Thanks for the Liberty Lobby & Spotlite info!!! I did not know of veepee's close connection & subscription status, but in retrospect {ex-twi} it does not surprise me.
Like most other wayfers, I thought these political conspiracies were via revelation to the Corn Wizard.
This material was useful to vpw in his coordinated program of coercive packaged persusasion with which the Wizard beguiled us.
We all thought it was true, but as usual, TWI was just exploitatively manipulating us with FEAR motivation.
Which again, the Corn Wizard teaching in pfal that fear is the believers enemy, it is paradoxically interesting that TWI purposefully routinely utilized fear as a motivator. Hypocrisy is the least of what it is. This type of fear motivation was just another manipulative tool in TWI's thought reform program.
JkBoehme, I don't know ifyou know this, but VPW was a member of the Liberty Lobby. I still have my "Secret Constitution" written by the Liberty Lobby VPW distributed to the 5th and 7th corps, with the full page ad on the inside back page to subscribe to the Spotlight - the Liberty Lobby's magazine. ...
The Newstates Constitution was an actual document that was written by a guy named Tugwell, financed by the Ford Foundation.
That was not written by, but exposed, by Liberty Lobby...
Poor choice of words. I know the Liberty Lobby didn't write it. They distributed it.
Also JK, the books carried in the bookstore that caused so much consternation - The Myth of the Six million, The Thirteenth Tribe, etc. were only carried and distributed by one organization - who else - Liberty Lobby. He did his best to indoctrinate to the white supremist, conspiracy way of thinking.
the books carried in the bookstore that caused so much consternation - The Myth of the Six million, The Thirteenth Tribe, etc. were only carried and distributed by one organization - who else - Liberty Lobby. He did his best to indoctrinate to the white supremist, conspiracy way of thinking.
My primary concern, as I have stated on many posts, is TWI’s unethical (? illegal) CONDUCT.
Nevertheless, I am constantly galled the more I find out about veepee’s misrepresentations, fraud, deceit, plagiarism, & hate-mongering {aka, per psychiatrist, Dr. Robert Lifton, MD, as “dispensing of existence”}.
VPW represented to us that all of this spiritual-political conspiracy stuff was via revelation from God to him as the (supposed) Man of God ostensibly so that we could protect & ensure the perpetuation of the one true ministry on the face of the earth, TWI. All the preparations we made were so much wasted time and money.
Also, this fear-based artificial campaign by veepee to distract us & keep us overly busy was the prototype for martinpuke’s Y2K fear-based (unnecessary) preparations.
1976- America Awakes. We heard rumors of the secret rewrite of the constitution. I recall something about the Illuminati, and I remember seeing various John Birch writings which tried to prove our fears. My thoughts were that fear was the devil's thing, and we should not have it. It seemed like we were the last stand of defense. It became very spiritual and secret. We all read "None Dare Call it Conspiracy" We prayed, we did several 24 hour of prayer things, simply said, we were told we saved the country. We were the TRUE patriots. The music caravan, motorcoach etc toured the country. We celebrated "God's" victory. I thought it was silly and superficial.
More documentation of TWI promoting right wing extremist views with the intent of motivating TWI members with FEAR.
"…I think it would be safe to say that all leaders of Dangerous Cults whether political or religious, such as Koresh, Jones, Manson, Idi Amin, Bin Ladin, and a host of others, are sociopaths. The picture is always about them, their wants, their feelings, their ideas. They generally lack ability to truly see things from others points of view or, if perchance they do manage to do so, what they view is held up to the standard of "how does this affect me…"
"…Sociopaths do, however, prey on the weak, the confused, the hurting. These people are most prone to idolize anyone who can 'lead" them. Sociopath's lack the willingness to discourage such "hero worship" since it is the gas for their engines, so to speak…"
So which of the categories below do VPW & LCM not fit into?
Sociopath: One who is affected with a personality disorder marked by antisocial behavior..
Psychopath: a mentally ill or unstable individual; one having an antisocial personality.
Maniac:A person who has an excessive enthusiasm or desire for something. A person who acts in a wildly irresponsible way. Characterized by excessive enthusiasm or excitement.
Megalomaniac: A psychopathological condition characterized by delusional fantasies of wealth, power, or omnipotence. An obsession with grandiose or extravagant things or actions.
Narcissist: psychological condition characterized by self-preoccupation, lack of empathy, and unconscious deficits in self-esteem. Erotic pleasure derived from contemplation or admiration of one's own body or self, especially as a fixation on or a regression to an infantile stage of development.
Manipulator: To influence or manage shrewdly or deviously.
Exploitative: To make use of selfishly or unethically.
Machiavellian: Suggestive of or characterized by expediency, deceit, and cunning.
***************************************
Fold TWI, FOLD!
"...That this work of ours may lead to victories for the age to come. The victors may not remember us, and if so, what matter? For them shall be the joy, the victories, and the praise. Ours will be the glory of the fathers in the sons..."
“…My daughters, at least one of them anyway , is the age where friends of mine were started to be pressured to have sex with wierwille and martindale....
It was ok according to wierwilles religious beliefs too...it was also ok to destroy these vulnerable youngsters when they wouldn`t be pressured.....there were a lot of sick things that were ok to be practiced in wierwilles religion....that doesn`t make it right spiritually, ethically, morally or legally.
It brings it home all over again how perverted these sick old bastards were to force themselves on these innocents…”
Yeah, that’s what deceitful Corn Wizards do.
It seems to me the most fundamental aspect of the deception was the entire thought reform umbrella of TWI.
Once a wayfer was conveniently waybrained, the pressure to go WOW, Corps, or have sex with the mogfarts, was manipulatively promoted and exploitatively construed by TWI leadership to be an indication of the depth of one’s commitment, dedication & leadership potential.
Liberty Lobby was the subject of much criticism from all quarters of the political spectrum. While Liberty Lobby was founded as a conservative political organization (or, many would charge, with the intent of appearing to be a conservative organization while Carto's real views were that of a white supremacist), Willis Carto was known to hold strongly anti-Semitic views, and to be a devotee of the writings of Francis Parker Yockey, who was one of a handful of esoteric post-WWII writers who revered Adolf Hitler. Yockey, writing under the pseudonym of Ulick Varange, wrote a book entitled Imperium, which Willis Carto adopted as his own guiding ideology.
Many critics, including disgruntled former Carto associates as well as the Anti-Defamation League, have noted that Willis Carto, more than anybody else, was responsible for keeping organized anti-Semitism alive as a viable political movement during the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s, when it was otherwise completely discredited.
Liberty Lobby attempted to promote a public image of being a conservative anti-Communist group, along the lines of the John Birch Society, but while the John Birch Society rejected white supremacy and anti-Semitism, Liberty Lobby promoted them. Francis Parker Yockey's Imperium was republished by Willis Carto's Noontide Press, which also published a number of other books and pamphlets promoting a racialist and white supremacist world view, and Liberty Lobby in turn sold and promoted these books.
While Liberty Lobby was intended to occupy the niche of a conservative anti-Communist group, Willis Carto was meanwhile building other organizations which would take a much more explicit neo-Nazi orientation. Among these were the National Youth Alliance, a Willis Carto-founded organization that eventually became the National Alliance when Carto lost control of it and it fell into the hands of William Pierce. The National Alliance is considered to be the most notorious neo-Nazi group currently operating in the United States. Also founded by Carto was the Institute for Historical Review, a group known for publishing books and articles that argue that the extent of the Nazi Holocaust is exaggerated by mainsteam historians (see Holocaust Revisionism). As with the National Youth Alliance and Noontide Press, the Institute for Historical Review also fell out of Carto's hands in a hostile internal struggle.
Liberty Lobby, however, remained under the control of Carto until the end. During the 1970s, as the old anti-Communism of the 1950s and 1960s fell out of favor, Carto redefined the public image of Liberty Lobby, increasingly taking on the public image of populist rather than conservative or right-wing. In 1975, Liberty Lobby began publishing a weekly newspaper called The Spotlight, which ran news and opinion articles with a very populist and anti-establishment slant on a variety of subjects, but gave little indication of being extreme-right or neo-Nazi. However, The Spotlight, critics charged, was intended as a subtle recruiting tool for the extreme right, using populist-sounding articles to attract people from all points on the political spectrum including liberals, moderates, and conservatives, and special-interest articles to attract people interested in such subjects as alternative medicine, while the newspaper subtly incorporated anti-Semitic and white racialist undertones in its articles, and carried advertisements in the classified section for openly neo-Nazi groups and books. The Spotlight for a while became the most widely-read periodical on the right in the United States, with circulation peaking around 200,000 in the early 1980s. While circulation experienced a steady drop after that, it continued to be published until Liberty Lobby's demise in 2001.
In 2001, Liberty Lobby and Willis Carto lost a lawsuit brought by a rival far-right group which had earlier gained control of the Institute for Historical Review, and the ensuing judgement bankrupted the organization. Willis Carto and others who had been involved in publishing The Spotlight have since started a new newspaper, the American Free Press, which is very similar in overall tone to The Spotlight. As an organization, Liberty Lobby is defunct.
OM, I refuse to enter into a battle with you. It's just too dang frustrating. You already know how I feel and I already know how you feel and we're just never going to agree on this.
Good Move Belle...would be frustrating argument. OM can't give you ANY example of VeePee doing anything altruistic. Doesn't exist. Same with loy-boy. If you can't see that they were both in it for the money and the sex you are blind.
But, OM will give example after example of altruistic behavior (that can be refuted by anyone with 2 licks of common sense) until he wears you down on it.
Here are some excellent quotes from those 4 archival threads recommended by Mark:
Per Sunesis:
I've posted this before, but will do so in condensed form.
Why did VP have this stuff? Because he was a member of the Liberty Lobby, which also printed a magazine called the Spotlight.
The Liberty Lobby is an organization based in WashingtonD.C. that is a political "front" for White Supremist groups. It is the "respectable" political umbrella for these various white supremist organizations.
7th corps, remember our "secret constitution" that was passed out to us? I still have it. Right on the inside back cover is an order form to subscribe to the Spotlight and membership in the Liberty Lobby.
All his advanced class tapes regarding the Illuminati, Trilateral Commission, etc. - the "heavy" stuff that was taught, were tapes that came from the Liberty Lobby.
VP also had a "hotline" number he could call with all the latest conspiracy updates. This came straight from someone who worked closely with him. Remember Malpack? Head for the hills? We must stand or our country is going to fall? All this was brought to you courtesy of the Liberty Lobby. VP then taught it and acted like it was his revelation.
