Ham

the religious seem to be the most cruel. I know of one who was made to feel helpless and inferior because he found his wife was being boinked continually by the then supposed mog.. yes, he committed suicide as well. His last known words to a friend- "I just can't compete with him (lcm)".. the only difference between him and loy, at least in my opinion.. loy had the benefit of meds and docs when he was cut loose.. the ONLY reason I think they stood behind him.. was NOT for humanitarian reasons or anything. He got them in soooo much "trouble".. I don't think they had an ounce of compassion. I think it was only to save the organization.. imagine the local newspaper.. ""retired" mogster snuffs himself in a fit of despair.." it would have been the real end of the organization.. in my opinion anyway.. I'd say "God have mercy on those scumbuckets.." but it's not up to me..

I don't hold a grudge either. I just keep it warm on the back burner in the unlikely event they might want to partake of their own concoction. But it doesn't really belong to me anymore. It was largely THEIR recipe, not mine.. I'm not entirely heartless. I don't think anybody should eat it cold..

It could be titled "Da Vey, a Field of Nightmares: The story of a good(?) Cult gone bad.." "if you build it, *they* will come.." It might be more suited to something like Stephen King would write

Maybe it means something to somebody here.. who knows.. then again, I often have a pretty vivid imagination and if beating the weeds with the shovel fails, send in the lawyers wearing dark glasses and trenchcoats, to take a "deposition". "Now Mahhhm, how did you FEEL when you as you reputedly claim the greasy mogster laid his *holy hands* on you?" "well, I was confused.." "and?" "well, I was a little angry.." "Mahhhm.. make up your mind. First you say you were confused, then you say you were angry. Which was it?"

I dunno. I have this little movie playing in my head.. Some clueless hell, fire and brimstone preacher out in his field of weeds.. with a shovel. Trying to beat them down with the shovel. All the while invoking and swearing.. "Down in da name of Jaysus.. down. Down I say.." I think it's gonna take just a tad more effort than that..

In a sense, I think they were "believing for failure". They've sown and inherited a field full of weeds and tares.. I don't know if anybody else noticed, but weeds are pretty agressive.. better get busy fella..

I dunno. Just because I like someone, doesn't mean I accept everything they say as truth. Then again, my motto isn't exactly "trust no one" either.. when I here accounts of ladies being "counselled" in the old days with something like "just get over it and get laid".. I tend to find their claims to be credible. Why? I've seen and heard this kinda thing at least twice. And that was only because the damned limb leader was reckless at the time. Screaming obscenities, and loud enough to heardthrough two solid doors.. so, yeah.. I find a similar account VERY credible. Or people relating living in a rather vulnerable circumstance, being screamed at they are a disgrace to the word, to God himself and the "ministry".. to pack their .... and IMMEDIATELY leave.. yeah, I find it credible. Something VERY similar to this happened to me.. and in a very similar circumstance. Or stories from women about physical and verbal abuse from the then spouse, sanctioned by "leaders" at the LIMB level and up.. I find it VERY credible. Why? I saw it happen, PERSONALLY. For these old "leaders".. life must be terrifying. It's like the night of the living dead. No matter how many times they beat the old corpses with a shovel, i.e., "just get over it and forgive like Jaysuss".. they keep coming back, to haunt them, again, and again, and again.. I can understand them. Don't exactly feel much pity for them though.. :)

I don't know if some really realize where that logic leads, Rascal.. that somehow gawd uses abusive and dispicable evil men to bless mankind.. it's like.. either you have a god who loves to hate, or a god who hates, to love.. and forever the wheels keep turning around and around.. the backside of reality trying to cover the front.. I don't see how a mind doesn't shrink to a singularity, in a cycle like that..

I don't know if I was ever marked and avoided by twi.. I THINK I have that designation in an offshoot however.

makes me wonder.. why is it these "great men o gawd" just HAVE to be scoundrels, or murderers, or extortioners, or blasphemers, or persecutors, or sexual abusers of one form or another, or.. just fill in the blank.. find a sin, and very likely you'll find a manogawd to fill it.. it's almost a "requirement".. maybe they don't know how to do anything different.. maybe humanity is better off.. just put them in a little ivory palace, feed them.. better than them roaming free.. Oldies.. I'll tell you where your "logic" is leading me. If God loved so much as to send one or more of these kind of scumbags to bring us the truth.. maybe he doesn't love like you think he does..

It's only a matter of time. Look what they did to the wife of the first pres.. I wonder how "bitter" and "unforgiving" she's gonna be.. EVERYBODY is "expendable" at der vey. even those who are it's backbone.. the VOLUNTEERS.

so in the end.. he died as a fool. maybe he wasn't "all he was cracked up to be".. maybe he didn't have "wisdom like it hath notter been known since the -3000th century"..

