What I am groping around and attempting to point out is that simply presenting the scriptures to people does not make someone necessarily a christian much less a leader of Christians.
The brutal treatment with which we were *ministered* to.....is simply NOT how a genuine christian...one of the *spirit* behaves.
There were certain behaviors given as guidelines in the scriptures for us to recognise one another .... these aren`t things that you *fake* or try to be ...it is just there...the best I can describe it ...after encountering genuine christians is that it is an *inside* deal...
By the same token, there was a standard set for those who were to be considered leaders.....
I think that we misinterpreted a *knowledge of the scriptures* to mean the same thing as being christian.
and so I wonder if many of us are doomed to continue life in anger and frustration....assuming that because we have a knowledge of the bible...that we understand it.....
It isn`t untill you become familiar with the genuine....that you can recognise the difference.
I am not saying that I am necessarily even there myself.....but in meeting and interacting with some folks these last few years that I can now recognise as the *real* deal.... I now remember who/what I want to be.
I wasn`t any higher than a tc.... and never deliberatly hurt anyone....but in looking back.... I still know that I still wasn`t quite *right*
I remember times when I could have been kind....and just shrugged off anothers pain....thinking that it was *their problem* I remember not standing up for a poor teenager who was being screamed at for something silly by the guy who had just married his mom...I remember the shame and mortification in the childs face....I knew what the bully was doing was dead wrong....I tried to comfort the boy ...but did I confront the foot hole that was bellowing at him...relishing his new role as head of household...his license to be a sadistic bully?
I remember one of my roomates didn`t have a car....she walked several miles to and from work every day uncomplaining of the rain, sleet, snow...sometimes she had to walk to another location that was over ten miles....how many times did I offer her a ride? Not nearly damned enough...n I though as tc that *I* was the spiritual one.....
We thought that we were spiritual because we knew scriptures.......because we were put in positions of responsibility and authority...I think that there must be more to genuine spirituality than simply knowledge......and that untill we can see beyond this...it is difficult to make the necessary changes to achieve that which we desire to be.
"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.'
Then the righteous will answer him and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?'
And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.
From what I recall, this was about the exact opposite of what we were taught in TWI. I seem to recall contributing anything to help those in this situation was only "good" but not "best." And since we only did the "best" (puke), we were not to have anything to do with helping the poor.
Matthew 25:41-46
Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the evil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.'
Then they will answer and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?' He will answer them, 'Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.'
And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
It seems to me that the actions / deeds / behaviors / practices / conduct of many if not most of TWI top leadership {most especially the BODs, but also Cabinet members, Trunk Coord, Region Coord, Limb Coord, etc.} were flaming examples of a legal breach of fiduciary duty, misrepresentation, fraud, negligence, among many others.
The counterfit or wannabe puts their desires ...their frustrations first.
That was all too evident and common with TWI leadership. They talked about the WC being fashioned after the military, but the military leadership were even more supportive, kind-hearted and instrumental in the growth and betterment of their troops. TWIt leadership were nothing like military leadership.
I remember the Moneyhands being very upset about having a vacation interrupted because someone died. GASP! How DARE this man die while they were on a tropical vacation and cause them to have to come home to deal with unbelieving family members and prepare a memorial service for someone who is responsible for his own death since he didn't take care of himself??? (Funny how that was NEVER mentioned about vee pee's death)
Remember how the leaders were always given the best seats in the house and always went first in the food lines? Remember how we got lists of how to "bless" them and rules for taking care of them when they visited our houses?
Mark, you have it right, my friend! There was no leadership by example; no compassion or actual "doing" of anything for the least of the brothers, much less anyone else.
Remember how the leaders were always given the best seats in the house and always went first in the food lines? Remember how we got lists of how to "bless" them and rules for taking care of them when they visited our houses?
Mark, you have it right, my friend! There was no leadership by example; no compassion or actual "doing" of anything for the least of the brothers, much less anyone else.
Excellent topic, Rascal!
TWI "leadership" reminds me of the following verses;
Matthew 23:1-15 (NIV)
1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
5"Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries[a] wide and the tassels on their garments long;
6they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them 'Rabbi.'
8"But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. 9And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ. 11The greatest among you will be your servant. 12For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
13"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
15"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
VPW was the MOGFOT, assumed by many (only within TWI) to be the apostle of our time. VPW was the modern day Paul.
Paul said, "be ye followers [imitators] of me." Logically then, folks who wanted to be spiritual leaders should imitate Paul, er VPW, being as he was supposed, the MOGFOT.
It's the word people! -- I didnt write the book !
So, folks set on really doing The Word stared smoking Kools, drinking Drambuei and became anal about such trivial things as raking carpet and stringing chairs (just like VPW). Folks observed VPW's butt chewings, obsessiveness, and abusiveness and against common sense and possibly their gut feelings, supposed it to be spirituality. So the imitations followed.
Enter L. Craig Martindale and a host of other VPW imitators .. After VPW died LCM was the standard to imitate....The rest is history.
One thing of note - is that many of us lower level wayfers accepted the abusive crapola from these VPW/LCM imitators, also supposing against common sense and our own gut feelings that these imitators were actually demonstrating spirituality. Instead of revolting against these imitating leaders as we should have, we followed them.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
rascal
wonderful post
i will reply soon
ask me about the "wonderful man of god" dana armstrong who set my then happy life on a couse of self destruction which happly i am no longer on
yes the name is dana armstrong and if you lurk here i would be "blessed" to buy you a beer after i kick you in the balls!!
