a just pointed to Kenyon, Stiles, Leonard, Bullinger, et al, and said "read their stuff, it's great, let's go teach people about God and His Son"???? Why, you ask?? I'll tell you--no adulation and worship in that for vp--nope, none at all...No "just write The Teacher" stuff, no first apostle since the first century malarkey... no "Ladies and gentlemen, the founder and President of The Way International, Inc., DR. Victor Paul Wierwille!!!!" intros, none of that smoke and mirrors baffle a-tall...
Per shazdancer:
It is all about power. Narcissists want to be heard, they don't want to listen. They want to align themselves with authority to impress others -- who better to be aligned with than God Almighty? They want to be admired, so they create a persona of goodness and expertise. They prefer to take shortcuts to power, hence the plagiarism.
It seems to me another strategic reason for VPW's use of the term, "Father," {as in, "Father in the 'Word'"} has to do with manipulative exploitation of the transference phenomenon. This was just another way utilized by VPW to induce unhealthy dependency on VPW specifically & TWI in general.
Sigmund Freud first identified the psychological process of transference and brought it into what is now modern day psychotherapy. As a therapist he noticed that people had strong feelings and fantasies about him that had no basis in reality. But Freud died before there was such a thing as "rock and roll." Transference has become a more modern concept since Freud. In fact, many people believe transference is actually something that happens in life - and not just psychotherapy.
What is Transference? During transference, people turn into a "biological time machine". A nerve is struck when someone says or does something that reminds you of your past. This creates an "emotional time warp" that transfers your emotional past and your psychological needs into the present. In less poetic terms, a transference reaction means that you are reacting to someone in terms of what you need to see, you are afraid of or what you see when you know very little about the person. This all happens without you knowing why you feel and react the way you do.
What Is Projection? Some people refer to transference as a "projection." In this case you are projecting your own feelings, emotions or motivations into another person without realizing your reaction is really more about you than it is about the other person. In a life filled with transference, your job may be "the family reunion you are avoiding and you are forced to go to each day." In other cases of projection, your girlfriend may remind you of all the irritating things your mother did when you were growing up. Love at first sight is usually a projection – especially if it ends in disaster and you could have seen it coming.
Harmful Patterns. Transference reactions are caused by unmet emotional needs, neglect, seductions and other abuses that transpired when you were a child. In some forms of psychotherapy, a therapist will intentionally create or allow transference to form. When done properly, this helps a therapist to understand and find a connection between the patient's past and how the patient misreads the present and may react ineffectively. Once you discover a transference pattern, you can chose to respond in terms of what is really happening instead of what happened 20 or 30 years ago. People who don't recognize the difference between past and present can end up in the same messed–up relationships over and over or with the same problem over and over.
Extreme Transference. In an extreme form of transference, you may conclude that someone is an awful or evil person when in fact that person's favorite food and television show reminds you of an emotionally abusive mother and a sexually abusive brother you have been trying to forget since childhood. That's an example of negative transference. A warm, supportive and kind person could remind you of what you are missing and wanting in their life. You might then idealize that person and begin to see him or her as wonderful beyond belief. The idea is that you will react to your therapist based on your experience with another person. This is usually a parent that the patient has an unresolved conflict with. In extreme cases a patient will become overly attached to their therapist or they will enter into and create conflicts without realizing how.
Transference Melt-Downs. Extreme forms of transference can turn into a full-blown obsession if it is not dealt with. Transference "meltdowns" can result in accidents, dangerous choices, nightmares, fantasies, stalking someone, psychotic reactions and sometimes violence. While it does not happen frequently in therapy, it can happen in the patient's personal life.
How Can You Tell? How do you know you are having a "transference reaction"? It's not always easy, but you probably are if you know very little about a therapist (or anyone) and you are having a powerful reaction that is not justifiable to a reasonable person. It can be difficult if the patient can rationalize their reactions. Having a strong sexual attraction to your therapist is almost always a transference reaction, unless of course your therapist is actually hitting on you – and they're not supposed to do that on purpose. Intentionally seducing a vulnerable patient in sick and wrong! In fact that applies to any health-related profession or any employer-employee relationship. Becoming angry at you therapist as if they were a parent is a good sign that there is a transference reaction. Termination of treatment pre-maturely is another sign of transference - unless the therapist is just doing a bad job.
Counter-Transference. Therapists and other health care professionals can also have transference reactions while treating a patient. It's a two way street. Counter-transference is basically a therapist's "emotional time warp" around their patient's transference. In other words, counter-transference is a therapist's counter- reaction. That's why some therapists think they are falling in love with their patients. That's also why older guys become obsessed with younger female employees they barely know.
Ethics And The Law. A therapist, counselor and even a physician could possibly lose their license for seducing or sleeping with a patient they are treating. Trying to seduce an employee on the job may result in a successful lawsuit. You can also sue a licensed mental health professional for sleeping with you if you are their patient. And employers must follow the law. On the other hand, unlicensed therapist can do almost whatever they want and there may be nothing anyone can do about it. It's hard to sue an employer and win. Unlicensed therapists do not have a "duty" to act within a standard of practice. Employers may not know the law.
Unseen Dangers. Transference can sometimes produce a powerful love or a destructive hatred based on a complete illusion. There can be a loud and painful thud when people act on their transference reactions and the bubble finally bursts. In addition to being embarrassed, it can also backfire. Sometimes people will end up stalking, assaulting or killing someone. Please don't kill yourself or anyone because of some transference from your childhood. And if you think your therapist, or an employer for that matter, is seducing you, tell your therapist, or contact a licensed therapist to talk about it.
Should I or Shouldn't I Risk Transference. Transference is really difficult to recognize, deal with and understand, but it is incredibly interesting. I tend to avoid people who are "oozing" with transference potential. Working with transference, or creating transference in therapy can make a therapist look mystical and brilliant. Cult therapies are based in part on generating positive transference to control and manipulate people. I avoid treatment approaches that artificially inflate my ego, would allow me to control anyone and make me feel powerful. But not everyone feels the way I do about transference. Some counselors and therapists love the power and think they can handle it. A therapist must face transference issues and encourage patients to deal with them as much as possible. In some cases a patient is not able to deal with transference issues and will terminate therapy. While it is regrettable and potentially a lost opportunity, it must be supported.
In my opinion the 'exactness factor' [as mentioned by Pat Roberge on the thread with this phrase] fits the description that Dr. Robert J. Lifton referred to as "sacred science.'"
The following paragraphs are from Lifton's Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism…
Embolding, underlining, italics, [ ], & blue highlights are my additions for emphasis or clarification / jkb.
The "Sacred Science"
The totalist milieu maintains an aura of sacredness around its basic dogma[ie, the 'Word' of 'God' is the 'Will' of 'God,' & the 'Man of God,' our 'Father in the Word,' miraculously 'explains' the TWI-defined Word without so much as an hint of PI], holding it out as an ultimate moral vision[ie 'Word over the World'] for the ordering of human existence. This sacredness is evident in the prohibition (whether or not explicit) against the questioning of basic assumptions, and in the reverence which is demanded for the originators of the 'Word,' the present bearers of the 'Word,' and the 'Word' itself.
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While thus transcending ordinary concerns of logic, however, the milieu at the same time makes an exaggerated claim of airtight logic, of absolute "scientific" precision [the 'Word' works with a mathematical exactness & scientific precision, the 'Word' fits like a hand in a glove, etc.]. Thus the ultimate moral vision becomes an ultimate science; and the man who dares to criticize it, or to harbor even unspoken alternative ideas, becomes not only immoral and irreverent, but also "unscientific." In this way, the philosopher kings[eg, VPW, LCM, RFR] of modern ideological totalism reinforce their authority by claiming to share in the rich and respected heritage of natural science.
The assumption here is not so much that man can be God, but rather that man's ideas can be God: that an absolute science of ideas (and implicitly, an absolute science of man) exists, or is at least very close to being attained; that this science can be combined with an equally absolute body of moral principles; and that the resulting doctrine is true for all men at all times. Although no ideology goes quite this far in overt statement, such assumptions are implicit in totalist practice.
At the level of the individual, the totalist sacred science can offer much comfort and security. Its appeal lies in its seeming unification of the mystical and the logical modes of experience (in psychoanalytic terms, of the primary and secondary thought processes). For within the framework of the sacred science, and sweeping, non-rational "insights." Since the distinction between the logical and the mystical is, to begin with, artificial and man-made, an opportunity for transcending it can create an extremely intense feeling of truth. But the posture of unquestioning faith - both rationally and non-rationally derived - is not easy to sustain, especially if one discovers that the world of experience is not nearly as absolute as the sacred science claims it to be.
Yet so strong a hold can the sacred science achieve over his mental processes that if one begins to feel himself attracted to ideas which either contradict or ignore it, he may become guilty and afraid. His quest for knowledge is consequently hampered, since in the name of science he is prevented from engaging in the receptive search for truth which characterizes the genuinely scientific approach. And his position is made more difficult by the absence, in a totalist environment, of any distinction between the sacred and the profane: there is no thought or action which cannot be related to the sacred science.
To be sure, one can usually find areas of experience outside its immediate authority; but during periods of maximum totalist activity (like thought reform) any such areas are cut off, and there is virtually no escape from the milieu's ever-pressing edicts and demands.
Whatever combination of continued adherence, inner resistance, or compromise co-existence the individual person adopts toward this blend of counterfeit science and back-door religion, it represents another continuous pressure toward personal closure, toward avoiding, rather than grappling with, the kinds of knowledge and experience necessary for genuine self-expression and for creative development.
Dr. Margaret Singer, Ph.D., explains another aspect of the 'exactness factor' or 'sacred science' in her book, Cults in Our Midst.
Naturalistic trance induction demonstrates how ordinary words, conversational style, and careful pacing & leading of an interaction [eg, of a TWI teaching session] can bring one person to the point of being able to 'secure the cooperation' of another person without using pressure, high-demand announcements, or commands [ie, not physically coercive, but definitely coercive packaged persuasion].
Even when trances per se are not produced, the activities of skilled cult leaders capitalize on the essential ingredients of pacing and leading, exploiting positive transference, & making indirect suggestions, all of which are central to the process and experience of trance [reveries, bedazzlement, and transfixion, etc.].
The techniques can seem innocuous, at first. Some of them - guided imagery, for instance - may actually be familiar from a relaxation class or a self-help audiocassette. In the wrong hands, however, these techniques can do an astonishing amount of harm.
"Trance-induction," Singer explains, is brought about by "a high central focus of attention or concentration [eg,by TWI on very detailed topics, such as 4 crucified, the day JC died, the 4 sessions of hyperfocus on ICor12-14, the AC definitions of the manifestations with all of the supportive scriptural narrative, etc.] which leads to diminished peripheral awareness. It can be achieved through various methods, and it's a means by which one person gets the complete attention of another."
Closed-eye exercises, a form of guided imagery, can be one of the most powerful trance-induction tools used in workshops. With the sense of sight deadened, customers are more attuned to the voice of the seminar leader. While this sounds innocent - sports psychologists enlist Olympic athletes in guided imagery exercises - the potential for abuse is great when the object of the exercise is not, say, running a faster 100-meter dash.
Take a few days without proper rest, add a regimen of closed-eye exercises, and anyone can become vulnerable to suggestion, "You're simply flooded with emotion," observes Singer. "The trainers usually get you to think of all your most powerful memories, under the guise of somehow conquering your past." After several days of being "dragged down into the pits", says Singer, "the final day of exercises is usually designed to pump you up. By this time, customers usually just sort of drool and follow the leader. A false sense of community and camaraderie has developed. By now, they do everything they can to give you the 'warm fuzzies,' so that you'll sign up for the next course."
