skyrider

"So, looking back.....what do I see?.......the 1970 growth spurt in twi was all manufactured."

More specifically...... it is my contention that, along with the corps indoctrination camps...er, campuses, the mass-herding at big events: 1) PFAL '77, 2) Advanced Class '79, 3) Living Victoriously (1982), and 4) Sound Out '84 were catalysts for the mass formation psychosis in twi.

Sure, there was some genuine outreach efforts and God-inspired actions/activity by many individuals, twigs, branches or even areas......but from centralized-hq, NOPE.  Looking back, I don't think the herd-fests (i.e. big events) moved the needle in God's direction one bit.

"I contend that wierwille's "career accomplishments" had 3 segments:

1. 16 years on church payroll.....in Payne and Van Wert, Ohio [1941-1957]
2. 14 years struggling to build a following and pay the bills  [1958-1972]
3. 10 years of exceeding growth, prosperity and adulation [1972-1982]

It wasn't until March 1972.....when wierwille swooped in and grabbed Doop's and Hefner's ministry work......that transformed twi into a youth movement.  Mrs. Wierwille's book documents the struggles and challenges.  Even people who sat in wierwille's live classes in 1961, 1962, 1963, etc......did NOT stick.  They sat thru his class, but then went back to their church.  Time and again, wierwille pleads in his mailing list to stay faithful to his ministry and TITHE WEEKLY.  Even when pfal was filmed in 1967, wierwille was struggling mightily to stay ahead of the bills for the studio, lighting, furniture.

Some regard "The Red Thread" as one of wierwille's best teachings......yet, it was plagiarized from Rev. Oral Roberts.  Was wierwille so spiritually bankrupt that even at the tail end of his ministry years he still had to plagiarize from others?  Yep.

Stolen teachings.  Stolen classes. Stolen glory."

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Twi-gatekeepers CLAIM that wierwille's ministry (i.e. The Way, Inc.) started in October 1942.........yeah, we've all heard the absurd Youth Chimes Caravan fabricated starting point.  At the time, wierwille was entrenched in the denominational church structure and had no inkling of a class-based ministry that would evolve from Leonard's class in 1953.  Narcissists can't give credit to others where credit is due.  BUT....30 years later, wierwille was STILL STRUGGLING to gain a following!!!  How can this be?  Why does there have to be subversion and coercion?  As these events were told to some of us years ago who'd never heard them, victor and Del Duncan (??) barge into Doop's and Hefner's meetings mid-stride in a coup-like takeover ousting these men from their positions.  Few people know these dirty tricks from vpw.....(and where is DWBH to set the facts straight  ). 

Wierwille had made an agreement with Doop and Hefner:

1. Send 15% abundant sharing to headquarters each month.
2. You keep 85% of these contributions in your area/state for operation expenses.

Since this thread is about Twi-gatekeepers no longer able to contain the secrets......Jim Doop's last post is here for all to see.

• Originally posted by jimdoop:

  Since it's my birthday, I would like to make a brief note. I turned 68 today- the same age as Victor when he passed away. I made my stand against him when he went back on his word and changed what he had taught me and many others. THAT was when the love and grace went out of his ministry. He set himself as the MAN OF GOD, and stopped acknowledging other men of God's contributions to his spiritual development.

  I saw this coming in 1969. 1971 was when I heard his plan-how he was going to take over the states rights of all the fellowships, and he was going to control all of the states and their MONEY.

  (That is, was, and always will be the root of ALL evil.) I was receiving more money into THE WAY WEST then he was at headquarters. The agreement was that I-"THE WAY WEST" would send H.Q. 15% each month, for abundant sharing each month. I did this every month. I kept my word.

  I had spent 15 years in the "real world", and had learned enough to know that people lie, cheat, and steal. Victor was so sincere that I gave him a chance to prove himself. I believe that is what most of us did. As things worked out, he failed. His word wasn't any good. He taught one thing and did another.

  All of are hearts have been broken-but not by God. His Word is always faithful. His Word is always truth. His promises work just as well today as they always have for getting the rent or house payment paid. Please all of you keep your brain and heart on God's Word. He loves us and will always bring us to victory. Filled with the power of the HOLY SPIRIT. we THE BELIEVERS, have been given enormous power in this age of DARKNESS. Be prepared. LOVE GOD AND YOUR FAMILY OF GOD.

  Thanks for putting up with me, and I hope you heard my message. We cannot expect any help from anyone other then from GOD. If you know of anything better, please contact me, .. at jddpp@yahoo.com

  Serving Him,

  Jimmy Doop.

  2005, September 8th.

.

"So, looking back.....what do I see?.......the 1970 growth spurt in twi was all manufactured."

What else do I see? 

• Hyperbolic titles were attributed to vpw and his inner circle of enablers
• Histrionics were part and parcel to demonizing all who left twi

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Clearly, vpw was enamored with titles......it fed his narcissistic personality disorder.  As an ordained minister, Payne and Van Wert, Ohio victor was a reverend to his congregations.  In denominational circles, this designation was proper.....but when wierwille sought a doctorate in 1948 from a degree-mill outfit in Colorado (Pikes Peak Seminary in Manitou Springs, CO) his climb to this narcissistic summit was underway.  Did the Van Wert congregation need a "Dr. Wierwille" more than they needed a Rev. Wierwille to pastor their flock?  LOL

After stealing B.G. Leonard's class in 1953, wierwille began teaching this class in the Van Wert Church basement.  For nearly 14 years, wierwille traveled from city to city teaching this foundational class.  So, with the 1967 filming of pfal.....wierwille signed off by saying, "....just write The Teacher."  Add another 4-7 years (1971)....and wierwille is "The man of God."  And, at big events he was introduced as the Founding President of The Way International (which he was.... albeit, its "founding" had a stolen class in the secret closet).  Add another 9-11 years (1981).....and wierwille notched up to "Father in the Word."

• So, if you took pfal.....wierwille "fathered you in the Word?"  LOL

Same hyperbole was dealt to those who left twi.  Most especially, these slanders were reserved for way corps leaders.  Behind closed doors, the histrionics elevated rapidly on a scale of 1-10.  If the corps person was a major player....(region guy, trunk leader, bodyguard or department coordinator).... then the fireworks began!!  Wierwille's favorite detested slander was "cop-out."  When this confrontation in the heat of the moment was witnessed by others, wierwille was inject the "possessed" label.....and name the "spirit" (i.e. lying spirit, deceiving spirit).  Notably, ANYONE who was abandoning wierwille's ministry was being "deceived by a spirit."

