bliss

(((((T)))))

That was lovely! I woulda bought it! See how we get sucked into all that? You could be the next Max Lucado with that writing.

But, sadly, that is what many people in Christian circles do. The writing is so pretty and poetic. Makes us feel good, and caters to our egos. Without realizing it, they read and then talk about these authors books as if they were doing true research of the scriptures.

I think Son of the Master means well. Just like us, he believed a system of thinking/not thinking....................and then took it and left TWI, but, ran right into the arms of the Word/Faith movement! (it was comfortable).

Changing your "believe" to "faith" is hard to swallow...................That "I" am not the center of the universe, but God is, this is a bigger challenge.

If I am wrong Son, tell me. But from your posts I can gather this, but I will not judge your intentions.

In my opinion, Hinn, Hagin, White, Shambam, even Kenyon.........

lots of flair without the coffee.

LOL

I was thinking fire............................mixed in with a little horse poo

oh wait....they sold all the horses!

What the h are people going to do there now?

There is fishing. Rafting.

but without them horses, it wouldn't be worth it.

thanks Bliss...

damn boone gettin a divorce,,, bummer, he's still involved w/TWI?

The hobbs were fun people, I'm glad i got a chance to know them.

I guess he's still in, but, like his dad..........does his own thing.

"blue sheets''......................you just gave me a nightmare Suda!!!!

I would rather not think about those ghastly devices anymore. Used against God's people. I am all for giving. Just not when its under duress.

Still looking for Andy................

Wallace's are still Cord of Rocky Mountain Region, live in Colorado Springs.

Boone lives in Indiana, getting or got divorced from Andrea (Rhodes) last year.

Hobbs Sr still lives in N. Carolina. Still in, but always bucking the system.

"With my body I contact the physical realm. With my spirit I contact the spiritual realm

and with my soul I contact the intellectual realm". Kenneth Hagin

:unsure:

now that quote just gave me the heebeegeebees

sorry Son of the Master.

I dig some of what you say, and I can tell you have a good heart.

but , I feel the same way about Kenneth Hagin, as I do , VPW or LCM. I RUN~

Lets stick to scripture, and not quotes from false prophets.

The information i got today is that bob & dottie are comming back from europe to run camp gunninson. i was told that gunninson is becoming a way belivers resort for famlies & way classes !!!!

I confirm this info.

Way Family Camps all over again.

Bob hated England anyway. Europe was a bust.

He'll be back in his element.

Looking for him.

Last heard he in Wisconsin or Minnesota and was kicked out by lcm for distributing the abs to his area to cover needs.

He and his wife Sara were in the Corps and worked on staff at the Indiana Campus in the early 90s.

On the other hand, those who CAN be found must work under draconian conditions and incredible amounts

of micromanagement by people with no background in media or entertainment whatsoever.

Is there ANY chance any REAL entertainment could survive such a killing field?

Speaking of............................

This is how it goes........

Rosie sits in the screening room (whatever its called) and analyzes all the hairstyles. Yup , hair styles.

Ever notice they all have the same haircut???

If someone has long hair, it HAS to be pulled back and smooooooothed out.

Can't have them looking like ''individuals'' up there now.

What really saddens me, is their ''job'' should be to lead ''PRAISE AND WORSHIP" to GOD,

NOT in entertaining us.

Too bad for the TWI crowds....they don't get either.

Every time I hear one, I just wanna.................

She's getting married. (Still in and Corps) At least, the last time I checked up on her. I'll see if I can find out.

Here is an example from just this weekend, in stark contrast to your story of the woman who lost her husband.............

My girlfriend from church, her husband too was killed Friday on the way home from work............2 kids, baby on the way...........

Let me just say, that the outpouring of love and support for this friend has me thanking God for being out of the Way!

She has not been left alone for a minute, she has constant meals, childcare, prayers, prayers and more prayers, support, love, and house cleaning.................

constant love.

no condemnation

no guilt

no shunning going on

only L O V E!

Just the way God said to!