Remember the Jim Jones suicides, how it was really done by the government, etc.? Thank you Liberty Lobby!
Remember when Wheaties Box and Olympic star Bob Richards came to speak to us at corps week one year? Gee, he was the Populist Party (they are the political arm of the Liberty Lobby) presidential candidate that year - what a coincidence he would take time out of his busy schecule to talk to us and schmooze with VP.
Those of you who have those books, one of them, the Myth of the 6 million, or 13th Tribe is only published by the Liberty Lobby's bookstore.
VP was a white supremist, but it was not something he spoke about in public. Sorry to burst anyone's bubble. Research the Liberty Lobby.
Sunesis, cont:
used to visit HQ in '71 while still in high school, we had moved from NY to Columbus, so it was an easy trip. We knew people there, would hang out in friends' units, etc. I had seen some spotlight magazines at one time - I forget exactly where or when - they were more like large pamplets. That's why when we got our new "secret constitutions" and there was the Spotlight subscription form, I thought, oh - nothing really about it, but oh, yeah, I've seen this before.
I think Igotout put a copy of the back cover here in a thread once - I think he still has his also.
I had always wondered where VP got all this "top secret" "heavy" government info he only shared in the advanced class. It wasn't until I read the book years later on staff that everything fell into place.
Also, quite a few of his top guys were avid readers of Soldier of Fortune Magazine - you know survival stuff, etc. I read it for awhile on the recommendation of one Rev. while on staff at hq. VPs bodyguards were sent for training at one of these militia camps in the southwest. I know they were thrown out of one, and ended up training at another. Just, a lot of b.s. stuff went on.
Per Socks:
I've done some poking around trying to get a better grip on the foundations for the "law of believing" as it's so often articulated in religious teaching. One of the most striking examples I found was the belief in Xeper ("Khefer"), or "coming in to being", going back to Eqyptian religious "cult" beliefs. The ritualistic approach to perparing a physical and mental place for the future you want to "bring in to being" struck me as being very similar to the rituals many Christians will set up to build an alternate reality to the one they perceive - one they're "believing" to come into being. Those who pursue Xeper as a philosphy often view "the prince of darkness" as a ruling power of this universe whose image was confiscated by Christian religions and turned in to the Devil. So for them, it's a matter of perspective.
Thanks Sunesis. I stopped short with my example. The only person I've talked to about this idea of "Xeper" led me to investigate it a little more and I saw so many similarities to some "Christian" thinking, but from a very different perspective. One was that a "master" race of enlightened people was inevitable, it was just a matter of how organized they were towards their goals that would determine their impact. Impact socially, intellectually, artistically, etc. was expected and desired. Equality was embraced but with the understanding that not everyone was going to be enlightened.
There wasn't an aggression towards those who wouldn't be but an understanding that those who did would achieve true levels of personal growth and would "tap" in to higher levels of power. Domination of lesser minded people would be the progression by natural process. In fact, understanding that would allow a person to not get hung up in all of the world's problems that aren't going to be solved for some people no matter what. They could be solved by intellectually and spiritually evolved people but ultimately everyone could opt in at some level. If it was simply to get the benefits that part of the population would be ruled by those who have the solutions.
Where this differs from standard capitalism is that the real goal isn't greed, personal gain for it's own reward and at other's expense. Rather it's for the purpose of acheiving one's own "real" purpose in life, being who they are truly destined to be by being free of the restrictions of accepted moral thought and following their god. This follower of Xeper assumed they would be superior by virtue of the fact that they weren't bound personally by the limitations of religion, politics, etc. The morals that result from this and from following their god -the prince of darkness- would be the "right ones" but may be very different from standard Golden Rule stuff. Alternative pursuits and experience could and would lead a person into enlightenment, extreme stuff like pain, or it might be academic pursuits. The possibilities are endless.
So with ths you'll dominate as a natural result and there will be those who follow, serve and support the superior individual. "It's as it should be" is how it would be viewed.
A merciful God who loves everyone, forgives, gives altruistically doesn't figure in the same way. "Mercy" isn't really a factor. People get what they achieve, period. If the result of that is one's the master, the other the slave, that's what they've achieved for themselves. It's an interesting view and not completely foreign when I look at some of the Ways' specific teachings on believing, rewards, giving and receiving.
By emphasizing the individual out of context with the "body" you can end up in a similar mindset, an enlightened group of "discplined" ones who "really" run the world. Who are "advancing" and have the "advantage" in life. Who accept that people are to be treated differently because some aren't as good as they are.
Then, by emphasizing that the individual is nothing without the "household" you end up with a captive congregation. People have to stay to survive by that logic, even if it's at a subjugated level of participation. Better to stay and get beat up on than leave and "die". Without all of the rest of the teaching of Jesus and the N.T. balancing it constantly it will get pretty weird, as we've seen in the Way over the years.
Per Microbe:
I recently saw "A Beautiful Mind" and wonder if that was not where our MOG was? (Not that he had a "beautful" mind, the delusions I mean.) I remember him telling the Corps about the times he would sit in a chair in his "room" for hours and hours, under such incredible stress that all he could do was hang on until it was clear that Michael had won that particular battle. It required his total concentration and nothing helped. People (his wife etc) had to just leave him alone in the dark for extended periods of time. He described it as something like mental torture. He stood in the GAP! He never mentioned Jesus Christ as far as I remember. At the time it sounded to me (not a doctor - ok) like the man was suffering anxiety attacks. He also said he had trouble sleeping and was seeking medical attention. His MD, a believer, of course dismissed this and calmed his concerns about mental stress. Of course he was sound minded-he just had to save the world!
Per toto:
Anyway, I only remember a couple of things -- lots of chatter about gold and some discussion on wilderness survival. The most shocking thing I remember is some big-wig (perhaps VP himself) saying that if it came down to the survival of you or your children, the children should be sacrificed because "you hold the word" -- and then some insanity about how you could make more.
It was so hush-hush that we had to gather up our notes and hand them in late at night to be disposed of -- I think they were burnt.
Per Sunesis:
Boy, sounds like one of VPW's private inner teachings. Sacrifice your kids you can always have more.... No wonder abortion to him was no big deal.
This piece of advice goes beyond all human instinct and decency. Most parents in a war situation, will do anything and everything, to the point of giving up their lives, so that their children will survive. I think about the Jews who shipped their kids off to England or other places to live with strangers during the war. Many of those kids parents never came to claim them after the war.
No question, every parent I know would sacrifice their life for their child if circumstances mandated they do so.
Makes you wonder about what VP thought of his own kids, makes you wonder, was VP without "natural affection" for his children. That statement shows an extremely narcissisitic, cold person.
Per QamiQazi:
This was a "spectacle." It was calculated to induce paranoia and obedience.
We were so impressed if something was "heavy." Heavy stuff, man. We were living in the Old Testament, heads filled with wizardry (we called it "power" but hell, we may as well have called it "the Force" since God had nothing to do with it).
It was evidence of being "spiritual" if it was:
- revealed with an air of mystery or urgency
- capricious
- illogical
- shocking
- referenced anywhere in the Word by a certified "man of God"
- and of course, if it was in any way "heavy"
We just sucked that stuff up. Who needed to play "Dungeons and Dragons?" We were living it. It was a dark carnival, costumed in biblical jargon, a dog and pony show, where we began as the audience and became the dogs and the ponies. The bible could convince us of anything they wanted it to. And it did.
Per LarryP2:
The man's astonishing lack of prophetic ability never ceases to amaze me. Let's see, in slightly over a decade, Soviet communism would utterly collapse from its own internal contradictions, it's massive military undone without firing a shot, and its discredited ideology cast on the "ash heap of history."
I remember well the summer of 1990 when I lived in Europe. You knew something very very big was in the air, and it had nothing to do with the grim vicicitudes of war. It was all peace and love and all us guys gawking at naked Israeli chicks on the beaches of GreekIslands. Ol' Gorby was everybody's hero.
The average drunken Romanian chimney sweep in the bars in downtown Athens had more intuition about the future of communism than Weirwille did. "Communishum sucks Baby." The Russians were absolutely certain that in a few days the Soviet Union would become a little America with Mcdonalds on every corner and nobody would have to work or eat beet soup or rotten potatoes ever again. It was quite a shock coming as an ideology-addled undergraduate from America.
We had more important things to worry about in 1979, like exploding gas tanks on Pintos, heat rash from all that double-knit polyester, and falling off our platform disco shoes.
You heard it on a tape that JAL did when he first left TWI. He said that Geer was the one who was into all the survival, espionage type stuff and really influenced VP a great deal. I've heard that from others who were in the Corps with CG as well.
Conspiracy theories abounded in TWI. From Peter Beter (yes, that was his name), who was sure the Russians had some kind of beam weapons that hovered over the earth that could cause earthquakes or vaporize ships, buildings, airplanes - you name it. I think he was the man who brought that "New Constitution" stuff to TWI as well.
There was also a bunch of information spewed out about a secret organization called "The Illumanati" who were supposedly in favor of one world government and believed that world bankers, who were mostly Jews, manipulated all the nations on earth.
And of course, there was our beloved Beatle blaster, David Noebel who believed that Rock and Roll was a communist plot to win over the minds of America's youth and cause a revolution - in which the Russians were prepared to step in and take over.
Most of the theories were about the "New World Order" and the evils of the United Nations, The Council on Foreign Relations, the Freemasons and any other powerful world organization that wasn't Christian in nature.
"None Dare Call It Conspiracy" by Gary Allen was the basis for all this paranoia.
Then later, after I graduated, LCM took over and instituted the MAL packs (Mobile something or other)and we on the field had to be ready to duck and cover when the Commies came to take over by having enough food and water stored in our homes for at least 6 months.
I can't remember all of the conspiracy theories - but they seemed to be endless. I know they weren't a part of TWI when I got involved - they came a few years later. It is very possible that CG introduced them to VP and TWI. Anyone else know?
Per ex10:
OK, I'll tell what I know about the whole MAL fiasco at Emporia when the 8th and 10th were in-rez. Like any good reporter, I can't reveal my source, but it was someone who was very close to that situation.
When VPW came to Emporia talking about the world as we knew it falling apart, etc., etc. LCM, in his usual style, over-reacted. He was the one (with the help of a couple of 8th corps who were equally stupid) who thought up the whole MAL backpack, head for the hills, we all had to go underground program. It was all LCM. I know for sure that CG had nothing to do with that.