Per Skyrider (from the Branch Wierwillian thread):
A more accurate title for vpw would be......Father of Branch Wierwillians
With this title, three aspects could be enhanced in such an entitlement:
(1) Veepee fathered the movement
(2) Veepee's beloved "way tree"concept is held intact
(3) Veepee's name and geneology is front and center
It certainly is more appropriate than.......Father of The Word.
Veepee was no founder, or father of "The Word."
Veepee plagerized others to even start his work.
Veepee pulled verses out of context to emphasize points and disguise others.
What year did this ABSURD..."father of the word" title grow legs in wayworld? I seem to recall it coming out on a corps night in 1980 or thereabouts? Anyone know?
Heck, wasn't it enough to swallow vp's self-endorsed title from pfal......."The Teacher." (???) And later......"Man of God for Our Day and Time." Now, some ten years later.........THE IDOLATRY IN TWI is ripened to the point of calling their founder, "Father of The Word."
What next???........"Father of All Great Enlightenment"..... or "Most Wonderful Counselor and Mediator."
Wierwille ALLOWED this idolatry to walk thru twi. In all my years in twi, I never once heard him publically renounce this adulation, this idolatry.
Guess I just expected more from "The Teacher".......who had "The revelation from God"........to teach "The Word"......like it hasn't been taught since "The First Century"......and "The Man of God".......would pass "The Mantle"........to "The Right Reverend LC Martindale".......which would help to establish "The Rightly-Divided Word"........in "The Way Ministry".......as "The True Household".......and move us into "The Promised Land".......of "The Prevailing Word."
{per justloafing} wonder if they believed any thing they were teaching. I think it was a buisness and all the bad things that happened to people was for their enjoyment. It also seems they did not care who they hurt.
JustLoafing, I have often wondered the same thing. It seems to me that if they really did believe what they were teaching that they would be scared sh1tless about having to explain to God why they have done the things they've done and destroyed the lives they've destroyed. They don't seem to care.
19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions
21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
We KNOW vee pee, craig and many other leadership have these on their record.
I believe they worshipped themselves and the Bible, but others would disagree with that.
Hatred - We were taught to hate anyone who rejected TWI, left TWI or belonged to another church. Heck, at one time craig had us practically hating Jesus and especially any song to or about him.
Discord - they are pros at this - among families, married couples, among other religions....
Fits of rage - "God won't spit in your direction!" How many first hand accounts of vee pee and craiggers going off on tirades here? Too many to count.
There's so much more here and so many examples of their lives reflecting all of these "acts of the sinful nature" - even the most worshipful vee pee apologist has to admit to this unless they are just fooling themselves.
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.
25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
Patience, Kindness and Goodness are things one would be hard pressed to find in any TWI leadership in the upper echelon.
They LOVE the upper seats! They LOVE the adoration! They LOVE having servants, but I don't think those are things meant by these verses.
They are faithful to ruining marriages and lives. Faithful to spying out the liberties in Christ that their follwers have, but again, I don't think that's what these verses are talking about.
Hmmmmm, seems pretty clear to me which "fruit" we were exposed to.....
Per Free Soul (from the Legacy thread):
Just my two cents worth....
I don't believe for a minute that VP "couldn't stop his behavior" - that would imply trying to stop. Sexual deviancy coupled with massive arrogance and a system that leaves both unchecked and even legitimized is certainly not some poor soul who messed up & struggled to get help. Oh no, it was purposeful, planned, secretive, calculated behavior over a long period of time.
Also, I do not believe that VP or LCM were "seeking" & never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. A seeking heart is a humble heart. What they sought was justification to continue what they had already chosen to do. If I had to sum up TWI's legacy in a nutshell, & this is just my opinion, it would be "betrayal of the many by the arrogant few". Which makes them not too different than most politicians; I just expect a higher standard from those who call themselves leaders of God's people.
As for whether these leaders are born again Christians or not, well, I'm not even going to go there. None of us are perfect, & none of us knows what is between that person and God. So I won't speculate on their status as Christians. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. I'd rather be around loving people than people who can reel off verses in that mechanical way that discourages true intimate fellowship.
I think a lot of the debate that goes on here is due to feelings of anger that are the result of the betrayal. It's hard to deal with all that anger; what does one do with it? Scream into a pillow? Drink? Argue with those who defend the betrayers? All of the above, and more? And then, having to learn to trust again, if indeed that can be done. Some will find that easier to do than others, of course. TWI did not originate my trust issues, but they finished it.
Dr. Wierwille told people that without broadening their sexual activities beyond marriage, they'd never be able to handle the things of God.
LCM did, who else?
Per excathedra:
the biggest reason it hits my nerve is because i wasn't a mistress - the term actually (for me), in this context, is insane
please don't be offended but i don't care much about the bible, adultery, fornication point of view
my thing is about being a teenage girl, freshman in college, and having a "pope" come in the flesh at the 12th session, after hearing about him for months and months as the greatest most loving man of god and "father," oh god do i have to go on ?
do you have a couch i could lie on....
anyway, i experienced a few years of handholding and counseling on the coach, and spilled my guts, and he did tell me how much god did not intend for me to be sexually mistreated as a child
but THEN he said he could heal me with the REAL love of god
so you see, he phrucked with my head
BUT even THEN i didn't buy it (thank you, mom) and ran away crying and confused
but eventually he got his way ONCE because i was not in my right mind
he never came after me again after that time. it was either the conquest thing or i was such a horrible lay - most likely the latter since i didn't participate
as far as sins and all that crap, i could care less
i just want you to know what the guy was really like
thanks i'm sorry i emphasized the word "ONCE" because you know this guy was slick and i don't want to appear better than any other gal EVER
there should be no shame when you're taken over by a spiritual leader
i think it's my own shame that made me use that word "once"
@(%* him and everyone who looks like him
i'll talk to god in that hereafter about sin. until then i don't give a sh it
one more thing, i have been "sinful" and such in other relationships
Per justloafing:
I am with Exi on this. Throw out the bible verses here. If vp had any guts he would not have touched anyone. It is a story like Exi's that still makes me think they(twi) does not believe a damn thing of what they teach. It is all for power over people and the love of money. Oh and lets not forget a piece of "tail" when ever they saw a person like Exie that needed help. OMG Exie he showed you the love of God. No wonder they wont let people(exway) go visit his grave site. I would pi$$ on it. Then find LCM's house and put dog poop in a bag and set it on fire and watch him come out and stomp on it.
Just totally disgusting and wrong. For you bible thumpers out there. Take the good book and throw it away and think with your heads and quit making up excuses for these trashy foot people. Quit trying to defend the wrong.
Per tomtuttle1:
Is it really possible that some people honestly do not, or cannot, see common sense in their hearts??
The older I get, the more I realize how much I don't know, and the more I question the notion that most people, when presented with either life or death, would choose life.
To not FEEL for another person, to not even CARE about what you do TO someone else and how it effects them, is in my estimation worse than the "conscience seared with a hot iron"...
Yeah, God IS great. Some people s uck. As VP would say, "Choose your ruts carefully..."
Per rascal:
Act 2 When I found out that I was pregnant on the wow field, I left I assuming of course that I was a disgrace.... and notified my lc that I wouldn`t be entering the corpes that fall....assuming of course that my actions were reprehensible, shamefull, that I had behaved in a truly immoral fashion.
Well I was found and asked to come to the limb....I couldn`t even hold my head up I just sat there staring at the floor mute in my shame.
The astonishing thing was that the lc didn`t seem to even think it was a big deal....said that having sex wasn`t the sin...however it WOULD be, if I allowed the consequences to prevent me from keeping my committment to God... now THAT would be the shamefull and inexcusable thing. I must not break that vow of service to God.
Everything was to be forgiven I could rejoin my wow family and continue in the corpes program just as soon as the little problem was *delt* with.
I was so stunned, it never dawned on me that I hadn`t completely disgraced myself. That was the first incling I had that sex outside of marriage wasn`t frowned on.
Act don`t EVEN get me started on how angry I am that twi insisted that God almighty who had done everything for me .......desired/required for me to kill that baby in order to keep a promise to him.
A few years later down the road, I was now married, my husband and I called our lc to anounce that I was pregnant .... I guess we must have sounded rather shell shocked....because he greeted the news with the rather odd comment of .... .. well it`s a *keeper* isnt it?
In hind sight it seems so calloused to casually refer ones baby as a *keeper* verses one that you would throw away.....but I think that was the mindset taught due to the *first breath* doctrine.
Per WordWolf:
Well,
this was hardly a public, "official" statement.
vpw carefully chose who he said this to.
A number of the top people heard him,
a smaller number was complicit in some degree,
even fewer did it.
Of course that "few people" was FAR too many.
Rozilla herself was one of the people "complicit"
in that she helped vpw get ahold of the women.
How vpw acted on this HIMSELF was varied.
The most basic way he did this was on-grounds.
He had a home, he had an office, and he had a
camper "office" set up for sleeping.
He had arranged a place for sleeping when his
house was RIGHT THERE.
(AND he could have driven one of the golf carts
around if he thought it was too far, and he
considered one of the carts "MY STUFF.")
vpw had all corps applicants submit an
autobiographical (life-story) report called
"from birth to the corps."
Many people NOW think that he read these
reports and singled out reports of women
who had suffered sexual abuse in the past.
They think this because it is known that
previous sexual victims are often easier
for other sexual predators to victimize
later. They also think this because the
results WERE that the women who
reported this in their reports WERE
consistently primary targets for his
sexual predation.
So,
women were told they were on-grounds
to be their best for God, and this man
had a special connection to God
(God spoke to him and gave him
imaginary snow-twice and so on),
and thus was a trustworthy Christian
and NOT a sexual predator.
Then,
a number of "odd coincidences" would
happen. A woman would be singled
out coincidentally, and be called into
vpw's camper. One of a number of
things would happen then, but the
ultimate goal was for vpw to rape them.
A number showed reluctance or ran out.
So, he refined his technique.
He started serving drugged drinks to
women, and they started passing out
alone with him in the room,
and waking up with that disgusting man
doing disgusting things.
There were other scenarios, but that
was the MOST COMMON. When he was
on the road, it was different.
========
Now then,
he also had "cleanup crews."
Some people existed on staff-
or as Region or Limb leaders
or their wives-
who would look out for his
victims, and stop them from
talking. Those who seemed
ready to talk despite that
were kicked out of twi
IMMEDIATELY-including
off-grounds if they were
ON grounds-
and IMMEDIATELY her
reputation was savaged.
Everyone was told they
were "possessed" and no
one was to ever contact
her or communicate with
her in any way.
That having been said,
despite victims having come forth,
and some people having witnessed the
"cleanup crew" in operation in progress,
there are STILL some people who will claim
it's all a lie.
Of course,
this, in and of itself, does not affect his
doctrine.
HOWEVER,
given his record of self-serving doctrine--
like "all the women in the kingdom
belong to the king", "no condemnation",
teaching AGAINST the tithe when he was
in a denomination but teaching FOR
the tithe when the money was coming
to him,
it DOES mean that each doctrine SHOULD
be examined for self-interest.
Further,
the premeditated nature of what he did
(he had to plan a lot to arrange it)
indicates he lacks the proper character
to serve in ANY capacity among Christians
OR of trust of any kind.
