I think the problem is systemic. When you have a supreme court that says with a straight face that pornography constitutes free speech; a free-market economy which uses sex to sell everything from deodorant and razor blades to beer, web hosting and cars; and a visual broadcast medium that uses little else *but* sex to draw viewers to programming even as mundane as newscasts, you are in deeper trouble than you might suspect.
I think the overemphasis on sex in our society distorts reality for many people. I believe this is especially true for teenagers and young adults, especially those who might not quite fit with the 'in' crowd. Life isn't primarily about getting your rocks off. And while not every viewer of porn turns into a child molester, I'm not sure its wise to make it widely and easily accessible. Don't we already have enough problems in this area, things like STDs, broken marriages, teen pregnancy and disorders like bulimia.
And speaking of perverts, did anybody think VPW's Christian Family & Sex class was just plain pornographic? Had he been around for the internet, he might have had his own site.
At risk of sounding like a broken record....What do we tell our children about being careful around their grandpa's?
The broken record part would be that point and this one....I'm convinced there are more family and friends sexually abusing their own sphere of influence than we'll ever read in court documents.
What of those?
I know, we don't have the answer. I'm just speaking my concern.
"At risk of sounding like a broken record....What do we tell our children about being careful around their grandpa's?
The broken record part would be that point and this one....I'm convinced there are more family and friends sexually abusing their own sphere of influence than we'll ever read in court documents."
Statistics would prove you correct. Far more incidents of child molestation occur between a family member and a child than between a stranger in a child. What do we tell our children? We teach our children about what is appropriate and inappropriate touch. The school my kids attend starts teaching this in kindergarden, but I began having these discussions with my children even before then. I began these discussions with my kids as we began learning the proper names for body parts. As we began discussing what would happen at the doctor's office when they had a physical examination. As we began discussing the differences between a boys body and a girls body. I did my best to keep the conversations within a context that was not scary, but would still allow for me to explain who was allowed to touch their body, where, and under what circumstances.
We also must teach our children that it is okay to say no to an adult, to yell, to kick. And we teach our children it is okay to tell. That between mom, dad, and children there should be NO SECRETS regardless of the threats someone else should make.
Jumping,
"And speaking of perverts, did anybody think VPW's Christian Family & Sex class was just plain pornographic? "
Yes. I was very uncomfortable when I took that class. I was even more uncomfortable because there were 13 year old children taking that class with me. Our class coordinator took two barbie dolls and positioned them in the "69" position on top of the television set. Talk about pruning a child for what may come later! Wow!
I've always valued your input. Because you put into action what you speak, I've seen it before in regards to children. Your experience in life has aided in your being more observant I suspect. What a blessing for your sons, and for Sushi who can put his trust in that.
For understandable reasons I'm sure I've been lead back to this point again. What of the child who was already deficient (myself as example) who craved just by human nature alone for a male to reach out and love her. And maybe we come back to the why didn't my mother see it in me. And where does that lead us but back to what happened to her in her life (my conception). Gosh, I guess I just can't use me as an example.
Let's say the child has a deficiency in some manner, possibly even unknown to the most loving of parents. What do we tell them to help them not reach out for inappropriate means of satisfying a yearning heart?
It is too pretty to sit here right now, I must go play for a bit (should you reply and I not right away).
Thank you Kathy. I am no different then you. Like you, I have taken the hard knocks and tried to use those lessons towards a positive purpose. Unfortunately Kathy, there is no "one answer fits all" to this problem. There are steps we can take to reduce the risks, but I don't think we can eliminate them altogether.
"What of the child who was already deficient (myself as example) who craved just by human nature alone for a male to reach out and love her. And maybe we come back to the why didn't my mother see it in me. And where does that lead us but back to what happened to her in her life (my conception). Gosh, I guess I just can't use me as an example. "
"Let's say the child has a deficiency in some manner, possibly even unknown to the most loving of parents. What do we tell them to help them not reach out for inappropriate means of satisfying a yearning heart?"
Unfortunately, if the parent does not see the deficiency, all we can pray for is that someone else in the community (a safe person) does. Even then, there may be only so much that person can do for the child.
BTW, I don't see "craving for a male to reach out and love" as a deficiency in the child, all children need love and role models from both genders. It could indicate a deficiency in parenting, though I do not mean that to sound as harsh as I suspect it does. I think most parents do the best they know how. None of us are born knowing how to be a good parent. Some parents also face more hardships than others. There are those who struggle with poverty and must face leaving their child unsupervised so they can work or face starvation and homelessness. There are those, like my own mom, who was struggling to make ends meet and go to school so we could all have a better life. That left her with little time to be physically, mentally, or emotionally present.
My mom could not protect me as a child because she did not have the mental and emotional ability to allow herself to see what was going on. Denial. I did speak up, she couldn't hear. Regardless, and while I believe she failed to protect me, I also believe she did the best she could. And perhaps it is because I know she did do her best and she did love me, that I have been able to overcome so much.
