Ham

That really says it all, heh heh heh.

Outandabout, that describes me fairly well too. I loved PFAL, fellowships and stuff- gave my life for it. Always refused to advance in a way that would tie up nights and/or weekends. Always made myself available for da group.. and after a while, apparently even that was not enough. Didn't even CONSIDER going back to school.. I am still discovering the many ways I was robbed, but at least it is getting to be less and less intense all the time. I am no longer furious, perhaps because I am doing something about the situation, now only a little "disgruntled", heh heh. But I still probably won't be able to retire, unless I accidently hit the big time or something. That kind of bothers me, but things could be worse. With issues like this, I don't think you ever really get over it. Like it or not, I think this stinking life comes with a few tears. It seems those who say "just get over it" most vocally often are those sitting comfy on the top of some offshoot or something. Their needs are met- maybe they just don't understand. Even from a biblical perspective, the idea that God is somehow gonna wave a magic wand and take away all our pain is ludicrous- at least until paradise is restored. Despite all the crap, I think I'm fairly peaceful, most of the time.

That is a very good point. But the past often does come back up- though it may not hurt as much as it once did. It seems those who say "just get over it" or "it wasn't such a big deal, it was a long time ago" when the past does come up, are almost automatically guaranteed to get the opposite kind of reaction than what they wanted. I don't wallow in the past, or in the fact I supported a blood sucking bunch of idiots with my hard earned pay, but it seems you never get over it, completely- at least for me. Just looks like a bad bad dream, long long ago.. but it still is there, and it WAS a big deal. Pain can be a good thing- at least I won't do SOME things again, heh heh.

But before I derail my own thread too much.. I still think anger, or even bitterness, at least initially, is an appropriate response to the kind of nonsense we were subjected to. These are just some bare facts- certain numbskulls in rural Ohio are sitting on a nest of OUR abs and efforts, and we will very likely never see it used for the purpose that it was given. Those are just the facts. Eventually, you're gonna have some feelings about that.. and its OK to get mad.

Signals, what I said, I meant perhaps not that it is not worth the effort, but I feel like that is not my fight, at least at this time. Gotta choose your battles carefully.

I can almost see George A*r rolling his eyes about now.. maybe even me too. I kind of have the impression that the P**ler suit or ramifications is not what's going to do them in- its gonna be something internal, something they couldn't have guessed in a million years. Won't know what hit em. Who knows, maybe I'm nuts. Heh heh. Maybe its just wishful thinking, who knows..

Sorry for my lack of manners. Welcome, Signals.

It may be an allusion to the "if Raf was the Devil" thread..

Yep- and somehow, we are just supposed to forget about it and go on our merry way.. MOST of that did not happen to me, but I am not very "happy" about what they did to my brethren. Even if it was just the money, that alone is too much. Just being a "religious" outfit does not exempt them from due anger, like some think- at least in my opinion.

Yep- so let me make it clear, I have NO KNOWLEDGE of any proposed legal actions against them. Just a "genuine spiritual suspicion"- heh heh. I just have a feeling that they are gonna lose it, lose it all. I've been right with these kind of feelings before.. who knows. But I do not have any current or future plans to go after the idiots in a court of law. Just not worth the effort, at least to me.. too high of a price to pay. I have read about the legal wrangling in the copyright issues.

Same here Belle. What's done is done, and for myself, I've come to grips with it- for the most part. I thought the subject deserved its own special place in light of certain "drop the bitterness" multiple postings recently. I think people have the right to get hacked off about being stolen from. And money was only a part of it- but an essential part nonetheless. Some of us did not realize what was stolen from us until years passed by; that was the case for me. If all we lost was cash, that would be reason enough to get hacked off, and valid- in my opinion. It doesn't hurt as much as it used to, but when I think about it, it does revive a little bit of grief. I don't think people have many fond memories about being sold prime real estate fifteen feet under swamp land, heh heh.

Yep. Especially after all the rants about giving 15 to 20 percent and such.. how God won't spit in your direction if you do otherwise, how they need the money - and it just sits there, paying the leeches salaries and lawyer fees- oh well, maybe the lawyers can do something fun with it, heh heh.

Maybe it does not bother me enough. Somehow, the concept that I should not be "bitter" because it is just about the money- even if that were so- doesn't sit right with me any more.

This seems to be a theme that is coming up on a couple of other threads. What about the money? How DO you feel that a handful of slimeballs, numbnuts, friggin idiots, call them what you will- sit on a pile of cash and resources contributed by God's people that they neither earned or actually labored a day in their life for? A substantial sum that was SUPPOSED to contribute to "the outreach of the word"? And they have a team of lawyers busy at work trying to figure out how to get more. Look at all the copyright lawsuit crap.. But they maintain only a rather thin veneer of religion to justify their position of power. Anybody with a heart and mind has to be affected by this, including me, but it does not bother me nearly as much as it used to. I can almost see them sitting in a boardroom somewhere, "Well, when the lawsuits are all done we still should be sitting pretty..." The question should not be "when" but "if".