No big-name corps leader was allowed to walk away from twi without slander.....without character assassination.

Martindale labeled Chris Geer with having 6 (SIX) daimon spirits....the big guys, the commanding spirits over others.  In those Galatian teachings, later renamed the Leadership Tapes.....lcm went thru the list of these daimon spirits, one-by-one.  

• Those who opposed "dr. wierwille" had spirits, or spiritual influence
• Corps that abandoned twi were cop-outs, possessed
• Major church denominational leaders were "Seed Men"
• Geer, Lynn, Shroyer, others......deceiving spirits, etc.
• Generic slanders on corps......he/she was "worldly"
• If you don't heed instruction, God won't spit in your direction
• Grease spots by midnight

Perhaps, someone could refresh my memory on "grease spots by midnight".......IIRC, it came into twi's lexicon around 1995 (when many decided to exit twi after martindale/reynolds claimed that *the word was over the world.*)  Seemingly, it contained fear hysteria......if you leave twi, then you are OUTSIDE the protection of God's Household.  Something of that nature, right?  

• Grease spot by midnight = road kill

Hyperbolic attributes to Vic, Harry, Ermal, Dotsie, Dorothy, Rhoda, George Jess, Mal George, etc.

Histrionics leveled at ALL those leaders and lieutenants who abandoned wierwille and twi.

Cult Indoctrination 101

.

"Whatever you call this conditioning and controlling technique.......1) Spiritual Abuse, 2) Total Thought Reform (Lifton book), 3) Pavlov's Dog Conditioning, 4) Cult Indoctrination, 5) Dark Persuasion, or 6) Mass Formation ..... the result was the same."

• Studies suggest that mass formation follows a general distribution:

• 30% are brainwashed, hypnotized, indoctrinated by the group narrative
• 40% in the middle are persuadable and may follow if no worthy alternative is perceived
• 30% fight against the narrative.

~~~~~~~~~~~

Could it be that all that *1970's growth and prosperity in twi* was Mass Formation Psychosis?  The youth were targeted, because their minds (until age 25) are not yet equipped with critical thinking analysis skills.  Seemingly, wierwille and his lieutenants installed "leaders" ages 26-32 over us 20 year olds......to keep marching us forward!!  The 30% highly indoctrinated (or opportunistic) leaders amongst us kept the peer pressure on the middle 40% followers.  Then, there were a percentage (30%?) of wait-just-a-dad-gum-minute-that's-not-right group.

Anyone who was paying attention knows that each year after corps graduation......dozens of their fellow-corps slipped away and didn't attend the next year's rock of ages.  Yet, the top-tier 30% kept marching forward.  Mass Formation Psychosis.  The collective mass of energized youth committed to get "The Word over the world."  Each stage of this psychosis was elevated to another higher stage.  The only way mass formation psychosis works is by consistently moving to another stage.....or, by moving the goal posts.

During the martindale era.....when "word over the world" was no longer viable, suddenly we were to enter The Prevailing Word stage of growth.  Adding to this mass formation, we were to be Living Sanctified (no more old wineskins, no more pfal material).  By 1996 or so, we were to be "Prevailing:  Crossing the Bridge into the Promised Land."  Each year.....another manufactured goal to achieve.

So, looking back.....what do I see?.......the 1970 growth spurt in twi was all manufactured.

.

Although gatekeepers might still try to put wierwille back on a pedestal......he was a deeply flawed, narcissistic opportunist.  All of the incremental steps of his plagiarist past were largely revealed by Mrs. Wierwille's book, Born Again to Serve.

Unwittingly, this 1996 book was written to elevate vpw's legacy did the opposite.  

This was an unforced error by the Indoctrination Central Command at HQ.  

~~~~~~~~~

Long gone are the days when wierwille could hide behind the mask of revisionist history.  Anyone who wants to know details, timelines, and hard-hitting facts can research the past.  Mrs. Wierwille's book, Born Again to Serve, gives us plenty to dispel the myths.

• Tragedy, sadness and death at the wierwille farm [p.12]
• Vpw disliked conformity of riding school bus....got a motorcycle in high school [p.16]
• The wierwilles married in secret to bypass seminary code regulations [p.28]
• On July 6, 1941....vpw installed as minister for St. Jacob's Evangelical and Reformed Church in Payne, Ohio [p.33]
• In June 1944, wierwilles move to Van Wert, Ohio....bigger church, St. Peter's Evangelical and Reformed Church [p.45]
• Wierwille attends E. Stanley Jones Ashram in North Carolina....in July 1944 [p.48]
• On July 28, 1948....wierwille gets "doctorate" from degree-mill Pikes Peak Seminary in Manitou Springs, Colorado [p.67]
• In February 1953....vpw sits thru B.G. Leonard's class "The Gifts of the Spirit" in Calgary, Alberta [p.91]
• Etc. etc......
• Wierwilles leave the denominational church in August 1957 [p.216]
• On December 19, 1957.....wierwilles run first meeting of "The Way, Inc." [p.219]

Back in the 70's.......wierwille bloviated over his calling, accomplishments, credentials, etc. but a thorough study shows the real picture.  Incrementally and strategically, wierwille was an opportunist.  He utilized plagiarism, a degree-mill seminary, and a stolen class to gain a small portion of accreditation. Yet, even then.......adults were not easily fooled by these tactics.  Thus, wierwille's target was the youth.  Once off the church payroll, wierwille struggled immensely for nearly 15 years [1957-1972] to garner a following.  

I contend that wierwille's "career accomplishments" had 3 segments:

1. 16 years on church payroll.....in Payne and Van Wert, Ohio [1941-1957]
2. 14 years struggling to build a following and pay the bills  [1958-1972]
3. 10 years of exceeding growth, prosperity and adulation [1972-1982]

It wasn't until March 1972.....when wierwille swooped in and grabbed Doop's and Hefner's ministry work......that transformed twi into a youth movement.  Mrs. Wierwille's book documents the struggles and challenges.  Even people who sat in wierwille's live classes in 1961, 1962, 1963, etc......did NOT stick.  They sat thru his class, but then went back to their church.  Time and again, wierwille pleads in his mailing list to stay faithful to his ministry and TITHE WEEKLY.  Even when pfal was filmed in 1967, wierwille was struggling mightily to stay ahead of the bills for the studio, lighting, furniture.

Some regard "The Red Thread" as one of wierwille's best teachings......yet, it was plagiarized from Rev. Oral Roberts.  Was wierwille so spiritually bankrupt that even at the tail end of his ministry years he still had to plagiarize from others?  Yep.

