Ham

call it an "estranged" relationship.. I know the kid.. and the family.. but I've distanced myself, at least doctrinally.. I've just had enough of the same stuff.. don't hate them or anything.. but when I see something that makes my hair stand on end, I WILL say something.. even if it's not done according to Rocky's etiiquette.. :)

Sadly, I feel many of my "helpful" comments were considered rather "negative".. kinda like.. why ruin "the walk by faith" with a few details.. it's at this point I turn cynical. At least there is ONE difference between this, and the inception of vic's "corps".. there are a number of people watching VERY VERY carefully. Whatever happens, I feel my hands are clean in the matter..

They can't deliver ICBM's, that I know of, at least yet.. or bring war to our particular shore.. Second best choice? Bury us under a barrage of hard drives, cars, garden implements and kitchen appliances perhaps?

My impression is they don't really KNOW the mistakes gramps made.. I think they were carefully shielded. I don't know what they think of the parents. One son of the innies publically called one of the "twigs" a "geezer fellowship" on a myspace page. Maybe he has half a chance.. but I think the general thought among a lot of them is: "it was something that happened when I was five years old.. what POSSIBLE RELEVANCE would that have to today?" I think youngster took at least one history class.. what "possible relevance" could what the British did to China in the last century or so have to do with the current state of affairs.. They just let bygones be bygones and all.. It was just "business" ya know.. supplied a little dope to heat up the economy a little.. sure.. "let's just be friends now.." ;) But the system they are trying to resurrect, taught people how to live in poverty and grovel.. no college loans, just stay in the same dead end career..no house payments, just keep making the bank payment for some landlord.. no car payments, just own a rust bucket that costs you ten times the maintenance.. and above all, be LOYAL.. give fifteen percent and up, an keep smiiiiiling..

I'd like to make a small comparison.. what are "nunneries" turning out these days? Here's one who teaches chemistry and biochemistry: http://www.odu.edu/webroot/orgs/IA/univers...2122007040147PM here's one who will likely be able to teach graduate courses in literature: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...750C0A96E958260 .There are well over a hundred nuns in the u.s. who have a REAL doctorate in Mathmatics.. what are they doing? Raising up chemists, physicists, engineers, more math people.. among other things. Trying to improve the economy despite insane governments in some parts of the world.. or just helping ordinary people with a career, so they can properly support themselves and their family. And we were "warned" of the dire consequences of their beliefs.. trinity and all ya know.. The Way Corps was FOR THE MOST PART, an utter, abysmal failure.. what did it produce? A FEW good apples. I know them too. But for the most part, I think what came out were not leaders and workers, but trained sycophants, honed in a carefully crafted shell game, a scam where they live on the backs of others. Along with meddlesome tyrants who aren't happy unless they have their nose in every crevice of your life.. and abusers, both sexual and psychological.. Look at gear, loy, lynn, the guy with the tinfoil hat.. what's his name.. and others. They don't know how to do anything else, for the most part. at least lynn did something "secular"- I'll give him that much credit. "believe to bring MATERIAL ABUNDANCE to yourself (we really mean) the ministry". Sorry.. to me, this newfangled thing looks the same as the old. unless they have a five year plan to get these "inductees" through school, or something legitimate, it's doomed..

Apparently no choice in his "vocation" either. It was "named" for him. He's been surrounded, carefully groomed by these over the hill moglets who can't run a ministry based on their own name.. He may have good character, but I *think* a pumped ego. And who did that.. I ask again.. why else is he hanging out with a bunch of OLD GEEZERS (and I put myself *almost* in the same category) "coordinating" a Way Corps lookalike program? Why isn't he in grad school? why.. isn't he building REAL CREDENTIALS AND ABILITIES? Instead he's hanging out with in my honest opinion.. a bunch of moggish loosers stuck on a dead end street.. and they seem to be rather happy to carry a banner with his name on it.. I have bad feelings about this little venture, almost any way I look at it.. You don't want to know the rest of what I really think about all of this.

Johnny, that's kinda my point. We, or I sent people off to get what was reputed as the finest christian training in the world.. to a group the we (thought) we KNEW.. with instructors whom I basically gave the benefit of the doubt.. vic could do no wrong.. or don, or howie.. or Lynn.. or any of them. I left the way in a similar circumstance as you. It was right at the time I'm leaving the joint, or shortly after, that I find myself learning about the corruption these "good men" weaved into the organization. The guys running this new thing.. I know, or at least THINK I know them. But I thought I knew the guys running the program in the old days too. I would hope so. adding a few precautions would help too. who's in charge of the keepers..

