JustThinking

In the nineties attendance was an issue. You had to call and explain why you couldn't make it.

Did the FC call you or file a report with the higher-ups? Just curious. If it was put in writing, it's probably in a file somewhere.

JT

I was obviously very busy, and he was trying to chat about his stupid Fellowship. "What a class act", I remember thinking. "Join another fellowship" my a**! I'd rather go get tied up and whipped at the local Fetish Night!

I think the fetish thing was reserved for Way Corps only.

JT

Want to hear something funny.

In the latter end of the 90s and into the 2000s the ministry would shut down whole areas, towns and cities if there were no corps to send there. They would tell the believers to move to another town where there were corps present to "lead" them.

Where they led them to is the question. (Usually down the drain).

OMG, I remember that! It was even suggested to some WOWs (or whatever they were called by then) to "move to where the WORD was." Then the corpse moved because they found a cheaper house. So the WoWs were just kicked to the curb. Nice, huh?

I can't remember any real life in the twig past the mid 90s. Maybe early 90s.

JT

Possibly about that many. Graduating classes have been in the single digits for some time now.

I still remember reading about graduating classes of FIVE.

twi, of course, doesn't say "5 people graduated"- they talked about "20%" of the grads moving onto

THIS activity, and "20%" moving onto another. BTW, 20% of 5 means ONE grad.

:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

That's hysterical!!!! Really?!!! How lame can you GET?!

JT

I heard that VP had said that God had given him revelation that there would always be at least two people standing in twi until Jesus came back.

Any truth to this? I mean, truth that he said it... I certainly hope twi falls apart by then!

It's four. Rozilla, her "assistant" Ms Craig, their account and lawyer. :unsure:

JT

Did the leadership only keep track of the classes, or did they follow attendance in the Fellowship as well?

I don't remember even seeing anyone keep track of attendance. The ONLY focus was on the money generating activities such as running classes. That's about it. There was never any tracking of how the existing people were doing. It was actually embarrassing to see how impoverished they were. (On many levels) A new person came with me once and said "your friends all look like losers. Nothin' personal. Why do they talk about abundance and look like they don't have a pot to p**s in?"

No wonder TWI was shrinking...

JT

What kind of things did people get kicked out or marked and avoided for?

In our area, people were kicked out at the beginning for the smallest things. However, once the fellowships got pretty small, it seemed like they were less prone to toss folks out the door. When they got down to just three people, they would hang onto you for dear life. A branch coordinator had to have two fellowships to keep his/her job. Minimum three people in each. Kick just one out and, poof, no more BC. IF that did happen, we would just shuffle one of the deck chairs on the LieTannic to shore up the two person fellowship and move on. Eventually, we got down to a gag-gle of very small, boring fellowships. Couldn't combine though. That would "limit the opportunities for growth." Hahahahahaha....

BTW, my last three years were full of weekly and very mandatory "outreach" sessions. No one new at fellowship? MUST go out witnessing after fellowship. Even on a school night with little kids. At nine o'clock at night. (7:30 fellowship followed by mandatory refreshments) I did not see one new single person start coming, take a class and stay for even a month. The only "growth" was through way kids. Most classes were 2/3 full of 12 year olds. It got so bad they lowered the minimum number of students twice. If they hadn't, way kids would have waited as much as two to three years just to pull together one foundational class with seven recruits. They had people come from as far as two hours away just to make it work. Talk about being on life support.

As for reasons to get booted, it was usually one of two big things. Debt was numero uno. If you had a house that was bought 20 years ago with a 30 year loan, you had to sell it NOW to get out of debt. No matter the financial impact or how old you were. Refuse and you would be tormented, oops, "counseled." Any back talk and you'd likely be labelled a "homo" and tossed on your rear. No kidding.

The other was not allowing the local corpse to jump into your life and run it. NO question was too personal. Fail to comply and you were "spiritually suspect." That's one step away from "homo." Sort of like a sliding scale. :(

JT

So back to the question at hand...

I knew Claudette AFTER the POP and meltdown, etc. She never expressed an opinion on such matters to me but then we weren't long time friends either. She did get sent on the field for a while but not sure why. If she had major heartburn, it sure didn't show. And as I'm not the searcher of hearts...

JT

I had the privilege of getting to know Claudette and spending time in her home on many occasions. I care how she feels and how she's doing. Going by how she treated me and how I saw her live, I love her very much. She taught me many life lessons that I use today. I also saw her do things when nobody else could see that were an inspiration. And that includes for non-wayfers and people that others wouldn't give the time of day. Even a homeless person. If you didn't know her personally, please be careful of making assumptions.

And, yes, I know there could be bad things about her, what did she know, etc. I can't comment there. Just going by my own two eyeballs.

JT

The truly stupid thing is, both these men were clearly carrying on VPW's true legacy: letchery, backstabbing, and narcissism.

THAT is an insightful statement. (IMHO)

JT

I think LCM trotted him out to sing one song at an ROA in '92 or '93 my memory is hazy.

Seth

Seth,

I seem to remember the same thing. There were a few folks like Dave Lutz who were still in but packed up and moved out of the cornfield. Dave was given the great honor of performing once while I was at HQ visiting.

Not sure if Bob's circumstances were. I ran into him at a ROA while he was in FL and had a brief nice chat. Seems like a very nice guy. Approachable, without the 1990s "bow down, I'm WAY CORPS" attitude.

JT

Fellow Laborers of Ohio

So was the program in Utah called FLU?

Welcome to Grease Spot, Aball001 !