THAT doesn't affect his doctrine-
but I don't respect conmen and rapists,
and I don't heed their doctrine.
I can't trust him when he opens his mouth.
Sometimes he MIGHT speak truth,
but I'd rather get truth from a RELIABLE
source.
Per WordWolf:
QUOTE(doojable @ Dec 22 2005, 08:29 PM)
Bramble, You wrote:
"Back in the early eighties I remember an interim corps girl(11th corps I think) tell me there was a passage in the gospels where Jesus came to a town and the women ministered to him sexually"
It seems to me that when LCM did athletes of the Spirit that he spoke about Jesus allowing women to touch him. (Annointing heim with oil, kssing his feet, using their hair to wipe his feet, etc.) He insinuated that they might have been attracted to him physically - but I think that the way LCM taught allowed a lot of people to fill in the blanks. I was in the 11th corps and I didn't hear that teaching other than the way I just gave it to you.
Oddly enough, during the Corinthians Corps night teachings either Dr or W*lter C&mmings taught explicitly that it was WRONG for a man to touch a woman other than his wife in a sexual manner.
Now, I wonder how people got around that......?"
Oh, that's easy!
They taught BOTH at DIFFERENT TIMES!
That way, an innocent hears the SECOND one, and says
"they never taught women were to prostitute themselves to the mog"
and hardcore apologists could say
"Those of you who heard this and still thought they taught
the other thing are lying or mistaken. How COULD they teach
ONE thing and the OPPOSITE?"
Worked pretty effectively, too.
Some people are a decade out or more and still saying it.
Per GrouchoMarxJr:
BikerBabe...Better be careful about the offer with the cuffs and horsewhip...I suspect that some of these wierwille apologists might actually enjoy this type of treatment...afterall, look at the degradation and humiliation that they subject themselves to by worshipping the cornfield preacher.
It seems apparent to me that Vic, besides other things, was a serial abuser. Seeking young, naive girls to either seduce or drug...There's no defense of his actions and those who try, are sad little people.
Per HCW:
You can speak positively of the positive things VP did or said without causing "even the slightest discomfort" to ANYONE he abused. You didn't because you JUST DON'T WANT TO. Any and ALL of his victims are fully aware of the fact that VP had some qualities in his life. You and the list of VPW supporters you list have demonstrated a disturbing pattern of behavior that allows you to personally attack anyone and everyone you feel had attacks VPW.
VPW, himself (who I knew personally) publickly admitted all over the country that last vialble years of his life,
"I WISH I WERE THE MAN I KNOW TO BE."
Just what in the world do YOU think he was referring to? The indominable sin nature that exists in ALL men?
BULLSH!%
He knew EXACTLY what he was talking about and to WHOM. However, it was, as the song says, "too much too little too late."... for too many.
Per GarthP2000:
Johniam and Allan both provide the classic examples of the kind of fake and fraudulant religion, the kind that makes big promises of deliverance and power, and yet winds up screwing people. Yet when their fraudulance is called for what it is, they get anal as hell, and act like they are persecuted by none less than the devil himself.
Since VPW is the best that they can provide for an example of ((cough)) 'godly leadership' that they remain blindly loyal to, they can do nothing else than lash out and degrade the detractors, even including the people who were hurt by VPW himself. ... Cause that's all they have to come back with.
Power for abundant living my a**!!
Per Oakspear:
QUOTE(Eagle @ Dec 27 2005, 12:55 AM)
Did I read right on this thread? There are a few here that do not care about the Bible anymore? If that is true, did TWI have anything with turning you off to it?
If so, could anyone think to check out some other church or ministry?
Just curious.
Eagle
--------
1. You read right
2. There are a few
3. Yes
4. No thanks
Per Bramble:
The Way certainly taught me a lesson in how to use the Bible to control and abuse people. It redefined love into something ugly and hoop jumping.
Somewhere along the way I lost my trust and enjoyment of the Bible and Christian God in general. Can't pin point when or where, expect it was a cumulation of years of stuff. To me, it screams--this is unsafe, stay away.
We checked out a local splinter group and a long distance splinter group for a couple of years. I thought I should stay Way like in belief.
Then we got involved with two churches, both of which were friendly and non abusive and not demanding, offered alot to their congregation. Not bad experiences at all. I just felt no sense of belonging or healing, safety or relief. I went because I thought I should stay Christian.
I had a library card and used it alot.
I considered the people I've known, loved, admired and hated--and could see no dividing line that put the born again Christians on the good side, and the awful people on the other. In fact, due to our long years in TWi, there were quite a few born agains on the dark side.
The people who were warm, loving, healing to be around, affirming, admirable etc to me during this time were not Bible believers.
I decided I didn't have to be Christian, in my experience it was not the truth I saw in life around me... I moved on.
Per Hope R:
QUOTE
Somewhere along the way I lost my trust and enjoyment of the Bible and Christian God in general. Can't pin point when or where, expect it was a cumulation of years of stuff. To me, it screams--this is unsafe, stay away.
Bramble - your post is almost a carbon copy of where I'm at as well- including the splinter group and church experiences (though we only tried one).
The people who were warm, loving, healing to be around, affirming, admirable etc to me during this time were not Bible believers.
---------------
I have also experienced this - but have found that there are some very nice bible-believing people who keep their preaching to themselves - which, IMO, is a very loving thing to do!
I never want anyone to tell me what I should believe in ever again.
Themex -- as far as the topic goes-- I haven't read all the posts but I need to clarify your question --
Are you asking about former TWI leaders who currently have their own offshoots? Or is the question "How many TWI leaders FOLLOWED the sex doctrine of VPW" when they were in leadership positions in TWI?
As I wrote on another thread about splinter groups:
When I left TWI I wanted nothing to do with any splinter group. The majority of the people who were running them were leaders back in the "good old days" of TWI (which weren't really so damn good). Many if not all of them knew about the sexual misconduct of the MOG - and some even participated in the same misconduct. Even if they didn't do the same but knew about it and did or said NOTHING, they are culpable - guilty by association - whatever.
---------
At one time they either agreed with or ignored the sins of their father-in-the-void. I have heard that one of these men has publicly admitted and apologized for his actions, though I haven't heard or read it myself. Great - thanks - now go get a real job.
Per excathedra:
just thinking about the term doctrinal / practical error is enough to make me depressed for the rest of my life
Leonard and his students never claimed to be God's only chosen group.
Wierwille taught his students to be spiritual elitists and that only they had the truth
Leonard never differentiated between groups, but accepted all Christians as brothers.
Wierwille taught his followers to shun other Christian religions as evil etc.....
(Leonard) Materials and classes available to anyone having a need,
and making a donation appreciated but not demanded
(vpw) Materials and classes only available to the members, and must be paid for.
(Leonord) Built a system from scratch of dozens of internationally accredited schools
(vpw) Bought 2 existing schools and tried to keep the accreditations, but only
succeeded with the Rome City Location
Leonard's full bible class is a one year full time study, and available through the mail.
The course is available to anyone regardless of affiliation, and the grads
are not trained in secular business practices as the grads are expected to stay
with their own group or church.
The way inc. only extensive "bible study" is the way corps which is only available for
leaders, who are committed to the goals of the way, inc.
The focus of the "classes" is not strictly biblical knowledge, but leadership
indoctrination and the business of the way inc.
Leonard and his grads help anyone regardless of religious affiliation,
an example of true Christian brotherhood.
Leonard participated in cooperative projects like revivals with other groups
and ministers who put winning people to Christ as the focus.
Current TWI followers stick with "their own" and do not associate with other groups,
or participate in cooperative projects like revivals etc. The winning of people is not to Christ,
but to the way inc.
Taught ministers who were sent home to their churches
Built an empire of affiliate businesses/fellowships all paying affiliate fees (tithing) to HQ
Students who take classes come and go as they please.
No commitment to an organization is required or possible.
Involvement with TWI fellowships is mandatory to take their classes.
Gut wrenching scene upon leaving the "only true household" for those
who choose to not continue participating.....
No B.G. Leonard fellowships/affiliates, and no leadership structure.
TWI fellowships/affiliates with tightly controlled leadership structure.
A Few Doctrinal Comparisons
Students are expected to be born again and operating the worship gifts
before taking Gifts of the Spirit course.
There is no intermediate or advanced class as all 9 gifts
are taught and operated in one course.
twi - Students are made to wait until the 12th session to get born again, and before that
is frowned upon by leadership. Must take intermediate class to do interpretation
and prophecy, and the advanced class for the other 6 gifts.
Leonard felt that having Holy Spirit is essential to understanding scripture as
1 Corinthians 2:14 states. His class therefore starts with born again students
V.P. Wierwille ignores 1 Corinthians 2:14 in the arrangement of his foundational class,
yet ironically teaches this verse to students
(Leonard) Students practice all 9 gifts while taking the course. At a few evening
services, the students minister to those wanting healing under the direct
revelation and instruction of the class instructor.
The students go home knowing how to operate all 9 gifts.
(vpw) Students only practice the 3 worship gifts, and not the other 6 revelation
and impartation gifts. They go home from the "advanced class" with no hands on
guided ministering. Students are left to guess how to operate the other 6 gifts....
Leonard uses biblical term Gifts of the spirit and its intended meaning with consistent results
Wierwille does a whole teaching on why it should be manifestations,
changes its biblical meaning resulting in spotty results
B.G. Leonard's Grads represented Christ and operated their ministries of reconciliation
with endless signs, miracles, and wonders too numerous to keep track of.
(twi's) ministry's main purpose was the ministry of running the next class.
The few miracles that ever happened are endlessly talked about for years,
as they are far and few between
Biblical doing with signs, miracles and wonders too countless to number
Endless straining of knats called "biblical research" which is really neither.
It is a systematic indoctrination to get the new members to bow to the party line.
Leonard grads main purpose is to witness Christ, and not the classes offered.
Ministering is made available to anyone.
TWI grads main purpose while witnessing is to bring people to fellowship and sign them up for classes. Ministering is only available to those attending fellowships.
Simple faith aided by Christ which works, and without self-recriminations if it is not yet time...
The chore of getting your believing up yourself without Christ's help, and the accompanying self and leadership incriminations for failure
Obedience to God and acting on previously given scriptural revelation unless warned off.
Disobedience to God by waiting for second revelation (green light revelation)
instead of acting in accordance to previous revelation in the scriptures
Legal Disclaimer: The above comparison is the personal opinion of the author
Per likeaneagle in the Lest the ministry be blamed thread:
"Lest the ministry be blamed"
That was a cover up wasnt it..I had so many thoughts and times where I questioned the doings and goings on around me while in...this verse came into my thinking and I had heard others usse it.
HOW CONVIENENT!!
Per OM:
Wouldn't it have served the purposes of exposing truth much much more had they [the Allens]went ahead with the lawsuit?
My opinion. Both NO & yes on the surface. NO when all aspects are factored in.
Nevertheless, this opinion does not negate in the least the phenomenal amount of benevolence done by the public exposure of TWI which was accomplished via WayDale via the Allens, which exposue ostensibly led to the development of gsc, whose posters continues to expose the thought reform, fraud, misrepresentations, deceptions, lies, & plagiarism of the TWI scam 'ministry.'
I would have to surmise that a major reason for not proceding to trial was the emotional toll that it would take on the Allens, especially Fern, in view of the inevitable quesions she would have been asked by TWI's degenerate Counsel regarding very personal and sensitive issues. The Allens could have probably increased their litigation return by 500-1000% by going to trial. Apparently the obviation of the emotional stress factor was worth the 'hit' of a lesser settlement, & the roulette of a jury trial.
