Nottawayfer

I think if people decided what they wanted out of life and started living the life along with learning to love themselves (even if they are alone), then they are in a better place to attract someone who is emotionally healthy for them.

After my divorce, I spent 9 years making mistakes with horrible relationships. These 9 years were during the most trying time of a woman's life to be single (my 30s). I was DESPEREATE to get married and start having a family. Again, I believe God protected me from my own agenda. There was a lot of heartache and disappointment until I left TWI at 39 and started realizing I needed to cultivate who I wanted to be. I didn't want to be the girl who grew up in an unhappy alcoholic home whose parents married twice and are still unhappy. I didn't want to be a failure at relationships or marriage again. I didn't want to keep walking in circles because I was lost on my trail. I wanted to discover that new trail of my life which had georgous sunsets and beautiful trees and flowers.

I started going to my favorite place on earth, Torrey Pines State Park in San Diego. It has hiking trails which overlook the ocean. That was calming and exhilerating at the same time. Enjoying nature and just talking to my innerself. I went places to meet new people (i.e., weight watchers, kindness ministry at church, women's small group at church, craft classes). I met my best friend today at one of those functions. That was the only time I was thankful for door-to-door witnessing. I wasn't afraid to approach people and start talking. It's was a lot easier when I didn't have an agenda. I just wanted to see what kind of person they were and wanted to see if there was a chance to develop a healthy friendship. My BFF and I went to dinners together; we went on a Mexico vacation together; and we shared our dreams of having a healthy relationship. I didn't miss dating because I had my BFF. We dated each other (without the romantic stuff ;)).

After I knew I could date without thinking it could be something more because I wanted to make them prove to me that they were worthy of me, I did internet dating. I went had over 20 dates within 6 months. I met a lot of fun people, weird people, and sucky people. It was fun because I wasn't in it for a relationship. I was in it to meet people. I guess it was kind of a time to prove to myself that I could date and not get wrapped up in someone emotionally. I drew a line up front about physical stuff with myself and the date.

Then I met my husband. He lived 360 miles from me in the next state. We talked on the phone and instant messaged on yahoo for HOURS and HOURS. We learned about each other, learned about our pasts, learned about our previous marriages and why they broke down, and learned about what made each other tick. We did this all without getting physcially involved (obviously because of the distance). We spoke on the phone every night. We spoke more than 14 hours a week.

After 3 weeks, we met in person. He felt like home, but I wasn't going to make a hasty decision. We took turns visiting every other weekend. I met his friends, his family, and his co-workers. Every person I met had many great things to say about him. We went to dinner with his childhood friend and his wife. They shared stories about what they did as kids. Everything I saw and heard allowed me to know who this guy was.

Because we spent more time getting to know each other before having a relationship, it allowed us to decide to marry by the 4th month we knew each other. My mind was doing flip flops over that because I SWORE I would only marry after a lengthy engagement. I thought it through many times for many days and couldn't see a reason why I shouldn't. I didn't see any red flags. I honestly searched within myself about why we would be together. It was because we enjoyed each other at all times of the day. It wasn't about money or status or sex. I'm not saying we are perfect people by any means. But I feel we did the homework to enjoy what we are today. We've will celebrate our 5th anniversary in a few months.

Many can say that we are still newly weds and that we still have to get to know each other. I know this marriage is different than my first. At the 5th anniversary of my first marriage, I was planning how I would leave. I started thinking about divorce by the 3rd anniversary of my first marriage. Divorce is not even in my thoughts now. I KNOW I've done it better this time.

There are no fairy tales. Live in reality in your relationships. Romance is not flowers, dinners, passionate love making, or "I've waiting for you my whole life." That can be true, but it shouldn't be the basis for a relationship. Get to know each other as people BEFORE you get serious with someone. If you don't, the googly stage will take over your mind and common sense. I don't even remember a googly stage with my husband. I feel everything we've experienced has been real, not built-up romance.