Makes sense. Like, maybe he thinks we oughta just lay off and let them enjoy the fruits of their non-labor and get on with the business of running a fourth rate cult or something. Good grief. Apparently we are having more of an impact than most think.

Maybe a more honest question would be "why do you STILL trash da vey so vehemenently?" I can think of quite a few good reasons, other than bitterness, or the classic blame of assuming a victim mentality, whatever that is.. They have not changed. Nada, zip, none at all. They still hold tenaciously to their arcane, false, and destructive doctrine- regarding almost EVERYTHING. All form of debt wrong, blind obedience demanded if you want to be in the vey "who's who" book of "life". That's just the tip of the iceberg. Good grief- only recently did they come to the doctrinal conclusion that something is fundamentally wrong with beastiality. The most evil, coniving and manipulating individuals are in charge of that "organization" if you can call it that, at least in my (and hopefully others) opinion. And they sit there like some angels of light or something.. They allowed a known abuser to have at almost any woman in the "kingdom" he could get his hands on, and protected his backsides with the resources of God's people. They were willing to make him head of THE RESEARCH DEPARTMENT. The same clowns are still in charge, and never repented of this sin. Let me ask, who really is bitter? It's got them by the throat. The former president at best could PRETEND to have revelation. Look at the record of what he boldly proclaimed- the word being over the world, that the corps was to be full time ministers, that the pope was gonna get an aircraft carrier and subject us to another inquisition, etc. etc. etc. My bible has a lot of "bitter" things to say about false prophets. And they stick. But they will hold on to his words and classes until somebody can pry them from their cold, dead fingers. The new pres is no better, in my opinion. They still use fear and threat of expulsion to keep their members in line. Some stay in because they KNOW they will lose their families, wives, husbands and/or children if they leave. They are still looking for fresh meat. Some young, new people that will fuel the beast. It would be negligent to not keep the "beware" sign up. It would be negligent not to tell your story, and allow one more unsuspecting human being walk into the mouth of the lion. What is the price of a soul? My bible says the love of God is to HATE EVIL. Call it bitterness if you want, but I don't think I'm "bitter" enough.

Cats do this too. I don't know what it is, but once it stops moving, it just isn't as much fun- so they have to just make believe, I guess.. Maybe once the dogs actually catch one of these hellish, chittering demons, they need to take advantage of the moment, heh heh.

Yep, I figured so Belle. Just nice to give the few good folks a little breathing room- but I can't think of anyone in that category in the bunch that that description would fit- at least in high leadership positions- since the early eighties. Considering "Mrs" Moneyhands was an actual COUNSELLOR really multiplies her guilt, at least in my eyes. Squandered her life and professional ethics and reputation to cover Loy's back sides. Wonder how she feels about it now? Probably nothing- just doing her job..

Maybe they will start counting pets. That oughta do it.. oops, forgot- they can't have any.

Could have been partly true- they may have had an opening for a stock boy or something. In his eyes, maybe he thought it was a ticket to the presidency or somethin..

To be fair, some who tried were canned faster than you could promounce the word "spaghetti", and reputations trashed likewise. Those who held on despite knowing, like "Mr" Moneyhands, have no excuse.

Yep, Belle- reminds me of one of Daffy Duck's great statements- "Its not about the principle of the thing, its about the money".

Why am I here, why am I here.. pretty tough question. I think that's what other people ask at times, "why is he here?" heh heh. Lessee.. 1. A chance to spill my guts in front of God only knows how many complete strangers, heh heh. Doubtless I know many of you, and would recognize you in person, but there is a certain amount of anomynity. but there's more! 2. Over twenty years of my suppressed frustration and insanity has to find some place to go- unfortunate for you good people. Its nice to have an outlet when you find yourself laughing your rear off and crying at the same time- yep, guys can go through this too, heh heh. Sometimes only those who went through it are the only ones that can understand what people are going through. 3. It's nice to meet up with people that have left that underbelly of that outhouse, who still live and actually prosper despite the otherwise warnings of dire doom.. 4. Maybe more later..

Heh heh heh heh.. well, if you keep the right kind of food for them stocked in the pantry, they go a little easier on you. "Squillard"- heh heh.

Heh heh heh. That's every bit as if not more funny than the song about when they squirrel went to church, heh heh. Squirrel had a "hard night on the town", heh heh heh heh heh..