Ham

A bad acid trip is a walk in the park compared to what some of these people went through..

Having to explain to someone in admissions that you put off getting a degree, in what you're REALLY good at until you're fifty because you p*ssed away twenty five years in a "religious group" (note that I'm being kind here) isn't really all so bad..

And to the "old geezers" on the "board", I say: If it's just a matter of midlife crisis, or change or something.. go to the local store, get a bottle of "herbal calm" or something.. figure out how to ride the wave of the hormones and brain chemicals. Worked for me. Though some may need something a little "stronger".. :) Then go back to school or something.. get a hobby.. get a degree maybe.. make a REAL difference for somebody.. even if it's secular.. being a fifty some year old "waysRus" kid is kinda pathetic.. the bible will actually STILL be around fifty or so years from now, despite your efforts or lack therof.

The only difference between me and them: I was partly prepared to deal with what was going on.. and I could still function somewhat normally in society at the time. Go to work, talk to friends, etc.. Probably scared the hell out of some of them.. I can see how these poor folks could just give up..

Maybe if one has never had been knocked that far out of equilibrium, they just can't understand it.. when it happened to me it was surreal.. I had built up some logical reasoning before then. Found myself looking at myself saying.. oh, I know what brain chemicals those are.. I'm probably STILL nuts.. naw.. the lady in the white smock says I'm OK.

I dunno. What appears insignificant for one, may be devastating for another. Imagine finding that your "loving" wife is being "boinked" by another man. Not too "big" a deal- "just get over it".. but the other "man" is supposed to be one who lives "the word" in a manner that his life is above reproach. The betrayal is more than two-fold.. he's also your employer. you've been taught to suppress strong emotions, such as anger, revenge, etc. by this very "man".. and you find yourself having a stream of emotions that you are in no way prepared to deal with.. in a flash, you realize that almost EVERYTHYING you've been told is just plain WRONG.. You're "done".. twenty years on the job, and you can't bring yourself go to work another morning, and be subservient to one who performed this act of betrayal.. so where do you go.. you have no savings, to speak of.. and the world is full of "devils" waiting to jump you when you walk off grounds.. you leave, and your wife stays behind. The "boss" makes sure of that.. you walk off the grounds, without the wife, without friends, no income, no trust in other human beings, and no God.. you tell me. this guy lost his life over it.. I've had to look at darkness straight in the face.. maybe not to this degree.

ever stop for a moment and think that perhaps.. what happened to other people FELT the same to them? :)

Yep. It's even an honorarily bestowed, good as the paper it's printed on Doctor of Squirrelogy

Hey.. you have to know what you're working with here..

Hmm. I guess we DO "remember" them who "labored(?)" among us..

How'd you guess??

He ended up being a rev at twenty-something..

I think the old ministry raised up a bunch they could BRIBE.. those who couldn't be bought were often run off.. like Geek, Ralph.. others. MANY of the rest had character with the constitution of water.. fast growth seemed to put a heck of a lot of "bad characters" in charge of things.. they came in by droves from the woodwork.. one guy who managed to do quite a bit of damage at the first just "showed up" at one of the campuses. "Well, if you can come up with the money, you can stay.."

Another thought.. Fast growth can be a highway to hell for some organizations. It's it's own worst nightmare.. the old ministry rapidly outgrew it's ability to provide SOUND leadership at an alarming rate. That's providing it could provide sound leadership to begin with. These new bunch coming up. They are what.. 21, 22, 23.. 24.. "we gotta BUILD men and women.." I think they will end up with the same thing as the old.. many leaders as uneducated and unsound as they are inept and unproven. I saw many in the old days side with evil because it was simply the easier route. Or it felt right. Or it had enough money. So many of the leaders of this newer offshoot.. are facing the twilight years of their life.. there's not entirely monumental growth in the organization.. loss of other leaders probably remind them of their own mortality.. why are they so desperately afraid, or concerned- that their "legacy" will pass into the night.. I view this new development as a desperate measure.

