well, not sure how twi got renewed mind into the agape definition, but sometimes it seems there is too much effort to prove twi was wrong on everything .... As hard as they may have tried to be all wrong, they may have been OK on a few things ...
I'm still interested in the Christian philosophy, so to speak. It seems the "being transformed by the renewing of the mind" was something the Christian was supposed to do ... it wasn't about salvation. Paul was telling Christians to change their thinking, he wasn't telling them it was OK to have sex outside your marriage, because God has renewed you regardless of your actions. Or something like that ... Disciples ... discipline .. you know ... that kind of thing ...
I don't even want to think about the greek or whatever ... to me the valuable point is that I am in charge of my thinking. Whether you think the Bible is an absolute standard or you feel computer programming is the way to the top ... it takes the individual to renew their mind to the Bible or the laws of computing ...
But I will try to love you uncondtionally regardless of how much you mess up my computer programs ... although I have had absolute hate of the devil toward some software (just briefly born of the wrong seed LOL) ...
I like the sports analogy too ... but I just play for fun ... I guess there could be a big game where there is a lot of pressure, but it is better just to play for fun most of the time ...
Long ago, I got to thinking about the "Renewed Mind" question - WHO does the renewing? My thinking was something like this: If I am able to renew my mind for myself, then I must be using my mind to do that. And if I am using my mind to renew my mind, then it must be my old mind that is renewing my mind to become a new mind. But if it's new, then it couldn't be old, and so the process of renewing couldn't really happen, because the old mind wasn't there any more. Oh brother. Yes, I'm blonde.
So I did some looking into it (which I'm not doing tonight, so forgive my lack of chapter and verse), but I found that in the verses that referred to renewing the mind, "renew" was always a passive verb. In other words, the subject is not really identified. It's like this: The ball was thrown - - or -- he threw the ball. In the first sentence, you don't know who threw the ball. That's passive. Get it? It's like that in the verses about renewed mind. It doesn't identify who does the renewing.
TWI explained it to mean that WE must do the renewing. I don't think so. I remember many times hearing one believer yell at another believer "Renew your mind !!!" , as a sort of cliche-style confrontation. They could just as reasonably yelled "Rebuild yourself out of dust !!!"
Nope. It's God that does the renewing.
That said, reconsider TWI's definition of agape - "The love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation in the household". Horse feathers !!! That is soooooo sick.
First of all, we were supposed to renew our own minds (impossible) and then it was only to occur in the household. Both of these pre-requisites made agape totally CONDITIONAL. See how twisted it all was?
I always hated when parents would yell at their kids...."renew your mind!"
I always disagreed with it only on the level of them being children and they didn't know the "word" to renew their mind to.
I would correctly say "change your thinking".
Which, Rhino, you are right. We have control of our thoughts and what we think about/hence actions.
But this is NOT what God is talking about in "renewing".
"Lead all thoughts captive to the obedience of Christ, whatsoever things are pure.............think on these things, put on the mind of Christ"..................this is what "we did" to help us.
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rhino
well, not sure how twi got renewed mind into the agape definition, but sometimes it seems there is too much effort to prove twi was wrong on everything .... As hard as they may have tried to be all wrong, they may have been OK on a few things ...
I'm still interested in the Christian philosophy, so to speak. It seems the "being transformed by the renewing of the mind" was something the Christian was supposed to do ... it wasn't about salvation. Paul was telling Christians to change their thinking, he wasn't telling them it was OK to have sex outside your marriage, because God has renewed you regardless of your actions. Or something like that ... Disciples ... discipline .. you know ... that kind of thing ...
I don't even want to think about the greek or whatever ... to me the valuable point is that I am in charge of my thinking. Whether you think the Bible is an absolute standard or you feel computer programming is the way to the top ... it takes the individual to renew their mind to the Bible or the laws of computing ...
But I will try to love you uncondtionally regardless of how much you mess up my computer programs ... although I have had absolute hate of the devil toward some software (just briefly born of the wrong seed LOL) ...
I like the sports analogy too ... but I just play for fun ... I guess there could be a big game where there is a lot of pressure, but it is better just to play for fun most of the time ...
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Xena
Bliss,
Long ago, I got to thinking about the "Renewed Mind" question - WHO does the renewing? My thinking was something like this: If I am able to renew my mind for myself, then I must be using my mind to do that. And if I am using my mind to renew my mind, then it must be my old mind that is renewing my mind to become a new mind. But if it's new, then it couldn't be old, and so the process of renewing couldn't really happen, because the old mind wasn't there any more. Oh brother. Yes, I'm blonde.
So I did some looking into it (which I'm not doing tonight, so forgive my lack of chapter and verse), but I found that in the verses that referred to renewing the mind, "renew" was always a passive verb. In other words, the subject is not really identified. It's like this: The ball was thrown - - or -- he threw the ball. In the first sentence, you don't know who threw the ball. That's passive. Get it? It's like that in the verses about renewed mind. It doesn't identify who does the renewing.
TWI explained it to mean that WE must do the renewing. I don't think so. I remember many times hearing one believer yell at another believer "Renew your mind !!!" , as a sort of cliche-style confrontation. They could just as reasonably yelled "Rebuild yourself out of dust !!!"
Nope. It's God that does the renewing.
That said, reconsider TWI's definition of agape - "The love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation in the household". Horse feathers !!! That is soooooo sick.
First of all, we were supposed to renew our own minds (impossible) and then it was only to occur in the household. Both of these pre-requisites made agape totally CONDITIONAL. See how twisted it all was?
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bliss
Yes, thanks.
I always hated when parents would yell at their kids...."renew your mind!"
I always disagreed with it only on the level of them being children and they didn't know the "word" to renew their mind to.
I would correctly say "change your thinking".
Which, Rhino, you are right. We have control of our thoughts and what we think about/hence actions.
But this is NOT what God is talking about in "renewing".
"Lead all thoughts captive to the obedience of Christ, whatsoever things are pure.............think on these things, put on the mind of Christ"..................this is what "we did" to help us.
IMO
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