I don't think that CG introduced the Paranoia conspiracy stuff. VPW was that way all on his own, but CG definitely FED it, and like LCM, tended to over react, in typical form. You gotta remember, that LCM was extrememly loyal to VP, and thought that everything out of his mouth was revelation, as did CG. When VP called his corps meetings and scared the heck out of everybody letting his paranoia show, LCM felt it was his responsibility as Director of the Corps (remember he still lived at Emporia, not HQ yet) to follow through and devise a plan of escape for the corps.
I know when I find this stuff out after the POOP explosion, it helped me put some puzzling pieces of life in WayWorld together, and further conviced me that LCM was unstable and not to be trusted. Maybe it will help someone else as well.
Per TheEvan:
Get this...MAL meant More Abundant Life!
HAWHAWHAWHAWHAWHAWSNORT!
Zix, Geer & I took the advanced class together in '71 and Wierwille was a full-tilt conspiracy nut already. As an avid and serious minded Wierwille-worshipper, Geer took it from Wierwille and ran with it. He was a creepy roomate, btw. I liked the other guys in the cabin better...John Nave, Bruce Mahone, etc...I had a blast.
To quote Peter Beter (yes, pronounced Beater) "THE DYNASTY HAS TAKEN ALLLLLLL THE GOLD!"
Per igotout:
Quote from VPW to me and another girl named Cathy in 1978:
"Kids, there's no gold left in Ft.Knox. If the interest rates go down by one more point our country is finished."
Stunned, I said what can we do about it. He said there is no hope left for our country except the ministry and moving God's Word.
Per grasshopper:
I just thought of 2 more wierd Way things:
When I took Marty's very first PFAL AC, I remember him getting up at lunch and talking about how he believed the US Government was behind the OklahomaFederalBuilding bombing. Basically blamed Clinton saying he set it up so he could build up his popularity by handling a national tragedy.
I also remember my local way corps telling me that Al Gore had a plan for international genocide so he could save the earth from over-population.
Jeez, dumba**es like me would just eat that stuff up and believe it. Maybe it's because I always liked Sci-Fi.
Per LarryP2:
The heck of it all is that Weirwille had all these gullible people flocking to his cult, and they paid like sin for unvarnished swill. What garbage! How can anyone have fond recollections of this cult when it so obviously was designed to nakedly skin alive gullible and tenderminded people as efficiently as possible?
Per igotout:
Grasshopper, I too heard LCM say specifically that the government orchestrated the OK City bombing and that McVeigh was simply a pawn in the game. It was in a private Corps meeting in RomeCity.
Among other loud rantings he said something like "Why is it that no Federal government workers were at work that day in the building?!!" I thought that was an odd thing to say and obviously untrue.
He really believed it. He always used to get real mad when a huge world event happened. And of course he always seemed to have the "real truth" behind it before long and would find an audience to yell it to, usually the submissive Way Corps whom he forced to sit at his smelly feet, while they scribbled furiously on their notepads.
Frankly, I think some of this dumbass thinking comes from minds that can not handle facing the harsh realities of life. Some sort of an escape mechanism or deep denial.
Per Buck:
I know you guys have sort of moved on from the "MAL" thing, but I just gotta weigh in here. I was in the Tenth Corps, and it was in October of '79 (I think it was October)
EX10, Do you remember the first night the whole thing came down? It was really scary. I remember Richard Thomas getting up front and dropping the first bombshell. I can almost quote it verbatim. He said; "How many of you can go back to your dorms and pack up a duffel bag, or back pack, or suitcase that you could live out of, survive out of for the next two years in the wilderness and be back here in fifteen minutes?" And EX10, weren't we then sent to our dorms right then to do just that? That part is foggy. I thought we did. But I do remember getting back and then having a major powow about it. I remember Craig standing up there talking about an economic collapse, and there being anarchy in the streets, and looters and rioters in the streets and that we in the Corps had to stay alive to keep the Word alive. And then, one of our sweet sisters from Scotland, Allison Smith, stood up and with her extremely strong Scottish brogue, stood up and said; "Craig, we doon't knoow, what ye re talkin aboot. You are talkin' about guns and and survival and alot of things that're scairin us. And we from Europe are particulary scared because we are so far away from our hooms". And to that Craig screamed at her went on a major tirade about "someone caving your head in with a monkey wrench to take the bread you have under your arm so that they can feed it to their family " etc etc. There was also talk about the government mobilizing the military to put us all (all Americans that is) in "work camps" after the all of the guns had been collected, so that the anarchy could be put down and order restored. But really, once that order had been restored, we would stay in the work camps which really would be prison camps, once They got control of the citizenry.
And because of this immediate threat, we in the Corps had to head for the hills so that the Word could stay alive. And remember how things evolved? As the weeks went by, we had all broken into MAL groups like platoons? In fact I was a MAL group coordinator. Ooorah! We would meet in these groups and plan our ecscape, and see how everybody was doing when it came to aquiring the necessary MAL pack gear. Each person in the group had a different responsibility. We had a very cool group. One gal was a nurse and had lived in a commune in WashingtonState and had been good at growing organic gardens. I was the hunting/fishing guy, another gal had four different rifles and shot guns, another was a gal who was the identical twin to my girlfriend who was out on the field in Colorado. There were two other guys in the group.
Our plan was to head out to Creed, Colorado where I knew of some old silver mine shafts, and where I "thought" there would be plenty fish and game. On the way there, I would stop and pick up my girlfriend in Pueblo. We would wait out "the storm" in the mountains near Creed, and survive so the Word could live and then our lives could "continue to tell the story".
We had classes on "escape and evasion", one class was whipped together called "Abounding In The Wilderness" w/ Rev. John B. and as people began to get their MAL packs together and collect wool clothes that were best for survival purposes, the "style on campus" began to change too. People began to wear their heavy German Army wool pants to class, wool US Army sweaters, heavy hiking boots, and oh yea Balaklavas! Everybody had wool Balaklava hats! Remember that? We called it "The MAL Look" I can still see Bob and Constance Darnell all decked out in full MAL regalia walking along the circle drive...
I also remember everybody having to keep their gas tanks full at all times, and "red tagging any files in their Pendaflex file boxes that might be incriminating to them. You know, files that might have the addresses of our families in it or MAL info in them. These files were to be red tagged so that they could be dumped into the incinerator at a moments notice should the sign be given for us to "split out like a ball of mercury hit with a ball peen hammer" as I think Richard T said we were to do.
At one point, it was so organized that TWI just went and paid for everybody to have a "fully loaded" MAL pack, and all we had to do was pay it back by getting our sponsors to send more money. My whole pack cost around 300 dollars. But after we made the comittment to pay back TWI, then we had to go and meet with Rev. John B. so he could check on our progress in getting the money paid. Alot of us jokingly called him "Chairman MAL". He had a MAL Office somewhere up in the reaches of Kenyon Auditorium where these one on one conferences took place. I remember distinctly sitting in study hall in top floor Wierwille and having the AC come up and read a list of names and for these people to go "to The MAL Office" to see John, to see Chairman MAL. Finally, my name was called too. It seemed that everybody traded grim looks when we had to get up to go see Chairman MAL. But I finally got it paid off, and I still have alot of that stuff to this day. Good camping equipment really..
And we had alot of great teachings about survival and abounding in the wilderness. Alot of practical questions arose like: "What are the girls going to do when they have their periods?" The answer? SilkSea Sponges! These are small sponges from the sea that are about as big as a wallnut or a plum that could be used for this purpose. I'll always remember the day when the Silk Sea Sponges came in. Not all of the girls ordered them, but many did. And when they arrived via UPS or whatever, they were distributed up in top floor Wierwille during study hall. I can still see Gary M. up there when he first opened up a box of sponges. He put one in his mouth and started chewing on it and acting funny and making all the guys horse laugh and the girls go "Eeeewwww!" And then each gal was called to the front to pick up their sponges to the many more "horse laughs" from the boys. The girls were funny about it too by the way. I mean so many of us were becoming fast friends by then..
Yeah, MAl Pack. What a "time of adventure". After awhile we (at least me and a few of my friends) became so used to the idea, one pal just came out with it and said; "****, it's been almost two months of this now, I wish we would just get it over with and go do it. I mean think about it "Buck", us all being out there in the wild, livin off the fatta of the land, no rules but our own, fu--in on a flat rock out in the sunshine, I'm ready to go!"
Yeah, after awhile, after the idea had begun to settle in and didn't seem so scary after all. It gave "us men" a feeling of "cavalier bravado" ya know..
Oh brother, it was really weird huh? And, I will say that MAL officially stood for "Mobile Abundant Life". I know, Chairman MAL told me so..
Per George Aar:
I'm really not trying to exaggerate or be overly dramatic, but I think VP was more patterning himself after Hitler.
The empassioned calls to service, the ribbons, the pomp and ceremony. Even at the time I thought that the W.O.W. "pinning" event was reminiscent of a Hitler Youth Rally.
Yeah, and the idea that "the suggestion of a Man of God is tantamount to a command" is a really cool concept for a pompous, self-important, demi-god.
I also remember Mr. Wierwille's explanation of why he didn't serve in WWII. Something about a heart-wrenching decision that eventually resulted in him concluding that he could better serve by staying stateside and writing tepid religious tracts about victory. Yeah, how selfless of him...
Per GrouchoMarxJr:
I agree wholeheartedly with the Invisible Dan...Mr. Wierwille was more patterned after Hitler than anyone else I can think of. Remember how he pushed "The myth of the six million" and other fascist writings? I heard him say that Hitler had some "pretty good ideas" and "people didn't appreciate his leadership qualities from a historical perspective". Veepee loved the military analogies...that's one of the reasons that he was so upset at lcm's AOS. teachings. Martindale replaced the military comparisons with athletic terms. Old Vic never passed up an opprotunity to have military wafers dress up in full uniform for him and even salute him!!! He loved all the flag waving pomp...I'm surprised he didn't make the corps goosestep
Per WordWolf:
quote:
Originally posted by UncleHairy:
I agree wholeheartedly with the Invisible Dan...Mr. Wierwille was more patterned after Hitler than anyone else I can think of. Remember how he pushed "The myth of the six million" and other fascist writings?
On the internet, it's common to hear analogies and comparisons to Hitler. This would make such a claim easy to ignore, if vpw hadn't pushed "Myth of the Six Million" and didn't have a history of pushing a political agenda of his own. Does anyone know the name of any other fascism book he promoted?