I spent more than my fair share of time at tittie bars...
I went because it was cheap entertainment while getting plastered.
The girls danced for tips and a percntage of the bar tab, I'd buy them a drink every now n then but mostly slipped a bill wherever it wuz supposed to go ;)
It got boring after awhile.
And then I quit drinking
There is a wide variety of porn flavors online some are now airbrushing their models to entice membership interested in the younger look.
I think part of the problem is the easy access to pornographic material. I mean give me a break, a kid with half a brain can access plenty and not pay a penny for it, from beastiality to golden showers. It is out there free for the taking.
There was just something special about being a teenager with a copy of Playboy...
well, from the perspective of a daughter who grew up witha porn loving Dad, I left as soon as legally possible, never looked back, my children met him once over 10 years ago for a very very short encounter. I will never go out of my way for him--ever.
Porn is part of what brought down my first marriage. This thread hits a serious nerve for me.
My first husband would often rent movies while I was at work. He would watch them and return them before I got home from work. I worked in retail management and often worked until 9:30-10PM at night - several nights a week. We were always on a tight budget, and often would come up short before payday. There would always be $10-20 I couldn't account for in expenses, but figured it was extra gas in the truck, or something of the sort - he couldn't always give me exact amounts. I didn't dare press the issue because I was scared of him.
It was when we were on staff at HQ, and Rev. T*0rpe confonted him, that the truth came out. I felt so stupid for not knowing. It wasn't just porn - it was gay porn. He had a double secret and I felt so nieve and out of touch for never putting it all together. It was like I had blinders on for years. It was embarassing, depressing, and scarey - and that was just the tip of that iceburg. I had noticed a change in his behavior over the years, as it seemed more effeminate, but thought I was thinking evil when I noted he was acting more femminine than I was (and Chas is pretty girly-girl...) but I didn't know how badly I was being decieved. Never again.
Porn is something I DO NOT allow in my house today. It's not an option. I drew a line in the sand from the beginning about it and don't believe it's "just a guy thing". It's the ultimate ultimatum, in my book. To me, what happens between your ears is as important and real as what could or does happen in the flesh. Porn is like cheating on a spouse, or significant other - you just don't do it. It's sin. Period.
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JumpinJive
I think the problem is systemic. When you have a supreme court that says with a straight face that pornography constitutes free speech; a free-market economy which uses sex to sell everything from deodorant and razor blades to beer, web hosting and cars; and a visual broadcast medium that uses little else *but* sex to draw viewers to programming even as mundane as newscasts, you are in deeper trouble than you might suspect.
I think the overemphasis on sex in our society distorts reality for many people. I believe this is especially true for teenagers and young adults, especially those who might not quite fit with the 'in' crowd. Life isn't primarily about getting your rocks off. And while not every viewer of porn turns into a child molester, I'm not sure its wise to make it widely and easily accessible. Don't we already have enough problems in this area, things like STDs, broken marriages, teen pregnancy and disorders like bulimia.
And speaking of perverts, did anybody think VPW's Christian Family & Sex class was just plain pornographic? Had he been around for the internet, he might have had his own site.
-JJ
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ChattyKathy
Again, wonderful input here.
At risk of sounding like a broken record....What do we tell our children about being careful around their grandpa's?
The broken record part would be that point and this one....I'm convinced there are more family and friends sexually abusing their own sphere of influence than we'll ever read in court documents.
What of those?
I know, we don't have the answer. I'm just speaking my concern.
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Abigail
Kathy,
"At risk of sounding like a broken record....What do we tell our children about being careful around their grandpa's?
The broken record part would be that point and this one....I'm convinced there are more family and friends sexually abusing their own sphere of influence than we'll ever read in court documents."
Statistics would prove you correct. Far more incidents of child molestation occur between a family member and a child than between a stranger in a child. What do we tell our children? We teach our children about what is appropriate and inappropriate touch. The school my kids attend starts teaching this in kindergarden, but I began having these discussions with my children even before then. I began these discussions with my kids as we began learning the proper names for body parts. As we began discussing what would happen at the doctor's office when they had a physical examination. As we began discussing the differences between a boys body and a girls body. I did my best to keep the conversations within a context that was not scary, but would still allow for me to explain who was allowed to touch their body, where, and under what circumstances.
We also must teach our children that it is okay to say no to an adult, to yell, to kick. And we teach our children it is okay to tell. That between mom, dad, and children there should be NO SECRETS regardless of the threats someone else should make.
Jumping,
"And speaking of perverts, did anybody think VPW's Christian Family & Sex class was just plain pornographic? "
Yes. I was very uncomfortable when I took that class. I was even more uncomfortable because there were 13 year old children taking that class with me. Our class coordinator took two barbie dolls and positioned them in the "69" position on top of the television set. Talk about pruning a child for what may come later! Wow!
