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Showing content with the highest reputation on 05/04/2022 in Posts

  1. C) The alleged promise was based on ignorance. twi's system shares a trait with the Mikean system- they're both Gnostic systems based on secret knowledge. The twi system-which was vpw's system, set up by him and used by him all the time- was that study of the verses was the key to God (plus the "Law of Believing"),. So, the more you study the verses, the more "godly" you can become, especially if you study it the twi way. We've all seen far too many horror stories of twi "masters" who partly memorized vpw/twi materials and were bigger schmucks if anything. Geer spent hours going over vpw's teachings in between drugging women for vpw to rape and preparing to throw himself over vpw as a human shield if anyone tried to shoot him. But, let's expose the IGNORANCE in the alleged "promise." How DID the 1st century Christian church know God's Word? They knew the Torah/Old Testament. They knew the SPOKEN word, They knew The Word BY EXPERIENCE AND POWER. Think about it. They were getting converts left and right while being a disciple was ILLEGAL and punished by imprisonment, murder, or both. They got LOTS of converts with that going on. No amount of charismatic demagoguery can make up for the risk of being killed or imprisoned. You might get a few disaffected outsiders. Saul of Tarsus joined them - a former persecutor and murderer of Christians (he didn't put his hand on the knife, but he ordered it done.) Did the Greeks hear good speeches then run out and conclude that their gods walked among them and prepared to offer blood sacrifices? They SAW something. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. However, provide the extraordinary proof, and the claims stop looking extraordinary-at least in comparison to the proof. The 1st century Christians preached-but were known because they had power and could deliver where they spoke. Lots of people preached and didn't get significant converts. Theirs was a pragmatic, direct, power-based ministry. twi was never that. They were study-based, and TALKED ABOUT power lots of times, then considered "Kojacking" a significant witness of "power." 1st century Christians were never centrally-controlled nor organized. twi bore no resemblance to 1st century Christianity except where twi CLAIMED they did. But all the claims don't mean reality matches a claim. The 1st century Christians probably didn't have access to the entire New Testament ANYWHERE. All documents had to be hand-copied. With no printing press and no scanners and PDFs, that was a laborious process and few copies circulated for the 1st century AD (certainly relative to now.) So, twi has NEVER had "The Word as it was known in the 1st Century." because vpw NEVER had "The Word as it was known in the 1st Century." vpw might have known that when he phrased the promise he was supposedly given, but he skipped over "Church history". So, he was likely to make such a mistake where God Almighty would not. vpw made up the alleged 1942 promise. and it's easy to show all the errors. There was no such promise. There's no real, sensible reason to laud vpw or "his" books. They don't comrpise "revelation."
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  2. B) The alleged promise was a lie. Supposedly, God Almighty promised He would teach like it hadn't been known since the 1st century AD. If this were true, there would be a complete disconnect with what was being taught and known elsewhere in 1942 EVERYWHERE and what vpw later taught (because we know he taught others.) However, even those who idolize vpw agree that the material he taught was already taught by others. A paper trail can be traced for virtually all the twi material vpw taught. vpw took Leonard's class, and a few months later, taught 100% of the same material. vpw bought Stiles' book, then typed up a book with the contents- later adding the contents of books by Bullinger to flesh it out more. And so on. So, either God Almighty lied when giving this promise, someone else claiming to be God lied and vpw couldn't tell the difference between a lying spirit and God Almighty, or vpw lied and nobody promised him at all.
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  3. All right, how many ways can we show this 1942 promise failed? We've done it lots of times before. A) The miraculous snowstorm never happened. There was NO report of actual snow anywhere near where this allegedly happened. When it supposedly happened, he didn't even tell his own wife it happened. Come on, that would have been the first words out of any spouse's mouth that evening. ("Honey, you'll never believe what happened to me today...") He never claimed it until decades later. He couldn't keep the details of the miraculous event straight, even. When he first began making this claim, he said the sky looked BLACK with all the heavy snow. This, BTW, isn't what it looks like for even the heaviest snow. Later-probably because he learned that doesn't happen- he switched to saying the sky was WHITE with snow. I'm sure details can get lost over time, but if a miraculous event that turns the sky all one color, you'd at least remember the color. Finally, this wasn't the only time vpw claimed a miraculous snowstorm. In fact, he did it whenever it was convenient. When he added special significance to the minister's conference where he met Stiles, vpw claimed that the entire city was snowed in completely. He was unable to get out because planes, trains and buses were all stopped due to heavy snow conditions, a blizzard. This was a rather big lie, and one that was checkable. When someone spoke to him about it, he didn't say "I was there and saw the snow and walked in it, check again", he immediately switched his story to prevent trying to contradict the weather report. He immediately began claiming the snow was an angelic apparition- angels made him see snow that wasn't there, and when he phoned transit places, angels answered the phone and lied to him. (He would rather have us think angels lied than that he lied.) In reality, not even a single FLAKE fell from the sky in that city that day, and the temperature didn't reach freezing. This wasn't the last time vpw made up a convenient snowstorm, even. A poster here once noted that vpw was supposed to visit their area. Instead, he phoned and said that he WANTED to fly there, but he was located at a bad snowstorm and he was told it was unsafe. The poster checked the weather in vpw's area at the time, and there was neither snow nor storms predicted. So, the entire snow part was a lie. Without that, there's no 1942 promise. However, even if it was possible for there to have been a snowstorm (it's not possible), the other problems with his story would be enough to discredit it. There WAS no 1942 promise. vpw was NEVER some great one. pfal was NEVER some great class nor great study materials. It was all built up as a con-and not the most secure con, either. It needed lots of outside help to prop it up.