I heard him say that Hitler had some "pretty good ideas" and "people didn't appreciate his leadership qualities from a historical perspective". Veepee loved the military analogies...that's one of the reasons that he was so upset at lcm's AOS. teachings. Martindale replaced the military comparisons with athletic terms.
Well, that answers a nagging question. We knew vpw wasn't anti-lcm's decisions because of lack of adherence to godly doctrine, but lack of reverence to vpw at the end. We also knew he was AGAINST AOS but we never heard WHY. NOW it makes a lot of sense. vpw was a military/political wannabe, lcm was an athletic wannabe. Both rewrote things to fit their favourite paradigms, mangling them in the process.
Old Vic never passed up an opprotunity to have military wafers dress up in full uniform for him and even salute him!!! He loved all the flag waving pomp...I'm surprised he didn't make the corps goosestep.
I'm not completely sure that wasn't simply more of his love of adulation and having people fawn over him 24/7 as much as a military thing...except he admired how the military commanded loyalty without questioning.
I agree wholeheartedly with the Invisible Dan...Mr. Wierwille was more patterned after Hitler than anyone else I can think of. Remember how he pushed "The myth of the six million" and other fascist writings?
On the internet, it's common to hear analogies and comparisons to Hitler. This would make such a claim easy to ignore, if vpw hadn't pushed "Myth of the Six Million" and didn't have a history of pushing a political agenda of his own. Does anyone know the name of any other fascism book he promoted?
I heard him say that Hitler had some "pretty good ideas" and "people didn't appreciate his leadership qualities from a historical perspective". Veepee loved the military analogies...that's one of the reasons that he was so upset at lcm's AOS. teachings. Martindale replaced the military comparisons with athletic terms.
Well, that answers a nagging question. We knew vpw wasn't anti-lcm's decisions because of lack of adherence to godly doctrine, but lack of reverence to vpw at the end. We also knew he was AGAINST AOS but we never heard WHY. NOW it makes a lot of sense. vpw was a military/political wannabe, lcm was an athletic wannabe. Both rewrote things to fit their favourite paradigms, mangling them in the process.
Old Vic never passed up an opprotunity to have military wafers dress up in full uniform for him and even salute him!!! He loved all the flag waving pomp...I'm surprised he didn't make the corps goosestep.
I'm not completely sure that wasn't simply more of his love of adulation and having people fawn over him 24/7 as much as a military thing...except he admired how the military commanded loyalty without questioning.
Per Sunesis:
It was my best friend to whom VP informed her "Hitler had the right idea" about the jews - i.e., get rid of them. She was stunned.
VP was a white supremist. He was a member of the Liberty Lobby. The Liberty Lobby is a front in WashingtonD.C. for America's white supremicst, conspiracy groups. He got their newsletter, the Spotlight, and called into their "hotlines."
Where do you think all of VP's inside info on the illuminati, Trilateral Commission, Rothschild banking, Council of Foreign Affairs - all the "secret" conspiracy stuff VP shared at the advanced class came from? Right from the Liberty Lobby.
Have you ever seen the outline of Hitler's Nazi Youth program - how to train the young master race? I have. The WC was incredibly similar.
VP would have made a wonderful, loyal nazi, had he lived in another place and time.
Per Sunsis:
I discussed this also with R.D. He told me VP had him almost believing all jews were "Zionist pigs." VP, as Danny pointed out, did sell those books, I read them. They were on sale in the bookstore for all to read. By the way, guess who publishes them? Again, the Liberty Lobby press. I forget what name it goes by. there's only one place you can get those particular books.
Whether you agree or not, VP was an admirer of Hitler. Whether you agree or not, VP thought Hitler had the right idea concerning the jews. Whether you agree or not, he was a white supremist. One of his top right hand motorcoach driver aides told me he used the "hotline" quite a bit. So did another staffer close to him. I think Liberty Lobby updated the hotline weekly.
Per Sunesis:
VPW:
1. Affiliated with the Liberty Lobby
2. A subscriber to the Spotlight Magazine
3. A devotee of the Liberty Lobby Hotline
4. Presented to us Bob Richardson, the Populist Party (Liberty Lobby) candidate for President that year to come speak for the afternoon at corps week. Richardson actually did quite well in Iowa and some other states that year. Bringing him to the big top took a little bit of clout somewhere along the line.
5. Carried Liberty Lobby books for all to buy in the bookstore. Even the newsmedia had fun with that one
6. Gave us in the 7th corps our very own copy of Liberty Lobby's "The Secret Constitution" - with an offer for us to subscribe too to the Spotlight
7. Owner of tapes re: Illuminati, Trilateral Commission, etc. that he played at the Advanced Class. These tapes were courtesy the Liberty Lobby
8. Stated publically he had hated blacks for years (because one killed his older brother in a hit and run), until Claudette Royal came along - she was good.
9. Stated Hitler "had the right idea" concerning the jews (by the way, my friend was not the only one he mentioned this to)
10. Taught the murder of 6 million jews was inflated, a myth basically (backed up by books he sold in the bookstore), stated its just the jews have the money to keep this all in the media, or else we'd all have forgotten by now (those pesky jews).
11. Stated the Rothschilds and Jewish Bankers started WWII
12. Started the malpack, head for the hills, the country is going to fall, because of "inside information" courtesy the Liberty Lobby.
Per Zixar:
"The Myth of the Six Million" and "The Thirteenth Tribe" were recommended reading at Advanced Class '87. Both are anti-Semitic garbage.
I can't say to what extent VPW admired Hitler, but I do know one thing. The most VPW could have ever compared to in the Nazi party was Hermann Goering, a fat, obnoxious, incompetent hack who had a predilection for spiritualism. LCM? Mussolini.
There are several parallels that one can draw between TWI and the Nazis. Even though there were some outstanding individuals in the organization, the green Corps nametag was the gray serge tunic of the SS. PFAL--Mein Kampf. VPW-WOW Auditorium--the Reichstag.
Per Goey:
Oldies, I submit that you did know know Mr. Wilerwille at all. And my guess is that you spent little if any personal time with him.
What you "know" of Mr. Wierwille is your own fantasy image of him -- not based upon personal experience and knowledge, but rather upon what you want him to have been.
To consider these things to be true about Mr. Wierwille is to consider that many of your own ideas are wrong and is a threat to your fantasy images about VPW and TWI-1.
You are not insulted -- you are threatened with the idea that your belief system is based upon lies and deception and that your hero was not the man you imagine him to have been.
You can't handle the thought of being wrong and your little fantasy world falling apart. You are too invested in it - thus your protest.
no that's ok, jk thank you, i can look it up too. i think he refers to a couple of things. one i believe was that wierwille admired hitler and said he ruled with fear. and that's what he was gonna do because he saw that love doesn't work.
something creepy like that. and i know he said more to jim.
Ex, I believe that his actions support that conclusion.
I do not believe that based on his demonstrated lack of compassion and inability to love that he was a genuine minister or even Christian for that matter.....it is something on the inside that makes such selfishness unthinkable.
It isn`t something that you can just fix by throwing enough scriptures at it and operating principles.
Per rascal {from the thread, 'that the ministry be not blamed'}
OMG there are so many times this phrase was used to manipulate folks into silence.
This was used on the parents of molested children to get them to shut up....it was used to silence rape victims...and to hide spousal abuse.
It was usually followed by the equally famous phrase to allow it to be handled *in house* that it was spiritually wrong to take a brother in Christ before the *worldly* court
Other phrases such as "lockbox" and "closed corporation meeting" were also used.
Oh, yeah, & don't forget: "The 'Word' is the 'ministry,' and the 'Ministry' is the 'Word.' That is, whatever the mogfart or bots say, is essentially on par with the 'Word,' much akin to RCC excathedra or papal bull.
This type of enforced silence, via coercive persuasion, is part of TWI's thought reform process.
2nd Corinthians 6:1-18 (from The Bible in Plain English [crosswalk.com], emphasis mine):
We then, working together with God, make our request to you not to take the grace of God to no purpose. (For he says, I have given ear to you at a good time, and I have been your helper in a day of salvation: see, now is the good time; now is the day of salvation):
Giving no cause for trouble in anything, so that no one may be able to say anything against our work; But in everything making it clear that we are the servants of God,
In quiet strength, in troubles, in need, in sorrow,
In blows, in prisons, in attacks, in hard work, in watchings, in going without food;
In a clean heart, in knowledge, in long waiting, in being kind, in the Holy Spirit, in true love,
In the true word, in the power of God; with the arms of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
By glory and by shame, by an evil name and a good name; as untrue, and still true;
Unnoted, but still kept fully in mind; as near to death, but still living; as undergoing punishment, but not put to death;
As full of sorrow, but ever glad; as poor, but giving wealth to others; as having nothing, but still having all things.
The Way ministry leaders would never have had to worry about being blamed if they hadn't made a tacit policy of endorsing and then hiding wrongdoing.
They could have said "Love or hate what we teach, but we live our lives loving God and others, and doing the best we can in the kindest way possible."
They didn't, and we're paying the price for their malfeasance.
(btw, I don't go quoting bible a lot anymore, but it just seems to me this whole "ministry be not blamed" was taken completely out of context, and handled erroniously and deceitfully, especially for an organization which sole purpose is to "rightly divide the Word of Truth".)
Per Vickles (from the sociopathic & narcissistic thread):
Profile of a Sociopath
A number of mind-manipulating cult leaders may exhibit many of the behavioral characteristics of a sociopath-an outstanding ability to charm and seduce followers. Since they appear apparently normal, they are not easily recognizable as deviant or disturbed. Although only a trained professional can make a diagnosis, it is important to be able to recognize the personality type in order to avoid further abuse. These traits also apply to a one-on-one cultic relationship.
Glibness/Superficial Charm
Language can be used without effort by them to confuse and convince their audience. Captivating storytellers that exude self-confidence, they can spin a web that intrigues others. Since they are persuasive, they have the capacity to destroy their critics verbally or emotionally.
Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They dominate and humiliate their victims
Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right." Craves adulation and attendance. Must be the center of attention with their own fantasies as the 'spokesman for God," "enlightened," "leader of humankind," etc. Creates an us-versus-them mentality
Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistant basis. Can create and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and able to pass lie detector tests.
Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.
Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises
Incapacity For Love
While they talk about "God's love" they are unable to give or receive it. Since they do not believe in the geniunes of their followers' love, they are very harsh in testing it from their devotees and expect them to feel guilt for their failings. Expects unconditional surrender.
