imbus

AMAN! Again, I SAY...AMEN! :D-->

Goey,

I precieve you have had some negitive experiances with AAover the years. I'm sorry for that. My experiance has been quiet the opposite. The group I attend is so heartfilled with accetptance and support you walk out of a meeting, you know you are not alone and something was added to your life.

I recognize that not all folks that are sober and attent AA...are amotionally healthy. My sponcer said once that taking inventory of others is not our buisness if you're fault finding BUT you better take good inventory if you want to establish healty relations. Don't get to tangled up with folks who don't want change.. Those you can spot a mile away because they keep recreating their own chaos. Good advice.

I also know that there are folks that live the big book like it was their Bible. Some exhibit good character while others are control freaks.

All in all in every organization you will have folks who are not perfect and all those imperfections spill out at meetings. I find that if you stay on task with the 12 traditions and have strong adherance to not go beyound the 12 step program (into the "psyco stuff") then you have a meeting worth attending. I attend such a meeting.

If it had not been for AA I would not be posting here at this site. It allowed me the time and support I needed to work through my feelings about "my higher power" without critisim and I grew in courage to take the next step. That next step is part of my journey with GS.

So having said all that "Easy does it". :)-->

Thanks ya'll for bring back to my memeory the music. When you listen from the heart it's a special moment of connectedness to somthing so dear. Brief or long lasting sunesis of words put to music, that inspire to the deapest part of your being. I had forgotten those watering moments when I was so thirsty for love and understanding. Those songs seemed to satisfy the simpelist and/or greatest of needs. What pleasent warm memories.

"Stairway to Heaven" by Led Zepplin. Oppps... wrong Thread! Well...It had heaven in it, does that count? :D-->

I know! Do you think that Loy was a lesbian want to be? I'v seen it on Jerry Springer. A male, who was a women lesbian. Just joking. I guess it was his FEAR of what he could not control or understand. hhuuuummmmm.

I do feel said for folks who do have a personia cross gender switch.

For me..." Love lifed me". I know it is not a Way original but I still sing that on occassion.

Goey,

Bet you have never woke up somewhere, after a good binge on alcohol and wonder how you got there. I bet you have never gone to jail for a DWI and know the next time you drive and drink you are put away for a long time. I'v bet you have never been so needy for a shot that you wold lie, cheat and steal for it. I bet you never been in the position of trying to stop drinking but can't.

I find that the majority of folks who are alcoholics and go to AA, have had some spiritual abused and/or have had no relationship with God at all. They have found a place of total acceptance. To feel,grow and be supported. Unlike many religions, no one is lorded over or shamed.

The out come is a lifestyle of sobrity and hope when they do the 12 steps. How many belief systems have that to there credit? So I guess if any thing that sounds a little like AA... has got be be good. It has a better track record.

I'm glad my spirituality is not contingent on other folks opinion of it. I'd be dummer than Sh@t to let that happen again and you would be my Man-God. Sound fomilure?

My tomarrow God is a present day reality to me.

Thanks for the post. :)-->

Twi saved my life. It almost damn near distroyed me too.

After I left, on occassion I cried uncontrolably, in a fetal position on the floor. That usually happened in the safty of my own home and it was at the drop of a hat. That was grief at its finest.

Since then I have sought counceling and GS has been a God send. GS has done for me what a therapist in many respects could not do. So welcome to GS. .

Dear sweet Wayfer...NOT!

After spending the majority of my youth/adult life in cults, TWI was not my first but my last, I'v had to simplify my spiritual walk. Because of the many levels of abuse with the bible, I'v had to ask my higher power (God) to communicate to me in a language that is not "Bible". I worked on what was athentic spiritually to me and what was not. That means I had to strip down to what I truly knew, not what I wished, was told was, and pushed my mind to belive. What I truly understood about God was establihed when I was a child with no outside influences. (It is an unspoken knowing that can't be put into words.)

Now that I am connected to that again, I communicate to My higher power in a way that is non triggering to me. I believe the word "God" is a trigger word for me and have found that this word is limiting to what I know.

Since my higher power knows no limits and cannot be contained, I throw my inner most desires and prayers out to "the universe" and allow for a two way openess to happen and what will be...Will Be!

I know that this sounds New Age but it is what works for me. I have not read this in a book so it is what resinates with my core self in connection with (the nameless one).

What is crutial to spiritual recovery is having your personia healed. Without your self-esteme in tact you will not venture into the unknown of who and what is God to you. You will be to frightened to. So spend some time taking care of yourself and allow God to make known her/him self to you. Enjoy the journey. :D-->

P.S I already know that my God has my best intrest in mine so whats to believe for? For God to act? I just need to live my athentic self and spirituality will happen.

