WhiteDove

I thought Froggy moved to Colorado ? Here

Our two delinquents joyriding in the van a golden retriever and a pomeranian

Ready Again? You mean you have not been keeping yours on instant alert?

For once we agree Doojable. Dan I believe it was wise of Pawtucket to embrace the council of posters that he picked. I'm betting that that he picked what he thought to be a fair representation of ideas across the board. It will be a tough job ahead for those involved. I would suggest our prayers and thanks for a tough job would be better placed.

Naw, as long as they include the proper amount of hate ,accusations, and over dramatic rhetoric

Looks to me like someone was responding to your post. The one with no point to make by the way ,except to theorize what I may or may not be thinking. Were you looking for a fight? or was it just about you?

So what are you some kind of psychologist? Had I wanted attention I could have posted on the other book thread, but I choose to do it here instead . So tell me when everyone else offered their opinion of the book were they also seeking attention or is it just the ones you don't like?

( Quote rascal @ Jul 23 2008, 10:33 AM)The forum rules were tightened to where stalking and name calling were eliminated. Really like say for instance on this one where calling people troll., another case of the Pharisees accusing others of doing what they themselves do.

Were we discussing tomatoes? I missed that

Finally finished the book only because I said I would. Easily the worst thing I have done in awhile, I had no problem putting the book down in fact I did so often as I fell asleep while reading it. If I did not know better It almost looks like someone pulled a few facts from posts here and wove some events around them. Same ole same ole heard it before. The only tears I cried were when I came to the realization that I just spent $18.14 for a chew toy for the dog. I should have went to PetSmart. I do think that Kathryn Harrison's review was perfect....... "How is it that a woman determined to be good, virtuous can make such an unholy mess of her life? In pursuit of grace, Kristen Skedgell gave herself to one devil after another. She lost her way in life but not on the page, and her account of finding her way back home, back to the self she denied and betrayed has something to teach all of us" So what is the moral that it teaches us? We should not be pursuing grace when it has been freely given.......

I always liked Melanie's take on Psychotherapy Psychotherapy Oh mine eyes have seen the glory of the theories of Freud, He has taught me all the evils that my ego must avoid. Repression of the impulses resuling paranoid As the id goes marching on. Glory glory psychotherapy, glory glory sexuality, Glory glory now we can be free as the id goes marching on There was a man who thought his friends to him were all superior And this complex he imagined made life drearier and drearier Till his analyst assured him that he really was inferior As the id goes marching on. Glory glory psychotherapy, glory glory sexuality, Glory glory now we can be free as the id goes marching on Do you drown your superego in a flood of alcohol - or something else - And go running after women till you're just about to fall. You may think you're having fun but you're not having fun at all As the id goes marching on. Glory glory psychotherapy, glory glory sexuality, Glory glory now we can be free as the id goes marching on Oh sad is the masochism, the vagaries of sex Have turned half the population into total nervous wrecks. But your analyst will cure you, long as you can pay the cheques As the id goes marching on. Glory glory psychotherapy, glory glory sexuality, Glory glory now we can be free as the id goes marching on Is your body plagued by aches and pains that you can't understand Compound fractures ingrown toenails, floating kidneys, trembling hands, There's a secret to your trouble: you're in love with your old man As the id goes marching on. Glory glory psychotherapy, glory glory sexuality, Glory glory now we can be free as the id goes marching on Freud's mystic world of meaning needn't have us mystified It's really very simple what the psyche tries to hide: A thing is a phallic symbol if it's longer than it's wide As the id goes marching on. Glory glory psychotherapy, glory glory sexuality, Glory glory now we can be free as the id goes marching on.

Rhino I 'd love to hear another "other side of the story". I wonder why anyone would not want the full facts to make an educated decision.