Need for stimulation
Living on edge, yet testing the beliefs of their followers with bizarre rules, punishments and behaviors. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal
Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to emphasize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them. Their skills are used to exploit, abuse and exer power. Since the follower cannot believe their leader would callously hurt them, they rationalize the abuse. When devotees become aware of the exploitation it feels like a "spiritual rape" to them.
Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others. The followers only see them as near perfect.
Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends, aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.
Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devatation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blame their followers or others outside their group. Blame reinforces passivity and obedience and produces guilt, shame, terror and conformity in the followers.
Promisuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Totalist leaders frequently practice promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts. This is usually kept hidden from all but the inner circle. Stringent sexual control of their followers, such as forced breakups and divorces, removal of children from parents, rules for dating, etc.
Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future. Many groups claim as their goal world-domination or other utopian promises. Great contrast between the leader's opulent lifestyle and the followers' impoverishment. Support by gifts and donations from the followers who are pressured to give through fear and guilt. Highly sensitive to their own pain and health
Criminal or Entrpreneurial Versatility
Changes their image and that of the group as needed to avoid prosecution and to increase income and to recruit a range of members. Is able to adapt or relocate as needed to preserve the group. Can resurface later with a new name, a new front group and a new twist on the scam
Other Related Qualities:
Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
Authoritarian
Secretive
Paranoid
Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
Conventional apprearance
Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
Exercises depostic control over every aspect of the victim's life
Has an emotional need to jusify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (repect, gratitude and love)
Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
Incapable of real human attachment to another
Unable to feel remorse or guilt
Extreme narcissism and grandiose
May state readily that their goal is to rule the world
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rascal
You try to make a point oldies...that it was no big deal because these young teenaged girls *consented* ....... you know, there were many of us gals who did indeed *consented* to having sex in our ear
jkboehme
Returning to Doug Hyde’s observations, he stated that the Christian church had much to learn from the ideological totalist’s [communist’s] techniques, methods, and attitudes. Apparently VPW, as the to
jkboehme
Sunesis,
Thanks for the Liberty Lobby & Spotlite info!!! I did not know of veepee's close connection & subscription status, but in retrospect {ex-twi} it does not surprise me.
Like most other wayfers, I thought these political conspiracies were via revelation to the Corn Wizard.
This material was useful to vpw in his coordinated program of coercive packaged persusasion with which the Wizard beguiled us.
We all thought it was true, but as usual, TWI was just exploitatively manipulating us with FEAR motivation.
Which again, the Corn Wizard teaching in pfal that fear is the believers enemy, it is paradoxically interesting that TWI purposefully routinely utilized fear as a motivator. Hypocrisy is the least of what it is. This type of fear motivation was just another manipulative tool in TWI's thought reform program.
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oldiesman
The Newstates Constitution was an actual document that was written by a guy named Tugwell, financed by the Ford Foundation.
That was not written by, but exposed, by Liberty Lobby...
Read it for yourself:
Newstates Constitution
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Sunesis
Poor choice of words. I know the Liberty Lobby didn't write it. They distributed it.
Also JK, the books carried in the bookstore that caused so much consternation - The Myth of the Six million, The Thirteenth Tribe, etc. were only carried and distributed by one organization - who else - Liberty Lobby. He did his best to indoctrinate to the white supremist, conspiracy way of thinking.
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jkboehme
Sunesis,
Great post!
What a profound chunk of sunesis you have brought to the open-minded readers of gsc as to one aspect of the hateful, covert agenda of TWI!!!
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jkboehme
Per Sunesis:
My primary concern, as I have stated on many posts, is TWI’s unethical (? illegal) CONDUCT.
Nevertheless, I am constantly galled the more I find out about veepee’s misrepresentations, fraud, deceit, plagiarism, & hate-mongering {aka, per psychiatrist, Dr. Robert Lifton, MD, as “dispensing of existence”}.
VPW represented to us that all of this spiritual-political conspiracy stuff was via revelation from God to him as the (supposed) Man of God ostensibly so that we could protect & ensure the perpetuation of the one true ministry on the face of the earth, TWI. All the preparations we made were so much wasted time and money.
Also, this fear-based artificial campaign by veepee to distract us & keep us overly busy was the prototype for martinpuke’s Y2K fear-based (unnecessary) preparations.
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jkboehme
Per HAPe4me:
More documentation of TWI promoting right wing extremist views with the intent of motivating TWI members with FEAR.
:mellow:
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jkboehme
Per templelady:
__________________________________________________________________So which of the categories below do VPW & LCM not fit into?
Sociopath: One who is affected with a personality disorder marked by antisocial behavior..
Psychopath: a mentally ill or unstable individual; one having an antisocial personality.
Maniac: A person who has an excessive enthusiasm or desire for something. A person who acts in a wildly irresponsible way. Characterized by excessive enthusiasm or excitement.
Megalomaniac: A psychopathological condition characterized by delusional fantasies of wealth, power, or omnipotence. An obsession with grandiose or extravagant things or actions.
Narcissist: psychological condition characterized by self-preoccupation, lack of empathy, and unconscious deficits in self-esteem. Erotic pleasure derived from contemplation or admiration of one's own body or self, especially as a fixation on or a regression to an infantile stage of development.
Manipulator: To influence or manage shrewdly or deviously.
Exploitative: To make use of selfishly or unethically.
Machiavellian: Suggestive of or characterized by expediency, deceit, and cunning.
***************************************
Fold TWI, FOLD!
"...That this work of ours may lead to victories for the age to come. The victors may not remember us, and if so, what matter? For them shall be the joy, the victories, and the praise. Ours will be the glory of the fathers in the sons..."
Tycho Brahe, Danish astronomer
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jkboehme
Per rascal:
Yeah, that’s what deceitful Corn Wizards do.
It seems to me the most fundamental aspect of the deception was the entire thought reform umbrella of TWI.
Once a wayfer was conveniently waybrained, the pressure to go WOW, Corps, or have sex with the mogfarts, was manipulatively promoted and exploitatively construed by TWI leadership to be an indication of the depth of one’s commitment, dedication & leadership potential.
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jkboehme
More info regarding the Liberty Lobby, veepee's source of 'revelation' for preparations for the one true 'ministry' of 'God.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Lobby
Liberty Lobby
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Liberty Lobby was a right-wing political advocacy organization which existed in the United States between 1955 and 2001. It was founded by Willis Carto.
Liberty Lobby was the subject of much criticism from all quarters of the political spectrum. While Liberty Lobby was founded as a conservative political organization (or, many would charge, with the intent of appearing to be a conservative organization while Carto's real views were that of a white supremacist), Willis Carto was known to hold strongly anti-Semitic views, and to be a devotee of the writings of Francis Parker Yockey, who was one of a handful of esoteric post-WWII writers who revered Adolf Hitler. Yockey, writing under the pseudonym of Ulick Varange, wrote a book entitled Imperium, which Willis Carto adopted as his own guiding ideology.
Many critics, including disgruntled former Carto associates as well as the Anti-Defamation League, have noted that Willis Carto, more than anybody else, was responsible for keeping organized anti-Semitism alive as a viable political movement during the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s, when it was otherwise completely discredited.
Liberty Lobby attempted to promote a public image of being a conservative anti-Communist group, along the lines of the John Birch Society, but while the John Birch Society rejected white supremacy and anti-Semitism, Liberty Lobby promoted them. Francis Parker Yockey's Imperium was republished by Willis Carto's Noontide Press, which also published a number of other books and pamphlets promoting a racialist and white supremacist world view, and Liberty Lobby in turn sold and promoted these books.
While Liberty Lobby was intended to occupy the niche of a conservative anti-Communist group, Willis Carto was meanwhile building other organizations which would take a much more explicit neo-Nazi orientation. Among these were the National Youth Alliance, a Willis Carto-founded organization that eventually became the National Alliance when Carto lost control of it and it fell into the hands of William Pierce. The National Alliance is considered to be the most notorious neo-Nazi group currently operating in the United States. Also founded by Carto was the Institute for Historical Review, a group known for publishing books and articles that argue that the extent of the Nazi Holocaust is exaggerated by mainsteam historians (see Holocaust Revisionism). As with the National Youth Alliance and Noontide Press, the Institute for Historical Review also fell out of Carto's hands in a hostile internal struggle.
Liberty Lobby, however, remained under the control of Carto until the end. During the 1970s, as the old anti-Communism of the 1950s and 1960s fell out of favor, Carto redefined the public image of Liberty Lobby, increasingly taking on the public image of populist rather than conservative or right-wing. In 1975, Liberty Lobby began publishing a weekly newspaper called The Spotlight, which ran news and opinion articles with a very populist and anti-establishment slant on a variety of subjects, but gave little indication of being extreme-right or neo-Nazi. However, The Spotlight, critics charged, was intended as a subtle recruiting tool for the extreme right, using populist-sounding articles to attract people from all points on the political spectrum including liberals, moderates, and conservatives, and special-interest articles to attract people interested in such subjects as alternative medicine, while the newspaper subtly incorporated anti-Semitic and white racialist undertones in its articles, and carried advertisements in the classified section for openly neo-Nazi groups and books. The Spotlight for a while became the most widely-read periodical on the right in the United States, with circulation peaking around 200,000 in the early 1980s. While circulation experienced a steady drop after that, it continued to be published until Liberty Lobby's demise in 2001.
In 2001, Liberty Lobby and Willis Carto lost a lawsuit brought by a rival far-right group which had earlier gained control of the Institute for Historical Review, and the ensuing judgement bankrupted the organization. Willis Carto and others who had been involved in publishing The Spotlight have since started a new newspaper, the American Free Press, which is very similar in overall tone to The Spotlight. As an organization, Liberty Lobby is defunct.
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Lobby"
Categories: Neo-Nazism | Conspiracy theorists | Anti-Semitism
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markomalley
Suggest you review some of the threads previously discussed on the topic:
As for the subject matter expert on that topic, I would refer you to Sunesis.
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TaylorCompany
Good Move Belle...would be frustrating argument. OM can't give you ANY example of VeePee doing anything altruistic. Doesn't exist. Same with loy-boy. If you can't see that they were both in it for the money and the sex you are blind.
But, OM will give example after example of altruistic behavior (that can be refuted by anyone with 2 licks of common sense) until he wears you down on it.
Not worth the effort...
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jkboehme
Thanks, Mark.
Actually input from Sunesis on several recent threads has been invaluable in reconstructing Wierwille's misrepresentations.
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jkboehme
Here are some excellent quotes from those 4 archival threads recommended by Mark:
Per Sunesis:
I've posted this before, but will do so in condensed form.
Why did VP have this stuff? Because he was a member of the Liberty Lobby, which also printed a magazine called the Spotlight.