Stolen teachings.  Stolen classes. Stolen glory.

So, really......only about 10 years of a thriving ministry until wierwille retired in October 1982 and handed the reins over to Martindale.  When wierwille stepped off-stage.....the power conflicts began in earnest.  Subtle at first.....but nonetheless, they were there.  The top-tier leaders were staking their claims to their regions.  Geer was in Europe.  Former corps coordinators had gained measurable influence.  Wierwille died and twi splintered a hundred ways.

Research the facts.......stop the indoctrination.

.

5 hours ago, DogLover said:

In the interview VPW had with Elena Whiteside while she was writing a book about The Way (THE WAY LIVING IN LOVE), he told in detail (and she wrote) about God speaking to him audibly. That book was written in the early 1970s.

Thanks DogLover.....

This link details vpw's claims in Mrs. Wierwille's book, Born Again to Serve..... Black Snowstorm

p. 42 & 43

After all this activity and reaching out to learn more, I must know to satisy my inner yearning. And so I stood in my newly rented office and prayed to the Father. "Father, teach me the Word, teach me the Word." He told me as plain as day that if I would study the Word, He would teach me the Word like He had not been able to teach it to anybody since the first century. And, of course, at that time I thought, "Now that's a dandy. Boy, if I learned this Word of God, everybody will listen to me. The whole church will be blessed; my denomination will grow by leaps and bounds because we'll have the Word of God." And I thought that was terrrific. But during the process of that revelation, I said, "Father, how will I know that this is You and that You'll really teach it to me? Because I had worked the Word in commentaries and the rest of it, and I couldn't understand it, couldn't get it to fit.

And the sun was shining brightly. It was in the fall of the year. Gorgeous. There wasn't a cloud in the sky. And just on the inside of me it seemed to say, "Well, just say to the Father, "Well, if it'll just snow right now, you'll just know that this is God talking to you.'" Cause you see. I'd never had much experience with God's talking to me. And this business of His saying to me, just as audibly as I am speaking to you, that He'd teach me the Word if I'd teach it, sort of shook me. I'd been expecting to hear from heaven for a long time, but I hadn't heard that way before. Oh, my ears were perhaps clogged up. Since that time I've heard a lot of things from Him.

And I said, "Lord, to know that this is true, I'd like to see it snow." And I opened my eyes, and it was pitch-black, almost pitch-black outside, and the snow was falling so thick. I have never seen it fall that thick since that day.

And I sat in that little office, and I cried like a baby. Because I guess it was about my time to cry because I'd grown up but I didn't know the Word. And from that day on since He promised He'd teach me the Word, I have tried with all my heart to learn this Word.

.

13 hours ago, Rocky said:

So, how did Wierwille gain control over his followers (to the extent he may have had control)? Can you say "mark and avoid?" The entire basis of the cult was the sense of belonging. 

But I digress.

This all figures into the concept of Dark Persuasion, which accounts for the growth of twi in the 1970s. Of course, after Wierwille's demise, the mystique began to fade. But with the advent of the interwebs, and Waydale, it was increasingly difficult for twi to maintain it's allure in the US and Europe. Is it any wonder why whatever "growth" twi has had since Martindale was deposed from the throne has been in places where the reach of the GSC is attenuated because of limited internet reach?
 

 

"So, how did Wierwille gain control over his followers....."

That continues to be an interesting question.  From 1958-1966, when wierwille was traveling from city to city, teaching pfal classes live (in-person)......most everyone after finishing this class went back to their home-church.  The percentage of people who dropped their associations and support system to follow wierwille's ministry were miniscule.  Through all of his failures, wierwille adapted:

• When technology advanced, wierwille got pfal filmed on 16mm (1967)
• Invited youth to come and stay at Summer School Camps (longer, extended access)
• Built a system of hierarchy.....peers leading novice peers
• Target the youth.  Camps, music, night owls, rock of ages festivals.
• First corps training was a failure.  "Zero Corps."
• More adjustments.  Corps training at HQ.

Whatever you call this conditioning and controlling technique.......1) Spiritual Abuse, 2) Total Thought Reform (Lifton book), 3) Pavlov's Dog Conditioning, 4) Cult Indoctrination, 5) Dark Persuasion, or 6) Mass Formation ..... the result was the same.  

Much like hypnosis......the focus was on one thing for an extended time!!  Focus on pfal material.....over and over and over again.  Sit thru this class again and again.  Become class instructor and lead others thru this process.  Go WOW..... run pfal classes.  Go corps.... and first 6 weeks were pfal material.

Then, isolated from society as a whole and indoctrinated .... the corps objective was to FOCUS on wierwille, the cult leader.  Unbridled adulation of wierwille on corps campuses and at hq.  The corps graduates were then sent forth to help anchor this mass formation hypnosis:  Wierwille was THE man of God.  No matter how many times, or ways GSC posters dismantle the absurdity of twi's claim of victor paul wierwille as The Teacher, The Man of God, Father in the Word, or "Dr. Wierwille".......the hypnotic trance of hundreds (thousands?) is not shaken.  THAT is some powerful voodoo that many of us experienced.  

.

"When did twi's stranglehold on wierwille's mog-status, impact and legacy lose its grip?

1. Did the stranglehold cease when many clergy/corps dissented and exited in late '70s or early '80s?
2. Did the stranglehold cease when wierwille died in May 1985?
3. Did the stranglehold cease when geer read "The Patriarch" paper at corps week, 1986?
4. Did the stranglehold cease when lynn and others wrote that 37-page proclamation?
5. Did the stranglehold cease with an exodus of a reported 80% of corps leadership?
6. Did the stranglehold cease when dozens of splinter groups started preaching "the truth?"
7. When did the stranglehold cease?

Well......imo, the stranglehold ceased when twi-gatekeepers could NO LONGER control the message or contain the secrets.  The leaders (cough, cough) who exited en masse after "the poop paper propaganda" did very little to release the wierwille-the-man-of-God vise grip.  The geer camp kept beating the same drum.  The lynn camp did better.....but just seemed to sidestep the wierwille doctrine/legacy in many ways.  What about the finn3gan camp?  The summ3rville camp?  Others?  The shr0yer camp seemed to embrace the wierwille doctrine more closely.....of which, the two younger wierwille kids hitched a ride to keep the embers glowing?