Naw. Brain case is WAY too large.

I can see it. "2001, a Vey Oddysey" opening scenes, a monkey, remarkably resembling loy, with a bone that resembles the letter M. He throws it in the air.. flash forward two million decades, to the spinning W in space..

If this kind of question enrages someone.. it just proves a point. They haven't thought the thing through..

please don't take this as an insinuation or accusation of any given individual in the organization. but as the coordinator of a program.. what do you do IF you catch one you trust your life with putting their greasy hands on an enrollee.. turn your head, and act like it was your imagination.. or that it didn't happen? Do you have the REAL character to "deal" with it? "Naw, too negative.. it would NEVER happen.." Want to bet? If you can't "deal" with it.. even just the POSSIBILITY.. you're not ready by a long shot, in my opinion. Similar incidents happened in the parent organization. People either turned their heads, said nothing, ingnored it, or they lost their heads. If one thinks these questions are hard and mean, consider that the questions on the other end of a witness stand are a heck of a lot "harder".. and one finds themselves forced to answer, in many cases. ask rosie, loy.. Hopefully, I'm almost done here.. :) If I didn't care, I wouldn't say a damn thing..

The idea that a "novice", or "young man" as another poster put it, is coordinating something like this is disturbing to me.. anybody who shuts off communication just because someone asks a few "hard" questions, only gives me a few MORE questions, harder than the ones before. What about their maturity, their meekness.. their real qualifications to coordinate something like this.. if he can't deal with ME, how can he deal with his so called "mentors"? "We oughter have something like lead".. "fine".. "we oughter have something like the rodeo school" "fine".. I'm not questioning his "heart" or motive. I'm really questioning common sense, at least to begin with. what are you gonna do if someone REALLY gets hurt.. what REALLY qualified people are you going to have staff the deal.. are you gonna send people home on a whim, or use the "send you home at any time" clause as a threat when they don't "perform".. what are you gonna do if twi sends you a cease and desist letter.. I wonder if they even CONSIDERED that little possibility. Surely they know twi has been gleefully suing groups just because they have a similar name, or just look like them.. or "borrow" their material.. Mc**&&en knows.. The "young man" has far more to loose than the rest of them.

Yeah.. what's interesting, when they have your head bobbing up and down on doctrinal issues, they've pretty much got you.. :)

Friend, I wish.. I listened to a lot of what you had to say, much sooner :)

"Whadda I say, whadda I do.." "nothing, son, nothing.." when an "elder of the church" has every hair on his body standing upright over an "endeavor".. It's like.. in the days of Ahab.. what was it.. 350 of them said "go for it, man.." I really pray they are reading some of this stuff.. only avenue I've got.. :)

Interesting.. That is at least PARTLY encouraging.. but still- I could see my emails traded around in the background.. pretty close knit family. I wasn't exactly born yesterday.. I know the "routine" :)

with the dismal volunteer rate for the "real" corps.. maybe rosie should consider "outsourcing".. could practically sell their current training locations..

Those were basically the questions I asked.. maybe slightly more "pointed" however. :) Are they going to have some kind of "survival" program like lead? Specifically.. slip shod to the extent people end up losing toes to frostbite.. or something like the rodeo school.. only a few walked off with some broken vertabrae.. broken legs.. or the consequences of putting off a career, an education, twenty years from now.. These were SOME of the consequences I referred to that people DON'T sign on the dotted line for. Or is it a little "challenge" added as the program turns? If somebody here has a LOT closer "in" with them here, the above are the questions that I'd be asking.. along with these.. what are the people involved going to write about you, twenty five years from now? Are they going to find their names plastered all over yet ANOTHER "vomitorium"? The short term profit- you may get a few who survive, who can muster up enough resources to really move the organization.. maybe even really motivate a crowd.. and I'm sure a *few* good folks will come out of it.. they managed to in the old program.. but what are you going to look like in thirty years..