The Liberty Lobby is an organization based in Washington D.C. that is a political "front" for White Supremist groups. It is the "respectable" political umbrella for these various white supremist organizations.
7th corps, remember our "secret constitution" that was passed out to us? I still have it. Right on the inside back cover is an order form to subscribe to the Spotlight and membership in the Liberty Lobby.
All his advanced class tapes regarding the Illuminati, Trilateral Commission, etc. - the "heavy" stuff that was taught, were tapes that came from the Liberty Lobby.
VP also had a "hotline" number he could call with all the latest conspiracy updates. This came straight from someone who worked closely with him. Remember Malpack? Head for the hills? We must stand or our country is going to fall? All this was brought to you courtesy of the Liberty Lobby. VP then taught it and acted like it was his revelation.
Remember the Jim Jones suicides, how it was really done by the government, etc.? Thank you Liberty Lobby!
Remember when Wheaties Box and Olympic star Bob Richards came to speak to us at corps week one year? Gee, he was the Populist Party (they are the political arm of the Liberty Lobby) presidential candidate that year - what a coincidence he would take time out of his busy schecule to talk to us and schmooze with VP.
Those of you who have those books, one of them, the Myth of the 6 million, or 13th Tribe is only published by the Liberty Lobby's bookstore.
VP was a white supremist, but it was not something he spoke about in public. Sorry to burst anyone's bubble. Research the Liberty Lobby.
Sunesis, cont:
used to visit HQ in '71 while still in high school, we had moved from NY to Columbus, so it was an easy trip. We knew people there, would hang out in friends' units, etc. I had seen some spotlight magazines at one time - I forget exactly where or when - they were more like large pamplets. That's why when we got our new "secret constitutions" and there was the Spotlight subscription form, I thought, oh - nothing really about it, but oh, yeah, I've seen this before.
I think Igotout put a copy of the back cover here in a thread once - I think he still has his also.
I had always wondered where VP got all this "top secret" "heavy" government info he only shared in the advanced class. It wasn't until I read the book years later on staff that everything fell into place.
Also, quite a few of his top guys were avid readers of Soldier of Fortune Magazine - you know survival stuff, etc. I read it for awhile on the recommendation of one Rev. while on staff at hq. VPs bodyguards were sent for training at one of these militia camps in the southwest. I know they were thrown out of one, and ended up training at another. Just, a lot of b.s. stuff went on.
Per Socks:
I've done some poking around trying to get a better grip on the foundations for the "law of believing" as it's so often articulated in religious teaching. One of the most striking examples I found was the belief in Xeper ("Khefer"), or "coming in to being", going back to Eqyptian religious "cult" beliefs. The ritualistic approach to perparing a physical and mental place for the future you want to "bring in to being" struck me as being very similar to the rituals many Christians will set up to build an alternate reality to the one they perceive - one they're "believing" to come into being. Those who pursue Xeper as a philosphy often view "the prince of darkness" as a ruling power of this universe whose image was confiscated by Christian religions and turned in to the Devil. So for them, it's a matter of perspective.
Thanks Sunesis. I stopped short with my example. The only person I've talked to about this idea of "Xeper" led me to investigate it a little more and I saw so many similarities to some "Christian" thinking, but from a very different perspective. One was that a "master" race of enlightened people was inevitable, it was just a matter of how organized they were towards their goals that would determine their impact. Impact socially, intellectually, artistically, etc. was expected and desired. Equality was embraced but with the understanding that not everyone was going to be enlightened.
There wasn't an aggression towards those who wouldn't be but an understanding that those who did would achieve true levels of personal growth and would "tap" in to higher levels of power. Domination of lesser minded people would be the progression by natural process. In fact, understanding that would allow a person to not get hung up in all of the world's problems that aren't going to be solved for some people no matter what. They could be solved by intellectually and spiritually evolved people but ultimately everyone could opt in at some level. If it was simply to get the benefits that part of the population would be ruled by those who have the solutions.
Where this differs from standard capitalism is that the real goal isn't greed, personal gain for it's own reward and at other's expense. Rather it's for the purpose of acheiving one's own "real" purpose in life, being who they are truly destined to be by being free of the restrictions of accepted moral thought and following their god. This follower of Xeper assumed they would be superior by virtue of the fact that they weren't bound personally by the limitations of religion, politics, etc. The morals that result from this and from following their god -the prince of darkness- would be the "right ones" but may be very different from standard Golden Rule stuff. Alternative pursuits and experience could and would lead a person into enlightenment, extreme stuff like pain, or it might be academic pursuits. The possibilities are endless.
So with ths you'll dominate as a natural result and there will be those who follow, serve and support the superior individual. "It's as it should be" is how it would be viewed.
A merciful God who loves everyone, forgives, gives altruistically doesn't figure in the same way. "Mercy" isn't really a factor. People get what they achieve, period. If the result of that is one's the master, the other the slave, that's what they've achieved for themselves. It's an interesting view and not completely foreign when I look at some of the Ways' specific teachings on believing, rewards, giving and receiving.
By emphasizing the individual out of context with the "body" you can end up in a similar mindset, an enlightened group of "discplined" ones who "really" run the world. Who are "advancing" and have the "advantage" in life. Who accept that people are to be treated differently because some aren't as good as they are.
Then, by emphasizing that the individual is nothing without the "household" you end up with a captive congregation. People have to stay to survive by that logic, even if it's at a subjugated level of participation. Better to stay and get beat up on than leave and "die". Without all of the rest of the teaching of Jesus and the N.T. balancing it constantly it will get pretty weird, as we've seen in the Way over the years.
Per Microbe:
I recently saw "A Beautiful Mind" and wonder if that was not where our MOG was? (Not that he had a "beautful" mind, the delusions I mean.) I remember him telling the Corps about the times he would sit in a chair in his "room" for hours and hours, under such incredible stress that all he could do was hang on until it was clear that Michael had won that particular battle. It required his total concentration and nothing helped. People (his wife etc) had to just leave him alone in the dark for extended periods of time. He described it as something like mental torture. He stood in the GAP! He never mentioned Jesus Christ as far as I remember. At the time it sounded to me (not a doctor - ok) like the man was suffering anxiety attacks. He also said he had trouble sleeping and was seeking medical attention. His MD, a believer, of course dismissed this and calmed his concerns about mental stress. Of course he was sound minded-he just had to save the world!
Per toto:
Anyway, I only remember a couple of things -- lots of chatter about gold and some discussion on wilderness survival. The most shocking thing I remember is some big-wig (perhaps VP himself) saying that if it came down to the survival of you or your children, the children should be sacrificed because "you hold the word" -- and then some insanity about how you could make more.
It was so hush-hush that we had to gather up our notes and hand them in late at night to be disposed of -- I think they were burnt.
Per Sunesis:
Boy, sounds like one of VPW's private inner teachings. Sacrifice your kids you can always have more.... No wonder abortion to him was no big deal.
This piece of advice goes beyond all human instinct and decency. Most parents in a war situation, will do anything and everything, to the point of giving up their lives, so that their children will survive. I think about the Jews who shipped their kids off to England or other places to live with strangers during the war. Many of those kids parents never came to claim them after the war.
No question, every parent I know would sacrifice their life for their child if circumstances mandated they do so.
Makes you wonder about what VP thought of his own kids, makes you wonder, was VP without "natural affection" for his children. That statement shows an extremely narcissisitic, cold person.
Per QamiQazi:
This was a "spectacle." It was calculated to induce paranoia and obedience.
We were so impressed if something was "heavy." Heavy stuff, man. We were living in the Old Testament, heads filled with wizardry (we called it "power" but hell, we may as well have called it "the Force" since God had nothing to do with it).
It was evidence of being "spiritual" if it was:
- revealed with an air of mystery or urgency
- capricious
- illogical
- shocking
- referenced anywhere in the Word by a certified "man of God"
- and of course, if it was in any way "heavy"
We just sucked that stuff up. Who needed to play "Dungeons and Dragons?" We were living it. It was a dark carnival, costumed in biblical jargon, a dog and pony show, where we began as the audience and became the dogs and the ponies. The bible could convince us of anything they wanted it to. And it did.
Per LarryP2:
The man's astonishing lack of prophetic ability never ceases to amaze me. Let's see, in slightly over a decade, Soviet communism would utterly collapse from its own internal contradictions, it's massive military undone without firing a shot, and its discredited ideology cast on the "ash heap of history."
I remember well the summer of 1990 when I lived in Europe. You knew something very very big was in the air, and it had nothing to do with the grim vicicitudes of war. It was all peace and love and all us guys gawking at naked Israeli chicks on the beaches of Greek Islands. Ol' Gorby was everybody's hero.
The average drunken Romanian chimney sweep in the bars in downtown Athens had more intuition about the future of communism than Weirwille did. "Communishum sucks Baby." The Russians were absolutely certain that in a few days the Soviet Union would become a little America with Mcdonalds on every corner and nobody would have to work or eat beet soup or rotten potatoes ever again. It was quite a shock coming as an ideology-addled undergraduate from America.
We had more important things to worry about in 1979, like exploding gas tanks on Pintos, heat rash from all that double-knit polyester, and falling off our platform disco shoes.
You heard it on a tape that JAL did when he first left TWI. He said that Geer was the one who was into all the survival, espionage type stuff and really influenced VP a great deal. I've heard that from others who were in the Corps with CG as well.
Conspiracy theories abounded in TWI. From Peter Beter (yes, that was his name), who was sure the Russians had some kind of beam weapons that hovered over the earth that could cause earthquakes or vaporize ships, buildings, airplanes - you name it. I think he was the man who brought that "New Constitution" stuff to TWI as well.
There was also a bunch of information spewed out about a secret organization called "The Illumanati" who were supposedly in favor of one world government and believed that world bankers, who were mostly Jews, manipulated all the nations on earth.
And of course, there was our beloved Beatle blaster, David Noebel who believed that Rock and Roll was a communist plot to win over the minds of America's youth and cause a revolution - in which the Russians were prepared to step in and take over.
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Per Hope R.:
Most of the theories were about the "New World Order" and the evils of the United Nations, The Council on Foreign Relations, the Freemasons and any other powerful world organization that wasn't Christian in nature.
"None Dare Call It Conspiracy" by Gary Allen was the basis for all this paranoia.
Then later, after I graduated, LCM took over and instituted the MAL packs (Mobile something or other)and we on the field had to be ready to duck and cover when the Commies came to take over by having enough food and water stored in our homes for at least 6 months.