Here's the story of Hurricane ,the story of one who was convicted when prejudices and not facts ruled the justice system. May 16, 2008 Dr. Rubin "Hurricane" Carter To Speak At Commencement 2008 Former boxer, renowned writer and human rights activist Dr. Rubin "Hurricane" Carter will be the featured speaker at the 2008 Sonoma State Commencement. Carter will speak at two separate graduation ceremonies on Saturday, May 24 at 9 a.m. and 3 p.m. on the Commencement Lawn. Carter is a former boxer, writer, human rights activist and Doctor of Laws. He is also and CEO & Founder of Innocence International, a new generation of wrongful conviction services. The life of Rubin "Hurricane" Carter has taken many twists, from obscurity to acclaim and back again. His boxing career began in 1961, and his fast and furious style made him a crowd favorite. Five years later, while preparing for a World Championship fight, Carter was arrested for a triple murder. Although steadfastly maintaining his innocence, he was convicted and sentenced to three life terms, narrowly escaping the electric chair. In 1974, upon the publication of his autobiography and the recantations of the state's two key witnesses (criminals who admitted they had lied at the trial), Carter's case attracted international attention. He became a civil-rights cause celebrity and was immortalized in the Bob Dylan song "Hurricane." A new trial ensued, but the injustice was repeated. However, he never gave up, and in February 1988, the 22-year-old indictment was finally dismissed. Carter has spoken with former President Clinton on issues related to the death penalty, addressed the General Assembly at the United Nations, and has spoken alongside President Nelson Mandela. His story was depicted in the critically-acclaimed film "The Hurricane" starring Denzel Washington. He holds two honorary doctorates from the University of Toronto and Griffith University. Carter frequently lectures at bar associations, universities, law schools, high schools and libraries in the United States, Canada, and throughout the world on such diverse issues as literacy and education, wrongful convictions, habeas corpus, and the death penalty. Link More Carter's career record in boxing was 27 wins, 12 losses and one draw in 40 fights, with 8 knockouts and 11 technical knockouts. He received an honorary middleweight championship title belt from the World Boxing Council in 1993. Hurricane, by Bob Dylan and Jacques Levy Pistol shots ring out in the barroom night Enter Patty Valentine from the upper hall. She sees the bartender in a pool of blood, Cries out, "My God, they killed them all!" Here comes the story of the Hurricane, The man the authorities came to blame For somethin' that he never done. Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been The champion of the world. Three bodies lyin' there does Patty see And another man named Bello, movin' around mysteriously. "I didn't do it," he says, and he throws up his hands "I was only robbin' the register, I hope you understand. I saw them leavin'," he says, and he stops "One of us had better call up the cops." And so Patty calls the cops And they arrive on the scene with their red lights flashin' In the hot New Jersey night. Meanwhile, far away in another part of town Rubin Carter and a couple of friends are drivin' around. Number one contender for the middleweight crown Had no idea what kinda dang was about to go down When a cop pulled him over to the side of the road Just like the time before and the time before that. In Paterson that's just the way things go. If you're black you might as well not show up on the street 'Less you wanna draw the heat. Alfred Bello had a partner and he had a rap for the cops. Him and Arthur Dexter Bradley were just out prowlin' around He said, "I saw two men runnin' out, they looked like middleweights They jumped into a white car with out-of-state plates." And Miss Patty Valentine just nodded her head. Cop said, "Wait a minute, boys, this one's not dead" So they took him to the infirmary And though this man could hardly see They told him that he could identify the guilty men. Four in the mornin' and they haul Rubin in, Take him to the hospital and they bring him upstairs. The wounded man looks up through his one dyin' eye Says, "Wha'd you bring him in here for? He ain't the guy!" Yes, here's the story of the Hurricane, The man the authorities came to blame For somethin' that he never done. Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been The champion of the world. Four months later, the ghettos are in flame, Rubin's in South America, fightin' for his name While Arthur Dexter Bradley's still in the robbery game And the cops are puttin' the screws to him, lookin' for somebody to blame. "Remember that murder that happened in a bar?" "Remember you said you saw the getaway car?" "You think you'd like to play ball with the law?" "Think it might-a been that fighter that you saw runnin' that night?" "Don't forget that you are white." Arthur Dexter Bradley said, "I'm really not sure." Cops said, "A poor boy like you could use a break We got you for the motel job and we're talkin' to your friend Bello Now you don't wanta have to go back to jail, be a nice fellow. You'll be doin' society a favor. That sonofabitch is brave and gettin' braver. We want to put his foot in stir We want to pin this triple murder on him He ain't no Gentleman Jim." Rubin could take a man out with just one punch But he never did like to talk about it all that much. It's my work, he'd say, and I do it for pay And when it's over I'd just as soon go on my way Up to some paradise Where the trout streams flow and the air is nice And ride a horse along a trail. But then they took him to the jailhouse Where they try to turn a man into a mouse. All of Rubin's cards were marked in advance The trial was a pig-circus, he never had a chance. The judge made Rubin's witnesses drunkards from the slums To the white folks who watched he was a revolutionary bum And to the black folks he was just a crazy nigger. No one doubted that he pulled the trigger. And though they could not produce the gun, The D.A. said he was the one who did the deed And the all-white jury agreed. Rubin Carter was falsely tried. The crime was murder "one," guess who testified? Bello and Bradley and they both baldly liedAnd the newspapers, they all went along for the ride. How can the life of such a man Be in the palm of some fool's hand? To see him obviously framed Couldn't help but make me feel ashamed to live in a land Where justice is a game. Now all the criminals in their coats and their ties Are free to drink martinis and watch the sun rise While Rubin sits like Buddha in a ten-foot cell An innocent man in a living hell. That's the story of the Hurricane, But it won't be over till they clear his name And give him back the time he's done. Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been The champion of the world. Copyright © 1975 Ram's Horn Music