The stranglehold was BROKEN when Waydale in April 1999 took the fight directly at Martindale and twi.  The full onslaught of punches caught martindale/twi off guard and in a defensive posture.  Pa-ul All3n hit them with an uppercut that left them staggering to find the ropes.  From a position of husband-rage and legal strength, this man went on a relentless, 18-hours a day, flurry of punches that staggered the corporate "giant."  Month after month, the scandalous secrets poured forth on Waydale.  Twi mandated that their followers stay off the internet and, it didn't take long before martindale had to publically admit to this "consensual affair."  Twi knew that Waydale was, indeed, a formidable foe.

.....snip

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

After the *1986 Corps Exodus* ...... lots of those EX-corps coordinators went forth to start splinter groups and initiate the SAME CLASSES AND PATTERNS that they learned from wierwille.

After the *2016 Corps Exodus* ...... four of those EX-corps coordinators went forth to start splinter groups and initiate the SAME CLASSES AND PATTERNS that they learned from wierwille.

See the pattern?  

That's why Waydale/GSC has been INVALUABLE to setting the captives free.  

.

37 minutes ago, WordWolf said:

"The class was NOT enough.  Wierwille fabricated a story wherein God's audible voice told him to "teach the Word." "

Naturally, when you took the actual class, the biggest claim he made in it is that this is the field to which he had dedicated his life.  There's no mention of God talking to him audibly, no snow job, nothing.   People taking pfal are still able to see the snare at that point, so he hid the trap better until later when people were lulled into a sense of security.

Thanks WordWolf.....yep, no mention in pfal of "God talking to him audibly."

Wierwille slips it in the backdoor ...... thru the corps indoctrination program. 

He tells (fabricates this story out of whole cloth) this contrived story to the corps....something that he didn't even tell his wife the day it (supposedly) happened (cough, cough).  Then, telling it decades later....to *notch his greatness on a higher peg* for unbridled adulation from his loyalist corps and followers.  Yeah, right.  The story was told in different versions..... wierwille was lying and couldn't keep his own "facts" straight.  

Wierwille was a man of many secrets.  And thus, plenty of things needed hidden or guarded from public view.

Not only did he build a ministry (cough, cough) based on lies.....he strategically implemented a series of tactics through the years to cover his tracks. 

• The foundational class and class-based ministry work was B.G. Leonard.
• Wierwille utilized cunning strategy to distance himself from all his plagiarized sources.
• The class was NOT enough.  Wierwille fabricated a story wherein God's audible voice told him to "teach the Word."
• Preemptive strikes were inserted in pfal to keep students from questioning wierwille's integrity or doctrine.
• The corps training was an indoctrination program.....isolation, intimidation, immersion, indoctrination, idolization.
• Corps were taught the "lockbox theorem"...... sworn to keep things (seductive, sordid, scandalous) secret.
• Salted vows to wierwille's ministry .... for the rest of your life.  No.  Matter.  What.
• Corps coordinators were the "salt blocks" of the salted..... knowing of wierwille's / martindale's sexual predation.
• Gatekeepers have ALWAYS BEEN NEEDED...... wierwille was a man of many secrets.

Anyone and everyone who had ever tried to confront wierwille was quickly sniffed out as a "spiritual enemy."  The status of the individual was the determining factor on which method to use.  In the case of the *great theologian on the other side of the English Channel* (in pfal)......why, wierwille wouldn't waste his time trying to discuss (debate) the guy.  Ole wierwille "had forgotten more of the word that that guy ever knew."  Dismissed....swatted away (just like that).  B.G. Leonard had lots right, but his written communication skills were awful (in other words, not qualified to lead others).  And, those spiritual leaders at that Tulsa Convention were "great men".....but they couldn't lead wierwille into speaking in tongues.  See. The.  Pattern. ??

At age 51, when wierwille filmed pfal..... he had learned how to be cunning and crafty.  Wierwille was a plagiarist and a phony.  He had to have enablers and gatekeepers to protect him.  Men with genuine ministries do NOT need gatekeepers (1. a person or persons in charge to control passage through it; 2. any person or thing that controls access or otherwise regulates).

Keeping the Secrets:  How many in the inner sanctum knew the secrets?  How many categories of secrets are there?  1) History of "The False Teacher" (he was a plagiarist, thru and thru), 2) Bloviated India Mission Trip (Dr. I.S. Williams was host and opened all the doors, wierwille spoke for 15-20 minutes at Jain Convention, no major results from this ego-trip), 3) Wierwille's sexual predation (how many enablers knew? -- trustees? wives? corps coordinators, bodyguards? procurers? harem? seductresses? etc?), 4) Wierwille was an alcoholic.....heavy drinker, 5) Wierwille was a misogynist....even makes a couple of derogatory remarks towards women in pfal, 6) Wierwille was a striker and a bully.... which disqualified him [I Timothy 3], 7) Wierwille wasn't a "research guy"..... Walter Cummins and twi's research team were penned in by pfal-confinements, 8) Secrets Etcetera.....in other words, wierwille was NOT "the" (or "a") man of God that The Way International claimed he was.  

• Secrets throughout his life.
• Secrets to this day.

Yet, twi made a bone-headed mistake.  They allowed Mrs. Wierwille to write Born Again to Serve.....and she gave a detailed history of ALL THE MEN WHO TAUGHT WIERWILLE and were instrumental in his growth.  Unwittingly, she unveiled a swath of secrets.  

Years ago, I delved into this topic.....Twi-Gatekeepers ended with Waydale/GSC.

With the internet, twi will NEVER be the same.  Lots and lots of secrets are exposed for all to see.  The gatekeepers cannot control the information.  Splinter groups, led by complicit corps coordinators, cannot cover the tracks of a false teacher (trying to peddle his wares).  The corrupt gatekeepers would like to CONTROL THE ACCESS OF THIS INFORMATION......but they can't.  

Corrupt gatekeepers are hirelings.....wanting to fleece the sheep some more.  

.

6 hours ago, chockfull said:

Sky my brother your story in all of its gory detail including even the corps kidnapping have helped me in my recovery more than words can express.  Thank you so much.

Charlene your book was pivotal in my understanding and recovery.

I think my personal story comes out in stages like my recovery.  I have zero motivation for a brain dump.  Sorry I don’t think I can face it end to end even after more than a decade.  That’s just me.  I do what I can.

Look the Way has been about isolating and controlling young minds for 4 generations.  Once people hit 35 and start having kids they become a liability to the Ways method of thinking.  Harder to isolate and control.  Harder to force to move for their political reasons.  Harder to tell where to work, how to not have a mortgage.

