WhiteDove

Is that mouse in your pocket named we? Because if not we don't apply to me. in which case you can supply I.

P I I believe they would tell you they are thankful for what he taught them from scripture. Not the same as confessing him as lord, Not even close. I'm thankful for what my history teacher taught me as well but he is not my lord ,or a replacement for Christ. It's quite possible to recognize someone for their contributions to your life without worshiping them. One event does not necessitate the other.

Well at least he did not thank himself for coming again.

Auction Ended Naw there probably is no connection here............

Correction all YOU know is that the item ended. Do you think he suddenly did not want to sell the item? PLEASE.........Your not that dumb WW. Yeah I'm so sure he said to himself one day... Self .... I think I'll list an item on EBay so in a few days I can end it yeah that will be real cool.

This item has ended. Really??? Looks Quite likely to me ............. As I predicted it would not last long. Apparently we found out who has the rights despite the armchair lawyer who thinks they know. You might want to call EBay and see if they buy your first sale theory. Some people just won't listen.

Chris claims he was given rights to distribute anywhere, The Way at one point sued claiming yes they did give rights, but only to Europe. The short of it,After years of legal back and forth Chris won his case. That said to my knowledge he has never distributed any PFAL classes. Only the Walking in God's Power Classes. Linda's remembrance is exactly correct. Only a matter of time ,they watch the ebay sales this would not be the first person that has had an auction pulled at their request.

Receipt of stolen property is a type of crime in the legal code of the United States. It is a federal crime under 18 U.S.C. § 2315 to knowingly receive, conceal, or dispose of stolen property with a value at least $5,000 that is part of interstate commerce (i.e., been transported across state lines). A person can be found guilty of that offense only if all of the following facts are proved: The person received or concealed or stored or disposed of items of stolen property. The items were moving as, or constituted a part of, interstate commerce. The items had a value in excess of $5,000. The person acted knowingly and willfully. The government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the person either received, concealed, stored, sold or disposed of the stolen property. To be guilty of the offense, a person must know that the property had been stolen, but he need not know that it was moving as, or constituted a part of, interstate commerce. The term "interstate commerce" merely refers to the movement of property from one U.S. state into another; and it is sufficient if the property has recently moved interstate as a result of a transaction or a series of related transactions that have not been fully completed or consummated at the time of the person's acts as alleged. All US states also have laws regarding receipt of stolen property; however, there usually is no minimum dollar amount in many jurisdictions, and, of course, the requirement in Federal law regarding interstate commerce does not apply. Also, in many states (Ohio, for example), the burden to prove criminal intent is not as stringent or is nonexistent. This means that one can be charged with the crime - usually a minor degree of felony - even if the person did not know the item in question was stolen.

Perhaps it is you who should try to keep up The "first sale" doctrine says that a person who buys a legally produced copyrighted work may "sell or otherwise dispose" of the work as he sees fit, subject to some important conditions and exceptions. Section 109(a). In other words, if you legally buy a book or CD, "first sale" gives you the right to loan that book or CD to your friend. Libraries heavily depend on the first sale doctrine to lend books and other items to patrons. .Oldies these are not a copy but an original set of tapes not bootlegs.

Of course however a set of class tapes numbered that were not sold, but stolen is a different matter. I don't believe we have assumed that, we can though through documentation tell if they were or not. .Coirrect Twinky, and they have a log to make the claim from if they choose to do so with

I love my dog ,although he did not disclose that he is a bacon strip addict, other than that there is not much BS to put up with.

Assuming we were discussing shrink wrapped EULA's which we were not. We were discussing a class planning form which was used for requesting the use of a set of tapes for a specified time period , which had rules of use that accompanied them.

Funny Hap I just recently found a CD of Back to Oakland/Tower of Power at the used CD store. Even odder the young clerk actualy knew who they were and was surprised that someone else did. He said that was the only one he had ever seen come through the store.

I don't know why you would have not have been given an instructors guide with the tapes Galen ,but somewhere there was one. Session by session segment by segment it was mapped out. I'm looking at one as I speak.

Weak...... right..... that's why every definition posted includes reference to first selling an item ,as opposed to your theory that it need not be so. Nothing weak there it is fact that it is the key component. Speaking of weak your example speaks of giving away CDs and giving gifts despite the fact as stated by posters in the know , these tapes were never a gift, or given as such ,they were supplied to run a class for a specific time period to then be returned. You assume something was for sale it was not.

Well it would unles one was dumb enough to post it on ebay for the world to see . Yes? I agree there is thin ice for prosecution but I would thiink they could receive their stolen property back. They can prove there was never sale of the item and the tape set number will match their log of ownership. No one is speculating just explaining to someone that so far wants to ignore the obvious.

Read The "first sale" doctrine says that a person who buys a legally produced copyrighted work may "sell or otherwise dispose" of the work as he sees fit, subject to some important conditions and exceptions. Section 109(a). In other words, if you legally buy a book or CD, "first sale" gives you the right to loan that book or CD to your friend. Libraries heavily depend on the first sale doctrine to lend books and other items to patrons. Read A legal principle that limits a rightsholder’s rights to control content after it has been sold for the first time. According to first sale doctrine, lawful ownership of an item, such as a music CD or a book, is not the same as owning the copyright of the item Read I'll repeat no tapes were sold, as such no first sale, they were not gifts nor were they leased or rented, They were sent as materials to run a class as an approved instructor for the Way International, upon filing a class materials request form which included the guide on how to instruct the class and care of materials that were in your possession. That form was signed and tape sets sent were numbered on that record as in your possession for the space of time allotted on that form, that you sent to run the class. The copyrights to the tapes belong to TWI, the tapes belong to TWI. They can prove that they do by the set number that was issued and recorded on your signed planning form, there is a shipping record of such to prove delivery. They hold the record of copyright. Of course we had the option but then I knew that the materials belonged to them, what would be the point?