There's some good systematic theologies out there [there's a few I highly recommend – if anyone's interested, PM me – as it is this post is way too long already - my apologies to Just Thinking and everyone else on this thread…actually it's just a poll…man oh man, I'm outta control here!...but I haven't posted much lately, and I gots to keep up with my quota dontcha know ] – but there's one I especially like – again it's affordable and simple: More Than Redemption: A Theology of Christian Counseling by Jay Adams. Doctrine affects practice – and much of this book got me to look at the practical impact of doctrine.

I'm good. This is actually good info. (IMHO) It also gives me a better answer than just a poll. I really was curious what the lasting impact was. It is a bit surprising to see that more people gained interest than lost. For those who came into TWI as a christian, I'm glad to see there were some positive outcomes.

JT

Waysider,

What was FLO?

JT

I hate to nitpick but...

To me, Wayworld was more like communist Russia. Hitler was pretty upfront about his intentions. Wrote a book, announced it on the radio and pretty much said "we're going to get rid of Jews, etc." Stalin was a monster who killed millions too but he was much better at PR and crafting a public image. He had many in the U.S. believing in his "workers paradise." In Germany, you could see the undesirable types being loaded on trains. In Russia, they just disappeared. With the exception of Craig's temporary stint announcing dropped Corpse, folks were just...gone. It was actually creepy. One day they were there and then...not. And the management at TWI just pretended not to notice. Singing for WayProd one day (Dave Lutz) and the next your tapes were gone from the bookstore. When Stalin purged you, he actually had photos retouched to remove you completely.

...now we return to our regularly scheduled programming...

JT

Hi JustThinking,

Normally I'm not an enthusiastic poll responder at all, more like an anti-poller actually, but this one you started I really like.

I'm very glad. Hopefully, it's constructive.

For me, my time in TWI was short enough that my interest in the Bible never wained at all, it only grew. I think if I had suffered as others have at TWI's hands that might not be the case however.

After TWI I was involved with a little splinter group that deliberately did all they could do to break my spirit and ruin my life, and during that experience I've come to rely on the Bible even more than ever before. In that respect I am thankful. It's not been easy however.

JT

I was somewhat interested in the bible pre-TWI but couldn't make heads nor tales out of it. Post-TWI I have a high level of interest, as I have all along, maybe more.

Involvement in TWI didn't hinder or hurt my interest, it actually fed it and kindled it.

But what's this about George being an atheist? When did that start?

Funny, he doesn't LOOK like an atheist...

Interested in a different way now. Or perhaps it was that TWI derailed my interest.

I try to read it for pleasure, interest, understanding and application.

I specifically try to avoid reading it to understand the Greek/Hebrew/other words.

Rarely read KJV (too many connotations) but I miss the notes in the Companion Bible.

Now I read a variety of other versions, some of which are wild (The Message), some of which are bland (NIV) and occasionally some which are questionable (NLT)

However, the pre-WC days when I would spend a morning lounging in the sun engrossed in some OT book (just for pleasure) seem to have vanished.

So, it's not that you made a conscious decision then to read it less? Out of curiousity, do you still attend a place of worship or Bible study of some kind? I ask because (only in my opinion) it seemed that the Bible was only secondary to some in TWI. The social aspect came first. (Looking for somewhere to belong?) The Bible "stuff" was secondary. Lose the social aspect and maybe the rest goes away too. Not sure if I'm saying that well... Hope it makes sense.

JT

No more annoying that the "just thank you" prayers...

"Father, I want to just thank you for..." Over and over and over and over and over and...."

JT

Despite all the problems I saw in TWI, I did end up with more respect for the Bible than before. Just curious if others did as well. I'd love to hear where you are now. Call it research, reading or whatever. If someone sparked an interest or desire that remains, what did it?

JT

I'm surprised he did not ofer to wash off the bumper and slap one on like Uncle H.E. used to do.

Uhh...a BC do physical work? You must have left a LOOONNNGGG time ago. That practice ended in the 90s when the corps became full-time, absolute rulers of all they surveyed.

I think it was a theme for a year...

And the one after that was Building Biblical Understanding II - The REVENGE!

Wasn't Mel Brooks in that? ;)

JT

Only a TWI flashback could put this thought in my head:

Do you mean dating between two SINGLE people? :)

You sure it didn't read "Building Biblical Understanding?" That was a theme a while back when we were still in - and you know how twi loves alliteration!

A theme? As in class theme?

This topic reminded me of the time( well, ,one of many times) I was raked over the coals by the limb leader in Ct. He happened to see me drive by on the states busiest highway, and was astonished that I didn't display a way bumper sticker.

I had 2 thoughts. One was frustration that I couldn't even drive down the street without doing something 'wrong', and the other was wondering why he'd even want to advertise the way on my piece of junk 200 dollar car which was all I could afford, and was usually stuck on the side of the road while I took advantage of the guy in my twig who knew how to fix cars, to come out and do repairs for free.

I was handed a bumper sticker, and practically followed out to my car to make sure I put it on. I don't recall if he made me pay for the bumper sticker, but it wouldn't surprise me if I did.

I had a BC try the same thing with me. My suggestion was to let me wash the car first to make sure it stayed on well. Well...a whole lot of years later and still no bumper sticker. Ugh, those WAP class stickers were embarrassing. Perhaps they could have just said "I'm a weirdo, keep your kids away from me!"

BUMP! (Someone asked about this in another thread)

While riding home this morning from my club i was again awestruck by the vivid greens of the trees'the brilliant blue of the sky

and the pure white clouds.

So,i think God's favorite colors must be green blue and white

ok so a dumb post but i feel thankful for these colors and that i can see and enjoy them!

God's favorite colors? Black and Gold. Go Pens!!!! (For you hockey fans watching the Stanley Cup Playoffs)

JT

As of 2001 10 states did not have their own Limb Leader and were combined with other states that did.

Do we know if their numbers have gone up or down since then?

And to play any one of several big shots roaming around ROA...

Howard maybe?