However, there is litigation ongoing, Peeler vs. TWI et. al., which appears to be proceding to jury trial in approximately September 2006. While it is possble that the Peelers would settle out of court, my opinion is that it would be highly unlikely. The infrastructure of this litigation began in 08/2001, the case being filed in 06/2002, with the Peelers perservering through a series of TWI cowardly legal obstructions up to the present.
Hopefully this jury trial will publically conclude what the admirable courage of the Allen's initiated.
think back on other events that I participated in....how many times did we have coffee houses or events that we were to invite people to...... we then were to use these as *open doors* for witnessing....a way to get someone to sign up for the class....in looking back.....it doesn`t seem like it ever really was about simply *blessing* people ....
Roa seemed consumed with corpes recruitment....wow promo...college division...etc
So much of the music we loved to hear contained themes of wow commitment...witnessing...tithe........
per Samurai:
But back on topic, every meeting, coffee house, open meeting with visiting leadership were all used as recruitment tools for PFAL or to go WOW
Per Belle:
By the time I got involved there wasn't much youth and cuteness left. "Class explanations" were just one big sales pitch and there was no pretending they were anything else. If there was someone you were "working with" but who hadn't signed up for the class yet, you were to bring them to a class explanation where the local WC would "close the deal".
It was very high pressure, but I consider using God's name and his protection on your life as high pressure and spiritual blackmail.
Per WhiteDove:
I watched the rise of "think and grow rich sales" in the Way happen it was always sad to see for me. I remember telling a branch leader that it was degrading to what we had to offer and to God to sell it like a refrigerator or a car. That went over as you can imagine real big and earned me a spot on the B list for the rest of their time here. I to this day don't doubt that they really thought that they were helping people they were unfortunately sucked into the carnal sales machine of the day.
__________________________________
As was said, the TWI rank & file members were generally deceived into thinking that TWI’s various open functions, oozing with recruitment, were somehow something good & needful for the ‘new people.’
All of us are transiently vulnerable to cult recruitment. So many cults, using so many guises and ploys, are actively looking for members at any given moment that surely there may be a cult for you. Whatever your age, whatever your interests, whatever your life-style, succumbing to the lure of a cultic recruiter is as easy as getting a library card. There are as many ways to become involved with a cult as there are cults.
Each group develops its own recruitment methods – ranging from personal contacts to public explanations to musical events, in newspapers and magazines, and on television and radio. The original point of recruitment may vary, but one constant factor is that rampant deceptions are involved. These deceptions extend from concealment of exactly what the group is at “the point of pick up” to concealment of the ultimate purpose of membership. These deceptions lie at the heart of a lack of informed consent.
The above is of course the essence of TWI’s sales’ classes: the Witnessing & Undersheperding seminar once offered ‘on the field,’ & Christian Motivational Techniques, taught to the Way Corps.
As noted above, cults aim their recruitment at vulnerable people because these individuals are less likely to see through the multiple layers of deceit. In TWI’s recruiting methodology, individuals suffering a transient vulnerability were said to have “needs.” A major focus of TWI recruitment is determining these so-called “needs” in order to manipulate the potential recruit.
We, the rank & file, then essentially became deployable agents of corporate TWI.
In my opinion we {ex-twi} were neither naïve or foolish, but just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time with a transient vulnerability.
When we hear of cults, scams, and individuals' being controlled and influenced by others, we instinctively try to separate ourselves from these persons. It seems a point of valor and self-esteem to insist that "no one could get me to do such things" when hearing about situations of intense influence. Just as most soldiers believe bullets will hit only others, most people tend to believe that their own minds and thought processes are invulnerable, contributing to the 'Not me" myth.
People like to think that their opinions, values, and ideas are inviolate and totally self-regulated. They may grudgingly admit that they're influenced by advertising. Beyond that, however, people want to preserve the comfortable myth that only other people are weak-minded and easily influenced while they are strong-minded. Even though we all now know that human minds are open to influence – whether or not that is a comfortable consideration – most of us defensively feel that we could never be scammed, even by master exploitative manipulators such as vpw & lcm.
There is an almost universal aversion to accepting the idea that we ourselves are vulnerable to covert coercive packaged persuasion.
So my opinion is that we were all scammed by the cultic manipulative influence techniques of TWI's unethical compliance professionals, vpw & lcm. Hopefully we will no longer blame ourselves and feel foolish or naive.
Per OM to rascal:
“…You consistently blame others for decisions that *you* freely made…”
No one, OM, not even you, freely made decisions after having been exposed to TWI’s strategically coordinated programs of non-consented covert packaged persuasion. You may have the perception of freely made decisions, but in fact this is a strategic, TWI-induced misperception, predominantly of the implicit rather than the explicit type.
Once a person has been subjected to having their general reality orientation destabilized, & subsequently experienced TWI’s thought reform, a distinction regarding any person has to be between: I & “I;” you & “you;” he or she & “he or she;” me & “me,” etc.
For those poor souls with a ‘good take’ Post thought reform, TWI has unethically altered the person’s mind such that they are no longer their true historical self, but rather a TWI-induced pseudo-self & pseudo-identity. No person operating from the vantage point of a cult-induced pseudo-self is freely making decisions. Essentially everything is perceived through the false cultic filter.
Once exiting TWI, as many of us here can attest, it takes years to be rid of the major vestiges of TWI’s thought reform. We ex-twi will probably never be able to rid ourselves totally of the detrimental effects of TWI’s rape of the mind.
OM, do not confuse bogus 'VMP' [victim mentality propaganda] with very real BTV {Blaming The Victim}. Perhaps you have been drinking the elixir of aloofness of the insensitive pro-cult apologists?
Two well-known social phenomena – blaming the victim & the just world concept – have been studied by social psychologists who have traced their origins to primitive times.
Blaming victims is an almost universal response to misfortune happening to others. In our society there is a strong taboo on being victimized through scams, influence, and deceptions. Attempts to break this irrational taboo tends to make the cult victim even more scorned.
When someone goes into a cult, the tendency for society is to say that there must be something wrong with that person. There must be some personal defect, otherwise he or she would not have joined such a group. Since the general public continues to regard cult members as stupid, crazy, and weak-minded, the near-universal response is: “It’s his or her fault. He or she went out looking for what they got.”
The tendency to blame victims prevents both lay and professional persons from seeing that most individuals who become involved in cultic relationships are a type of victim insufficiently recognized and understood. The person is irrationally blamed for being a seeker, gullible, or mentally aberrant. However, the thought reform programs of the cult are overlooked in this dimwitted 'VMP' appraisal.
There are 5 classes of generally recognized victims: victims of violent crimes; victims of natural disasters and serious illnesses; victims of terrorists and kidnappers; victims of civil torts; &, a final 5th class overlapping the fourth, victims of enforced dependency.
Victims of enforced dependency have been subjected to non-consented thought reform processes. In essence, a thought reform program is a behavioral reconstruction program, a coordinated program of systematic manipulation using both psychological and social techniques.
Basic to the just world concept is the widely held belief that if a person obeys the rules of society, nothing bad will happen to him or her. Rule-breakers, on the other hand, get punished. Punishment comes in the form of bad luck, disasters, illness, loss. Thus victims of any disaster, crime, illness, or misfortune automatically fall into this bogus category of supposedly blameworthy people. This primitive reasoning goes something like this: “ Since I feel protected from evil and misfortune if I obey the rules – because it is a just world – then I can separate myself from those who come to harm. They must have done something bad to have bad things happen to them.”
How many of you here are still struggling with trusting God again? I was thinking about all of us who made commitments (WOW,Way Corpse, Staff, Way Disciple, and the other programs) to who we thought were God's representatives only to be told we didn't measure up and that we needed to leave/be dropped etc.
It is sad that a beautiful desire to serve God and help others was trashed by twi when we were told we were not good enough. VP might have said he would take people with heart over people with ability, but in the latter days this was no longer the case. In fact, it was normally the opposite.
Anyone else have these issues? What have you done about it?
____________
Yes my wife & I most definitely have these issues since departing from TWI post LCM’s 04/2000 ‘announcement’ which sounded all too familiar to the 1986-87 POP non-announcement. “Once burned, twice shy; twice burned, may wish to die.”
We feel that TWI has destroyed our ability to have a meaningful relationship with God. In fact, we don’t even know if God exists. In fact, we are not sure we now even care, even though we would like to care. We remain open minded but continue in our TWI-induced distrust of the entire ‘spiritual’ category.
Douglas Hyde wrote a book which was first published in 1966 entitled, Dedication and Leadership.
Hyde had grown up as a Roman Catholic, converted to communism in his idealistic adolescence, and then as a mature man returned to Roman Catholicism. One central premise of the book is that the Christian churches should use the thought reforming techniques (such as ‘struggle groups’ and the mobilization of peer pressure) of the communists, not to convert Christians to communism, but to “get” the maximum productive work out of Christian believers and workers, who appeared all too smug, complacent, and self-satisfied.
The techniques of covert packaged persuasion, that is, coordinated thought reform programs, are strategically organized so as to: (1) Destabilize a person’s sense of true historical self and to destabilize his general reality orientation; (2) Get the person to drastically reinterpret his life’s history and radically alter his worldview and accept a new version of reality and causality; and, (3) Develop in the person a dependence on the organization, and thereby turn the person into a deployable agent of the cultic organization.
Returning to Doug Hyde’s observations, he stated that the Christian church had much to learn from the ideological totalist’s techniques, methods, and attitudes.
Following are some of the totalitarian methods and strategies that in my opinion were utilized by TWI. This description is all the more ironic in view of VPW’s supposed personal fear & loathing of totalitarian communism.
1) The strength of TWI lies in its people and “the way” in which they are “used.” They “use well” the human material at their disposal.
2) The most distinguishing mark of TWI members is their idealism, their zeal, commitment/dedication, devotion to their cause and willingness to make phenomenal personal sacrifices. TWI utilize their “own means” by which they are able to “evoke” an exceptional degree of commitment/dedication.
3) The majority of those persons who joined TWI were young at that time. The average joining age used to be from late teenage years to early twenties. Youth is a period noted to be characterized by a profound degree of idealism. TWI recruits these young people by appealing to their idealism and harnessing it to their “cause” with the end result of a tremendous pro-TWI effect.
4) TWI] becomes the dominant thing in the life of the TWI believer. It is something to which he “gives” himself completely. This is because the potential TWI recruit is experiencing a temporary emotional vulnerability. TWI’s non-consented covert packaged persuasion would appear to “meet a need” when the person is first recruited into it. In reality, it is really a matter of TWI preying on a potential recruits’ individual susceptibility and transient vulnerability at that unique point in time. TWI typically continues to be the dominant force in the life of the TWI member for as long as he or she remains in the “movement.”
5) TWI’s] appeal to idealism is direct and audacious. TWI says that if you make mean little demands upon people, you will only get a mean little response, which is what you deserve for your lack of a bold appeal; but, if you repetitively make huge demands on people, you will get a heroic response [manipulation by the rejection-then-retreat, perceptual contrast, and commitment-consistency principles, among others]. TWI works on the assumption that if you call for large personal sacrifices, people will “respond” to this and, moreover, the relatively smaller required sacrifices will come quite “naturally” [synthetic pseudo-self in relatively ‘automatic’ and consistent daily operation].