I can't remember all of the conspiracy theories - but they seemed to be endless. I know they weren't a part of TWI when I got involved - they came a few years later. It is very possible that CG introduced them to VP and TWI. Anyone else know?
Per ex10:
OK, I'll tell what I know about the whole MAL fiasco at Emporia when the 8th and 10th were in-rez. Like any good reporter, I can't reveal my source, but it was someone who was very close to that situation.
When VPW came to Emporia talking about the world as we knew it falling apart, etc., etc. LCM, in his usual style, over-reacted. He was the one (with the help of a couple of 8th corps who were equally stupid) who thought up the whole MAL backpack, head for the hills, we all had to go underground program. It was all LCM. I know for sure that CG had nothing to do with that.
I don't think that CG introduced the Paranoia conspiracy stuff. VPW was that way all on his own, but CG definitely FED it, and like LCM, tended to over react, in typical form. You gotta remember, that LCM was extrememly loyal to VP, and thought that everything out of his mouth was revelation, as did CG. When VP called his corps meetings and scared the heck out of everybody letting his paranoia show, LCM felt it was his responsibility as Director of the Corps (remember he still lived at Emporia, not HQ yet) to follow through and devise a plan of escape for the corps.
I know when I find this stuff out after the POOP explosion, it helped me put some puzzling pieces of life in WayWorld together, and further conviced me that LCM was unstable and not to be trusted. Maybe it will help someone else as well.
Per TheEvan:
Get this...MAL meant More Abundant Life!
HAWHAWHAWHAWHAWHAWSNORT!
Zix, Geer & I took the advanced class together in '71 and Wierwille was a full-tilt conspiracy nut already. As an avid and serious minded Wierwille-worshipper, Geer took it from Wierwille and ran with it. He was a creepy roomate, btw. I liked the other guys in the cabin better...John Nave, Bruce Mahone, etc...I had a blast.
To quote Peter Beter (yes, pronounced Beater) "THE DYNASTY HAS TAKEN ALLLLLLL THE GOLD!"
Per igotout:
Quote from VPW to me and another girl named Cathy in 1978:
"Kids, there's no gold left in Ft. Knox. If the interest rates go down by one more point our country is finished."
Stunned, I said what can we do about it. He said there is no hope left for our country except the ministry and moving God's Word.
Per grasshopper:
I just thought of 2 more wierd Way things:
When I took Marty's very first PFAL AC, I remember him getting up at lunch and talking about how he believed the US Government was behind the Oklahoma Federal Building bombing. Basically blamed Clinton saying he set it up so he could build up his popularity by handling a national tragedy.
I also remember my local way corps telling me that Al Gore had a plan for international genocide so he could save the earth from over-population.
Jeez, dumba**es like me would just eat that stuff up and believe it. Maybe it's because I always liked Sci-Fi.
Per LarryP2:
The heck of it all is that Weirwille had all these gullible people flocking to his cult, and they paid like sin for unvarnished swill. What garbage! How can anyone have fond recollections of this cult when it so obviously was designed to nakedly skin alive gullible and tenderminded people as efficiently as possible?
Per igotout:
Grasshopper, I too heard LCM say specifically that the government orchestrated the OK City bombing and that McVeigh was simply a pawn in the game. It was in a private Corps meeting in Rome City.
Among other loud rantings he said something like "Why is it that no Federal government workers were at work that day in the building?!!" I thought that was an odd thing to say and obviously untrue.
He really believed it. He always used to get real mad when a huge world event happened. And of course he always seemed to have the "real truth" behind it before long and would find an audience to yell it to, usually the submissive Way Corps whom he forced to sit at his smelly feet, while they scribbled furiously on their notepads.
Frankly, I think some of this dumbass thinking comes from minds that can not handle facing the harsh realities of life. Some sort of an escape mechanism or deep denial.
Per Buck:
I know you guys have sort of moved on from the "MAL" thing, but I just gotta weigh in here. I was in the Tenth Corps, and it was in October of '79 (I think it was October)
EX10, Do you remember the first night the whole thing came down? It was really scary. I remember Richard Thomas getting up front and dropping the first bombshell. I can almost quote it verbatim. He said; "How many of you can go back to your dorms and pack up a duffel bag, or back pack, or suitcase that you could live out of, survive out of for the next two years in the wilderness and be back here in fifteen minutes?" And EX10, weren't we then sent to our dorms right then to do just that? That part is foggy. I thought we did. But I do remember getting back and then having a major powow about it. I remember Craig standing up there talking about an economic collapse, and there being anarchy in the streets, and looters and rioters in the streets and that we in the Corps had to stay alive to keep the Word alive. And then, one of our sweet sisters from Scotland, Allison Smith, stood up and with her extremely strong Scottish brogue, stood up and said; "Craig, we doon't knoow, what ye re talkin aboot. You are talkin' about guns and and survival and alot of things that're scairin us. And we from Europe are particulary scared because we are so far away from our hooms". And to that Craig screamed at her went on a major tirade about "someone caving your head in with a monkey wrench to take the bread you have under your arm so that they can feed it to their family " etc etc. There was also talk about the government mobilizing the military to put us all (all Americans that is) in "work camps" after the all of the guns had been collected, so that the anarchy could be put down and order restored. But really, once that order had been restored, we would stay in the work camps which really would be prison camps, once They got control of the citizenry.
And because of this immediate threat, we in the Corps had to head for the hills so that the Word could stay alive. And remember how things evolved? As the weeks went by, we had all broken into MAL groups like platoons? In fact I was a MAL group coordinator. Ooorah! We would meet in these groups and plan our ecscape, and see how everybody was doing when it came to aquiring the necessary MAL pack gear. Each person in the group had a different responsibility. We had a very cool group. One gal was a nurse and had lived in a commune in Washington State and had been good at growing organic gardens. I was the hunting/fishing guy, another gal had four different rifles and shot guns, another was a gal who was the identical twin to my girlfriend who was out on the field in Colorado. There were two other guys in the group.
Our plan was to head out to Creed, Colorado where I knew of some old silver mine shafts, and where I "thought" there would be plenty fish and game. On the way there, I would stop and pick up my girlfriend in Pueblo. We would wait out "the storm" in the mountains near Creed, and survive so the Word could live and then our lives could "continue to tell the story".
We had classes on "escape and evasion", one class was whipped together called "Abounding In The Wilderness" w/ Rev. John B. and as people began to get their MAL packs together and collect wool clothes that were best for survival purposes, the "style on campus" began to change too. People began to wear their heavy German Army wool pants to class, wool US Army sweaters, heavy hiking boots, and oh yea Balaklavas! Everybody had wool Balaklava hats! Remember that? We called it "The MAL Look" I can still see Bob and Constance Darnell all decked out in full MAL regalia walking along the circle drive...
I also remember everybody having to keep their gas tanks full at all times, and "red tagging any files in their Pendaflex file boxes that might be incriminating to them. You know, files that might have the addresses of our families in it or MAL info in them. These files were to be red tagged so that they could be dumped into the incinerator at a moments notice should the sign be given for us to "split out like a ball of mercury hit with a ball peen hammer" as I think Richard T said we were to do.
At one point, it was so organized that TWI just went and paid for everybody to have a "fully loaded" MAL pack, and all we had to do was pay it back by getting our sponsors to send more money. My whole pack cost around 300 dollars. But after we made the comittment to pay back TWI, then we had to go and meet with Rev. John B. so he could check on our progress in getting the money paid. Alot of us jokingly called him "Chairman MAL". He had a MAL Office somewhere up in the reaches of Kenyon Auditorium where these one on one conferences took place. I remember distinctly sitting in study hall in top floor Wierwille and having the AC come up and read a list of names and for these people to go "to The MAL Office" to see John, to see Chairman MAL. Finally, my name was called too. It seemed that everybody traded grim looks when we had to get up to go see Chairman MAL. But I finally got it paid off, and I still have alot of that stuff to this day. Good camping equipment really..
And we had alot of great teachings about survival and abounding in the wilderness. Alot of practical questions arose like: "What are the girls going to do when they have their periods?" The answer? Silk Sea Sponges! These are small sponges from the sea that are about as big as a wallnut or a plum that could be used for this purpose. I'll always remember the day when the Silk Sea Sponges came in. Not all of the girls ordered them, but many did. And when they arrived via UPS or whatever, they were distributed up in top floor Wierwille during study hall. I can still see Gary M. up there when he first opened up a box of sponges. He put one in his mouth and started chewing on it and acting funny and making all the guys horse laugh and the girls go "Eeeewwww!" And then each gal was called to the front to pick up their sponges to the many more "horse laughs" from the boys. The girls were funny about it too by the way. I mean so many of us were becoming fast friends by then..
Yeah, MAl Pack. What a "time of adventure". After awhile we (at least me and a few of my friends) became so used to the idea, one pal just came out with it and said; "****, it's been almost two months of this now, I wish we would just get it over with and go do it. I mean think about it "Buck", us all being out there in the wild, livin off the fatta of the land, no rules but our own, fu--in on a flat rock out in the sunshine, I'm ready to go!"
Yeah, after awhile, after the idea had begun to settle in and didn't seem so scary after all. It gave "us men" a feeling of "cavalier bravado" ya know..
Oh brother, it was really weird huh? And, I will say that MAL officially stood for "Mobile Abundant Life". I know, Chairman MAL told me so..
Per George Aar:
I'm really not trying to exaggerate or be overly dramatic, but I think VP was more patterning himself after Hitler.
The empassioned calls to service, the ribbons, the pomp and ceremony. Even at the time I thought that the W.O.W. "pinning" event was reminiscent of a Hitler Youth Rally.
Yeah, and the idea that "the suggestion of a Man of God is tantamount to a command" is a really cool concept for a pompous, self-important, demi-god.
I also remember Mr. Wierwille's explanation of why he didn't serve in WWII. Something about a heart-wrenching decision that eventually resulted in him concluding that he could better serve by staying stateside and writing tepid religious tracts about victory. Yeah, how selfless of him...
Per GrouchoMarxJr:
I agree wholeheartedly with the Invisible Dan...Mr. Wierwille was more patterned after Hitler than anyone else I can think of. Remember how he pushed "The myth of the six million" and other fascist writings? I heard him say that Hitler had some "pretty good ideas" and "people didn't appreciate his leadership qualities from a historical perspective". Veepee loved the military analogies...that's one of the reasons that he was so upset at lcm's AOS. teachings. Martindale replaced the military comparisons with athletic terms. Old Vic never passed up an opprotunity to have military wafers dress up in full uniform for him and even salute him!!! He loved all the flag waving pomp...I'm surprised he didn't make the corps goosestep
Per WordWolf:
quote:
Originally posted by UncleHairy:I agree wholeheartedly with the Invisible Dan...Mr. Wierwille was more patterned after Hitler than anyone else I can think of. Remember how he pushed "The myth of the six million" and other fascist writings?