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  4. Everything Mike says depends on the supposed 1942 promise being correct. Every now and again, someone still claims that pfal and twi were special. Their reason for this is the claim that vpw was special. Their reason for this is the 1942 promise. vpw claimed he received a promise from God Almighty in 1942, and he used this claim to justify thinking of "his" books and classes to akin to the Bible itself. The supposition that pfal was of significant long-term benefit hangs primarily on the alleged "1942 promise." That promise, as stated by vpw, was that God spoke audibly to vpw, and promised that God Almighty would teach vpw God's Word like it hadn't been known since the first century (AD) if vpw would teach it to others. vpw supposedly asked God to confirm this by a miraculous snowstorm. All right, how many ways can we show this 1942 promise failed? We've done it lots of times before...
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  5. Yessir! I did a loose knot article on the law of believing...for those interested... https://cloud.disroot.org/s/o2n6WBFDT3BNnSQ In a nutshell all of the power of positive thinking BS introduced into Christianity in the last couple hundred years traces back to Phineas Parkhurst Quimby, Helena Blavatsky, and other occultists who intermingled occultic practices into Christianity. Imagine that...someone mixing paganism into Christianity...who woulda thunk....suffice it to say any roads leading back to EW Kenyon are polluted with this BS.
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  6. In case anyone is late to this 20-some-odd-year-old "conversation," the real problem is that Wierwille in his writings which ARE allegedly God-breathed provides us with very specific characteristics of the "God-breathed" word, characteristics his own writings do not live up to. We have cited multiple examples, any one of which would disqualify the thesis that Wierwille's writings are God-breathed according to Wierwille's outline of the characteristics of God-breathed writings. The preferred method of dealing with these... let's call them Actual Errors in PFAL, has been to dodge. Distract. Deny. Anything but admit an error is an error. I swear I am not making any of that up. Anywho, My views have changed dramatically since we first engaged in this debate. I've come to the realization that the only thing Wierwille wrote that was genuinely true was that he reached the point in his life where he no longer believed the words "holy" or "bible" on the cover of the book. Everything he said and did in his life from that point forward is consistent with a con man milking gullible people for everything they're worth, abusing their sincerity for his own personal profit. But to be certain, one can remain a faithful believer in Christ while also realizing that Wierwille's characteristics of the God-breathed Word not only don't apply to his own writings, but they don't apply to the Bible either. Because the Bible is not God's Word. I'm not saying that because I'm an unbeliever. I'm saying that because if you read the Bible, you realize very quickly that it does not consider itself God's Word. It doesn't even consider itself a thing. The Bible is not aware of itself as "a" book. That's why Wierwille can say he didn't believe the word "holy" (because his education showed him it wasn't) or "Bible" (because that gives the 66 documents a unity they never had in authorship or compilation). Wierwille came to the same realization I did. He just chose to milk the church where I chose to leave it. The Bible is not the God-breathed Word even according to the Bible! God's Word, Biblically, can be learned from reading the Bible, but they are not the same thing. They do not pretend to be. When you see it that way, contradictions and errors are just things to ignore. Mistakes made by men making a good faith effort to communicate God's will. Nothing falls apart if a preposition is out of place. Luke and Matthew can just disagree about what happened to Judas, neither of them knowing for sure because they didn't know any apostles. Biblical errors and contradictions are the natural result of different authors writing about the same characters decades apart with conflicting sources of information. And Wierwille's errors can just be ignored as the growing pains of someone who adjusted his teaching as he learned more, whether he was sincere about it or not. But Wierwille's books are God-breathed? Nonsense. Not if Wierwille was right about what God-breathed means. And you can bank on that regardless of how you feel about my current beliefs.
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