6) Like attracts like. Those who are intrigued or attracted by the commitment/dedication they see within the TWI “movement” will themselves be “possessed” of a latent idealism, a capacity for commitment/dedication. This commitment/dedication tends to perpetuate itself. It sets the tone and pace of the “movement” as a whole. This being so, the movement can make huge demands upon its adherents, knowing that the “correct response” will come. If the majority of the members, from the top leaders on down, are characterized by their “single-minded” commitment/devotion to the “cause,” and it is quite clear that the majority of genuinely committed/dedicated, average members are “giving” until it hurts, putting in their money, time, thought, talents, and if necessary, life itself, then this living example of commitment/dedication, and loyalty is “inspiring” to potential members, who have never experienced the startling appeal of enthusiastic, duped, & deployable TWI agents.
If one probes into the recruiting tactics of TWI, almost invariably one will find that it is not the theoretical or doctrinal elements that make the enticing initial impact, but, the shocking impact made on them by some commited/dedicated TWI member, when the individual was in a state of transient emotional vulnerability. Then TWI via clever psycho-social manipulation ‘conditions’ them to affiliate with this TWI “movement.”
7) Commitment/dedication must be met with commitment/dedication. Ideally, it should be backed by a genuine understanding of TWI’s sacred hermetic ‘science.’ The ‘science’ gives the illusion of rationality to TWI’s injurious conduct.
8) What distinguishes the TWI “movement” from essentially all others and makes it possible for such a small minority of people to make so great an impact is the commitment/dedication of the average individual TWI member and the dynamic force this represents when all those individuals collectively make their contribution to the TWI “cause.”
9) Commitment/dedication to TWI and willingness to experience the ‘awesome privilege’ to‘sacrificially serve’ must be developed in a person, and then drawn out of him, not physically coerced. Recall TWI’s teaching of the “principle” of the so-called Biblical “bond-slave,” koine Greek, doulos/doule.
The “unfolding and growth” of the “personality” of the recruit to TWI is frequently ‘spectacular,’ for TWI sets out to “create” men & women of a special mould, a consummately ‘formidable woman or man.” TWI fully expects and demands of their disciples to be so fanatically committed/dedicated so as to risk worldly victimization, to be prepared to lose their means of livelihood, to be black-listed by every employer in his particular industry, and to even see his own standard of life and that of his loved ones go down to poverty, illness, or even death.
10) Individual adherents of TWI] are “brought to believe” that collectively they and others like them can ‘change the world’ in their very lifetime.
The exploiter has “put into their lives” a ‘dynamic force’ so powerful that the exploiter can manipulate them to do what would otherwise be impossible. The dull and humdrum takes on the ‘illusion’ of becoming transcendently meaningful. Life ‘appears’ to become extremely purposeful and immensely more “worth living.”
TWI further “induces” members to make the inevitable comparisons between TWI and main-line denominational Christianity. The comparisons the TWI adherent is indoctrinated to make are of course consistently unfavorable to denominations or even TWI-spin off groups. They are labeled by TWI as being “smug, complacent, and self-satisfied.” Or they are stereotyped as being “brain-dead pew-warmers” sitting in a “stained glass whorehouses.”
11) The detailed instruction of the new TWI member does not normally begin immediately after he joins. Quite deliberately, and with good reason, TWI sends its new members, whenever ‘possible’ into some form of public activity [manipulation of the commitment-consistency principle] before detailed instruction [Advanced Class, Way Corps training, etc.]. For TWI this public activity would be something like the Word Over the World (WOW) program.
This activity is of course deceptively andstrategically designed by TWI to commit the new member publicly to TWI {via utilization of the commitment-consistency principle}. This public activity is of profound psychological significance. For this relatively new member, still having to ‘adjust’ his [thought reformed] ‘mind’ to the ‘realization’ that he is now a committed TWI member {realizing as he does that large segments of the general population consider the label of ‘TWI disciple’ to be very negative}, this public display of commitment/dedication is very psychologically significant indeed. He is making a public witness for the ‘cause’ which he is now ‘making his own’ [solidifying the coercively imposed synthetic pseudo-identity which has now largely suppressed the true historical self].
All of this public witnessing activity requires for many people {especially those who are not inclined by natural disposition to be an extrovert, dramatic, persuasive, pushy, etc.} a certain degree of moral courage to overcome the natural tendency of many people to be overly self-conscious, to overcome a social sense of inferiority, etc. As the new member/adherent embarks on his first public witnessing assignment, he usually feels to be such a fool that he is almost resentful of having been commissioned for such outreach work. But before long he begins to ‘understand’ the significance of it all. He receives a lot of low level, hackling-type of verbal abuse from those whom he has disturbed with his public witnessing. The self-conscious new member/adherent is embarrassed at the prospect of becoming the center of a ‘scene.’
But the crowd that begins to gather is a mixed one. He now finds himself having to deal with bystanders’ more rational questions than hackling. This rational questioning causes him ‘to draw deeply’ upon the small resources as he has received in the way of teaching about TWI. It requires yet another act of moral courage to remain in a war of ideological words for which, he by now realizes, he is not fully equipped. He now realizes that he does not have all of the answers to the questions he is likely to be asked as a practicing TWI member. He is conscious now that he knows far less than he thought he did. In all probability he is now dissatisfied with himself. ‘He or she’ [the new cultic pseudo-identity] would dearly have loved to put up a tremendous war of persuasive, winning, ideological words and concepts for his new found faith, taking on and defeating, or converting, all comers.
He has now learned of his own inadequacy as far as in-depth, detailed knowledge of TWI’s supposed sacred science is concerned. This realization creates in him a deep feelingto become highly ‘educated’ as far as his new faith is concerned. He is now seeking to make himself more adequate, more worthy of TWI, better able to ‘serve’ the ‘cause.’ And his new found thirst for knowledge about TWI’s sacred science, the manipulated sense of urgency he feels has grown from his manipulated actions and behaviors. CONDUCT and sacred—those apparent opposites—have now found a manipulated ‘unity’ in his ‘re-educated mind’ and in his mystically manipulated experiences. The stage has now been set for the TWI member to ‘desire’ to enter the Way Corps so as to acquire this promised “in-depth spiritual perception and awareness.”
12) The Power for Abundant Living ]PFAL] series of classes with affiliated seminars as well as its more recent replacement, the Way of Abundance and Power [WAP] series of classes and associated seminars, were presented in such a way as to be as “inspirational” as possible. This is because any implicit [post-hypnotic suggestions] or explicit instruction is all the more acceptable to a person when it is presented in an inspirational fashion. Next, the subject matter of TWI is presented in global terms, so as to destabilize one’s current general reality orientation. This subject matter is presented against the background of a world in hopeless, politically correct, relative pluralism and never-ending conflict.
The new recruit is made to feel that there is a great battle going on all over the world, which involves his own country, his own town, his own neighborhood, his workplace, and even his own family. He is made to feel that the period of history in which he happens to be living is a decisive one and that he personally has a decisive role to play.
This new TWI member is made to feel that he is a part of great, worldwide movement which is challenged on all sides, confronted by an implacable enemy, and furthermore, he is involved in a monumental spiritual battle which will decide the course of history for generations, if not millennia, to come
13) TWI teachings are presented in such a way as to make the individual undergoing intense indoctrination feel that he is engaged in a spiritual fight against all things evil and on behalf of what is genuinely good. It is us vs. them. Only TWI members are good and righteous, all others, no matter how sincere, are deceived and evil.
All of this makes the TWI disciple feel that he is engaged in a great crusade against something which is unspeakably evil, that he is fighting against monstrously evil things. This manipulation assists in engendering the exploited ‘willingness’ of the TWI disciple to give his all to the ‘cause.’ For by implicit and explicit fear manipulation they are ‘taught’ to realistically consider the price of failure.
TWI covertly appeals in its manipulative, intense indoctrinations to people’s capacity for moral indignation. TWI moral indignation is a self-serving, highly selective moral indignation. The covert package persuasion of TWI is presented in such a way that the TWI disciples feel convinced that he or she is on the side of genuine good, and involved in a historic struggle of titanic proportions against evil.
This appeals to something deep in one’s limbic nature, something undeniably virtuous, true, righteous, just, and good. In their hearts, many people, perhaps most people, like to feel that they are on the side of righteousness. The TWI disciple is indoctrinated via thought reform to ‘believe’ exactly this, now transforming the feeling into a deep intellectual conviction. An immense amount of activity flows from this contrived ‘conviction.’ One reason why the TWI disciple is prepared to make exceptional ‘sacrifices’ is that he or she is ‘conditioned to believe’ that he is taking a part in an historic crusade of unimaginably gargantuan proportions
14)It is in the ‘study group’ [TWI cell group and ‘struggle group’ called “Twig” or “Household Fellowship”] that TWI leaders are begin their moulding. There, the potentialities of the person are discovered, ‘drawn out,’ and focused. Each TWI cell group is ‘theoretically’ designed to be self-supporting, self-propagating, and self-governing.
In TWI’s thought reforming process, terms are re-defined at almost every conceivable point. But the definitions given to ordinary terms are TWI’s own, not those normally accepted by others, essentially forming a conceptual, self-reinforcing “loaded language” of esoteric, jargonized, subcultural ‘code’ and implanted suggestion ‘triggers.’
TWI has learned that the covert, sophisticated, subtle, non-physically coercive techniques of thought reform usually achieve a much more preferable and enduring result than all the physically coercive techniques accomplish. In TWI hands, the covert method may take on sinister qualities, as concepts which would otherwise be unacceptable are [deceptively] skillfully implanted [Pavlovian subliminal conditioning, post-hypnotic suggestion, individual and group psychosocial manipulations, etc.] into the minds of those who attend their classes and cell study/struggle groups TWI Twigs, Household Fellowships. Such thought reforming instruction ‘leads’ those who are indoctrinated in this covert fashion to abandon and repudiate practically most of their former thinking and, indeed, to abandon the very things which first were used to bait them. This oppressive repudiation is of course the functioning of the synthetic, cultic pseudo-personality which has essentially overwritten and overridden the true historical mental self.
15) TWI lives by its bogus ‘campaigns.’. The majority of the new recruits to the TWI come in via the campaigns which the TWI ‘organizes’ [via strategic manipulative exploitation]. Campaigning keeps the TWI disciples active the whole of the time [so that: they don’t have time to re-evaluate and critically think; they don’t have time to really get involved in anything else]. This is a most strategic and deliberate policy. TWI ensures that one campaign follows another almost non-stop. TWI disciples, if they are worthy of the name at all, are always active, to the point of mental if not physical exhaustion. Activity in itself serves an important purpose, but it has to be made [by contrivance] as ‘meaningful’ as possible so that more and more potential TWI recruits may be deceived into association with TWI.
Ideally, these ‘issues’ should be linked to the people’s deepest desires [therefore possessing more potential for exploitation and manipulation due to the person’s emotional overreaction to the apparent fulfillment of deep desire]. The recruiting/outreach assignment of TWI is to discover the NEEDS {transient vulnerabilities} of the people and then to [appear] to come before them as their [deceptive, exploitative] ‘champions.’ Members/disciples are to go out among the people and discover their hearts deepest desires, their concerns, their frustrations, their unanswered questions. This technique was taught in TWI’s “Christian Motivational Techniques” & TWI’s Witnessing & Undershepherding seminar.
16) VPW called the organization of TWI “The Way Tree,” where local cell groups of disciples comprise a Household Fellowship Twig, the next larger unit of a Branch being a collection of Twigs, the next larger unit of a Limb being a collection of Branches, the next larger unit being the Trunk being a collection of Limbs, the next larger unit being the ROOTS.