How do I view you all at GS?  You are part of my church.  But I might be reading Soren Kirkegards philosophical writings as opposed to spewed vomit from a cult leader that consists of 90% narcissistic personality disorder comments that add zero value and make no sense.

I am cool with that.  And my other support systems, both Christian and secular.  They are also kind of my church.

Peace spotters.  Sky thanks for enduring the insanity and for the learning you gained from it to help us.

 

Thanks chockfull.

As we embark on another new year......once again, so thankful the doors of GSC are still open.

.

On 12/18/2021 at 8:44 AM, skyrider said:

Although many are reluctant to go into length and depth on their story......older threads contain snippets.  

........

 

Here is another insightful snippet of one's story ....  How TWI disarmed me

Quote

PatAnswer quote:

I've been a lurker here for years.

This is my first post.

This site has helped me tremendously to unravel most of the wrong teaching and (im)practical application of it that I received in TWI. I've got a ways to go yet but am very thankful for the progress I've made so far.

Now that I am somewhat clear in my thinking about who and what TWI is I've tried to go back and figure out how I fell for all of this. What was I thinking? Or, better yet, why was I not thinking?

In the "College Degrees and The Way" thread Twinky said "They stole my critical thinking ability". This is what I think happened to me. But rather than say someone stole it, I realize that I relinquished it, I set it down. Like getting someone to lay their weapon down they disarmed me. In retrospect (and for future application) I ask, why did I let them?

I suppose there were some things that softened me up first. I was introduced to TWI by a longtime friend, someone who was not at all the religious type. Their life seemed changed for the better. (by the way: they no longer "stand" in TWI) Then all the people that I met that were associated with TWI seemed so loving, caring. And they all attributed their loving actions to TWI and specifically PFAL. So I took it.

And I heard Wierwille say how God had told him that He'd teach him the word like it hadn't been known since the first century if he'd teach it to others. I had never heard anyone make such a claim but I considered it, thought it might be possible. And in PFAL I heard things taught differently than I had been taught in my christian upbringing and I considered it, it made some sense.

But what I think really got me to drop my critical thinking was the section on "no private interpretation" or one's own letting loose. The example given of Maggie standing up and saying "well I think it means..." followed by Johnny saying "well I think it means...." reminded me of bible discussions that I had heard growing up, people's opinions. I didn't want more opinions. The bible was to interpret itself. Some easy sections were cited where the text clearly said what the answer was (the seven churches are..., the seven candle sticks are....). Made sense to me. Why guess?

This was quickly followed up with the record of Eve's demise for considering an alternative to what God said, adding a word, changing a word, deleting a word, etc. And it all starts with considering "Did God really say?". Look how easy it was for her to get into trouble. I wasn't going to be like her was I?

So to keep myself out of this damnation I wouldn't allow myself to consider that what I was being taught was wrong. I dropped my critical thinking and believed what I was being taught. I was being had.

Well, once I realized after all too many years that something was wrong I dared to critically look at what I had been taught, to (really) "make it my own". And it began to unravel, which was disconcerting at first but ultimately liberating. One of the first doctrines to fall was that of "no private interpretation". After looking at it from a fresh perspective I realized that for me that section had nothing to do with how I interpret the bible, but rather how we got it. Just look at the context. But I'm not here to convince anyone of what something means or doesn't mean...I suppose that would belong in the doctrinal forum.

And how often did I hear Wierwille and others say things like "it's just got to be this" or "in the original it says this" and it was all their own private interpretation, guesswork (and not good guesswork at that).

As far as the record of Eve is concerned: that's between God and her. But I do know that the basis of belief HAS to start with "Did God really say?". There's nothing wrong with considering what God says (said). It will hold up under scrutiny. As for adding, changing, deleting words: I'd say TWI is more guilty of this than most bible believing groups.

So I'm back to square one on a number of beliefs. That's good in many ways. From TWI I've had a good lesson on "what it is not". That's a good place to start. I know what Christianity is not, it is not TWI.

Peace

.

Rocky.....Handmaid's Tale clip ends showing 12-16 women sleeping side-by-side in a big bedroom.  LOL  [Just like corps training and sleeping in Owens Hall.....except we had bunk beds.]

Gawd....it seems unbelievable to me that after THREE DECADES  beyond wierwille's death.......corps sh1t-coordinators are STILL preaching the praise-be-to-vic-doctrine-of-dependency.  OMG........brain dead or evil conspirators.  Wierwille taught Cult 101........group sessions, group classes, group meetings, group meals, group couselling, group weddings, etc.  Then, at the end of the day, when all were sent away......he had one-on-one sexual predation with "invited" corps girls who were ambushed in his motor coach.  

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13 hours ago, Rocky said:

Both brainwashing and religious conversion rely on strong group pressure. They target people who are exhausted and dejected from extensive self-criticism, doubt, fear, and guilt. 

.......

Corps indoctrination could not have happened without..........ISOLATION.

• Isolated from all outside support
• Isolated from friends, family, community
• Isolated from other reading material, news
• Isolated from other entertainment, sports, involvement
• Ongoing classes, meetings and groups.....even "after-glow" meetings
• Mandatory attendance for all classes, work and meals
• Group bedrooms in Owens Hall had up to 18 men per room
• No privacy, no closet space to speak of
• No way to lock your own bedroom door (or anything else)
• Gee, seems more like detention......or prison 
• Surprise inspections to violate privacy....(checking drawers)

The corps "training" targeted the youth in multiple ways..........we were a CAPTIVE audience.  

Depending on the depth of pain and trauma of one's twi-experience.....coming forward, and telling one's story can be extremely challenging.  For me, it took years to piece together twi's subtle power of spiritual abuse.

• The MOG-doctrine ..... wierwille engineered a circle of enablers to promote him as "the man of God."
• PFAL class .... was hailed as THE class that taught all the keys to biblical research and how to walk with God.
• WOW commitment ..... removed you from support systems of family, friends, coworkers, further education goals, etc.
• Way Corps Training .... an indoctrination program that resulted in *a covenant of salt* to wierwille's ministry thru lifetime.
• Way Corps Commitment .... you can NEVER leave your "salted commitment" or God will remove His protection.
• Ongoing, Weekly Corps Meetings .... who signed up to attend weekly corps meetings FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE?
• Overlords / Tyrants .... twi's directors will NOT allow corps to retire without slandering their "failure to stop twi-servitude."

Quote

Repressed Memory:  Now I know why it's taken me all these years to piece this timeline together repressed memory......

