I personally took this class of B.J. Leonard and upon the beginning of the class he mentioned plagureizion. I think well after the POP. He was mentioning quietly how VP stole his research. Among other things. Taking his class was like the Advance Class literally, it was a mirror image, without all of the scripture VP often said you have to have. He was right on no doubt. NO DOUGHT of what BJ was teaching. I began to wonder in those days much of what I went through in the Corps NOw I am beginning see more clearly.
Who here has taken BG Leonard classes, and what were they like?
What were the Aha! moments, what confusion did it clear up, what did you learn differently in the operation of manifestations (gifts) of the holy spirit?
Generaly speaking, overall what did it (they) do for you?
I've not had any other of Rev. Leonard's courses than Gifts of the Spirit, but I had it a few times and greatly enjoyed it.
My preconceived notion of Leonard was colored by Wierwille's casual dismissal of him in The Way: Living in Love, where VP praised him as 'great on experiences', but hat VP later took the material and 'put it together with the Word' or some such. (Sorry, that's based on long ago memory). This notion was blown to bits early in the course as there is far more scripture in his class than in Piffle. And, while I don't necessarily agree with his every point, his points were more carefully supported by multiple scriptures.
As far as his teaching on walking in use of the Gifts, the fundamental difference was spiritual.
--I see Wierwille's approach in the Piffle series as being a mechanistic, how-to, self-help, keys and principles, follow-the-bouncing-ball, connect-the-dots routine. The same was true whether it was 12th session, Intermediate (Burton's version taking the mechanistic approach to a new extreme), or 12 or 14 or 16 'keys' in the Advanced Class.
--I see Leonard's approach as spiritual, faith-based, Bible-based and focused on walking out on faith in the Lord. I found it both refreshing and empowering and has been BG's lasting legacy for me, personally.
I had the pleasure of hosting the Leonard's in my home for about 3 weeks. Far from being the 'big cheese', Leonard was humble, never asking for anything or expecting anything, and exhibited Christian love and character in his speech and demeanor. That was pretty refreshing for a cult of personality escapee like moi.
My preconceived notion of Leonard was colored by Wierwille's casual dismissal of him in The Way: Living in Love, where VP praised him as 'great on experiences', but hat VP later took the material and 'put it together with the Word' or some such. (Sorry, that's based on long ago memory).
pg 207, TW:LiL:
"We took his whole trip- really learned a lot about the other
manifestations of the holy spirit. But he worked from personal experiences.
I worked what he taught from the accuracy of the Scriptures. When I came home,
I made up my mind that I was going to tie the whole thing together from Genesis to
Revelation."
This notion was blown to bits early in the course as there is far more scripture in his class than in Piffle. And, while I don't necessarily agree with his every point, his points were more carefully supported by multiple scriptures.
As far as his teaching on walking in use of the Gifts, the fundamental difference was spiritual.
--I see Wierwille's approach in the Piffle series as being a mechanistic, how-to, self-help, keys and principles, follow-the-bouncing-ball, connect-the-dots routine. The same was true whether it was 12th session, Intermediate (Burton's version taking the mechanistic approach to a new extreme), or 12 or 14 or 16 'keys' in the Advanced Class.
--I see Leonard's approach as spiritual, faith-based, Bible-based and focused on walking out on faith in the Lord. I found it both refreshing and empowering and has been BG's lasting legacy for me, personally.
I had the pleasure of hosting the Leonard's in my home for about 3 weeks. Far from being the 'big cheese', Leonard was humble, never asking for anything or expecting anything, and exhibited Christian love and character in his speech and demeanor. That was pretty refreshing for a cult of personality escapee like moi.
(p. 91) "In June of 1953, four months after Dr. Wierwille's initial trip, our family traveled with two other carloads of our friends to Calgary to take B.G. Leonard's class which he called The Gifts of the Spirit. At his Christian Training Centre, a large upstairs room over the pawnshop, our son Don and I (Mrs. W.) were students of this class from June 28 to July 15. Dr. Wierwille was with us, but of course he was not a new student, though he wanted to sit through the class again because what B.G. Leonard was teaching was so thrilling and powerful about the 'gifts' of holy spirit and about spiritual healing."