This pyramid is the arrangement of a marginal ‘business,’ perhaps a multi-level marketing racketeering scam?
Ramona Bidon was a defendant in the Allen vs. The Way International lawsuit. She bought into the doctrine Martindale learned from Slick Vic and taught to his inner circle:
Sex is nothing more than satisfying a physical urge like scratching an itch: "like sticking your finger in your ear," as Slick Prick Vic was fond of saying in the Christian Family and Sex class, and Craig was fond of quoting both in public and private counsel.
Sex between two adults, married or not, married to each other or not, is A-OK with God as long as the participants have a "renewed mind" about it and can "handle" it.
Any woman who lends her body to "the man of God" is rendering a special service, even has a special ministry within the body of Christ.
Those with this special ministry were gatekeepers responsible for scoping out the flock for potential servants,instructing them in the sex doctrine of the inner circle, and then filling the 'Man of God's' stables with fresh new fillies to service his needs.
This task Ms. Bidon and others apparently took personally. This is one of the reasons she was named as a defendant in the above-named legal action. She allegedly actively indoctrinated and recruited sex toys for Martindale.
Yes, I believe she is evil and accountable. And for more than just the death of her husband.
And mind you, these people who were gatekeepers in the inner circle, are still in The Way International, and still part of the inner circle. Rosalie Rivenbark is allegedly one of them.
Perhaps helping keep the Man of God's stable full left his wife free for other -ahem- services...
The judge in the aforementioned legal action felt Rivenbark was privy to certain of Martindale's actions. It's public knowlege, revealed in the legal documents.
Per Dot Matrix:
Per Catcup:
"Those with this special ministry were gatekeepers responsible for scoping out the flock for potential servants, instructing them in the sex doctrine of the inner circle, and then filling the 'Man of God's' stables with fresh new fillies to service his needs."
I can attest to this being a true statement as I was targeted by one of the female Rev. pimps. When I was not interested they had an area meeting to announce I was possessed, that way when I told people about the "inner circle" or the practices of these "ordained" chosen, special people -- all would scoff at me. It wounded me GREATLY.
They were b-tches like none other I have met in the secular world. Bunch of easy wh-res with a title and a dangerous secret assignment to ruin the lives of girls who were seeking Jesus. Yeah, meet the leaders of The Way, Linda Lovelace and the rest of the “head” hunters.
Per washingtonweather:
I said it before and I will say it again,
The Way International wil continue to hold the individuals who committed suicide in disgrace.
It is our job to bring Honor and Respect to these people who had their very heart's breath stolen from them. It is not our job to judge or crititique.
It is our job to show the world the greatness of those peoples lives becasue TWI shadows these people with criticism and ridicule.
It is our job to stand up for the Tom Mitchell's and Rochelle Wayneburg's and others........FURTHERMORE it is our obligation to regain the honor of those who died innocently for reasons of good intention fueled by erroneous "doctorine" as discussed earlier on this thread (like Shell's husband.) As much as it is our obligation to speak out when a wrong is committed.
There is absolutely no reason I could ever go back, no reason I could ever accept TWI's pitiful narcisistic sociopathic mindset. Those who consider it with out knowing all the facts are simply like fish ignorant of the hook in the bait.
Per rascal:
CRAIG was the spiritual leader.
CRAIG threw a hissy and wouldn`t allow Ramona to leave.
CRAIG had responsibity to minister to Tom as his leader.
CRAIG didn`t give a tinkers damn about ANYONE or ANYTHING except his piece of tail was getting away
I`d say h-ll yeah .... the responibility rests squarely on his shoulders....he was in charge...physically and spiritually....he took advantage of his position and power....he savaged the poor guy to absolve himself of responsibility and had to make himself look like a hero by the abominable lie that Tom would have murdered Ramona.....His behavior was reprehensible.
Poor Tom`s only fault was loving a weak woman.....and having the misfortune of an evil man as his spiritual leader.
The poor guy had no where to go.
My friend committed suicide when his wife left him to live with his corpes buddy.....the betrayal and loss was more than he could bear.
He delivered the kids she had left behind.....and then blew his brains out....
Yeah she was pretty awfull...her actions were reprehensible...but she DID attempt to leave with her husband at first.
If craig had done the right thing as a spiritual leader and brother n Christ.......instead of influencing her with everything at his disposal to stay with him instead of her husband.....the outcome would have been very different.....
Come on......it wasn`t like anybody could be on equal footing with lcm....
It wasn`t like LCM really loved her either....
What it reminds me of is the story that nathan told David about the rich man stealing the one single precious little lamb that his neighbor owned.
The betrayal by the two people that Tom should have been safely able to trust was overwhelming....
This situation shows what a heartless self centered monster Craig Martinadale really was and the atmosphere that thrived at hq.....
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rascal
You try to make a point oldies...that it was no big deal because these young teenaged girls *consented* ....... you know, there were many of us gals who did indeed *consented* to having sex in our ear
jkboehme
Returning to Doug Hyde’s observations, he stated that the Christian church had much to learn from the ideological totalist’s [communist’s] techniques, methods, and attitudes. Apparently VPW, as the to
jkboehme
Per igotout (from the PFAL was stolen thread from the archives):
Additional insight into VPW's/TWI's fraudulent misrepresentations, lying, plagiarism, etc. from the PFAL was Stolen thread:
Per FreshAir 99:
From what I remember, B.G. Leonard was rarely credited with any of vpw's learning. Perhaps, because vpw copied SO MUCH of it and didn't want to be exposed with fraudulent claims of "God teaching him (vpw) directly."
If vpw would have been forthright about coming forward with this information and COMPILING THE PFAL CLASS FROM THESE MEN'S WORKS....then, to me, it wouldn't be as big a deal. BUT...... to pawn himself off like THE ONLY MAN OF GOD SINCE THE FIRST CENTURY TO HAVE SUCH TRUTH......it turns my stomach.
Per Dot Matrix:
But still there is that God promise thing about being taught the word like it was not taught since the First Century -- and yet THERE IT WAS in print -- After the First Century pre-PFAL
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jkboehme
Per excathedra (from the B.G. Leonard thread):
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Per TheEvan (from the B.G. Leonard archival thread):
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rascal
AMEN Evan!!!!
The personal conduct of vp and twi leaders just isn`t IN the nature of any true minister or spiritual leader....for the genuine man of the spirit......it truly is an inside thing that makes such actions not only unapealing, but unthinkable as well.
It quite simply is the difference between a genuine and the counterfit.
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jkboehme
Per Dot Matrix (from the B.G. Leonard archival thread):
Per Shazdancer (from the B.G. Leonard archival thread):Link to comment
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rascal
as per excathedra, Dott matrix and shaz dancer....I am nausiated :(
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jkboehme
Per Hope R. (from the B.G. Leonard archival thread):
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Per wyteduv58 (from the BG Leonard archival thread):
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jkboehme
From the BG Leonard archival thread:
Per excathedra:
Per WordWolf:
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Per TheEvan (from the BG. Leonard archival thread):
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Per Greek2Me:
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From the BG Leonard thread:
Per alfakat:
Per shazdancer:
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It seems to me another strategic reason for VPW's use of the term, "Father," {as in, "Father in the 'Word'"} has to do with manipulative exploitation of the transference phenomenon. This was just another way utilized by VPW to induce unhealthy dependency on VPW specifically & TWI in general.
Transference: Are you a biological time machine?
Published in "The Source", June, 2001
Revised: October 17, 2005
By:
Michael G. Conner, Psy.DSigmund Freud first identified the psychological process of transference and brought it into what is now modern day psychotherapy. As a therapist he noticed that people had strong feelings and fantasies about him that had no basis in reality. But Freud died before there was such a thing as "rock and roll." Transference has become a more modern concept since Freud. In fact, many people believe transference is actually something that happens in life - and not just psychotherapy.
What is Transference? During transference, people turn into a "biological time machine". A nerve is struck when someone says or does something that reminds you of your past. This creates an "emotional time warp" that transfers your emotional past and your psychological needs into the present. In less poetic terms, a transference reaction means that you are reacting to someone in terms of what you need to see, you are afraid of or what you see when you know very little about the person. This all happens without you knowing why you feel and react the way you do.
What Is Projection? Some people refer to transference as a "projection." In this case you are projecting your own feelings, emotions or motivations into another person without realizing your reaction is really more about you than it is about the other person. In a life filled with transference, your job may be "the family reunion you are avoiding and you are forced to go to each day." In other cases of projection, your girlfriend may remind you of all the irritating things your mother did when you were growing up. Love at first sight is usually a projection – especially if it ends in disaster and you could have seen it coming.
Harmful Patterns. Transference reactions are caused by unmet emotional needs, neglect, seductions and other abuses that transpired when you were a child. In some forms of psychotherapy, a therapist will intentionally create or allow transference to form. When done properly, this helps a therapist to understand and find a connection between the patient's past and how the patient misreads the present and may react ineffectively. Once you discover a transference pattern, you can chose to respond in terms of what is really happening instead of what happened 20 or 30 years ago. People who don't recognize the difference between past and present can end up in the same messed–up relationships over and over or with the same problem over and over.
Extreme Transference. In an extreme form of transference, you may conclude that someone is an awful or evil person when in fact that person's favorite food and television show reminds you of an emotionally abusive mother and a sexually abusive brother you have been trying to forget since childhood. That's an example of negative transference. A warm, supportive and kind person could remind you of what you are missing and wanting in their life. You might then idealize that person and begin to see him or her as wonderful beyond belief. The idea is that you will react to your therapist based on your experience with another person. This is usually a parent that the patient has an unresolved conflict with. In extreme cases a patient will become overly attached to their therapist or they will enter into and create conflicts without realizing how.
Transference Melt-Downs. Extreme forms of transference can turn into a full-blown obsession if it is not dealt with. Transference "meltdowns" can result in accidents, dangerous choices, nightmares, fantasies, stalking someone, psychotic reactions and sometimes violence. While it does not happen frequently in therapy, it can happen in the patient's personal life.
How Can You Tell? How do you know you are having a "transference reaction"? It's not always easy, but you probably are if you know very little about a therapist (or anyone) and you are having a powerful reaction that is not justifiable to a reasonable person. It can be difficult if the patient can rationalize their reactions. Having a strong sexual attraction to your therapist is almost always a transference reaction, unless of course your therapist is actually hitting on you – and they're not supposed to do that on purpose. Intentionally seducing a vulnerable patient in sick and wrong! In fact that applies to any health-related profession or any employer-employee relationship. Becoming angry at you therapist as if they were a parent is a good sign that there is a transference reaction. Termination of treatment pre-maturely is another sign of transference - unless the therapist is just doing a bad job.
Counter-Transference. Therapists and other health care professionals can also have transference reactions while treating a patient. It's a two way street. Counter-transference is basically a therapist's "emotional time warp" around their patient's transference. In other words, counter-transference is a therapist's counter- reaction. That's why some therapists think they are falling in love with their patients. That's also why older guys become obsessed with younger female employees they barely know.
Ethics And The Law. A therapist, counselor and even a physician could possibly lose their license for seducing or sleeping with a patient they are treating. Trying to seduce an employee on the job may result in a successful lawsuit. You can also sue a licensed mental health professional for sleeping with you if you are their patient. And employers must follow the law. On the other hand, unlicensed therapist can do almost whatever they want and there may be nothing anyone can do about it. It's hard to sue an employer and win. Unlicensed therapists do not have a "duty" to act within a standard of practice. Employers may not know the law.
