skyrider

6 hours ago, WordWolf said:

This, of course, was the SAME lcm who spent several years wandering the grounds in a fog-by his OWN ADMISSION- following the reading of Passing of the Patriarch.  Somebody who knew him said it looked like he might have been on psychiatric medication or something.    AFTER that, he was known for such "gems" as this one.   So, he learned nothing about humility or compassion from needing help or needing compassion because he was hurting.

Whether it was martindale, geer, rivenbark, john lynn, etc.......these wannabe-leaders were molded in the same image as their "plagiarist father" - wierwille.  As a boy, victor would hide in the woods to avoid work.  As a teenager, he would do trick-riding on his motorcycle to attract attention to himself.  Victor was anti-social and had learning issues.  Is there any wonder why wierwille could not pursue the business/professional life, but rather the church denomination preacher path?

After 16 years of stagnant church conformity in mid-west Ohio, wierwille wanted to forge ahead with his OWN ambitions and undertaking.  For nearly four years (1953-1957)......wierwille gained access to Rev. B.G. Leonard's Gifts of the Spirit class in Canada and taught it as his own.  Now, at age 40 .....wierwille was forging ahead with this stolen class and LEAVING church boards and their directives behind.

His narcissism was the leading force of his pursuits.  Thus, wierwille capitalizes on the two main areas of his quest for power over others......money and control.  There was no room for humility, compassion or empathy in his pathological disorders.  That's why one finds this gaping path of destruction in twi as wierwille torn thru people's lives to attain his "way ministry."

Mrs. Wierwille's book, Born Again to Serve attempts to elevate her husband to this spiritual calling of God ..... but it details a moth-eaten tapestry weaved together by deception and dishonesty.

.

9 hours ago, OldSkool said:

That would likely go something very simillar to this satirical version below. 

"I mean, why wouldn't Joe the new guy want to finish Reverend Martindale's class? It's God's Word for our day and time! Did you string the edges of the tables during setup? What? You have Eddie on coordinating the setup crew? You do know he hasn't abundantly shared since he lost his job? I mean how can you expext God to bless you if you have a hard, ungiving heart. You need to confront Eddie!"

LOL......so true.

Back in the day, 1980-1983.....two incidents happened that changed my *reverence* for the big-shots at the helm of this organization:  

1.  Wierwille announced during the Rock of Ages that tomorrow night, there would be a healing service in the Big Top (tent).  I was very excited.  Finally, we were going to see wierwille in action..... and the power of God in manifestation.  So, the next night when wierwille walks out on stage, he starts the *healing service* by summoning all the advanced class grads and corps who want to come forward to minister to others.  Then, he asks those that need healing/ministered to to come forward and someone will be there for one-on-one ministering.  Wierwille stood at the microphone the whole time.  Nothing more!!  I was SO DISAPPOINTED to see him delegate all this ministering to others.
2. At Corps Week, it began raining nearly every day (1983).  On about the third night, Martindale or Dean Don came to microphone and blasted the corps for their unbelieving-believing for NOT STOPPING THE RAIN.  Huh???  I sat there pondering that confrontation.....why does it take *collective believing* from the corps household to stop the rain?  I didn't undertand.  Weren't there countless records in the Scripture of one person's walk of faith to change events....even if surrounded by unbelief?  If these spiritual big-wigs were so high and mighty, why couldn't THEY stop the rain?

Who'll stop the rain

2 hours ago, WordWolf said:

The rules don't apply to everyone equally- but under Communism or similar ideological systems, the official word is that the rules DO apply to everyone equally.  This is, of course, a big, fat lie.   Those in power always are Haves, and the rest are Have-Nots,  for some value of Have and Have-Not  (specifics vary wildly with different examples.)

The Haves in a Cult......get to sit at headquarters and pontificate on their "greatness."

The Have-Nots on the field.......slave away giving of their time, energy and money to the Haves who double-dip in salary and slothfulness.

15 hours ago, skyrider said:

 

Just in case twi still *wonders* why field corps CONTINE TO EXIT.........THIS is one of the biggies.  

IT COSTS MONEY TO *WITNESS AND RUN PFAL/WAP CLASSES*......and twi won't pay the lion's share of expenses!!!!!  Driving here, there and yonder to witness, pick up people for class, take them home.....and do it ALL AGAIN throughout the class is challenging.  Add class room set-up and working your regular job ( 8 hrs a day ) tends to make for long days.  Those at headquarters simply do their little job and (many) have cafeteria meals prepared for them 3 times a  day.  Staffers don't have to do that grocery shopping, refreshments for classes, clean up, room set -up........etc. etc. etc.  UNTIL those bozos as directors figure out how aggravating it is to see and live the double standard that they pontificate.....there will ALWAYS be a revolving door of field corps exiting twi, gladly.  