My heart aches for those who had to go through a tragedy ALONE, while thinking they weren't loved or worthy to be prayed for or given help, by the very people who claim to love them. Shame shame.....

I just had to get this out.........I have to go to a funeral now and hold my friends hand..................... :(

Bliss:

The point of view prpounded in that poem is just fear motivation, "believe because the alternative is..."what? Death? Hellfire? It's not explicit.

You have a point of view that is just as likely to be true or false as anything else out there; the Muslims can make that same "what if you're wrong" speech too.

Sorry Oak, can't find anything about fear or hellfire in that song.

I think you skipped the chorus. It's about love.

If you really read it, you would see that it also describes the ''what if you are right" side too!

Wish you could hear it "in the original''.

As my manner is, I will leave this thread with a song.

It about sums up what I was trying to say.

Peace.

"WHAT IF......" by Nicole Nordeman

What if you're right?

And he was just another nice guy

What if you're right?

What if it's true?

They say the cross will only make a fool of you

And what if it's true?

What if he takes his place in history

With all the prophets and the kings

Who taught us love and came in peace

But then the story ends

What then?

(chorus)

But what if you're wrong?

What if there's more?

What if there's hope you never dreamed of hoping for?

What if you jump?

And just close your eyes?

What if the arms that catch you, catch you by surprise?

What if He's more than enough?

What if it's love?

What if you dig

Way down deeper than your simple-minded friends

What if you dig?

What if you find

A thousand more unanswered questions down inside

That's all you find?

What if you pick apart the logic

And begin to poke the holes

What if the crown of thorns is no more

Than folklore that must be told and retold?

You've been running as fast as you can

You've been looking for a place you can land for so long

But what if you're wrong?

Bliss:

I don't offend easily, but in my caped avenger alter-ego I fight illogic wherever I find it :blink:

Anyway, maybe my omelet cooking friend Sushi (the man made breakfast for me once...I still haven't had its equal ) was speaking tongue-in-cheek.

Okay now, this is a serious question:

What does "caring about my soul" mean? It seems to indicate that my current beliefs put my soul in some kind of danger. Can you clarify for me?

I wasn't trying to offend, I was trying to be funny, and I have gathered your humor over the posts for a while, so I am glad you are tough...............

As for omelets, I like veggie..............though, I am not convinced Sushi was T and Cing it the same way I was. But, who am I to judge his intent? I love being called..............what did you say???? Self righteous and condescending?? But, I could be wrong.

Your soul? well, that's my ''Christian'' term for the eternal part of you. but you knew that. You also know, that I said ""IF"" in bold.

meaning IF I am right about my beliefs...............and you are not......................then..........................

I never said, YOUR belief system IS in a dangerous system.............only based on my beliefs.....it could be.

but, again, i shouldn't have to clarify. Most of us here all come from at least the basic ''I believe (used to believe) in God mindset.

That said, I still care.

Probably no better or worse than your 'God' does.

This is a case in point of what I truly love about SOME 'Christians'. From my perspective, they seem to think they have ALL the answers (Of course, I could be wrong. It's been a while ). BUUT, if you have the audacity to not believe as they do, they can be as condescending as they want (since you're just a walking around carcass).

On top of that, should you challenge THEIR beliefs, you're 'of the devil' (does it get a little cool in that ivory tower, Bliss?), and they can walk away with that sweet air of self righteous into the sunset.

Ouch Sushi........ :blink:

What was meant ''tongue n cheek'' in response to OAK, didn't stop you from your ''self righteous dig'' into my intent.

I don't judge Oak if he beliefs nothing, in a goddess, a bug, a toad, or Jesus...........he does have a right to believe whatever he wants... but I do ''care'' about his ''soul'' IF what I believe is right. That is just the truth of the matter. I care.

Right now, we won't agree to know what that truth is.

But for you to read INTO my intent with your snide comments of judgement and arrogance, I do take offense.

The number one thing I left behind with the Way, was just that!

I am anything but an arrogant ''Christian''. But as a believer in Christ , I sometimes have to defend my position if I am called to do so. Don't you? Isn't that what this forum is for?

