imbus

Raf, Insurgent, Houseisrockin,Tom Strange, DMiller...Thank you so much for your gallent hearts and knowledge of the Bible.

Having been "the women" in this situation I applaud your stance. The issue is not adultry but abuse of power.

For myself again it was about not trusting my inner core self and giving up my power to the "spiritual ones". It took years of indoctrination to bring me to that compromising place. In my mind I was blessing God because I blessed his leadership. (I could puke now.)

Gentlemen you are welcomed at my house any time.

Your love for God speaks loudly to somone (me) who doesn't quite trust Christianity anymore. I'v read and seen to much oppression of women via this belief system and it's in the name of God. BULLSHIF!!! The Jesus I know would be far removed from the way some folks talk and feel about women.

Dinner is at 7PM, come on over, and bring some wine.

Waterbuffalo... wonderful imput.

Sunese... good insight.

TL... your so right,Twi was a breading ground for Codependency.

I think we'll all be suprised as to what was important to the Creator GOD. Compassion, Mercy, Grace and Forgivness might be at the top. Who you sleep with at night or laugh with in the mornig will probly be at the bottom. MHO

Haven't read all the thread on this...but I can amagin.

My imput is to read "LIVING IN SIN" by John Sheby Spong.

He addresses such issues as Devorice, Marrige, Pre-marital Sex, Homosexuality, Male and Female roles from a historical and biblical point of view. It is a masterpeice of research work and is a quick read.

I know for myself the most powerful prayer I can pray to start my day is the Serenity Prayer.

God, grant me the serenity to acceept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And the wisdom to know the difference.

Wisdom to know the difference,that's a good one.

Healthy Neutrality comes to mind when I think of my codependency. Being neutral in all things and not allowing myself to get hooked into others drama or chaos amotionally.

I believe your right about bonding to a father figure(V.P) in the WC. It was recycling what we experianced as children. For those of you who did not come out of TWI or the WC with Codependency...LUCKY YOU!

On another thread Ala brought up co-dependency as part of the mind set of individuals who were ripe for following irrational teachings and directives.

Definition of a codependent is as follows: "A codependent person is one who has let another person's behavior affect him or her, and who is obessed with controlling that person's behavior." Melody Beattie

I realize this is a simplistic definition but is as deep as an ocean.

Here are some characteristics of a codependent.

1.Think and feel responsible for other people- for others people's feelings, thoughts, actions, choices, wants, needs, well-being, lack of well-being and ultimate destiny.

2. Push thoughts and feelings out of their awareness because of fear and guilt.

3. Feel teribly anxious about other peoples problems.

4. Blame themselves for everything.

5. Never find answers.

6. Have been victims of sexual, phisical,emotional abuse, neglect, abandonment, or alcoholism.

7. Feel alot of guilt.

8. Became afraid to let other people be who they are and allow event to happen naturally.

9. Stau busy so they don't have to think about things.

10. Get confuse.

11.Don't feel happy, content, or peaceful with themselve.

13. Latch onto whoever or whatever they think can provide happiness.

14. Center their lives around people.

15. Lose intrest in there own lives when they love.

16. Let others hurt them.

17. Wonder why they hurt so badly.

18. Have sex when they don't want to.

19. Withdraw emothonally from there partner.

20. Have weak boundries.

This is just a list of 20. There is about 150 charactristics codependents tend to be.

When I was with TWI I lived all these and more. It has taken years to change some of these behaviors.

Some of the teachings that incited codependent behavior was # 1, at the top of the list. We are Gods hands and feet and that God has no one else to walk among the almost dead. How overwelming a"truth".

AS for me I latched onto The Way... anyone else?

Al a,

Thought I'd start a new thread on co-dependency and TWI. Thank you for the inspiration. Boy does this stuff drum up for me, my state of being prior to TWI and solitified it while with TWI.

Thanks girl :D-->

Ala, Great insight. Things that make you go HHUMMMMMMMMM!

Raf,

I have looked for that book for years. Thanks for finding them.

Vickles,

It takes a conscientious effort of my mind not to rescue folks. I like helping people and in doing so at times, at a high cost. So I'v learned to set limits.Tor me I abide by certain rules.

If I don't have money to lend or give...Don't

If I don't have the time to spend...Don't

If I do anything out of guilt...Don't

It is very hard for me to stay out of Gods buisness. We were taught that we are Gods hands and feet. I believe that in part but not to the extent TWI taught it. We were also taught to live and give without any since of self-preservation. That is unhealth and not Godly at all.

So with me I have to watch myself...being the softhearted one, taking on other peoples problems because that is what I'v been trained to do. We were trained to rescue and resolve peoples problems with PFAL. IMO

Hope this helps.

The best research book that I have enjoyed for decades is "A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament" by E.W Bullinger.

You can no longer get this book for it is out of print. TWI use to sell it and I grabed one. If you can find one,it is a keeper. It makes word studies a snap.

A la,

I like Carl Jung. Great Quote!

Lighthouse,

Thankyou for leaving TWI. Sorry this was said about your family. Your always welcome at GS.

The big picture is always hard to come by when you have limited knowledge. That is what GS is for. To hear others views, right or wrong, good ,bad or indifferent! After 5 months of posting here I am starting to feel normal again.