Then once you get your soulmate, cherish them and never take them for granted. Learn to speak their love language and do it. Sure we get busy and wrapped up with life, but we always have to take time to nurture our relationships. Instead of getting resentful like I did in my past, I just ask my husband "What is my love language?" He smiles every time. We established that we would speak each other's love language from the very beginning, and it allows us to go back to the foundation we set without resentment.

I wouldn't be enjoying what I do today had I not taken the time to nurture myself and figure out why I had made the choices I did in the past.

Ham,

I understand people trying to keep it going because we still believe saving marriage is still honorable, and it is. I remember the bondage I felt to leave my first husband over his drug use. In my mind, I made a commitment to him and God. When the light finally came through, I knew that marraige was never what God intended for me. I didn't listen when God was telling me it wasn't the best choice for my life.

Many people stay in miserable marriages because it becomes comfortable for them. Or it becomes too much of a chore to think about leaving when they know they need to. People like to take the easier path or make less waves.

despite one's best efforts (for the most part) sometimes one just doesn't find out until twenty five years, and two or three children later..

they've been horribly unhappy and dissatisfied for YEARS.. and there were NO clues. Just strategy..

maybe we're all nuts..

I can see in that in one's psyche.. not willing or being able to be "kept" or *really* loved... but trying to convince oneself otherwise. I can see how a woman would feel trapped.

Ham,

That's life learning. It's too bad when someone waits 25 years to see something for what it is. Although I find it hard to understand that someone would not see something until 25 years later.

I don't think it's entirely about being clueless.

Perhaps some women just don't want to (or can't be) "kept"..

maybe.. sometimes, they trash the finances and budget so one CAN'T give them the little considerations due them..

maybe sometimes they are just not "happy"..

I think a man who finds a woman like that should run in the other direction and never look back. Many men think they are responsible to make a woman happy. Men should find a woman who is already happy. If somoene puts that kind of burden on another or on themself, it is a disaster waiting to happen.

Men need to learn to find the red flags too because there are as many emotional shipwrecks called women as there are clueless men.

By the way, I am not saying all men are clueless. My husband isn't. ;)

Dot,

Your friend who had the affair with the sociopath should be thankful she found out BEFORE she got too involved. It would really suck if he didn't kick her to the curb and kept her going, and then she married him. I think sometimes God saves us from ourselves.

I feel that way about a lot of my relationships. There was one guy at HQ that I was totally in love with. Looking back, it was a very immature love. At that time, I would have given ANYTHING to marry him. Thank God it never worked out that way. I know God protected me from myself. I was at a very vulnerable time and liked the attention he gave me. He was flirty and easy to be around. We had MAJOR chemistry. Even other people had HQ saw the chemistry. It horrifies me to even imagine if I had married him. He's still in TWI, and he buys it all hook, line, and sinker. He was so good at quoting all of the crap he was taught in the Corps. He boasted his memory of what he was taught. But he failed to practice it. He hurt a lot of girls at HQ because he was flirty with all of them. He dated a lot of them. He had no intentions with any of them. Having so many dates and women who were willing to chase after him inflated his ego. I didn't see it at the time because I was competing so hard to win him for myself. Gawd! It even makes me sick thinking back to that time. His need for attention to inflate his ego is not a safe kind of person to allow in your heart.

Anyone who wants to get involved in a relationship needs to step back and ask themselves if somone truly deserves what they have to give. If you are considering someone to have in your life, you need to see that person in public, around their family, and around their close friends. You will see what they are REALLy like.

"They try you get you to belive that they can make you better through aduiting that is taliking throught. or throught an e-meter a measuring device,"

nyunknown, could you explain? I think there are some typos in this sentence, and I'm not clear what you meant. Thanks.

The video I was speaking of is a video of a large Scientologist meeting with Tom Cruise speaking. When the video was leaked, it was taken off the internet quickly by the main Scientologist organization. Sound familiar? How about when anyone posts TWI's music videos? Someone must be keeping TWI's IT department busy.....Wayfer abundant sharing at work.