Really ? The presumption of innocence — being innocent until proven guilty — is a legal right that the accused in criminal trials has in many modern nations. The burden of proof is thus on the prosecution, which has to collect and present enough compelling evidence to convince the judge and jury, who are restrained and ordered by law to consider only actual evidence and testimony that is legally admissible, and in most cases lawfully obtained, that the accused is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. In case of remaining doubts, the accused is to be acquitted. This presumption is seen to stem from the Latin legal principle that ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat (the burden of proof rests on who asserts, not on who denies).

Yeah what a great song it most surely will ,life does that way.

No change just a clarification for you, since you apparently needed one. I also never said your legislators were attorneys or that all were but many are ,either way if you think that any law does not pass by a legal counsel you are mistaken. Most thinking people realize that when one says in a sentence an automaker made my car it is not necessary to also list everyone like welders also in the sentence In like manner when one says that the laws noted were written by real attorneys , against the charge that I was not qualified in legal matters ,one would assume that all in the process would be included as well without listing each one. I suppose for you we need to also list the page that carried it from office to office. This is pretty clearly a pointless argument due to the fact that you have no real argument to the fact that there in black and white the law with ordinance included indeed says that dead people have the right not to be libeled, it is illegal. Contrary to some who fancy themselves as lawyers that think otherwise. I suppose if I had no answer for inserting my foot in my mouth I'd pick at some miniscule point in someone's writing as well, ........actually I wouldn't but that’s another story. I do enjoy watching you try and change the focus when you have no answer though Its hilariously entertaining

Who are many times attorneys themselves or use the legal staff they have available in writing such laws. Sorry I thought you might know that ,did not realize that I would need to point out each step of writing a law.

Wrong I made nothing up it's there in black and white. for those that can read anyway. It was not a question it was a statement stated as fact . without any documentation that such a charge has been proven in any judicial case thereby rendering it not fact but imagined opinion.

They might wanna recheck their teachings ,that certainly is not what was taught in PFAL. Ephesians 2 5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. 11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; If one received the spirit while being dead in sins then even if one were in sin by leaving as they thought..... if the spirit could abide in us when we were dead in sin I doubt that more sin would necessitate it leaving. Isn't that the point of incorruptible seed?

I am not planning my funeral yet but apparently some other people are.

Oh and Dot Abigail is not my defender she spoke for fairness and equality here she has not defended my position as you pointed out if you have a problem with me.... Bring it! Leave her out of the discussion.

Yeah defending myself against stalkers and personal insults imagine that..... What a tactic

WOW that sounds a little personal ..........

Yeah prooof is what I cited that really irritates you don't it? So you admit that it was not the so called apologists that are the start of the problem Fine we agree.

Correct ,neither are opinions as I have said a gazillion times ,BUT accusations and calains as fact are and that is what we are discussing here. Like this one