Remember when Claudett R@yal would sing "I'v been born again"? Something about sitting at a busstop at 6am. and it was raining. Well remember the part where she somehow grawls her vioce? I always thought she was cleaning out her lungs. :D-->

But I did love when she sang "Preciuos Lord". That gave me a chill.

I know longer accept the Bible as "the only referance point for truth". Because of this I can embrace Jesus Christ on a deeper level emotionally and spiritually. TWI did me a favor by pushing me to look beyond Christianity for truth.

One thing to consider in our understanding of Jesus Christ is the jewish tradition called "midrash". It would behove every Christian who embrases the Jedeao-Christian Bible to learn of this style of writing. After all wern't the folks who quilled the gosples...jewish. Just some food for thought. :)-->

HO HO Relo, Burn the Chaft day, Happy Household Holidays. As if American history had no significancy. Only these days where honored.

I've got peace like a river, Joy like a fountain, Love for my savior in my soul...

Every time I would hear that song, it reminded me fo "100 bottles of beer on the wall." :)-->

Thanks TH. ;)-->

I don't believe in the tithe as written in the Bible. I live Karma. What goes around comes around. I do however give $ money to the Church I frequent. Their outreach to the Poor, Aides patients, food drives, support groups...community sevices etc... speaks volumes to where the $ goes and I want to do my part to service the community.

"You tell me what you think about Jesus Christ and I'll tell you how far you will go spiritually." I guess VPW didn't think to much of the Jesus in the gosples. His life style I mean. If he had I guess we wouldn't have this Web site.

SIT MUCH. Don't use your mind because it would be harder for TWI to control.

Rock of Ages. What the H@ll is that suppose to mean for a gathering of folks? Isn't it said that J.C is the Rock Of all Ages?

ABS? I never had enough $ to count as abundence. So how can I share of what is not abundent? Whats up with that?

I'v got the movie theme. "The Empire Srikes Back" ( Waydale and GS strike back)

The Evil Emperor-VPW

Darth Vader-LCM

Rosie-Jabba the Hut

Donna- The goatheaded dancer that was at the end of Jabbas chain.

HA- The general who was constucting the "Death Star" the actors last name is Rothbone I think.

CPO-Pawtucket

R2D2-(?) Jim Miller

Luke Skywalker- Ralph Duoboski at first then... Then every male that walked away and spoke up against TWI.

Princess Leah- Every female that walked away from TWI and is on there athentic journey to be there own hero.

Chewbacca- Im at a loss. You fill in the blank.

Hans Solo-Fill in the blank here too.

Nothing is sacred except "the word."

------------------------------------------------

My core self was open for denile, treated with disregard, labled "the flesh" and had no place in my life. Not sacred enough.

Marrige vows. Throw them away at the drop of a hat for leadership. They must be right and commitment wrong. Not sacred enough.

Sacrfice of family, funds, friends because relationships to all where not sacred enough.

Believing equals recieving. God was at my becon call d@mit because I believed. And he had best perform.

Speaking of third aid. I went to ADV CL "79" and scratched the cornea's of both my eyes. I had worn my hard lenses for to long and was blinded. I had forgotten to bring glasses and spent the whole week legally blind. :(--> I told no one of my delima because I knew I would not be instantaneous healed. I could not focus spiritually to believe. no pun intended) The pain was so severe my eyes would tear for hours.

I remember how it was frowned apon to go to Third Aid and I just did not want to be humilated. I'm glad I grew. :D-->up.

Thanks so much for your imput. Uncle harry your psychological analysis of who, why and how can be pondered for days. Shanzdancer your perception and insite speaks to my soul. MJ412 your lifes experiances speak loudly. Mr.D it is that simple. Bramble... words of widom. Waybackinthe70s, wonderful observation. Johniam thank for sharing your truth. Wayward wayfer you make a good point.

I know I had tremendous fear before TWI and I seemed to evolve confidently in a good direction till I got in the WC. I gave up so much of my power because I believed "they" were more spiritual than I.

Because of fear I believed I did not love, give ,serve enough. Because if I loved more I woun't have all this fear. What a vicious cycle.

I also understand from the very first twig mtng. I was not encouraged to think for myself. READ THE BOOK, take a class, abs. There was no cognitive dialog outside of its own system. So recognizing fear was not humanly recognizable or addresses. It was spiritualized(of the diablos) and disguised. What a mess.

Thanks you'al! :D-->

OH, if you know of any other modes outside of the bible, other then the obvious(intimidation) please speak your peace. Might add how it effected you as an example. Thanks, :D-->

:(-->,

Besides the instilled caution of the unknown, set at birth, what has been TWI method of instilling fear in its particapants. I figure to understand the origin biblically it might help to dislodge some of the inate conditioning I have noticed in my life.

The yelling and intimadation tactics go without saying but what where the scriptures used to insure fear?