I know you think you are an attorney but as I told you the tapes belong to The Way International. There is no first sale. or any other sale they own the copyrights ,and the tape sets always have always will. Those who gave ,loaned ,copied sets did so on there own much for the reasons Socks described, none the less though maybe they felt for good reason it still was not theirs to do so. Class instructors once approved were loaned, not sold a set of tapes which have a set number. Each set is on record in the Limb as their property, I assume TWI has a master list for which Limb has what sets. once approved to coordinate a class you were issued a set of tapes, materials, a instructors guide which specifies how one is to run their class . At the end of that guide is specified that the tapes must be returned within a allotted time period. If one wishes to be a class instructor that was the arrangement . Believe me they kept control of where their stuff was, when they came to reclaim their property once they decided that we were no longer on their side they came with a printout of every piece, and they counted and packed each one.

I agree just because someone gave it to you does not mean it was theirs to give. The Way of Kansas was a seperate entity as well once but the tapes were property of the Way International.

I agree, I could not find the post about at sea but I did not dig to hard, but I remember as you do him posting it. But here is a similar one We really have not changed the format or 'flavour' of how we have ran PFAL classes. From the first ones that we ran in our Twigs starting in the late 70s, through 80s, 90s, etc. I understand that on the rare occasion when WC were around, trying to poke their noses into what happened in our fellowship, it always got uncomfortable. The brow-beating, ugliness, and power-struggles, ick. We have been truly fortunate to have had very little dealings with WC overall. As I have explained previously. Since the Limb of California gave us a copy of PFAL in 1985, overall we enjoyed far less direct dealing with WC anyway.

Exactly who I was thinking of David but I don't know that claim to be true or false only that it was made, which is why I wrote There may be some exceptions I know some have claimed they were given a set legally I know the CD sets of the Sunday Night Services/ Tape of the Month that VPW taught come out of Denver but this is not the same person. Besides Sara told me that the rights to her fathers teachings since they were not copyrighted or copyrighted correctly belong in PD and that they signed a letter for permission to use them for the project from the family for any intellectual rights.. The Way contested the fact but in the end have left them alone. due to the legal position of their attorneys below. The Way International does NOT hold a copyright to the Sunday Night Service tapes and Tape of the Month tapes by Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille. In fact, it would appear that these tapes were placed in the public domain by Dr. Wierwille and/or the Way International at the time they were distributed due to the fact that there was no copyright symbol placed on any of the tapes.In 1988 Congress passed the Berne Convention Implementation Act, Pub.L. 100-568, 102 Stat. 2853-54 (Oct. 31, 1988) which eliminated the notice requirement completely for all works first published after March 1, 1989. However, prior to that Act the copyright issue would be controlled by the Copyright Act of 1909 (the '1909 Act')." Under the 1909 Act and prior to March 1, 1989, the Copyright Act required that each copy of a work distributed to the public be marked with a copyright notice." TransWestern Pub. Co. LP v. Multimedia Marketing Associates, Inc., 133 F.3d 773, 782 (10th Cir. 1998). Furthermore, "Failure to do so would inject the work into the public domain." Id. However, the Way International, by failing to adhere to the strict statutory formalities-- i.e., the copyright notice requirement—caused all of the works at issue (teachings by Dr. Wierwille) to be passed into the "Public Domain." "Once a work has passed into the public domain as a result of failure to provide adequate notice of copyright, it may freely be copied." Allied Mktg. Group, Inc. v. CDL Mktg., Inc., 878 F.2d 806, 810 (5th Cir. 1989). This indicia requirement in the Copyright Act was not amended until the Berne Convention Implementation Act of 1988, which became effective March 1, 1989. Id. It was not until the Berne Convention amendments that the copyright notice became optional rather than mandatory. Id. See also 17 U.S.C. § 401(a); Norma Ribbon & Trimming, Inc. v. Little, 51 F.3d 45 (5th Cir. 1995). Since Dr. Wierwille passed away in 1985, all of the teachings at issue were produced prior to the Berne Convention Implementation Act and were required to have a copyright notice on each and every tape distributed in order for the copyright protection to be valid. Prior to March 1, 1989, ownership of a valid copyright is established by proving the originality and copyrightability of the material and compliance with the statutory formalities (i.e. – having a copyright notice displayed on each work). Id. See also Allied Mktg. Group, Inc. v. CDL Mktg., Inc., 878 F.2d 806, 810 (5th Cir. 1989); Apple Barrel Prods., Inc. v. Beard, 730 F.2d 384, 387 (5th Cir. 1984). Only after the Plaintiff meets their burden pursuant to 17 U.S.C. § 410© does a defendant have the burden of overcoming it. Autoskill, 994 F.2d at 1487. Accord Williams Electronics, Inc. v. Artic International, Inc., 685 F.2d 870, 873 (3d Cir. 1982)

Exactly and they always specified their return as such if one has a set they belong to them. Now he may have purchased them say at a garage sale or second hand bookstore and as such he may think he has ownership, but if they are stolen goods the Way may have a case for their return, each tape set is numbered so it would be easy to produce a log to show ownership.

Actually it is not, there was no first sale or distribution ,the tape sets always belonged to the Way International they were sent out only to run a class and to be returned upon completion. They remained the property of The Way International. I believe the Belizean BRC folks got into the same trouble with the Way awhile back they had some sets of CD's for sale because the Belize do not honor the copyrights but when they started selling them here in the states The Way went after them. There may be some exceptions I know some have claimed they were given a set legally

I believe that is the asking price for the item. Any bets on how long it will stay up on Ebay?