I've been blocking out those years of trauma and stress to protect my identity, my sanity.  Piecing this timeline together year-by-year......is grueling.  It's painful. With each memory, comes more memories.....and I find myself only skimming the high points (ie...the low points) of this turbulent time.  I could name names, I could give more examples......but does it really matter?  If I hadn't thrown away all my corps notes and way mags.....they would have triggered a mountain of repressed memory.

Laced throughout these 174 pages on "About the Way" forum......I've been starting lots of threads, but never connected all those dots.  Well, this thread is the concluding summary of nearing 18 years of posting on Waydale/GSC.  From my childhood roots to brushing shoulders with all four twi-presidents......1) wierwille, 2) martindale, 3) rivenbark, and 4) JYDL.......I'm connecting the dots.

And, still there's more.....that I'm leaving out.  My spouse was/is deeply connected in all this, as well.  She started working at hq in the fall of 1970.  My wife is a corps grad, from an earlier corps than me.....and yes, at this point, I still choose to speak in anonymous terms regarding her involvement.  From her years of involvement and insight, I've got dozens and dozens of things I've never posted........yet.

 Even though I'm well aware that WayGB and dozens of staffers know who I am (and many GSC posters know me as well) .......I still covet internet anonymity.  I'm sure many of you feel the same way. 

But the "trustees" of this evil.......need to be exposed.

.

Although many are reluctant to go into length and depth on their story......older threads contain snippets.  

Whether in the form of humor, sarcasm or irony (etc.)........they give us a glimpse of what happened.

You know you are in a cult if

Quote

topoftheworld quote:   2007

You know you're in a cult when........

You eagerly join their leadership training program, thinking it's to learn to be God's best by training with God's best, only to find yourself working menial jobs, falling asleep in mind-numbing classes, and eating food you wouldn't fed your dogs.

You actually look forward to piling on every piece of clothing you have to stand on the freeway in the freezing cold with your thumb out to hitchhike to another location that you must be to in a certain amount of time or face the wrath of leadership.

You find yourself abducted on the way to one of these blessed locations and having unspeakable things done to you, only to refuse to file a police report because you have to get to where you are going or face the wrath of leadership.

You return from this experience, only to be told by leadership that you have failed due to lack of believing, and they will decide whether or not to kick you out. You then spend the next year and a half on pins and needles, never receiving counseling for the experience but instead feeling like God's worst among God's best.

You finally near the end of this training experience, only to be told two months before graduation that you are truly worthless and have no business being there, causing you to run away in shame and leaving all your belongings and "friends" behind.

You then spend the next twenty years surviving and attempting to build a life (albeit one outside the protection of the household) all the while knowing you're a worthless piece of crap as a human being-they said so, so it must be true). You make no close friends and build no lasting relationships-after all, who would want to be involved with damaged goods and a worthless piece of crap?

You then discover Greasespot Cafe, and discover it was all a lie-and now you don't know anymore who you are.

Yes-the joys of being in a cult.

On 12/16/2021 at 9:39 PM, Rocky said:

Speaking of Insanity on Steroids, and I hope this isn't too far off of the topic, but I found another book while perusing my local public library's website. I've reserved a copy of the book but thought that an excerpt of this non-fiction title, newly available, might be pertinent to those of us trying to figure out how and why we had become vulnerable to Wierwille's message, his subculture, his (what we now know as) dark persuasion. Some have called it brainwashing.

.......
 

Thanks Rocky.

I need to check it out.

On 12/14/2021 at 7:36 AM, penworks said:

Skyrider, 

Thank you for sharing your story in such detail. I admire that. The more background and insight about TWI that's presented here from eye-witnesses and thoughtful former members, the better.

.......

 

Thanks Charlene.

Having spent all these years on Waydale and GreaseSpot starting thread after thread (300-400?)......I decided that it was time to piece together in chronological order my thoughts and twi-experiences of those last 10 years before exiting (escaping).   Of course, I had to reach back into the "wierwille-days" and wierwille doctrine to give the full meaning and impact of how it evolved into the cult that it is today.

While writing my experience, I was becoming frustrated and impatient.  Although there were no time constraints on my postings, I was pressuring myself to keep pace with daily posts.  It was grueling and.....knowing that I really needed to reach back and detail my deprogramming experience....gripped me with an emotional turmoil and trauma.  For nearly 35 years, I had locked away those painful memories of being held captive against my will.  Even with my postings, I doubt that I've conveyed the deep significance that it harbored my personal core.  

But the chewy caramel center of Insanity on Steroids was the three-years of ongoing mandates to full-time corps.  Martindale did not trust the corps to lead without his constant barking.  Since all corps were on payroll.....this gave the cult extra-ordinary control over the corps, the employees.  In weekly corps meetings, verbal abuse ensued and our privacy (via written reports) was being invaded down to 15-minute time intervals.  Insane.

Anywho......here's hoping others, with less pain, will tell their stories.

Your book Undertow is a riveting account and great read.  

.

14 hours ago, T-Bone said:

As always a very incisive, concise and to the point post, Skyrider ! I wish you would put that entire post in your About Me profile. Anytime you and folks like WordWolf provide a clear and comprehensive narrative of TWI stuff I copy and paste it in a Word doc – I’m kinda proud of my collection -  I have detailed files !        but seriously – it would be helpful to some Grease Spot newcomers who may be overwhelmed with the superabundance of information scattered on various threads…folks could go directly to your profile and get a good summary right off the bat.

 

Thanks T-Bone.......I took your suggestion and put info on About Me profile.

You, Rocky, WordWolf, Waysider, Chockfull, OldSkool and others......sure give me lots of good information to read.  Thanks.  

Why I Wrote My Story -- Insanity on Steroids

Five years ago, I put in writing here at GSC my experiences from those last ten years with The Way International.  The reasons why I wrote my story were.....1) to send a warning to all those involved in twi and others considering taking classes from this cult, 2) an attempt to differentiate between Scripture-based Christians and twi's lockstep loyalty of servitude, and 3) to expose twi's incremental steps to overthrow one's will and consent.  There are no fences with concertina wire to hold them prisoners, but there are very-real doctrines of fear and deception interlocking to prevent escape.

Insanity on Steroids

The strongholds of twi's prison are constantly praised and enforced by 1) Twi's MOG-doctrine and 2) the pfal class.  In twi-mythology, wierwille was "the man of God" (to the whole world) who was called to teach the word like it hadn't been known since the first century.  Secondly, the pfal class contained the essence of "the Word" that students were to stand on and never allow anyone to talk them out of it.  Both elements, like rebar and concrete......keep twi's foundation "solid."

