WhiteDove

Nothing to interpet I can read what you stated.

I read what you said I know these people, including Dot. Quit labeling them bipolar, you don't know what you are speaking of. She never labled these people including Dot as bi-Polar she presented a list of people she felt for whatever reason were Bi-polar, I don't know if that list is right or wrong but I do know that Dot was not on the list she presented as you implied.

WD said: QUOTE(WhiteDove @ Jul 12 2008, 12:18 PM) Exactly Jeff you spoke your opinion I'm fine with that. On the other hand had you said Dr. Wierwille was a scumbag that would be a statement of fact and I would expect you to offer some proof for your claim or admission that it was simply a misstated opinion. I said: QUOTE(doojable @ Jul 12 2008, 12:42 PM) Another logical glitch. You're taking a statement of opinion and then trying to say it's a statement of guilt, then you're working on that statement of guilt being wrong and treating real life like it's on long legal battle. (That I believe is a strawman argument - somebody correct me if I"m wrong.) Let's take Tricky vic out of the example. Let's say I'm talkng to A (fictional person) and I say, "B is a real scumbag. He tried to kiss me when my boyfriend wasn't looking. I turned my face and just walked out. I'll never be in the same room with him again." Now - that's my first hand "testimony" if you will. There is no physical evidence, because I didn't say that I slapped his face or tried to knee him in the.... If you go and ask B about the incident, there's no guarantee that he will be honest. In my statement, B is a real scumbag..." I stated my opinion of B based on my experience with him. He wasn't accused of a crime. What kind of proof would you want? A is free to accept what I say or not - but to say that I'd have to get a court finding to state my opinion is absolutely not right - I can't even see how it would work in the real world. Then WD said: QUOTE(WhiteDove @ Jul 12 2008, 01:35 PM) Accusation of a serious crime is different than a insult like scumbag You got a little mixed up there. Lost your place in your thought processes, didn't you? It seems you can't even get YOU to agree with YOU. I think that's what happens when you keep running in the same rut over and over without ever considering any other POV or any other solution. Not at all Jeffs statement was an opinion he did not state it as a fact he qualified it with I think not he was he stated his opinion ,Fine with me he did not try to pass his opinion off as a fact. Your example involved calling some one a name as well it offered no clue that it was an opinion in fact it reads as a statement of fact B is a real scumbag. My reply Accusation of a serious crime is different than a insult like scumbag. You offered your example to somehow justify your argument of several pages prior that people were expressing their opinions. People misspeak all the time when that happens most of the time we tend to overlook that. No harm no foul so to speak so they called me a name So What? accusation of of crime however is a different level as I indicated. Another Words calling someone a dweeb, and calling someone a molester ,a rapist, a murderer would not produce the same response there for the example is lacking in comparison.

Yes I would tell them the same, in a public forum it is wrong to refer to someone as guilty of a crime unless they have been assigned such guilt by due process. Personal opinions are acceptable of course. Actually he was not A civil jury found it more likely than not that he caused the death of his wife and her friend. A criminal jury was unable to find beyond a reasonable doubt that O.J. committed first degree murder. Seen this way, there is no contradiction.

I might but then again ,I'm not asking anyone to believe me,nor will I be upset if no one does. In short here it is...... it is undocumented. I'm ok with that. Your a funny lady Miss Dot

Nice to see you Belle........ I'd offer you some peanuts to go with the drink ,but you know there are so few left we may need to keep them in the gallery. Anyway glad to see you were not lost and found your way back.

. Thanks, travel agents seem to be like dinosaurs these days, I remember when you had to go to one to get a plane ticket.

None, but the story is funny in some ways sad in others, don't know if you remember the Visa commercials where you saw people shopping and at the end of the commercial at the checkout a close up on a hand with a card in it and it would be some famous persons card. That was the concept for this shoot, all he had to do was walk through this store and throw a few things in a cart and show his card at the checkout. I think part of the problem was he was irritated to begin with or seemed so that he had to do two things in one day, this shoot and he also had a rehersal for a concert the next night. Anyway he was not pleased that he had to push a shopping cart. His comment "They want me to act like a f*c*ing homeless" mabe the food in the Limo was better than the caters ........ Some more Elton do and don'ts ( three pages) Here Aww Mike I'll be in and gone before anyone knows it .......I'll just bed down with the seagull's

Is the former football hero Orenthal James Simpson a murderer? A civil jury found it more likely than not that he caused the death of his wife and her friend. A criminal jury was unable to find beyond a reasonable doubt that O.J. committed first degree murder. Seen this way, there is no contradiction. link

Thanks Exie me too as well. I'll say again I don't doubt your story or Kris's either for that matter that was not the issue I'm sorry if you felt I was. My concern is /was with peoples rights , there are manytings in tis whole deal that will never be fair I know that. But I have seen the result when people have their right to due process negated it is not a road that I wish to see us go down. It was dylan that provided the momentum to get Rubin Carter free from those years spentin prison for a crime many conclude he never did despite eye witness testimony. Now the other I don't know that's a tall order maybe some backstage tickets to the show in NJ I bet he'll sing it there.