I saw several links by googling Noah's name. I think the spelling is Lottick. I didn't click on any links because I am at work. If anyone else wants to google and post interesting links, that would be great.

If considering marriage to someone who'd been married before and divorced, it might be helpful know why the previous mariage broke down, and what the potential new partner had learned from that (= would do differently now). If they blamed the other party completely and took no responsibility, it'd red-flag for me that they weren't quite ready for another marriage.

This is sooooo true!!

While internet dating, I ran in to a lot of men who said "I don't know; she just left me." when I asked them why they were divorced. If someone is clueless about a divorce, they will be continue to be clueless on how to be your partner. It doesn't make them a bad person. It just means they aren't ready for a relationship.

Women don't just pick up and leave for no reason. Men don't cheat for no reason. If the marriage realtionship is fulfilling, it lasts. If a spouse isn't fulfilled, the other should know. There are all kinds of signs. Some are legitimate, and some are not. Some problems are dealbreakers: addiction, abuse, adultery. There are always signs before a major blowout in a relationship.

Will Smith said that life is not a straight line from birth to death. He said it's a circle which leads to rebirth. Those who haven't found rebirth (I'm not talking about being born again) still have a lot to find out. Some of finding out about life is finding out about YOURSELF and not accepting shortcomings as "oh well, that's the way I am."

I had a boyfriend once who was a complete @$$hole. When he was pi$$ed at me, only the worst filth came out of his mouth. I came to a realization that I didn't like him as a friend, so why would I want to even be his girlfriend or potential wife? I told him that. He said "I know; I need to change that about myself." I didn't hang around long enough to find out, but I would bet my life savings that he's still the same biased jack@$$ who sees evil in everyone except himself.

People can make all kinds of excuses about why their relationships didn't work, and those excuses don't show them doing anything wrong. YOU ARE STILL CLUELESS!!! It always takes two to mess up a relationship. My first husband was a drug addict, and it would be very easy to portray him as the only villain in our marriage. He wasn't. I owned up to my faults in that marriage. I also saw signs of drug abuse before I married him. I should have paid attention to the signs.

Of course, there are exceptions to every situation, but not that many in this category of life.

If you want a short way to figure out your love language, here's the online test from the book. Answer it honestly even if you think "That's shallow or selfish".

http://www.afo.net/hftw-lovetest.asp

As a person who has seen marriage done wrong via my parents and myself, I can have empathy for a lot of situations. I think more emphasis needs to be made on vulnerability here. If a person is married and not getting their needs met at home, they need to work on that situation and that one only. If that marriage is beyond repairable, well each person will either continue to live in it or move on.

When a person moves on, they HAVE to take everything they've learned from the broken relationship (even if the spouse was psychotic). What attracted them to that person? You should NEVER agree to be part of a relationship just because someone is pursuing you like white on rice. That is a HUGE red flag. Some people are flattered by this, and they really have to sit back and ask WHY to themselves. Just because someone is attracted to you doesn't mean it is meant to be or that you have to take them up on it.

A lot of women are notorious for accepting these types of situations because they want attention. They get what they want and then wonder what happened. Stop thinking what happened. Start thinking why you have been with the men you have. If you don't, you will make the same mistakes over and over. As a famous poster here says: "The lessons are repeated until they are learned." I believe that 100%.

I was in many crappy relationships after my hideous marriage. I started looking at me. Sure a lot of those crappy relationships were in the cult, but I still had unhealthy relationships because I liked the attention.

I decided I would rather be alone even if it meant forever and love myself than to live in another crappy relationship. There were many hard moments to face. I had to admit things about myself that I didn't want to.

If you are a man who has had a wife leave you because she said you weren't giving her any attention, then wise up buddy! You heard the reason, and you refused to accept your responsibility in the problem. Many men in this situation still are clueless. You can't be clueless and expect to keep a woman.