My ? is: Why has TWI ignored other research material done by very knowledgable men and women?

Why have they not embraced the academic community, the scholars, and all who could shed a bit of light on any given subject?

"Why is the Dead Sea so Dead? Because it only has an inlet and no outlet".

No truer words could be said as to what TWI has done to itself. A closed system that is so self absorbed, no outside challange or accountability and has no outlet for which to grow. Just a matter of time and it will be like the DEAD SEA.

wwooowwww dudes, That some potent mind altering trash. I'm glad I left in '89'. Talk about "cult"... that is a good definition of it.

Sorry about posting the whole post of OM. Don't know how to clip and paste just yet.

Om acknowledges and recognizes that V.P had a dark side.

With that acknowledgment I am more apt to consider his opinion. Before he sounded like a delusional Nut who was waiting for "THE RETURN"...of V.P.(figuratively)

/

quote:

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Originally posted by oldiesman:he didn't earn it, so be it.

Have you thought about or do you realize that the difference between a state accredited institution, and a non-accredited institution, may have nothing to do with the actual workload or curriculum, but may be something as simple as a few thousand dollars paid to the state, to get the license?

Still, since Victor Paul was either too lazy, distracted, or poor to go to a state accredited institution, your contention that his doctorate isn't valid has merit.

quote:

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Do you really think he came up with that class? Are was it taken from someone else? Do you really think he wrote those books?

---

If you're referring to PFAL, I believe God worked in him to adapt it from the various teachings he learned from other men of God scattered across the continent, coupled with what he himself learned from his own study. Was it God Breathed? no. Did he get it by revelation? no. Doesn't make it any less godly, though.

quote:

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Tell me what you really think he was?

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Just summarizing:

His godly side: He was a Christian with a tremendous ability to teach God's Word and convey upon the listeners, respect for the written word. His dark side: he engaged in sexual harassment and adultery, plagiarism, drinking/smoking; at various times with a mean and condescending demeanor.

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Ladies,

I support you and you are right on the money. Speaking from your experiance says alot.

Please remember, Om's word or opinion is not written in gold nor on Tablets. This is one mans perspective and does NOT hold the opinion of the rest of the Body of Christ. I believe your brothers here are supportive AND protective.

" A MAN CONVIENCED AGAINST HIS WILL, IS OF THE SAME OPINION STILL".

He may never change his opinion, that is his right. But ladies don't let that stop you from being validated in your own truth.

I think when a male critisizes us it touches a nerve. It brings back to us the "critical Parenting" we grew up with and you run the cycle of shame all over again.

Recognize that he is just a man, not your father, not Jesus Christ,not the MOG, not anything more.

I think he is a little Autocratic(ME MAN,you women) he is vertually harmless.

If this helps...When he post... Think of him standing 4ft.11 and having a tiny winkie. If that mind picture doesn't do it for you...try to amagin him bald, rotting teeth and a huge beer belly. BURP, Get the picture? This might help with possible "trauma maleness"

OM, Hope I didn't offend you ...just wanted to help my sisters get past the Male mistique. :D-->

You stinker! ;)-->

Ex,

Powerful...simply powerful. THANK YOU! :D-->

Garth ,

Well said! Good stuff and logic!

To funny.

You all are making me hungry...stop that.

Tom, I'll have you know my stuff don't stink. Soooo there!

There is a Public Trust that is given exclusivly to those who serve the public, professionals in positions of caretaking our Society. Those professional are Phisicans..Politicans..School Teachers..Therapist..Clergy..Nurses..Nursing home staff..Pschyitrist..Residential staff..Lawyers..Law Enforcement..Social Workers... the list goes on.

When that trust has been violated or abused for personal gain, then public trust can not be.

There is a moral obligation that these professionals are subject to regardless of the come ons from there clients. It is a Social Trust and expectation. These professionals are held to a higher standard. WHY? WHY? WHY?

1. Because of the position and power they are granted by or Society. In that... to do no harm.

2. Because of the vulnerablity of the individuals that seek there sevices.

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Now in the case of Clergy, the expectations are the same although the Legal consquences are not. IF a Therapist abused his/her powers with a client, there is a legal recourse. For Clergy there is not. Only a inhouse discipline except in the case of rape.

When the repitition of sexual misconduct occures, with no legal recourse,you have sexual anarchy. Although the terrany is not violent in nature, it does hold captive the minds of the vulnerable in many seductve ways. READ: "The Betrayal Bond" Breaking Free of Exploitive Relationships. by Patrick Carnes.

Since whe're not focusing on the Psychological views, but Biblical... The Bible really has no relevance here. We know what the bible say abot Adultry. We also know what Accountability God holds to MOG. What we are not doing is looking into the mental processes of both victim and perpatrator.

I know of one individual who more than likly seduced the MOG. The other came back shame faced and wanting to crawl out of her skin. WHY? WHY? WHY? What was going on the Pschy of these individual to over ride better judgement? Both men and women a like. I posted my mental processing in another post.

The Black and White interpretaion of the Bible does nothing to help the individuals involved. The MOG or these women. What does help is supportive dose of understanding and therapy to change the behaviors and perseption of self.

well... That is my opinion... for what it is worth.