My wife has read his "Healing Made Plain" book and said it's very good. Interestingly,The intro page is about the sin of plaigarism.
She said his tape set on the subject is a mess, that he rambles on about stuff that has nothing to do with the subject and she thought that maybe it was recorded when he was older and not as sharp as he used to be.
Had Wierwille been more faithful to both the content and (especially) the heart of Leonard's course, Piffle might not have been half bad. As it is, though, it's hopelessly rotten.
In the end, they're not anything like the same thing.
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TheEvan
One particular AHA moment was hearing him refer to Maggie Muggins, Henry Boloco & Snowball Pete.
Things that make you go hmmmm, and re-evaluate assumptions...
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GT
I took his class, only it was called Power For Abundant Living.
Same class, different teacher (a plagerizing BG wanna-be). Wish I never took it.
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fellowshipper
I personally took this class of B.J. Leonard and upon the beginning of the class he mentioned plagureizion. I think well after the POP. He was mentioning quietly how VP stole his research. Among other things. Taking his class was like the Advance Class literally, it was a mirror image, without all of the scripture VP often said you have to have. He was right on no doubt. NO DOUGHT of what BJ was teaching. I began to wonder in those days much of what I went through in the Corps NOw I am beginning see more clearly.
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TheEvan
I've not had any other of Rev. Leonard's courses than Gifts of the Spirit, but I had it a few times and greatly enjoyed it.
My preconceived notion of Leonard was colored by Wierwille's casual dismissal of him in The Way: Living in Love, where VP praised him as 'great on experiences', but hat VP later took the material and 'put it together with the Word' or some such. (Sorry, that's based on long ago memory). This notion was blown to bits early in the course as there is far more scripture in his class than in Piffle. And, while I don't necessarily agree with his every point, his points were more carefully supported by multiple scriptures.
As far as his teaching on walking in use of the Gifts, the fundamental difference was spiritual.
--I see Wierwille's approach in the Piffle series as being a mechanistic, how-to, self-help, keys and principles, follow-the-bouncing-ball, connect-the-dots routine. The same was true whether it was 12th session, Intermediate (Burton's version taking the mechanistic approach to a new extreme), or 12 or 14 or 16 'keys' in the Advanced Class.
--I see Leonard's approach as spiritual, faith-based, Bible-based and focused on walking out on faith in the Lord. I found it both refreshing and empowering and has been BG's lasting legacy for me, personally.
I had the pleasure of hosting the Leonard's in my home for about 3 weeks. Far from being the 'big cheese', Leonard was humble, never asking for anything or expecting anything, and exhibited Christian love and character in his speech and demeanor. That was pretty refreshing for a cult of personality escapee like moi.
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WordWolf
pg 207, TW:LiL:
"We took his whole trip- really learned a lot about the other
manifestations of the holy spirit. But he worked from personal experiences.
I worked what he taught from the accuracy of the Scriptures. When I came home,
I made up my mind that I was going to tie the whole thing together from Genesis to
Revelation."
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WordWolf
From Mrs Wierwille's book, Born Again to Serve..
(p. 91) "In June of 1953, four months after Dr. Wierwille's initial trip, our family traveled with two other carloads of our friends to Calgary to take B.G. Leonard's class which he called The Gifts of the Spirit. At his Christian Training Centre, a large upstairs room over the pawnshop, our son Don and I (Mrs. W.) were students of this class from June 28 to July 15. Dr. Wierwille was with us, but of course he was not a new student, though he wanted to sit through the class again because what B.G. Leonard was teaching was so thrilling and powerful about the 'gifts' of holy spirit and about spiritual healing."
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TOMMYZ
My wife has read his "Healing Made Plain" book and said it's very good. Interestingly,The intro page is about the sin of plaigarism.
She said his tape set on the subject is a mess, that he rambles on about stuff that has nothing to do with the subject and she thought that maybe it was recorded when he was older and not as sharp as he used to be.
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Belle
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TheEvan
Had Wierwille been more faithful to both the content and (especially) the heart of Leonard's course, Piffle might not have been half bad. As it is, though, it's hopelessly rotten.
In the end, they're not anything like the same thing.
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now I see
What is so different about how the manifestations/gifts are taught?
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