No twi-imprisonment would be possible without the way corps.......like guards and walls, to keep the inmates from escaping into nearby communities, jobs/careers and family.  Wierwille devised the corps program knowing that his (stolen) pfal class was not enough to keep people involved.....enforcers would be needed to keep them marching forward.

Why was Martindale chosen as the second President of The Way International?  What did wierwille say was the reason for choosing him?

I have often cited that wiewille's corps leaders were abandoning him as early as 1978.  Thus, he began to write "personal" corps letters in an attempt to strengthen that corps household bond.  It didn't work.  More and more corps were waking up to the fact that this "lifetime of Christian service" was in reality a life of twi-servitude.  And, underneath the surface.....many corps were making plans of their own.  When wierwille died in 1985, the full measure of that seething pot came to a boil.  Let the splintering begin.

Martindale was chosen to lead twi, according to wierwille.....because he ALWAYS OBEYED.  Full stop.  Period.  Wierwille gave no other explanation......and THAT should have sent chills down our spines in 1981.  According to vpw, martindale wouldn't ask how high he was to jump, he just jumped.  Always.  That was the criteria for being chosen as the cult's ..... twi's next president. 

·       Geer took measures to undermine and sabotage twi's trustees.

·       Martindale seemed to actually believe he was the new "man of God."

·       Don and Howard wanted to keep the trains (and money) rolling in.

·       Rosalie (and Donna) were cunningly planning a coup.

·       John Lynn and others saw opportunities to start splinter groups.

With Geer's paper, The Passing of a Patriarch, it is quite easy to see the bold strokes of a power-grab.  Wierwille's death caused a flurry of activity and now, Martindale's peers were not going to accept his leadership as Chief Bottle Washer.  Tumultuous times ensued and an euphemism "the fog years" was inserted to describe those ugly, back-stabbing years.

No matter which leader or ex-leader you chose to associate with......they ALL had the baggage of cult-doctrine.  Corps leaders, all of them, had gone thru an indoctrination program.  Perhaps, the best choice would have been to keep one's distance for at least 10 years and see where the chips fall.  I did not make that smart choice.  I chose to stay involved with twi......and hence, those 10 years seeing Insanity on Steroids.

Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20.

With hindsight 20/20.....all of us here at GSC know now each choice involving Corps Leadership or Ex-Corps Leadership was fraught with error.  Some of us chose to stand with martindale.  Some chose geer.  Some chose lynn.  Some went back to a local church.  Some chose to be left alone (smart choice).

Thankfully, I only stayed until 1998.  Other corps, and many corps coordinators (Moynihans, Forts, Horneys, Magnellis)......stayed until 2016/2017.  Another 18 years being micro-managed by Rosalie Fox Rivenbark!!!  And, one of the things that I find so amazing is that NOT ONE OF THESE CORPS LEADERS (cough, cough) have come clean.  They STILL actively follow the path of wierwille-doctrine giving (subtle) allegiance to wierwille and his plagiarized teachings.

With that in mind.....it makes it all the more important that our stories are out there!!!  Splinter leaders are no different that their mother-cult.  Same indoctrination path to idolatry.

·       How many have heard our warnings and changed course?

·       Lives, marriages, families, and careers have gained stronger footing.

·       Body blows have been given to twi and splinter groups.

·       Possibly, hundreds of thousands abs (millions?) have alluded twi's grasp.

·       Even 100s of indoctrinated corps have bailed in the past 15 years.

·       GreaseSpot Cafe continues to ROCK.....woohoo!!!

Five years later, all the aspects of my life are better.  Actually, pretty damn good (knock on wood).  My critical thinking skills have skyrocketed and I spot manipulation and bullschit a mile away.  I can't imagine what my life would be like had I not taken that challenging LEAP TO FREEDOM.  Nor, can I imagine the hurt, guilt, and limitations that it would have imposed on our kids.  Thank God for the scales falling from my eyes.  Cults herd people into a chasm of dependency......mentally, physically, socially, and financially.  They prey on your weakness and close the gates to your escape.  Sure, you're around other "like-minded" sheep/cattle.....but are you being prepared for the slaughterhouses?

Cults thrive on dependency and silence.  Subjugating and institutionalizing people are their hallmarks of oppression.  Those corps leaders who remain silent are complicit in the evil.

So, keep telling your stories. 

.

BUMP

**********

Here at GSC, we've thoroughly discussed wierwille's theft (plagiarism) of B.G. Leonard's foundational class and Bullinger's work......but we rarely delve into E.W. Kenyon's work.  Clearly, Kenyon was a strong proponent of "the integrity of the Word"......a phrase that wierwille liked to take "ownership" of often.  LOL.  And, I find it very intriguing that Peter J. Wade, Editor of The Way Magazine (1967-1970), disassociated with wierwille's twi in the early '70s and went back to Australia.  Whereupon, he starts his own ministry work and, decades later, pays tribute to the great man E.W. Kenyon.

Also, in the early '70s......Kenyon's works were promoted and sold in The Way's bookstore.  But.....when twi's collateral books had chapters augmented (reworded) from Kenyon's works, his books were no longer promoted.  See how that works?

Speaking of the "glory days" in twi.....

Here is a link to some twi-history.......that none of us young bucks knew back in the day.  This link gives insight into the summer school camps in the 1960s and some of the reasons, Peter J. Wade......wierwille's right-hand man......left.  

A couple of questions about vpw

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2 hours ago, T-Bone said:

That’s an interesting point, WordWolf…I think more than anything else why it worked in the 60s and 70s was because their beloved-revered-to-the-Nth-degree-cult-leader wierwille was alive and well…after all, TWI was a cult of personality and it revolved around wierwille…only thing is, TWI never transitioned to a new cult leader who had the same powerful charisma as wierwille…maybe TWI could have taken some tips from David M. of Scientology…just thinking in hindsight after wierwille passed away , knowing what I know now about cults and cult leaders – I think the ministry-wide  despondency, angst, uneasiness, and even the mass exodus of so many way corps and clergy at that time was a dead giveaway that TWI was nothing more than a cult of personality....    When wierwille passed away,  his larger than life charismatic influence that gave TWI its inspiration, vision, direction, vitality and strength was also gone... it was like being in a weird parallel universe but some things are a little screwed up...a vaguely familiar story but playing out differently in this world - almost  as if Jesus had died - but never got up from the grave.