 

And further..........not just money, but time and stress.  Rushing around after your work day to get to the class location for set-up.  Is the place locked?  Who's got the key?  Cleaning supplies?  Was it left a mess from the last time you were there?  Is the room too hot?  Rush, rush, rush.  Now, that the room is set-up.... change your clothes.  Get ready for students to arrive.

Add hours of sitting.  Then, when students leave...... store equipment, re-setup room as it was before.  Drive home.  Fall into bed.  And, do it all again.....tomorrow.

Hopefully, there's not some bad-arse corps leader confronting the class crew before they go home on something that was missed.  Or, headquarters people...... wanting an explanation as to why several students chose NOT to finish the class.  

2 hours ago, OldSkool said:

That double standard is ingrained into the directors. Let's face it. Every director currently on the board has worked lower tier jobs in TWI and they know the field leadership regularly go out of pocket to cover ministry expenses. They've all been branch coordinators/fellowship coordinators. They know fuil well about the double standard and appearantly they like it. Any one of them Bill, Vern, John, could set a directive that all the field corps  are required to submit expense reimbursement forms for their cost over runs on ministry business. They don't and they won't. On the field it's so screwy. More times than not, when branch coordinators ask for gas reimbursement their limb guy tells them something like "just consider it abundant sharing". I've heard it so many many times from branch, and even limb coordinators. The field guys are afraid to do much more than what they are expected to do and most of them would never dream of rocking the boat by daring to ask for reimbursements. Many of the staff assignments are gravy compared to life in a field assignment and most all of them know it. The directors demand special treatment, so their hypocrisy knows no bounds. Christ really is absent for them and in his place is a big image of VPW. You know, that guy that had them play hail to the chief when he entered a room?

Yup.  That's why martindale's *all-field-corps-on payroll* FAILED.......when the rubber meets the road, the field corps and adv class grads are THE ONES DOING ALL THE WORK AND ABSORBING ALL THE COSTS TO RUN CLASSES.  

Anytime classes run on the field.....especially at a location where the room needs to cleaned, set-up, taken down and stored AFTER EACH SESSION.....is all kinds of grueling work.  How many times can someone be required to be on the set-up crew?  Time off work?  Skip dinner?  Who watches young kids at home? Refreshment crew?  Who buys it?  No wonder plastic (and styrofom?) cups were reused.....LOL

Gawd, twi is so pathetic.  With $68 million socked away.....you'd think that they would feel shame for screwing over the field people.  Nope.  They have no conscience, no guilt, no shame.  They are entitled and above reproach.  They are the modern-day Pharisees.

.

On 7/3/2021 at 8:08 AM, skyrider said:

 

In 1997, as limb coordinators on twi-payroll......my wife and I together made $36,500 a year (of which, I was working 65-75 hours per week).  The bulk of our expense went to our housing allowance....$650 per month, $7,800 per year.  So, with our family of four.....we had around $29,000 to live on.  Twi reimbursed us for ministry-miles travel expense, but with car maintenance, insurance and upkeep....it hardly seemed to cover wear-n-tear on vehicles.  Then in 1998, when martindale was fuming over all-corps-on-payroll......he castigated us field corps and strongly suggested all corps couples should only need one car.  Yeah, right....ppffft.  When limb coordinators are traveling hundreds of miles away......the wife, with kids didn't need a car (?????).  What about grocery shopping?  Picking kids up from school if need be?  Dentist appointments?  Errands?  Asked to teach someone's fellowship?  Sheesh.....martindale and his bozo assessment of reality.

Running classes.  Room set-up.  Run wap-classes for all grads (1996).  Intermediate wap-classes (1997). Advanced wap-class (1998).  Run here. Run there.... and martindale wanted corps couples to do all of this with ONE CAR...???  At headquarters, staffers on grounds can WALK to work.  They don't need two cars to help run dozens of errands for running classes, teaching fellowships in other cities.  Constant faxes dictating something else to do.  Martindale was barking orders constantly to keep us jumping thru hoops.

Yes, twi has always been shamelessly cheap.

 

Just in case twi still *wonders* why field corps CONTINE TO EXIT.........THIS is one of the biggies.  

IT COSTS MONEY TO *WITNESS AND RUN PFAL/WAP CLASSES*......and twi won't pay the lion's share of expenses!!!!!  Driving here, there and yonder to witness, pick up people for class, take them home.....and do it ALL AGAIN throughout the class is challenging.  Add class room set-up and working your regular job ( 8 hrs a day ) tends to make for long days.  Those at headquarters simply do their little job and (many) have cafeteria meals prepared for them 3 times a  day.  Staffers don't have to do that grocery shopping, refreshments for classes, clean up, room set -up........etc. etc. etc.  UNTIL those bozos as directors figure out how aggravating it is to see and live the double standard that they pontificate.....there will ALWAYS be a revolving door of field corps exiting twi, gladly.  