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ChattyKathy
Abi,
I've always valued your input. Because you put into action what you speak, I've seen it before in regards to children. Your experience in life has aided in your being more observant I suspect. What a blessing for your sons, and for Sushi who can put his trust in that.
For understandable reasons I'm sure I've been lead back to this point again. What of the child who was already deficient (myself as example) who craved just by human nature alone for a male to reach out and love her. And maybe we come back to the why didn't my mother see it in me. And where does that lead us but back to what happened to her in her life (my conception). Gosh, I guess I just can't use me as an example.
Let's say the child has a deficiency in some manner, possibly even unknown to the most loving of parents. What do we tell them to help them not reach out for inappropriate means of satisfying a yearning heart?
It is too pretty to sit here right now, I must go play for a bit (should you reply and I not right away).
Kathy
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Abigail
Thank you Kathy. I am no different then you. Like you, I have taken the hard knocks and tried to use those lessons towards a positive purpose. Unfortunately Kathy, there is no "one answer fits all" to this problem. There are steps we can take to reduce the risks, but I don't think we can eliminate them altogether.
"What of the child who was already deficient (myself as example) who craved just by human nature alone for a male to reach out and love her. And maybe we come back to the why didn't my mother see it in me. And where does that lead us but back to what happened to her in her life (my conception). Gosh, I guess I just can't use me as an example. "
"Let's say the child has a deficiency in some manner, possibly even unknown to the most loving of parents. What do we tell them to help them not reach out for inappropriate means of satisfying a yearning heart?"
Unfortunately, if the parent does not see the deficiency, all we can pray for is that someone else in the community (a safe person) does. Even then, there may be only so much that person can do for the child.
BTW, I don't see "craving for a male to reach out and love" as a deficiency in the child, all children need love and role models from both genders. It could indicate a deficiency in parenting, though I do not mean that to sound as harsh as I suspect it does. I think most parents do the best they know how. None of us are born knowing how to be a good parent. Some parents also face more hardships than others. There are those who struggle with poverty and must face leaving their child unsupervised so they can work or face starvation and homelessness. There are those, like my own mom, who was struggling to make ends meet and go to school so we could all have a better life. That left her with little time to be physically, mentally, or emotionally present.
My mom could not protect me as a child because she did not have the mental and emotional ability to allow herself to see what was going on. Denial. I did speak up, she couldn't hear. Regardless, and while I believe she failed to protect me, I also believe she did the best she could. And perhaps it is because I know she did do her best and she did love me, that I have been able to overcome so much.
Perhapys therein lies the answer. Love.
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ChattyKathy
Oh my Abi, thank you for that. There was much comfort in that understanding.
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herbiejuan
I like Geo's chicken and egg example
I spent more than my fair share of time at tittie bars...
I went because it was cheap entertainment while getting plastered.
The girls danced for tips and a percntage of the bar tab, I'd buy them a drink every now n then but mostly slipped a bill wherever it wuz supposed to go ;)
It got boring after awhile.
And then I quit drinking
There is a wide variety of porn flavors online some are now airbrushing their models to entice membership interested in the younger look.
I think part of the problem is the easy access to pornographic material. I mean give me a break, a kid with half a brain can access plenty and not pay a penny for it, from beastiality to golden showers. It is out there free for the taking.
There was just something special about being a teenager with a copy of Playboy...
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washingtonweather
well, from the perspective of a daughter who grew up witha porn loving Dad, I left as soon as legally possible, never looked back, my children met him once over 10 years ago for a very very short encounter. I will never go out of my way for him--ever.
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ChasUFarley
Porn is part of what brought down my first marriage. This thread hits a serious nerve for me.
My first husband would often rent movies while I was at work. He would watch them and return them before I got home from work. I worked in retail management and often worked until 9:30-10PM at night - several nights a week. We were always on a tight budget, and often would come up short before payday. There would always be $10-20 I couldn't account for in expenses, but figured it was extra gas in the truck, or something of the sort - he couldn't always give me exact amounts. I didn't dare press the issue because I was scared of him.
It was when we were on staff at HQ, and Rev. T*0rpe confonted him, that the truth came out. I felt so stupid for not knowing. It wasn't just porn - it was gay porn. He had a double secret and I felt so nieve and out of touch for never putting it all together. It was like I had blinders on for years. It was embarassing, depressing, and scarey - and that was just the tip of that iceburg. I had noticed a change in his behavior over the years, as it seemed more effeminate, but thought I was thinking evil when I noted he was acting more femminine than I was (and Chas is pretty girly-girl...) but I didn't know how badly I was being decieved. Never again.
Porn is something I DO NOT allow in my house today. It's not an option. I drew a line in the sand from the beginning about it and don't believe it's "just a guy thing". It's the ultimate ultimatum, in my book. To me, what happens between your ears is as important and real as what could or does happen in the flesh. Porn is like cheating on a spouse, or significant other - you just don't do it. It's sin. Period.
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