Wierwille started writing his "Corps Letters" in 1977........BECAUSE he needed to establish another avenue of *control and guilt* from corps grads abandoning him and his grifting "ministry" (cough, cough).  Lest we forget...... corps grads WERE SEEING THE RUSE and leaving in the mid to late 70s.  Peter Wade split out in 1975 and started his own splinter group.

Anyone who wants to delve into the details in these GSC threads can see that "the wierwille mystique" was unraveling by 1977, 1978..... and twi began to initiate other in-house measures to keep dissenters away.  Also, lots of good twig coordinators around the country were being pushed out by "newly-trained way corps" who came into those areas and strong-armed people, leaving destruction in their wake.  The Way Ministry went thru a massive transformation, basically from 1975-1978, and was centralizing power and control at "headquarters."  Soon, there was even suggested (mandated) Monthly "teaching themes" that were to be taught in each twig.  Where did the **Christ-in-you** inspiration (in-spirit-action) go??????

Anywho.......lots of things, folks.  

Read wierwille's Corps Letters .....    Wierwille's Corps Letters

P.S.  This file is mislabeled.  These corps letters are NOT the same as "Corps Household NEWSLETTERS."

.

15 hours ago, socks said:

No idea, far as answers. It's been pete and repeat there since Day One, with some occasional bright lights surfacing. 

A lot of what the Way did with VPW's direction was to adopt and re label and re design existing programs and systems. He'd been exposed to the liberal Protestant meta physical teachings and efforts by Glen Clark, Mosley, Daily and others, the "Ashrams", all of that. He talked a lot about that in the 60's and early 70's that I heard from him. He didn't really connect the "Jesus People" movement on the West Coast to that, in a practical way though, he never spoke of the doctrinal or theological underpinnings, at least that I heard. Despite wanting to be a Big Thinker he lacked a methodology to synthesize ideas, he was a tad clumsy in that regard and more inclined to assemble, copy and rename. 

So where there were Glenn Clark and his "Camp Farthest Out" and retreats, VPW called his getaways "Advances" which I think was a name already getting used, I forget who else might have been using it - "renewal" was a favored term too, nothing wrong with any of them I guess but my point  is that VPW tended to do pretty much what others had or were doing and he just renamed them and made them out to be his own ideas. 

The sense of ownership that comes with things we come up with and work to accomplish that may not be actually "new" aside, it seemed he knew exactly what he was doing in that regard. 

So - what the Way is doing by building loosely on their own past and using that is probably a combination of a sense of pursuing a thread of godliness in their past and doing what they know how to do. Even at my kindest I'd have to say the Way was never led by the brightest bulbs. Anyone with education, talent and motivation was expected to put on the nametag and move the program he wanted to put in place. Anyone with education, talent and motivation either didn't stay or was booted out at some point, leaving the Most Average of the Average to mind the store. Others had the mindset of survival so they kept on for the 3 hots and the cot. 

I hear news of what they're doing and as kindly as I can put it - it sounds about right. I just don't expect much from them, and can't see why I would. 

 

Yep......that is a *kind* assessment.

After 23 years of post-twi acknowledging how abusive, exploitive, dysfunctional and pathetic The Way International was and is ...... there is no way that I can use euphemisms regarding Wierwille's narcissism and pathologies to deceive others.  The Way International was/is a cult, because wierwille was a lazy, plagiarist, predator and profiteer.  The whole marketing scheme was "get butts in chairs for classes and big events and fleece their money thru guilt."  Since PFAL '77..... big event after big event as the cult leader, wierwille, pontificates and rehashes B.G. Leonard's (and Bullinger's) material.

Wierwille was a fraudster.  He talked big, but behinds the scenes the con was in full gear.  Enablers stocked his motor coach with Drambuie and his aides, bodyguards, became procurers inviting select young corps girls to wierwille's lair, motor coach.  Sick, twisted, destructive evil.

So, no.....I have NO euphemisms for wierwille's "leadership and ministry."

• Outreach Beyond vpw's congregation

````

• The Six Stages of Wierwille's Climb to Power

````

At this stage of the game......I assert that twi's directors and splinter group leaders RIDE THE COATTAILS OF WIERWILLE, because it's the *only game* that gives them access to gullible pfal-followers.  In a galaxy far, far away......a generation of youth became mesmerized with a cult of personality.  Like a fish caught on a line, the "believer" was reeled into the net.  There was subliminal messaging throughout pfal...... once you hear "the Word" (wierwille's 33-hrs of pfal rehashing), DO NOT ALLOW anyone to ever talk you out of it.  No matter that wierwille couldn't walk the spiritual walk..... but instead smoked like a chimney, a drunkard, a striker, a bully, kept pornography, a serial plagiarist and sexual predator.

Some people succumb to spiritual abuse and are institutionalized.

Some people see the ruse and break those chains to gain freedom.

.

On 11/14/2021 at 8:21 PM, skyrider said:

For those who follow NFL Sports...... it's been an interesting two weeks.

• Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay Packers QB [unvaccinated] got Covid.....(and yes, I know the tit-for-tat backstory).  He contacted Joe Rogan, who had recovered from Covid earlier this year) and followed the same protocols of Ivermectin, zinc, vitamin D3, etc......and played in the game today against the Seattle Seahawks.  Packers won 17-0.
• Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers QB [fully vaccinated] got Covid.....and was placed on the reserve/Covid-19 list and missed today's game against the Detroit Lions.

These are the kinds of scenarios that are surfacing.  If we leave the politics and tribal thinking out of it.... why can't our health experts take a look at other therapeutic treatments like IVERMECTIN?

Rodgers was sick with Covid-19 just 10-12 days ago (??)..... and he's out on the football field TODAY leading his team to a shutout over the Seattle Seahawks 17-0.  Why is there silence in the media?  Shouldn't medical experts be phoning him and asking him to explain his treatment, his recovery?

If anyone sees a follow-up news article on this.......let me know.  Thanks.

Two high profile athletes.......one unvaccinated, one fully vaccinated.......you'd THINK that our 24/7 news cycle of "journalism" would want to get the scoop on this, right?

I'm sure everyone is SO BUSY running data points that no journalist has the time to follow-up on this.  No fact checkers?  Nothing?  lol

One.....Aaron Rodgers, uses a treatment that is not approved by the FDA and CDC......and only misses one football game.  His covid treatment:  Ivermectin, zinc, vitamin D3, etc.  Shortly thereafter.....he's back on the football field and leads his Green Bay Packers to a shutout victory over Seattle Seahawks 17-0.

Does everything have to be run thru the authoritarian institutions of FDA, CDC and Big Pharma?

.