So why would they even CARE what I think.. Not all the time, but often a dose of reality resembles your referenced curdled green expelled material.. the whole crew involved in the new venture.. they KNOW where the kind of organization they want to emlulate went to in the seventies, eighties, nineties.. except for the "coordinator". My opinion. the same system they are trying to wring some good out of, provided courtesans for the mogs and mog wanabes.. and thank God- YOU didn't take advantage of it. But how many did? I'm sure they won't come forward into the little "vomitorium" and spill their guts.. probably have wives, families they might destroy.. oh well.. it'll probably eat their stomach out for the rest of their days. How much does junior really know about the "history of da way"? we didn't get very far..

But Rocky's outrage was kinda a surprise. You'd a thought I slapped the Queen of England or something.. :) The last time I heard that kind of "correction" was about twenty five or so years ago from an equally unlikely source: a young girl who was a retired hippie of sorts.. I called vic "wierwille".. and she almost jumped out of her skin and hissed, "WE CALL HIM DOCTOR Wierwille!!!" You'd a thought I'd slapped the Queen of England or something..

Johnny, I'm actually being civil here. I'll spare you from seeing my nasty side.. ;) But.. didn't these guys have a CLUE of what kind of hornets nest they would stir up.. I just want a few answers. If "they" would have kept up some kind of dialog, I wouldn't be posting my questions and concerns here.. Apparently they don't owe me any answers on account of my lack of involvement in the organization. Only a guess, but probably a good one..

given his history with der vey, a court very well may consider something like this beyond simple copyright infringement.. toss in something that involves the word "malicious".. how many acres do you say you have?

Another thought.. with such a CLOSE resemblence to a product of "The Way International".. I'd be quite suprised if they didn't get a letter from twi's legal "champions".. especially since Mc***en is involved in it..

If it is a work/study program.. who is going to do the teaching? what material? are they gonna run bootleg copies of vic's Thesslonians teachings? Or Romans? Or whatever? These REALLY are the kind of questions that SHOULD be answered on a web page somewhere.. or a course catalog. If I had a child considering going to something like this.. I would REALLY REALLY want to have a few HONEST answers.. it reminds me of a scene at a sanitarium in the 1800's.. dropping off a loved one who is just a little confused.. "You'll treat him OK? What are you going to do?" "Don't worry mahm.. we know what we are doing.. we'll take GOOD care of him.."

Don't forget to pay first. They'll give you a "deal". Probably sixty to a hundred bucks or so.. "Your pen, or mine?" Then there's the intermediate.. whatever they call it now.. and the advanced whatever.. don't wanna be a slacker, do you? Oh.. I hear they still have a corps program for those who wish to be "gawd's crap troops.." sowie.. :)

what I find interesting here.. Shr*yer is barely cold in the ground before this little groundbreaking. Just two months..

Maybe he hasn't considered.. in twenty or thirty years, the "trainees" will be giving THEIR evaluations.. and it might be in a place like this..

Similarities.. they'll just have to take the first set of folks, kick their a**, and send them home as "zeros".. just for appearance sakes..

What the "young man" may not realize.. he's gonna outlast these "old geezers" by say, about.. forty or so years. who's going to be left holding the bag when things go sour?

As far as the "young man" is concerned.. I think he's brilliant. Graduated Cum Laude.. very intelligent. lots of potential.. WHY IS HE HANGING AROUND A BUNCH OF "GEEZERS" close to three times his age, who want to resurrect some OLD program? He may be brilliant.. but "unproven".. like you said he is a "young" man. Why are a BUNCH OF OLD GEEZERS carrying a banner with HIS name on it? I think these are reasonable questions.. I've been really nice with any characterizations I've made, to this point..

umm, I happen to know him. I won't print emails. All I say is, the info I got was "sketchier" than the website.. among my concerns.. "what are you doing to prevent the kind of fiasco that the corps program turned out to be" who's watching those in charge.. what are their qualifications.. or is it going to be a program based on the same kind of slip shod reasoning.. that put people in harms way- and got consequences that they did NOT sign on for.. I asked nicely. Well, as nicely as I could :) You did give me a little more info.. Mcm**In's involved with it..

I think he has a "counsel" of wierwillian yes men.. tell me if I'm wrong..

That wasn't my question.."what have you done to keep history from repeating itself". The "kid"'s heart is irrelevant.. at least as to my inquiry. There is no assumption. At least at this point, as far as I'm concerned. but why should they care for my concerns..

I've only asked easy questions, so far..

I can hear the "answers" before I even ask.. "and what are YOU doing for gawd.." "why aren't YOU involved.." "you know NOTHING about it.." well.. here I am.. enlighten me.

Or it is a voice of HONEST DAMN INQUIRY. The questions the *in* crowd won't ask.. where heads bob up and down at every level of the "tree".. "yaw, that's a good idea. I heard it's a good idea.. it's a good idea after all.. sounds biblical.." I just wish I didn't have to ask them here.. I'm not going to ask them at the portals of the mutual admiration society.. just get the same answers..