I agree the point was opinions are not facts if you are posting an opinion it is not a fact

Ooops missed the last part , well one of the things he does is run the camera dolly on the track for the shoot, but he does lighting and set work as well sometimes . They generally do comercial work but occasionally do video stuff as well. I'm hoping that Dylan will be about and not hanging out in some limo. Now Tim McGraw hung out withthe crew and ate breakfast with them at the truck ,very nice to work with as opposed to Elton John who sat in the limo and threw a fit. TUE 8/12 Brooklyn NY Prospect Park Bandshell 8:00 PM On Sale Now WED 8/13 Asbury Park NJ Asbury Park Convention Hall 8:00 PM On Sale Now

I will Exie I probably would lay some flowers from all her GreaseSpot friends there. If I get there and see Bob I'll tell him Exie says HI as well. Hey by the way the US tour starts in NY Dylan how cool is that!

Ive been around for you Ive been up and down for you But I just cant get any relief You got me stealin your love away cause you never give it Peeling the years away And we cant relive it I make you laugh And you make me cry I believe its time for me to fly "Reo SPEEDWAGON" Ok well maybe just for a little while............ I received a call last evening to fly to California next week to work on the new Dylan Video. He just finished up the European tour last night in Lisbon, Portugal, and will have a few weeks off before the US tour begins in Aug. My brother will be the key grip for the shoot and so I'd be dragging sandbags and light trusses through the desert heat nothing monumental ,but a great chance for a once in a lifetime experience to meet Dylan. Maybe have a cup of coffee at the canteen truck and discuss looking into justice's beautiful face and to see an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. Short notice so chances of getting a flight at a reasonable rate are pretty much nil, and I'd have to move some work around to do it but still, worth consideration all in all. I have no idea about the video and content only that it is a desert shoot, I'm guessing for a new CD. I think they are filming close to where my sister dove is resting if I get there I may stop there as well. The shoots are typically long days 12-14 hours so we'll see. Then again I may just expire in the desert heat, not that that would bother too many I suppose

And Paul got the oppertunity to plead against the charges against him as well So? You assume that they would convict that's a guess it may or may not be a right one. we all can speculate what may happen.

I made the statement to another poster in the context of her questions ,you took it from there and framed it in some responce about another thread Loosing the Way which is not this conversation Capeech?

You took a quote to someone else from a post to them and attributed it to some thread of yours ,not honest...... Cman you need to take some time and chill out in my opinion, I know thatyou don't value that but you are getting wound up way too tight over a discussion. Just Saying .....You can do as you see fit

Wrong I have never asked to silence any critics ,what I did say is that it is not proper to refer to one as guilty without the benefit of due process I believe that our laws support that premise despite the fact that you wish to assign guilt at will. I have repeatedly stated opinions are peoples right as well, and even complimented a poster on expressing his as such although did not necessarily agree. Your charges are without backing. And avoiding evil would assume that you have determined such evil by proper methods such as a persons rights......

Sounds like someone needs a nap and a timeout......... which ever comes first

Which had you read was exactly what I said he did .. Your Point?

That's the point where are the documentations of those deeds thatyou accuse of ? You assume the charges are true because you wish to , perhaps they don't ,when you have proof the question will be answered.

QUOTE You guys offend people with your callousness. The same could be said for you and others. I'm offended by yours as well. So do you all quit speaking as well? I've never asked for you or anyone not to speak whatever was on their mind, we can dispute it, we are all adults here are we so fragile that someone's view distresses us ? What I said was your callousness is just as offensive and others as well. I never mentioned personal insults. Your consistant claim of guilt where none is on record is offending to the rights of our country. How many times do you have to have it spelled out to you it is improper to accuse someone of a crime when none is on record as having been comitted. I never said it was a court. Well we could start with being able to post an opinion without the pack of posters misquoting every word. I like to se being able to post in concern for our basic rights being honored for all without the snipe of being called a Wierwille apologist following. They are not one in the same.

References to a person that has not been convicted of a crime as guilty are not proper manner of speech the proper term is alleged, anyone knws that slander and libel come into play when one does so. Im betting it is equally hurtful for the Wierwille family to see their dad accused without representation . Is anyone concerned with any hurt there ,Of course not because hating must prevail....... Oh and by the way who made youthe reader of my intent? wasn't it you that just pointed out to someone that they could not know your mind? Is that a one way thing it only works for you?

I have no remorse for standing up for anyone's rights afforded to them. NO one should be tried on anyone's account they have a right to due process of law before guilt is established. I seen the results of this type of justice and it is not pretty. People get out of prison after years of time every day because DNA finally proves their account against them wrong. We have a system why are you so in favor of it working on selective people, the ones you don't like get their rights voided?