On the internet, it's common to hear analogies and comparisons to Hitler. This would make such a claim easy to ignore, if vpw hadn't pushed "Myth of the Six Million" and didn't have a history of pushing a political agenda of his own. Does anyone know the name of any other fascism book he promoted?
I heard him say that Hitler had some "pretty good ideas" and "people didn't appreciate his leadership qualities from a historical perspective". Veepee loved the military analogies...that's one of the reasons that he was so upset at lcm's AOS. teachings. Martindale replaced the military comparisons with athletic terms.
Well, that answers a nagging question. We knew vpw wasn't anti-lcm's decisions because of lack of adherence to godly doctrine, but lack of reverence to vpw at the end. We also knew he was AGAINST AOS but we never heard WHY. NOW it makes a lot of sense. vpw was a military/political wannabe, lcm was an athletic wannabe. Both rewrote things to fit their favourite paradigms, mangling them in the process.
Old Vic never passed up an opprotunity to have military wafers dress up in full uniform for him and even salute him!!! He loved all the flag waving pomp...I'm surprised he didn't make the corps goosestep.
I'm not completely sure that wasn't simply more of his love of adulation and having people fawn over him 24/7 as much as a military thing...except he admired how the military commanded loyalty without questioning.
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Per WordWolf:
quote:
Originally posted by UncleHairy:I agree wholeheartedly with the Invisible Dan...Mr. Wierwille was more patterned after Hitler than anyone else I can think of. Remember how he pushed "The myth of the six million" and other fascist writings?
On the internet, it's common to hear analogies and comparisons to Hitler. This would make such a claim easy to ignore, if vpw hadn't pushed "Myth of the Six Million" and didn't have a history of pushing a political agenda of his own. Does anyone know the name of any other fascism book he promoted?
I heard him say that Hitler had some "pretty good ideas" and "people didn't appreciate his leadership qualities from a historical perspective". Veepee loved the military analogies...that's one of the reasons that he was so upset at lcm's AOS. teachings. Martindale replaced the military comparisons with athletic terms.
Well, that answers a nagging question. We knew vpw wasn't anti-lcm's decisions because of lack of adherence to godly doctrine, but lack of reverence to vpw at the end. We also knew he was AGAINST AOS but we never heard WHY. NOW it makes a lot of sense. vpw was a military/political wannabe, lcm was an athletic wannabe. Both rewrote things to fit their favourite paradigms, mangling them in the process.
Old Vic never passed up an opprotunity to have military wafers dress up in full uniform for him and even salute him!!! He loved all the flag waving pomp...I'm surprised he didn't make the corps goosestep.
I'm not completely sure that wasn't simply more of his love of adulation and having people fawn over him 24/7 as much as a military thing...except he admired how the military commanded loyalty without questioning.
Per Sunesis:
It was my best friend to whom VP informed her "Hitler had the right idea" about the jews - i.e., get rid of them. She was stunned.
VP was a white supremist. He was a member of the Liberty Lobby. The Liberty Lobby is a front in Washington D.C. for America's white supremicst, conspiracy groups. He got their newsletter, the Spotlight, and called into their "hotlines."
Where do you think all of VP's inside info on the illuminati, Trilateral Commission, Rothschild banking, Council of Foreign Affairs - all the "secret" conspiracy stuff VP shared at the advanced class came from? Right from the Liberty Lobby.
Have you ever seen the outline of Hitler's Nazi Youth program - how to train the young master race? I have. The WC was incredibly similar.
VP would have made a wonderful, loyal nazi, had he lived in another place and time.
Per Sunsis:
I discussed this also with R.D. He told me VP had him almost believing all jews were "Zionist pigs." VP, as Danny pointed out, did sell those books, I read them. They were on sale in the bookstore for all to read. By the way, guess who publishes them? Again, the Liberty Lobby press. I forget what name it goes by. there's only one place you can get those particular books.
Whether you agree or not, VP was an admirer of Hitler. Whether you agree or not, VP thought Hitler had the right idea concerning the jews. Whether you agree or not, he was a white supremist. One of his top right hand motorcoach driver aides told me he used the "hotline" quite a bit. So did another staffer close to him. I think Liberty Lobby updated the hotline weekly.
Per Sunesis:
VPW:
1. Affiliated with the Liberty Lobby
2. A subscriber to the Spotlight Magazine
3. A devotee of the Liberty Lobby Hotline
4. Presented to us Bob Richardson, the Populist Party (Liberty Lobby) candidate for President that year to come speak for the afternoon at corps week. Richardson actually did quite well in Iowa and some other states that year. Bringing him to the big top took a little bit of clout somewhere along the line.
5. Carried Liberty Lobby books for all to buy in the bookstore. Even the newsmedia had fun with that one
6. Gave us in the 7th corps our very own copy of Liberty Lobby's "The Secret Constitution" - with an offer for us to subscribe too to the Spotlight
7. Owner of tapes re: Illuminati, Trilateral Commission, etc. that he played at the Advanced Class. These tapes were courtesy the Liberty Lobby
8. Stated publically he had hated blacks for years (because one killed his older brother in a hit and run), until Claudette Royal came along - she was good.
9. Stated Hitler "had the right idea" concerning the jews (by the way, my friend was not the only one he mentioned this to)
10. Taught the murder of 6 million jews was inflated, a myth basically (backed up by books he sold in the bookstore), stated its just the jews have the money to keep this all in the media, or else we'd all have forgotten by now (those pesky jews).
11. Stated the Rothschilds and Jewish Bankers started WWII
12. Started the malpack, head for the hills, the country is going to fall, because of "inside information" courtesy the Liberty Lobby.
Per Zixar:
"The Myth of the Six Million" and "The Thirteenth Tribe" were recommended reading at Advanced Class '87. Both are anti-Semitic garbage.
I can't say to what extent VPW admired Hitler, but I do know one thing. The most VPW could have ever compared to in the Nazi party was Hermann Goering, a fat, obnoxious, incompetent hack who had a predilection for spiritualism. LCM? Mussolini.
There are several parallels that one can draw between TWI and the Nazis. Even though there were some outstanding individuals in the organization, the green Corps nametag was the gray serge tunic of the SS. PFAL--Mein Kampf. VPW-WOW Auditorium--the Reichstag.
Per Goey:
Oldies, I submit that you did know know Mr. Wilerwille at all. And my guess is that you spent little if any personal time with him.
What you "know" of Mr. Wierwille is your own fantasy image of him -- not based upon personal experience and knowledge, but rather upon what you want him to have been.
To consider these things to be true about Mr. Wierwille is to consider that many of your own ideas are wrong and is a threat to your fantasy images about VPW and TWI-1.
You are not insulted -- you are threatened with the idea that your belief system is based upon lies and deception and that your hero was not the man you imagine him to have been.
You can't handle the thought of being wrong and your little fantasy world falling apart. You are too invested in it - thus your protest.
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excathedra
jkboehme, did you put in your posts anything jimmy doop said in his book about wierwille talking about hitler ?
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jkboehme
Hi ex,
No, but I can look it up if you like?
jkb
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excathedra
no that's ok, jk thank you, i can look it up too. i think he refers to a couple of things. one i believe was that wierwille admired hitler and said he ruled with fear. and that's what he was gonna do because he saw that love doesn't work.
something creepy like that. and i know he said more to jim.
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rascal
That IS a creepy thing for a minister to say ... Fear God with all your heart souls...er um fear your neighbor as um....on these two commandments....
You`d think a man who taught scriptures would have a greater understanding of the power and effectiveness of love :(
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excathedra
i don't think he understood love at all from my experience
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rascal
Ex, I believe that his actions support that conclusion.
I do not believe that based on his demonstrated lack of compassion and inability to love that he was a genuine minister or even Christian for that matter.....it is something on the inside that makes such selfishness unthinkable.
It isn`t something that you can just fix by throwing enough scriptures at it and operating principles.
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jkboehme
Per rascal {from the thread, 'that the ministry be not blamed'}
________________________________________________________________________________
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Other phrases such as "lockbox" and "closed corporation meeting" were also used.
Oh, yeah, & don't forget: "The 'Word' is the 'ministry,' and the 'Ministry' is the 'Word.' That is, whatever the mogfart or bots say, is essentially on par with the 'Word,' much akin to RCC excathedra or papal bull.
This type of enforced silence, via coercive persuasion, is part of TWI's thought reform process.
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Kevlar2000
*shaking my head in sadness*
...that the ministry be not blamed.
Indeed.
2nd Corinthians 6:1-18 (from The Bible in Plain English [crosswalk.com], emphasis mine):
We then, working together with God, make our request to you not to take the grace of God to no purpose. (For he says, I have given ear to you at a good time, and I have been your helper in a day of salvation: see, now is the good time; now is the day of salvation):
Giving no cause for trouble in anything, so that no one may be able to say anything against our work; But in everything making it clear that we are the servants of God,
In quiet strength, in troubles, in need, in sorrow,
In blows, in prisons, in attacks, in hard work, in watchings, in going without food;
In a clean heart, in knowledge, in long waiting, in being kind, in the Holy Spirit, in true love,
In the true word, in the power of God; with the arms of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
By glory and by shame, by an evil name and a good name; as untrue, and still true;
Unnoted, but still kept fully in mind; as near to death, but still living; as undergoing punishment, but not put to death;
As full of sorrow, but ever glad; as poor, but giving wealth to others; as having nothing, but still having all things.
The Way ministry leaders would never have had to worry about being blamed if they hadn't made a tacit policy of endorsing and then hiding wrongdoing.
They could have said "Love or hate what we teach, but we live our lives loving God and others, and doing the best we can in the kindest way possible."
They didn't, and we're paying the price for their malfeasance.
(btw, I don't go quoting bible a lot anymore, but it just seems to me this whole "ministry be not blamed" was taken completely out of context, and handled erroniously and deceitfully, especially for an organization which sole purpose is to "rightly divide the Word of Truth".)
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jkboehme
Oh, yeah, the 'Word' was 'rightly divided' according to the seared conscience of Herr Vierville, no 'PI' of course.
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jkboehme
Per Vickles (from the sociopathic & narcissistic thread):
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