It seems that a lot of us have an on button. It's "just get over it.. sheesh been twenty some years..he's dead, can't do anything about it now.. you're just being bitter.." I would suggest, if one does not want to hear the elaboration over the past, don't bring it up, or don't try to disannul it. Do it to yourself if you want.. but it usually just hits the on button in others here.. at least that I've observed. oh.. the few issues I have left are with are still alive.. in a cozy palace, insulated from any kind of confrontation, outside of legal proceedings. Oh well.. I pity the poor bas*ards.. really. They are worse off than I am. rosie might have more cashola than what she knows what to do with.. but what happens when she's even older than she is now.. can't remember where it's all at really. Unless she has a team of guards (lawyers), and guards to guard the guards (even more lawyers).. they will bleed her dry.. all the estate will go to pay the legal fees me? I'll die broke, barring winning the lottery.. I don't have those kind of worries and donna. when rosie's gone, what's her fate.. next pres of da way? I really don't think so.. I really can't see her having the stamina to go out with a bucket, ammonia, squeege.. and hit the beat, trying to dredge up a few window cleaning jobs for her next meal.. she'd fold inside of a week. In my opinion. and harvey.. maybe he could go back playing licks in bars.. but his years of experience in da ministry.. what's that gonna look like on a resume? Ya know.. they'll check out the corporation he claims to be on the board with.. maybe look at the history a little bit.. It was YEARS of USELESS toil. In my opinion. And they think they are sitting on a gold mine or something.. wait till the dow goes below 2,000.. don't say "never".. my statistics prof says of other similar matters "if it is POSSIBLE, the odds of it happening is 100%" See Johnny.. I've "gotten over it" I've moved on.. made a few friends, gotten a few marketable skills.. though I'll probably have to work till seventy to pay off all the student loans. but like the salmon, I find myself swimming back up to the the little pond here.. :)

That does presuppose that the said person even has or had a heart, to begin with.Same could be said for a conscience, for that matter. But then again.. maybe the old guy was bipolar. The nicest, most tranquil person on the face of the earth, one moment. Then a raging bug-eyed monster the next. I could see how someone could mistake the "down swings" with some kinda peace or something.. and the manic episodes.. "sheesh. he's valiant for da truth.." "man, what a teaching.." I think we were taught not to think. If one can't understand or consider what one considers "negative" maybe one cannot make a sound decision regarding it.. Perhaps these kind of dicsussions are just too painful for some people, and they'd rather shut it out.. wake up in twig somewhere in 1972..

Of course, eighty six percent of those whom actually went through the training won't recommend it to a dead dog..

Happy Birthday! Nice you could share it with us..

Now it looks like roughly three out of four would not go back to the same restaurant..

It's the fourth one that "stands out" from the rest. The first three are merely "synoptic" accounts sowy..

I think it's a matter of perspective. Like the three blind guys trying to describe an elephant.. examining the trunk, one says "an elephant is like a snake" the other, examing the legs.. "naw.. it's like a tree.." the other.. I forget. But I think that's what we have here. One says, "gawd, he was a drambuie soaked a**hole.." another: "he was an abusive and demanding sexual pervert" another: "he was a thief and plagiarist" and the other: "He sure was a man of gawwd.." I prefer to look at the big picture. He was a drambuie guzzling, perverted, narcissistic, thieving intellectual pretender who could put on a fair speech. :) It's like the four gospels. You know, one record doesn't give ALL of the details..

I think there was a REAL problem equating fruit of the spirit with "operating da manifestations" as we were taught. I really think "fruit comes by the operation of the manifestations" + "heck, I sit.." does not imply "I have da fruit". I think it was another unwarranted assumption made by the mogster. Just because someone can spew out gibberish that sounds something like Swahili.. doesn't give them a free ticket to sin and expect forgiveness.. "see? I'm a BROTHER(?).." I've heard people speak in tongues.. and it sounded more like peeping and muttering.. yeah, there's an old testament reference I'm alluding to..

The proportions on the last question are pretty significant.. eighteen out of twenty-three would not recommend the product to a friend or neighbor. Usually that's the "last but not least" question.. I'd imagine that's what a manfacturer would be most interested in.

That's even more interesting. How many of us were like that.. the quiet types, hanging around, thinking that was what life was supposed to be all about. It took me a long long time to wake up and take an honest look at what I'd been observing for years, and to take an honest look at what I had become. It can be frightening. Into one's forties, few real developed social skills.. few developed and documentable professional qualifications in anything.. a handful of alienated, though distant relatives, whom I had not seen for over twenty years. the comfort on one side of the caged window isn't worth the price.

umm.. the ones I'm speaking of are still alive.. at least they look that way.. maybe dead inside, who knows.. ya know, it's impossible to "forgive" a dead man.. understand him maybe, why he did what he did.. try to forget- but "forgive"? see.. there is nothing I can personally think of to make the situation "right" between you and him. there is still a chance for the living. At least in this particular life..

well.. "forgive them brother.. take da suffering.." I don't know if you stopped to think.. they don't WANT your or my forgiveness. Probably never will.. ok.. letsa take you up on the kind "exhortation.". Let them come to my door. I won't turn them away, and I'll say, face to face.. "I forgive you for being the lying, scumsucking weasel dirtbags who let down your bretheren and let them get pillaged, sold stolen merchandise, plundered, raped and worse, just to be filled with a piece of bread.." the only thing I'd add: "if I can possibly have anything to do with it, you are not going to do it to anyone else" then again, I dunno. Maybe they committed the "unforgivable".. "naw.. they SPEAK IN TONGUES.." I don't buy the s.i.t. proof and all.. anybody can babble incoherently given the proper motivation. Some can even do it without the right kind of motivation, all by themselves.. :) edited to add "dirtbags". sounded right..

Might want to try Iron Out. They say it is good at removing pesky blood stains.. don't know what it'll do to the rest of the scroll