Why is it that NON-Christians like to scream at the ''Christians'' opinions all the time with their judgement???

This is getting a little ridiculous.

i could ask a million questions about the things you wrote, bliss, but let's just start with this one sentence.

it seems to me that you make these massive leaps of "logic" and phrase them as though they were statements of simple fact. how does "i then know he can do whatever he wants" follow "since i believe there is God?" aren't you making a pile of assumptions to get from one statement to the other?

the same with the next part. how does it follow that god can do WHATEVER HE WANTS so he wouldn't leave us without a witness? i don't see any logically progression here. not a lick. they're all just assumptions that you've decided are true--which is your business--but they're no more logically sound than "since i believe in radio, i know that concrete is my friend, and therefore, chickens are tasty and glum."

can you fill in the blanks for me?

I thought this was the DOCTRINAL SECTION?????................which to me, implies we discuss doctrine................

You were IN TWI Sprawled Out. I don't adhere to their doctrines, although I am still ''Christian''.

I am sure you know where I am coming from.

And you are right...It is my business what I decide is true.

You too. Isn't that cool?

Unless you want to truly discuss the scriptures, these kind of questions really have no benefit to either of us........except maybe someones ego........

so...........I really don't have any ''blanks'' to fill in for ya.

peace

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh the beauty of man's RELIGION!

Thank GOD I just believe in HIM and NOT the doctrines of men and devils.

whew..........

You know, I couldn't figure why all this hubbub over my post until I went back and followed the trail.....................

I was NOT responding to Greasy's first post. The ''is there a God? Answer: NO" post.

I was responding to Doowaps history lesson.

The people commiting evils, all in the name of God. This is why I said what I said.

I did not say ''that all ya'll believe doctrines of men or devils!!!!".

Geez.

Thankful I just believe in God and not man's words or religious doctrines that lead to all that UN goldly stuff (killing, torturing.....)

sorry if it through any of you off......................ya you OAK................... .

Guess I shoulda used the """"""" button the first time.

ahhh Dearest Oakspeak,

What do you believe in Oak?

What info does your goddess have for us today?

I've been to the unknown...................it is not a good place for me to be.

I showed you mine, now you show me yours..................

side note.............all the apostles were freaked out after the cruxifiction.

Historically speaking now.

but, They didn't stay that way. Why?

(On pain of death, if something was a LIE, or you made it up, would you die for it. Would you? NO of course not........neither would any man! )

His resurrection, changed them. These men, saw Jesus. They saw with their own eyes his resurrected body. That is why they were so bold, so different than just 3 days prior.

Nobody would die for a lie.

Yes, so we have many people dying for their causes all the time. But, it's all about faith in something. I don't invalidate any of their experiences or perspectives. But somebody's got to be wrong.

Nobody (Muslims, Hindu, Goddesses, Satanist, Buddha, whatever) had a savior raised from the dead. That is really the only way to prove the validity of Christianity itself. (the difference). Everthing else, well, is debatable.

If they(the apostles) honestly ''made up the story of Jesus resurrecting from the dead'' and been arrested and tortured they would've caved in.

The apostles, all martyred:beheaded, disembowled, exiled, hung, cruxified upsidedown..........died for what they

SAWfirst and Believed.

I never saw, I just have faith. You are right, I believe the bible, therefore, have incidents to back it up. Can I prove it to your satisfaction? NO.

blessed are they that believe.....................then see.

So, I believe.

and one day,

I (we) will see.

Bliss,

But how do you determine what are true doctrines? The middle ages had the Pope and <B>*we*</B> all had "Dr" Victor Paul Wierwille to teach us how to tell what was truth. So who determines for you what is spiritually true? Yourself? But you aren't fluent in Koine Greek or Estrangelo Aramaic are you? You are using SOME other sources to determine your beliefs, aren't you? Or are you just guessing or wishing what you would LIKE to be true, maybe?

Then how do you know that what you are currently guessing or professing isn't "The doctrines of men and devils."??