Unseen Dangers. Transference can sometimes produce a powerful love or a destructive hatred based on a complete illusion. There can be a loud and painful thud when people act on their transference reactions and the bubble finally bursts. In addition to being embarrassed, it can also backfire. Sometimes people will end up stalking, assaulting or killing someone. Please don't kill yourself or anyone because of some transference from your childhood. And if you think your therapist, or an employer for that matter, is seducing you, tell your therapist, or contact a licensed therapist to talk about it.
Should I or Shouldn't I Risk Transference. Transference is really difficult to recognize, deal with and understand, but it is incredibly interesting. I tend to avoid people who are "oozing" with transference potential. Working with transference, or creating transference in therapy can make a therapist look mystical and brilliant. Cult therapies are based in part on generating positive transference to control and manipulate people. I avoid treatment approaches that artificially inflate my ego, would allow me to control anyone and make me feel powerful. But not everyone feels the way I do about transference. Some counselors and therapists love the power and think they can handle it. A therapist must face transference issues and encourage patients to deal with them as much as possible. In some cases a patient is not able to deal with transference issues and will terminate therapy. While it is regrettable and potentially a lost opportunity, it must be supported.
copyright 2002 to 2005, Michael G. Conner
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In my opinion the 'exactness factor' [as mentioned by Pat Roberge on the thread with this phrase] fits the description that Dr. Robert J. Lifton referred to as "sacred science.'"
The following paragraphs are from Lifton's Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism…
Embolding, underlining, italics, [ ], & blue highlights are my additions for emphasis or clarification / jkb.
The "Sacred Science"
The totalist milieu maintains an aura of sacredness around its basic dogma [ie, the 'Word' of 'God' is the 'Will' of 'God,' & the 'Man of God,' our 'Father in the Word,' miraculously 'explains' the TWI-defined Word without so much as an hint of PI], holding it out as an ultimate moral vision [ie 'Word over the World'] for the ordering of human existence. This sacredness is evident in the prohibition (whether or not explicit) against the questioning of basic assumptions, and in the reverence which is demanded for the originators of the 'Word,' the present bearers of the 'Word,' and the 'Word' itself.
[/size]
While thus transcending ordinary concerns of logic, however, the milieu at the same time makes an exaggerated claim of airtight logic, of absolute "scientific" precision [the 'Word' works with a mathematical exactness & scientific precision, the 'Word' fits like a hand in a glove, etc.]. Thus the ultimate moral vision becomes an ultimate science; and the man who dares to criticize it, or to harbor even unspoken alternative ideas, becomes not only immoral and irreverent, but also "unscientific." In this way, the philosopher kings [eg, VPW, LCM, RFR] of modern ideological totalism reinforce their authority by claiming to share in the rich and respected heritage of natural science.
The assumption here is not so much that man can be God, but rather that man's ideas can be God: that an absolute science of ideas (and implicitly, an absolute science of man) exists, or is at least very close to being attained; that this science can be combined with an equally absolute body of moral principles; and that the resulting doctrine is true for all men at all times. Although no ideology goes quite this far in overt statement, such assumptions are implicit in totalist practice.
At the level of the individual, the totalist sacred science can offer much comfort and security. Its appeal lies in its seeming unification of the mystical and the logical modes of experience (in psychoanalytic terms, of the primary and secondary thought processes). For within the framework of the sacred science, and sweeping, non-rational "insights." Since the distinction between the logical and the mystical is, to begin with, artificial and man-made, an opportunity for transcending it can create an extremely intense feeling of truth. But the posture of unquestioning faith - both rationally and non-rationally derived - is not easy to sustain, especially if one discovers that the world of experience is not nearly as absolute as the sacred science claims it to be.
Yet so strong a hold can the sacred science achieve over his mental processes that if one begins to feel himself attracted to ideas which either contradict or ignore it, he may become guilty and afraid. His quest for knowledge is consequently hampered, since in the name of science he is prevented from engaging in the receptive search for truth which characterizes the genuinely scientific approach. And his position is made more difficult by the absence, in a totalist environment, of any distinction between the sacred and the profane: there is no thought or action which cannot be related to the sacred science.
To be sure, one can usually find areas of experience outside its immediate authority; but during periods of maximum totalist activity (like thought reform) any such areas are cut off, and there is virtually no escape from the milieu's ever-pressing edicts and demands.
Whatever combination of continued adherence, inner resistance, or compromise co-existence the individual person adopts toward this blend of counterfeit science and back-door religion, it represents another continuous pressure toward personal closure, toward avoiding, rather than grappling with, the kinds of knowledge and experience necessary for genuine self-expression and for creative development.
Dr. Margaret Singer, Ph.D., explains another aspect of the 'exactness factor' or 'sacred science' in her book, Cults in Our Midst.
Naturalistic trance induction demonstrates how ordinary words, conversational style, and careful pacing & leading of an interaction [eg, of a TWI teaching session] can bring one person to the point of being able to 'secure the cooperation' of another person without using pressure, high-demand announcements, or commands [ie, not physically coercive, but definitely coercive packaged persuasion].
Even when trances per se are not produced, the activities of skilled cult leaders capitalize on the essential ingredients of pacing and leading, exploiting positive transference, & making indirect suggestions, all of which are central to the process and experience of trance [reveries, bedazzlement, and transfixion, etc.].
The techniques can seem innocuous, at first. Some of them - guided imagery, for instance - may actually be familiar from a relaxation class or a self-help audiocassette. In the wrong hands, however, these techniques can do an astonishing amount of harm.
"Trance-induction," Singer explains, is brought about by "a high central focus of attention or concentration [eg,by TWI on very detailed topics, such as 4 crucified, the day JC died, the 4 sessions of hyperfocus on ICor12-14, the AC definitions of the manifestations with all of the supportive scriptural narrative, etc.] which leads to diminished peripheral awareness. It can be achieved through various methods, and it's a means by which one person gets the complete attention of another."
Closed-eye exercises, a form of guided imagery, can be one of the most powerful trance-induction tools used in workshops. With the sense of sight deadened, customers are more attuned to the voice of the seminar leader. While this sounds innocent - sports psychologists enlist Olympic athletes in guided imagery exercises - the potential for abuse is great when the object of the exercise is not, say, running a faster 100-meter dash.
Take a few days without proper rest, add a regimen of closed-eye exercises, and anyone can become vulnerable to suggestion, "You're simply flooded with emotion," observes Singer. "The trainers usually get you to think of all your most powerful memories, under the guise of somehow conquering your past." After several days of being "dragged down into the pits", says Singer, "the final day of exercises is usually designed to pump you up. By this time, customers usually just sort of drool and follow the leader. A false sense of community and camaraderie has developed. By now, they do everything they can to give you the 'warm fuzzies,' so that you'll sign up for the next course."
Edited by jkboehmeLink to comment
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Per Dot Matrix (from Janice's broken heart):
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Per Skyrider (from the Branch Wierwillian thread):
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Per Belle (from the Legacy of TWI thread):
JustLoafing, I have often wondered the same thing. It seems to me that if they really did believe what they were teaching that they would be scared sh1tless about having to explain to God why they have done the things they've done and destroyed the lives they've destroyed. They don't seem to care.
We KNOW vee pee, craig and many other leadership have these on their record.
I believe they worshipped themselves and the Bible, but others would disagree with that.
Hatred - We were taught to hate anyone who rejected TWI, left TWI or belonged to another church. Heck, at one time craig had us practically hating Jesus and especially any song to or about him.
Discord - they are pros at this - among families, married couples, among other religions....
Fits of rage - "God won't spit in your direction!" How many first hand accounts of vee pee and craiggers going off on tirades here? Too many to count.
There's so much more here and so many examples of their lives reflecting all of these "acts of the sinful nature" - even the most worshipful vee pee apologist has to admit to this unless they are just fooling themselves.
Patience, Kindness and Goodness are things one would be hard pressed to find in any TWI leadership in the upper echelon.
They LOVE the upper seats! They LOVE the adoration! They LOVE having servants, but I don't think those are things meant by these verses.
They are faithful to ruining marriages and lives. Faithful to spying out the liberties in Christ that their follwers have, but again, I don't think that's what these verses are talking about.
Hmmmmm, seems pretty clear to me which "fruit" we were exposed to.....
Per Free Soul (from the Legacy thread):
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washingtonweather
good researching and compiling jkb.
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From the Sex Doctrine of VPW thread:
Per themex:
Per excathedra:
Per justloafing:
Per tomtuttle1:
Per rascal:
Per WordWolf:
Per WordWolf:QUOTE(doojable @ Dec 22 2005, 08:29 PM)
Bramble, You wrote:
"Back in the early eighties I remember an interim corps girl(11th corps I think) tell me there was a passage in the gospels where Jesus came to a town and the women ministered to him sexually"
It seems to me that when LCM did athletes of the Spirit that he spoke about Jesus allowing women to touch him. (Annointing heim with oil, kssing his feet, using their hair to wipe his feet, etc.) He insinuated that they might have been attracted to him physically - but I think that the way LCM taught allowed a lot of people to fill in the blanks. I was in the 11th corps and I didn't hear that teaching other than the way I just gave it to you.
Oddly enough, during the Corinthians Corps night teachings either Dr or W*lter C&mmings taught explicitly that it was WRONG for a man to touch a woman other than his wife in a sexual manner.
Now, I wonder how people got around that......?"
Per GrouchoMarxJr:
Per HCW:
Per GarthP2000:
Per Oakspear:
QUOTE(Eagle @ Dec 27 2005, 12:55 AM)
Did I read right on this thread? There are a few here that do not care about the Bible anymore? If that is true, did TWI have anything with turning you off to it?
If so, could anyone think to check out some other church or ministry?
Just curious.
Eagle
--------
Per Bramble:
Per Hope R:
QUOTE
Somewhere along the way I lost my trust and enjoyment of the Bible and Christian God in general. Can't pin point when or where, expect it was a cumulation of years of stuff. To me, it screams--this is unsafe, stay away.
Bramble - your post is almost a carbon copy of where I'm at as well- including the splinter group and church experiences (though we only tried one).
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A Little Comparison of B.G Leonard's Ministry
and
V.P. Wierwille's Business Called The Way, Inc.
By Patrick Robergevia recent post by dmiller in the Leonard vs. Wierwille thread
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
B.G. Leonard
V.P.Wierwille and TWI
A Few Personal Comparisons
"Unofficial Title" Brother Leonard
Official Title: Dr. Wierwille (paid for)
A ministry of salvation,
deliverance - A business of running classes
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Leonard died peacefully of old age at 94
VPW died of cancer (a supposed "devil spirit" according to TWI beliefs)
Leonard's books were his original work
Wierwille's books were heavily plagiarized from other authors
Leonard was never involved in any inappropriate scandal,
or behavior involving his students or congregants
There are numerous allegations of Wierwille's improprieties
with his students and congregants which would be a grossly
unethical betrayal of the ministerial relationship.
Leonard was teaching his gifts of the spirit course and
preaching long before the way inc. existed.
Wierwille was a student in Leonard's gifts of the spirit class
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A Few Organizational Comparisons
Leonard and his students never claimed to be God's only chosen group.
Wierwille taught his students to be spiritual elitists and that only they had the truth
Leonard never differentiated between groups, but accepted all Christians as brothers.
Wierwille taught his followers to shun other Christian religions as evil etc.....
(Leonard) Materials and classes available to anyone having a need,
and making a donation appreciated but not demanded
(vpw) Materials and classes only available to the members, and must be paid for.