I don't know how many men I met while internet dating who said their wives/girlfriends cheated on them. These were the clueless ones. The cheating was the only point they wanted to remember because it released them from responsibility in their minds. Those men need to ask themselvesl "What made her leave me?" You can't get what you want, and then neglect it after you have it.

There are always patterns and signs in life. We just need to learn to recognize them to keep from making repeated mistakes.

The Five Love Languages is an excellent book to learn what kind of love language your significant other speaks. Then you need to learn to speak their love langugage, and they your's.

If you had seen any of the exposed video coverage of Tom Cruise speaking at one of their big meetings, you would have seen him raising his arm up yelling "LRH!!!" I thought that was kind of weird in a nazi kind of way.

It definitely is not and was not a household. When I was on Staff, there were many times I felt lonely. I would be stuck at HQ during Christmas because I couldn't take vacation to go home. You would have thought that all the people who enjoyed my FREE baby-sitting services during the year would have invited me to their home to hang out, play games, etc. I never once received such an invitation.

I always felt I was giving and never receiving. My glass became empty. I decided to stop the FREE baby-sitting. I would tell them all I had other plans, and it was true. I decided I would at least get out somewhere on weekends. Then I got a note from one lady who said, "I thought maybe you didn't like us anymore since you don't want to come over." I was never invited as a friend, only to baby-sit. I felt pretty used while at HQ. I didn't give to receive, but I am surprised at how much self-centeredness I experienced there.

I would ask a very simple question and let them elaborate as much as they decide. Then I would wait to see if there was an opportunity to ask another question. The question could be as simple as "Do you still go to fellowship?" This could be a yes or no answer, or it could be elaborated upon.

PMosh, don't you think it's time they recognize you as the grown man you are who seems to be pretty successful in his own family? I know it's hard to come out of being the kid. I think my dad still struggles with the fact this his older kids are 40-something and have been out of his house for decades.

I got this recipe from the Pampered Chef "It's Good for You" cook book. I made this salad tonight, and I LOVED it! I know it's crappy weather all over the country, but you still need your vegetables. This salad MAKES you want to eat them.

Dressing:

3 T Apricot Preserves

2 T Apple Cider Vinegar

2t olive oil

2 t sugar (I used 2 packets of Splenda to cut the sugar)

1/4 t salt

1/8 t ground black pepper

Salad

8 ounces turkey. I bought an already roasted turkey breast.

1/2 diced red bell pepper. I added yellow ones too because they are sweeter.

1 mango cut in to 1/2 inch cubes

2 hard-cooked egg whites, coursely chopped

1/4 small red onion sliced thin (I used less)

1 package baby spinach leaves

1/4 c sliced almonds

Mix up the dressing and refrigerate, then cut all the veggies and turkey and mix together in a bowl. I let individuals add their own amount of dressing. I usually am not too crazy about spinach because it always tastes too earthy, but the focus on this salad was the turkey and mango....mmmm!! I think I will figure out a turkey salad with those two items in it.

We are getting snow in Northern Arizona tonight, but this was still a welcomed dinner. Now I'm gonna drink some hot herbal tea.

LCM ranted a lot about grammar, spelling, etc. Yet he was not as educated in the English language as he should have been. I knew many who wrote him notes and received them back with his marks correcting their grammar and spelling.

When we typed quotes for the staff newsletter, we were constantly discussing if we needed to change his incorrect grammar. Do they change a quote so the MOG doesn't look like the uneducated indiot he was? A classic example of he use of words is he would start a sentence with an objective form instead of a subejctive form i.e.: "Us leaders need to be examples."

I hated the discussions about this kind of crap. Only in Way World would this be an issue like it was. I never worked in such an anal-retentive place.

Printing Services was completely the opposite. I couldn't believe the amount of screwing off there was in that department with a cabinet overseer who had blind eyes.