On 7/2/2021 at 6:30 AM, OldSkool said:

They started selling all the benefits that used to be free. Meal plans with food services, way styles charges, rent, etc. Your math is right on the money with salary. As presidents cabinet I made around $21,000 a year. I made just enough to get medicaid for my child when their cheesy insurance plan capped out at $10,000 for a lifetime max. They are shamelessly cheap.

In 1997, as limb coordinators on twi-payroll......my wife and I together made $36,500 a year (of which, I was working 65-75 hours per week).  The bulk of our expense went to our housing allowance....$650 per month, $7,800 per year.  So, with our family of four.....we had around $29,000 to live on.  Twi reimbursed us for ministry-miles travel expense, but with car maintenance, insurance and upkeep....it hardly seemed to cover wear-n-tear on vehicles.  Then in 1998, when martindale was fuming over all-corps-on-payroll......he castigated us field corps and strongly suggested all corps couples should only need one car.  Yeah, right....ppffft.  When limb coordinators are traveling hundreds of miles away......the wife, with kids didn't need a car (?????).  What about grocery shopping?  Picking kids up from school if need be?  Dentist appointments?  Errands?  Asked to teach someone's fellowship?  Sheesh.....martindale and his bozo assessment of reality.

Running classes.  Room set-up.  Run wap-classes for all grads (1996).  Intermediate wap-classes (1997). Advanced wap-class (1998).  Run here. Run there.... and martindale wanted corps couples to do all of this with ONE CAR...???  At headquarters, staffers on grounds can WALK to work.  They don't need two cars to help run dozens of errands for running classes, teaching fellowships in other cities.  Constant faxes dictating something else to do.  Martindale was barking orders constantly to keep us jumping thru hoops.

Yes, twi has always been shamelessly cheap.

.

10 hours ago, OldSkool said:

Well, I cant say what it is now but in 2008 they basically paid minumum wage and them mandated 6 hours overtime paid at time and a half. They called this "getting paid a salary based on an hourly rate. Yes to the part time for older staff. and my deductible was $3,000 but the policy with medical mutual had a $10,000 lifetime max. 

So, in 2008.....the minimum wage in Ohio increased from $6.85 to $7.00 an hour.  At 40 hours per week, that's $280.....plus 6 hours of overtime pay at time and a half ( $10.50 X 6 = $63 ) totaling $343 per week.  Twi used to pay their staff on a bi-monthly schedule so the calculations will be a little different.  But basically, it amounts to $1,372 per month, $16,500 per year.

Since twi no longer pays "according to your need".....they have to make adjustments for those who get the "benefits" of food (3 meals a day) and housing those on grounds versus those who live in nearby communities.  In other words, twi must subtract a set amount for food/housing to meet with IRS regulations, right?  Sure, its probably a small amount.....but it needs to comply with state/federal regulations.  

And, now that twi has "lifted the no-debt policy"......can staffers buy newer cars and make payments?  When staff twi-servitude is your whole life and you receive food, housing, "entertainment," haircuts, snack shop, etc. on grounds......a $450 per month car payment would be easy enough to handle.  And, if this sort of institutionalized living fits your personality and low-level goals/desires in life.......then it works.  For a while, at least.

On 6/27/2021 at 12:21 PM, OldSkool said:

https://player.vimeo.com/video/566223559?badge=0&autopause=0&player_id=0&app_id=58479

"We've got a shirt for you.  Come join us."   Vern Edwards

Like thousands who've gone thru those revolving doors as hq-staffers......your mission (if you so choose) is to join the staff at The Way International to "move the Word."  You are signing up for 40 hours per week......plus volunteer overtime a few evenings here and there each month......plus some Saturday work days to get ready for *big events*.......plus highly-encouraged lunch at their cafeteria with 30-40 minute announcements each day......plus a Sunday service job assignment and attendance mandatory.

Did they mention individual benefits like a competitive salary, health care plan, 401k-retirement plan, vacation time, etc.....??  No, they did not.  This is NOT about you and benefits that will help you achieve your goals.  This is about them, twi.....the collective compound working as a unit.  It works best when everyone is pulling their own weight.......every day of the week.  Singles are highly encouraged to join.  And, those with professional skills like auto mechanics, engineers, electricians, plumbers and carpenters.....they need you!  Sure, you could find plenty of opportunities with higher wages/salaries in the world.....but where could you find a job that is dedicated to truly moving God's Word?

After years of serving on hq-staff......you, too, will be as exciting as a mannequin in the back of a storage room.  Just watch Vern give his awkward,  introductory remarks..... it wreaks of fake, plastic salesmen.