<center>sudo</center>

Good questions Sudo! They are also ''loaded'' questions . But, you know this.

So, I will humor you. For me, it starts with belief.

I believe in GOD. Not ''a god'' , but GOD ALMIGHTY.

Why? Because He manifests HIMSELF in everything ........................so..I just do. Call it gut, faith, intuition, whatever.....I believe ( it's written in my heart.)

........"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, evern his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21....because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22....professing themselves to be wise, they became fools."

No man can take that away from me. Not because this passage tells me so, it only proves my belief. I don't need to know Greek or Hebrew to believe either.

So, since I believe there is GOD, I then know that HE CAN DO ANYTHING HE WANTS, and therefore, would NOT leave us without witness.

Therefore, I DO believe HIS Word. Is it literal/figurative? I believe in both. That holy men spoke, moved by the Holy Spirit.

That is why 2 Peter 1:20 (so nicely misinterpreted by the Way, thankyou), is key to this understanding........but you know that. (it is the prophets that didn't use ''their own'' interpretation. Not us trying to figure out the meaning)

I believe this also.

So, therefore, my comments will always reflect this tone, that I , believe.

Do I realize and believe that men have messed up / contaminated/ interpreted/ sinned/ dishonoured/ His Word to the utmost?

Carried out disgusting things all in the name of God?

Certainly.

That doesn't deter me from believing He is.

I've studied all the ways/methods/arguments over ''how we got the bible''. So? Like I said, God is in charge, nor is He stupid.

We have what we have.

Use a multitued of resources. Who cares? I could study for 200 years and not know it all. I rest in the fact that He just wants me to believe in Him, and have a relationship with Him, with or without His Word.

Noah didn't have a written law or doctrine. Yet, he had a relationship with the Lord.

To me that is the key. All else is dessert. Actually having a written standard so that we may know our God more intimately and our enemy to me is a good thing. Does it in its final form have errors? YUP! Is it perfect this way? NOPE.

But, again, I rest in what my Lord said in John 14:26 "But the Comforter, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, HE shall teach you all things................"

No man/religion/creed/doctrine can fill this position. All my OPINION of course.........

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh the beauty of man's RELIGION!

Thank GOD I just believe in HIM and NOT the doctrines of men and devils.

whew..........

"It's your birthday,it's your birthday........oooahhh ooooahhhh"

luv

Welcome Another Spot!!!! So glad you are here and on the road to recovery. Some of us have been out a lot longer, some shorter and still have waybrain troubles! NO WORRIES!

All I can do for you is #1 pray for you.

and #2 tell you what "I" did.

I have only been out 2 years. And for the first few months it was awful, like you said, no direction........I learned about the Way and all the evils by coming here to GS, then told our fellowship, sianara! Never looked back.

But, with that came many unanswered questions and doubts.

So, I got on my knees. Basically asked God to show me where to go and what to do. He did.

Now,I am spiritually the happiest I have ever been.

So, if you have a heart for the Lord, which it sounds like you do. Then, go to Him. (ASK HIM, like Johniam said).

I had to let all waybrain fall to the ''wayside'' and start over.

Going to church is scary.

But only when you measure everything said by the Way stick!

I tried not to do it. Allowed God to talk to me in the place I was. Not every Church is the same. So, He may tell me to leave the one, and go to another.

my fav verse is Prov 3~ " TRUST in the Lord with all your heart.................Lean not on YOUR own understanding...................in

ALL YOUR ways acknowledge HIM...........................HE WILL DIRECT YOUR PATHS."

It was the anthem to my Way exit.

I can't give biz advise except what Vickles suggested.

If you are letting God lead you though, HE may tell you to get out of that biz............who knows?

We are here if you need us.

One thing I know for sure is when you face Jesus Christ at the judgements, it ain't gonna matter two hoots

who your mama was,

who your daddy was,

who your boss was,

who your best friends were,

who your Church/or Cult you ''hung'' with was...................

You face Him A L O N E !!!!

Just you and Him baby, just you and Him. (the relationship)

That is what matters.

love it :)

:o