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rascal
What I am groping around and attempting to point out is that simply presenting the scriptures to people does not make someone necessarily a christian much less a leader of Christians.
The brutal treatment with which we were *ministered* to.....is simply NOT how a genuine christian...one of the *spirit* behaves.
There were certain behaviors given as guidelines in the scriptures for us to recognise one another .... these aren`t things that you *fake* or try to be ...it is just there...the best I can describe it ...after encountering genuine christians is that it is an *inside* deal...
By the same token, there was a standard set for those who were to be considered leaders.....
I think that we misinterpreted a *knowledge of the scriptures* to mean the same thing as being christian.
and so I wonder if many of us are doomed to continue life in anger and frustration....assuming that because we have a knowledge of the bible...that we understand it.....
It isn`t untill you become familiar with the genuine....that you can recognise the difference.
I am not saying that I am necessarily even there myself.....but in meeting and interacting with some folks these last few years that I can now recognise as the *real* deal.... I now remember who/what I want to be.
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rascal
I wasn`t any higher than a tc.... and never deliberatly hurt anyone....but in looking back.... I still know that I still wasn`t quite *right*
I remember times when I could have been kind....and just shrugged off anothers pain....thinking that it was *their problem* I remember not standing up for a poor teenager who was being screamed at for something silly by the guy who had just married his mom...I remember the shame and mortification in the childs face....I knew what the bully was doing was dead wrong....I tried to comfort the boy ...but did I confront the foot hole that was bellowing at him...relishing his new role as head of household...his license to be a sadistic bully?
I remember one of my roomates didn`t have a car....she walked several miles to and from work every day uncomplaining of the rain, sleet, snow...sometimes she had to walk to another location that was over ten miles....how many times did I offer her a ride? Not nearly damned enough...n I though as tc that *I* was the spiritual one.....
We thought that we were spiritual because we knew scriptures.......because we were put in positions of responsibility and authority...I think that there must be more to genuine spirituality than simply knowledge......and that untill we can see beyond this...it is difficult to make the necessary changes to achieve that which we desire to be.
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Oakspear
"Accuracy" outweighed compassion, or we believed that they were the same. That, it and of itself, says a lot.
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markomalley
Matthew 25:31-40
From what I recall, this was about the exact opposite of what we were taught in TWI. I seem to recall contributing anything to help those in this situation was only "good" but not "best." And since we only did the "best" (puke), we were not to have anything to do with helping the poor.
Matthew 25:41-46
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ToadFriend
Your opening post, Rascal ... well put, well put!
TF
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jkboehme
rascal,
It seems to me that the actions / deeds / behaviors / practices / conduct of many if not most of TWI top leadership {most especially the BODs, but also Cabinet members, Trunk Coord, Region Coord, Limb Coord, etc.} were flaming examples of a legal breach of fiduciary duty, misrepresentation, fraud, negligence, among many others.
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Belle
That was all too evident and common with TWI leadership. They talked about the WC being fashioned after the military, but the military leadership were even more supportive, kind-hearted and instrumental in the growth and betterment of their troops. TWIt leadership were nothing like military leadership.
I remember the Moneyhands being very upset about having a vacation interrupted because someone died. GASP! How DARE this man die while they were on a tropical vacation and cause them to have to come home to deal with unbelieving family members and prepare a memorial service for someone who is responsible for his own death since he didn't take care of himself??? (Funny how that was NEVER mentioned about vee pee's death)
Remember how the leaders were always given the best seats in the house and always went first in the food lines? Remember how we got lists of how to "bless" them and rules for taking care of them when they visited our houses?
Mark, you have it right, my friend! There was no leadership by example; no compassion or actual "doing" of anything for the least of the brothers, much less anyone else.
Excellent topic, Rascal!
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Outin88.
TWI "leadership" reminds me of the following verses;
Matthew 23:1-15 (NIV)
1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
5"Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries[a] wide and the tassels on their garments long;
6they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them 'Rabbi.'
8"But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. 9And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ. 11The greatest among you will be your servant. 12For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
13"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
15"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
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Goey
So how did this all happen ?
VPW was the MOGFOT, assumed by many (only within TWI) to be the apostle of our time. VPW was the modern day Paul.
Paul said, "be ye followers [imitators] of me." Logically then, folks who wanted to be spiritual leaders should imitate Paul, er VPW, being as he was supposed, the MOGFOT.
It's the word people! -- I didnt write the book !
So, folks set on really doing The Word stared smoking Kools, drinking Drambuei and became anal about such trivial things as raking carpet and stringing chairs (just like VPW). Folks observed VPW's butt chewings, obsessiveness, and abusiveness and against common sense and possibly their gut feelings, supposed it to be spirituality. So the imitations followed.
Enter L. Craig Martindale and a host of other VPW imitators .. After VPW died LCM was the standard to imitate....The rest is history.
One thing of note - is that many of us lower level wayfers accepted the abusive crapola from these VPW/LCM imitators, also supposing against common sense and our own gut feelings that these imitators were actually demonstrating spirituality. Instead of revolting against these imitating leaders as we should have, we followed them.
How sick is that?
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Outin88.
Goey,
That picture says it all, lol.
And I agree 100% with what you wrote.
Thanks for the laugh!
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