(Leonord) Built a system from scratch of dozens of internationally accredited schools
(vpw) Bought 2 existing schools and tried to keep the accreditations, but only
succeeded with the Rome City Location
Leonard's full bible class is a one year full time study, and available through the mail.
The course is available to anyone regardless of affiliation, and the grads
are not trained in secular business practices as the grads are expected to stay
with their own group or church.
The way inc. only extensive "bible study" is the way corps which is only available for
leaders, who are committed to the goals of the way, inc.
The focus of the "classes" is not strictly biblical knowledge, but leadership
indoctrination and the business of the way inc.
Leonard and his grads help anyone regardless of religious affiliation,
an example of true Christian brotherhood.
Leonard participated in cooperative projects like revivals with other groups
and ministers who put winning people to Christ as the focus.
Current TWI followers stick with "their own" and do not associate with other groups,
or participate in cooperative projects like revivals etc. The winning of people is not to Christ,
but to the way inc.
Taught ministers who were sent home to their churches
Built an empire of affiliate businesses/fellowships all paying affiliate fees (tithing) to HQ
Students who take classes come and go as they please.
No commitment to an organization is required or possible.
Involvement with TWI fellowships is mandatory to take their classes.
Gut wrenching scene upon leaving the "only true household" for those
who choose to not continue participating.....
No B.G. Leonard fellowships/affiliates, and no leadership structure.
TWI fellowships/affiliates with tightly controlled leadership structure.
A Few Doctrinal Comparisons
Students are expected to be born again and operating the worship gifts
before taking Gifts of the Spirit course.
There is no intermediate or advanced class as all 9 gifts
are taught and operated in one course.
twi - Students are made to wait until the 12th session to get born again, and before that
is frowned upon by leadership. Must take intermediate class to do interpretation
and prophecy, and the advanced class for the other 6 gifts.
Leonard felt that having Holy Spirit is essential to understanding scripture as
1 Corinthians 2:14 states. His class therefore starts with born again students
V.P. Wierwille ignores 1 Corinthians 2:14 in the arrangement of his foundational class,
yet ironically teaches this verse to students
(Leonard) Students practice all 9 gifts while taking the course. At a few evening
services, the students minister to those wanting healing under the direct
revelation and instruction of the class instructor.
The students go home knowing how to operate all 9 gifts.
(vpw) Students only practice the 3 worship gifts, and not the other 6 revelation
and impartation gifts. They go home from the "advanced class" with no hands on
guided ministering. Students are left to guess how to operate the other 6 gifts....
Leonard uses biblical term Gifts of the spirit and its intended meaning with consistent results
Wierwille does a whole teaching on why it should be manifestations,
changes its biblical meaning resulting in spotty results
B.G. Leonard's Grads represented Christ and operated their ministries of reconciliation
with endless signs, miracles, and wonders too numerous to keep track of.
(twi's) ministry's main purpose was the ministry of running the next class.
The few miracles that ever happened are endlessly talked about for years,
as they are far and few between
Biblical doing with signs, miracles and wonders too countless to number
Endless straining of knats called "biblical research" which is really neither.
It is a systematic indoctrination to get the new members to bow to the party line.
Leonard grads main purpose is to witness Christ, and not the classes offered.
Ministering is made available to anyone.
TWI grads main purpose while witnessing is to bring people to fellowship and sign them up for classes. Ministering is only available to those attending fellowships.
Simple faith aided by Christ which works, and without self-recriminations if it is not yet time...
The chore of getting your believing up yourself without Christ's help, and the accompanying self and leadership incriminations for failure
Obedience to God and acting on previously given scriptural revelation unless warned off.
Disobedience to God by waiting for second revelation (green light revelation)
instead of acting in accordance to previous revelation in the scriptures
Legal Disclaimer: The above comparison is the personal opinion of the author
Per likeaneagle in the Lest the ministry be blamed thread:
Per OM:
My opinion. Both NO & yes on the surface. NO when all aspects are factored in.
Nevertheless, this opinion does not negate in the least the phenomenal amount of benevolence done by the public exposure of TWI which was accomplished via WayDale via the Allens, which exposue ostensibly led to the development of gsc, whose posters continues to expose the thought reform, fraud, misrepresentations, deceptions, lies, & plagiarism of the TWI scam 'ministry.'
I would have to surmise that a major reason for not proceding to trial was the emotional toll that it would take on the Allens, especially Fern, in view of the inevitable quesions she would have been asked by TWI's degenerate Counsel regarding very personal and sensitive issues. The Allens could have probably increased their litigation return by 500-1000% by going to trial. Apparently the obviation of the emotional stress factor was worth the 'hit' of a lesser settlement, & the roulette of a jury trial.
However, there is litigation ongoing, Peeler vs. TWI et. al., which appears to be proceding to jury trial in approximately September 2006. While it is possble that the Peelers would settle out of court, my opinion is that it would be highly unlikely. The infrastructure of this litigation began in 08/2001, the case being filed in 06/2002, with the Peelers perservering through a series of TWI cowardly legal obstructions up to the present.
Hopefully this jury trial will publically conclude what the admirable courage of the Allen's initiated.
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From the thread, Recruitment Tools:
Per rascal:
per Samurai:
Per Belle:
Per WhiteDove:
__________________________________As was said, the TWI rank & file members were generally deceived into thinking that TWI’s various open functions, oozing with recruitment, were somehow something good & needful for the ‘new people.’
All of us are transiently vulnerable to cult recruitment. So many cults, using so many guises and ploys, are actively looking for members at any given moment that surely there may be a cult for you. Whatever your age, whatever your interests, whatever your life-style, succumbing to the lure of a cultic recruiter is as easy as getting a library card. There are as many ways to become involved with a cult as there are cults.
Each group develops its own recruitment methods – ranging from personal contacts to public explanations to musical events, in newspapers and magazines, and on television and radio. The original point of recruitment may vary, but one constant factor is that rampant deceptions are involved. These deceptions extend from concealment of exactly what the group is at “the point of pick up” to concealment of the ultimate purpose of membership. These deceptions lie at the heart of a lack of informed consent.
The above is of course the essence of TWI’s sales’ classes: the Witnessing & Undersheperding seminar once offered ‘on the field,’ & Christian Motivational Techniques, taught to the Way Corps.
As noted above, cults aim their recruitment at vulnerable people because these individuals are less likely to see through the multiple layers of deceit. In TWI’s recruiting methodology, individuals suffering a transient vulnerability were said to have “needs.” A major focus of TWI recruitment is determining these so-called “needs” in order to manipulate the potential recruit.
We, the rank & file, then essentially became deployable agents of corporate TWI.
In my opinion we {ex-twi} were neither naïve or foolish, but just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time with a transient vulnerability.
When we hear of cults, scams, and individuals' being controlled and influenced by others, we instinctively try to separate ourselves from these persons. It seems a point of valor and self-esteem to insist that "no one could get me to do such things" when hearing about situations of intense influence. Just as most soldiers believe bullets will hit only others, most people tend to believe that their own minds and thought processes are invulnerable, contributing to the 'Not me" myth.
People like to think that their opinions, values, and ideas are inviolate and totally self-regulated. They may grudgingly admit that they're influenced by advertising. Beyond that, however, people want to preserve the comfortable myth that only other people are weak-minded and easily influenced while they are strong-minded. Even though we all now know that human minds are open to influence – whether or not that is a comfortable consideration – most of us defensively feel that we could never be scammed, even by master exploitative manipulators such as vpw & lcm.
There is an almost universal aversion to accepting the idea that we ourselves are vulnerable to covert coercive packaged persuasion.
So my opinion is that we were all scammed by the cultic manipulative influence techniques of TWI's unethical compliance professionals, vpw & lcm. Hopefully we will no longer blame ourselves and feel foolish or naive.
Per OM to rascal:
No one, OM, not even you, freely made decisions after having been exposed to TWI’s strategically coordinated programs of non-consented covert packaged persuasion. You may have the perception of freely made decisions, but in fact this is a strategic, TWI-induced misperception, predominantly of the implicit rather than the explicit type.
Once a person has been subjected to having their general reality orientation destabilized, & subsequently experienced TWI’s thought reform, a distinction regarding any person has to be between: I & “I;” you & “you;” he or she & “he or she;” me & “me,” etc.
For those poor souls with a ‘good take’ Post thought reform, TWI has unethically altered the person’s mind such that they are no longer their true historical self, but rather a TWI-induced pseudo-self & pseudo-identity. No person operating from the vantage point of a cult-induced pseudo-self is freely making decisions. Essentially everything is perceived through the false cultic filter.
Once exiting TWI, as many of us here can attest, it takes years to be rid of the major vestiges of TWI’s thought reform. We ex-twi will probably never be able to rid ourselves totally of the detrimental effects of TWI’s rape of the mind.
OM, do not confuse bogus 'VMP' [victim mentality propaganda] with very real BTV {Blaming The Victim}. Perhaps you have been drinking the elixir of aloofness of the insensitive pro-cult apologists?
Two well-known social phenomena – blaming the victim & the just world concept – have been studied by social psychologists who have traced their origins to primitive times.
Blaming victims is an almost universal response to misfortune happening to others. In our society there is a strong taboo on being victimized through scams, influence, and deceptions. Attempts to break this irrational taboo tends to make the cult victim even more scorned.
When someone goes into a cult, the tendency for society is to say that there must be something wrong with that person. There must be some personal defect, otherwise he or she would not have joined such a group. Since the general public continues to regard cult members as stupid, crazy, and weak-minded, the near-universal response is: “It’s his or her fault. He or she went out looking for what they got.”
The tendency to blame victims prevents both lay and professional persons from seeing that most individuals who become involved in cultic relationships are a type of victim insufficiently recognized and understood. The person is irrationally blamed for being a seeker, gullible, or mentally aberrant. However, the thought reform programs of the cult are overlooked in this dimwitted 'VMP' appraisal.
There are 5 classes of generally recognized victims: victims of violent crimes; victims of natural disasters and serious illnesses; victims of terrorists and kidnappers; victims of civil torts; &, a final 5th class overlapping the fourth, victims of enforced dependency.
Victims of enforced dependency have been subjected to non-consented thought reform processes. In essence, a thought reform program is a behavioral reconstruction program, a coordinated program of systematic manipulation using both psychological and social techniques.
Basic to the just world concept is the widely held belief that if a person obeys the rules of society, nothing bad will happen to him or her. Rule-breakers, on the other hand, get punished. Punishment comes in the form of bad luck, disasters, illness, loss. Thus victims of any disaster, crime, illness, or misfortune automatically fall into this bogus category of supposedly blameworthy people. This primitive reasoning goes something like this: “ Since I feel protected from evil and misfortune if I obey the rules – because it is a just world – then I can separate myself from those who come to harm. They must have done something bad to have bad things happen to them.”
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Per Penguin:
____________Yes my wife & I most definitely have these issues since departing from TWI post LCM’s 04/2000 ‘announcement’ which sounded all too familiar to the 1986-87 POP non-announcement. “Once burned, twice shy; twice burned, may wish to die.”
We feel that TWI has destroyed our ability to have a meaningful relationship with God. In fact, we don’t even know if God exists. In fact, we are not sure we now even care, even though we would like to care. We remain open minded but continue in our TWI-induced distrust of the entire ‘spiritual’ category.
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Synopsis of my post from the SNAPPING thread:
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From the Suicide in the Way thread:
Per Catcup:
Per Dot Matrix:
Per washingtonweather:
Per rascal:
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