This is the place from which God's Word eminates?? This is the place with the BEST workers in the world or the BEST of everything in any category? I look back at how TWI promoted itself as THE BEST in so much. I hardly think it to be the case.

Call me stupid, but I don't hear the similarity.

I wasn't privileged to transcribe Corps Night because I wasn't Corps. Looking back, that was ahuge blessing and God spared me. We had WC in the office who were the only ones who could transcribe WC related items. I did more than my share of STS, and we trasncribed word-for-word, even cuss words. They would usually get edited out by Way Pub for whatever purpose they were using them for.

I am mad at myself that I kept reproving myself aobut my attitude when I didn't want to work so hard for so little money. I bought in to the whole thing that God would bless me double for my service. I never saw it. Of couse, they would say my believing wasn't there. Honestly the way I see it today, I allowed myself to be used just like everyone else at HQ. Your most inner self doesn't like that, but the cult mentality didn't let you think in a common sense manner. I constantly told myself I needed to renew my mind.....NO MORE!!! Nobody will F**K me over again.

Sometimes I leave typos in my posts. Then I think about N*ancy H*arne. She would cringe..... She's a wonderful person, but she's blinded.

Notta, I gotta ask,

What in the world would take 300 hours of typing a week?

Any and almost every letter (except ones from LCLM because he had his own secretary do them) from every department there. There was a lot of work from The Trunk Office and Way Publications. Other work included transcribing word-for-word Sunday Teaching Services and Corps Meetings.

By the way, LCM almost never wrote any article in The Way Mag. They were all rehashed teachings from Sunday Teaching Services. President's Publications would get the transcriptions and started marking them up to form it in to a magazine article. The whole time I thought Craig was hella busy with all he did....boy was I fooled.

He talked a lot a lunch about we shouldn't think evil if we see people walking around headquarters or if we see them in the middle of the day because we all have our times to take care of business. Somehow, it took an act of congress for me to get time off for an eye doctor appointment. Craig also talked a lot about how he liked to play golf, and he justified it to us all by saying that he got up at 5 a.m. to study the Word. I guess because his day started early, it ended early so he could get in something he liked to do. I never had that option when I worked there. I bet he doesn't golf on Home Depot wages these days (if he's still working there).

I read some of this stuff, and I think back to a time on my WOW year in 1984-85 in Midland, Texas. I was in the Burger King drive-thru, and this lady in the car behind me comes up to me because I way a Way sticker on my bumper. I rolled down the window, and she was soooo excited to see me!! She kept saying "That's my ministry, but my husband won't let me go!!" I thought she was crazy, but I still invited her to twig. She said she couldn't, but wanted me to know that was her ministry.

It amazes me the mojo hold the ministry and all the crap we were taught had a hold on so many for so long. We were so indoctrinated. At my first twig, the TC's wife used to talk about how much she loved the Word. I was new, and I thought she was nuts. I thought "Who LOVES the Bible?? It's boring!!" Later on in my WOW year, my opinion changed because of the amount of classes I sat in. Class after class after class is a great way to indoctrinate people. For me, I guess it was because it might have been the first time the Bible made sense to me. Different people were convinced by different reasons. I just remember liking how Biblical smart I felt. It was stupid arrogance.

Are there really 320 people on staff at HQ?

How do you know that?

Whatever do they all do?

I worked in Weird Processing for 3 years. There was a dept coordinator, a proofreader, and 5 full-time women who typed 12 houars a day and one part-time mom who worked 20 hours a week maybe. I hated that job, but it was better than working in Food Services.

I also worked 2 years in printing services. We had a department coordintaor, 2 secretaries, 1 typographer, 3 full-time graphic artists, one part-time graphic artist, one proof maker (the one who makes the picture of the graphic design to use with the printer, one printer, and 2 people in finishing.

I saw a lot of horsing around in printing services. It was ridiculous that we had to work 50+ hours a week. I don't get it. They put a demand on all departments to work that much because the Ground department did. I'm wondering why they didn't hire more people to work in grounds?? It's not like they paid much.

I was paid about $648 a month. My housing, food and electricity was provided. It sucked to be poor. I was so in debt while on Staff. I wonder now how many others were. I lived on my credit card to make up the difference of my needs because I was afraid to ask for more money.

When LCM made us take a 10% pay cut, they re-evaluated our pay about 3 years later. This was when Br*d Th*orpe had left and B*ll C*yle took over HR. Because BC was new at his job, they had Lou*e L*nd sit in on the meetings. LL obviously had an agenda, which I'm sure was mandated from the higher ups. They asked us to fill out a sheet requesting what we needed. I filled it out honestly, not asking for a penny more than I needed. I underestimated really. I was told No. I didnt' even end up getting my original 10% from the cut back.

All of that crap that we had to believe God to meet our needs was pure unadulterated B***S***T!!!! There was no room for God in TWI. We were too busy playing Him ourself.

Gosh, I hope nobody took this seriously, that TWI was teaching diplomats :blink: Hope the link that I included Since they no longer hold RoA, do you suppose they still have all that stuff in the warehouse, the chicken frying machine and all the other RoA stuff?

That could be a new job/reassignment. Selling all that off.

Anyone know if The Way Woods were grown as a forestry venture? Or are they just nice trees?

They sold or gave most of that stuff away some time around 1997 or 1998. What they couldn't sell, they gave away. LCM patted his own back real hard for donating their old cots to a local organization.

As I recall when I was in TWI tehy did not teach it was okay to have sex outside of marriage.. at the class and twig level ..

I believe what was taught or understood was that if you were "Spiritually Mature" you could handle it.. but the rest of us were not supposedly able..and I am pretty sure this was what was taught at the corps level because that is who I heard it from was Corps.

The room mate may be totally buying into the I am spiritualy Mature and there are no laws of God that I need to follow.

It's funny how different things were depending on the leader$h*t. There was a wife of a BC who said to go get laid even if it was an unbeliever because they couldn't have people walking around tight-a$$ed and legalistic.

yeah the lease is in both our names. i don't know. I don't feel like i need to move out. she isn't like pressuring me to go or anything. and I really have no fear whatsoever that the way is going to suck me in or i will feel the need to take classes.

i am very firm in my faith, even more so reading everything about the way and finding verses and explanations that debunk their beliefs on my own. it really has strengthened my faith emmensely.

I am going to confront her about the guys and just tell her that I feel convicted and that as christian girls I don't think we should have guys sleeping over.

If it gets too crazy then I will find a way to leave. But for now I will just continue being her friend. and I will probably not go to one of her fellowships. thanks for all the advice guys. you really have helped me out in so many ways and I couldn't be more thankful!!! LOVE!

If you get flack from her about the guys sleepign over, go to fellowship. Tell her fellowship coordinator you dont' think it's right for her to be sleeping with guys at your apartment and that you don't think it's a good example of what she's trying to portray. Then let her deal with the aftermath of it. I do believe TWI is now teaching that sex before marriage is not OK. Of course, they can say that because it makes them appear to not be hypocrital. Most probably practice something else.

unfortunatley, our lease still has 6 months left so i cannot move out even if i wanted to. but I do think God has placed me here for a reason, and I just have to keep loving her and praying for her.

cults are annoying.

Sure you can move. She can have her beloved believers come and live with her.

This girl is a perfect example of the jaded hypotics wayfers are. I know because I was saying the same crap myself. But I learned better. Whatever you do, don't go to fellowship. They will suck you in and pressure you to take the class.

The Way does not have the spearhead of truth. Nobody does. It takes wayfers awhile to get comfortable with that and be OK with it. Arrogance never allows humility. If somone claims to be Christian, then they need to exemplify humility.

Sex with every Tom, Dick, and Harry shows a great example....sheesh! If you confront her aobut her sexcapades, she will throw the legalism talk in your face.

I would move now!!