10 hours ago, OldSkool said:

You have to appreciate the irony. When I was assigned to staff as way corps there were around 400 or so staff and many of them under the age of 30. A group of staff kids went over to grand lake in st marys and got drunk except one of the kids who was out getting hammered was T!m M@rtind@le. So they fired all the staff kids involved and didn't do anything to Tim except take his name off his door in founders hall, except it was still his room when he was home on weekends and away from college. So word got out and young people quit coming to work on staff except for a very few. Rosalie couldnt stand the younger staff because they were trouble makers in her eyes. She even came up with a youung adult fellowship and made sure it was scheduled on Friday nights so the "young people stuff" could be kept to a minimum. Now Rosalie is weaving baskets over at foxhaven and they have a bunch of new young faces. I hope these kids don't get screwed over and hurt in the end but that's likely as soon as any of them step out of line or come up sith some new research, etc.

After the lawyers got involved and advised twi to oust Martindale (after two sexual predation lawsuits).......didn't twi have to STOP the illegal mandate of "pay according to your need" that wierwille instituted?  So, how does it work now?  Does the auto mechanic... or plumber...or electriciam get paid more than the housekeepers?  What is the pay scale?  $9 an hour?  $15 an hour?  No overtime pay, right?

Also, I think that someone posted that after age 68.....staffers can only work part time.  How many hours?  20 hrs per week?  30 hrs per week?

All of this is sad, really.  Twi seems to justify all this by subsidizing meals, room and board [units and founders hall] for these staffers.  So, if you do the math.... at $10 per hour.... some staffers are living on grounds and receiving maybe $20,000 -  $22,000 per year.  Maybe that works for older staff on social security and don't have any life other than twi, but it sucks for young people to be trapped into a dead-end job.  Hard to build any equity on these types of wages.

13 hours ago, Twinky said:

Yes indeed.  Red?  Never been a TWI colour, more like a cheap supermarket.  You'd think they'd have bright green (WC green) at least, or as staff nametags were woodgrain pattern, perhaps a brown T shirt.  Ore even a blue (representing God) shirt.  But red?

Ha! Got it!  In the AoS video, the "seed" dancer was dressed all in red.  Subliminal message, perhaps.  

Craig Martindale changed everything to in his WAP class to a red syllabus.....to differentiate from wierwille's green syllabus. Not sure why this insist on sticking with red.  Hell.....with all exits and burned out lives and enthusiasm for twi, maybe it should be burnt orange?

13 hours ago, Allan said:

why do I feel like I'm watching an advertisement for a retirement home ??

I know, right?  From start to finish......and 86 year old Howard Allen and wife, Wanda, joining in.

46 minutes ago, OldSkool said:

https://player.vimeo.com/video/566223559?badge=0&autopause=0&player_id=0&app_id=58479

Oh my.  Click on image only if you want to hear the sleazy, cult commercial......

Howard and Wanda.  Is that Vern and wife?  Rupp. Greene.

Where's Rosalie?  Where's the CEO....Donna Martindale?  

Why is it that Rosalie and Donna always seem hidden?  Away from the spotlight.  Hiding in the shadows.

"During my 24-year twi involvement.....The most fiery, sustained confrontations from wierwille and martindale were leveled at dissenting leadership. Nothing else comparable to it! The most divisive, vicious, vein-popping, profanity-spewing and sustained-intensity periods of 'hatred' were unloaded in closed-corps meetings!!

Most Fiery Confrontations Leveled at Dissenting Leadership [link]

Malignant narcissism, indeed!  Wierwille would NOT allow top-tier leadership or loyal followers to walk away unscathed.  He had to have the last word.....even if they were gone, or dead.  His sadism and aggression was profound when dissenting leaders left twi.  Cunning to the core, wierwille knew that a trickle of exits could erupt into a flood.  So, he would strike.  Yes, vpw was a striker.....one of many behaviors that DISQUALIFIED him from the office of a minister, an overseer [ I Timothy 3:3].

The grip of fear was released upon his death in May 1985......and the exodus flood was underway.  Some think that it was Geer's paper, "The Passing of a Patriarch" and ensuing power-grab that was the impetus of this exodus.  I contend that wierwille's death and his relentless grip of ownership (master/servant) was the catalyst.  Dozens of corps (60-100) were slipping out the back door each year, but then......300 more entered the regular corps program and 150 (??) into the family corps.  The surge of excitement among the youth outdistanced the reality on the ground....even as wierwille's corps letters opined for the corps to stay in line.

With scripture as its pretense, many good people were entrapped into a subculture of wierwille's narcissistic making.  Even though Mrs. Wierwille's book, Born Again to Serve documents how wierwille sat thru B.G. Leonard's class TWICE in Calgary, Alberta and then rushed home to run the exact same class..... many devote followers refuse to see the blatant (stolen) plagiarism.  Detailing the struggles of starting a new undertaking and moving to the wierwille homestead in 1961......victor paul wierwille was simply peddling a stolen class up and down the highways of America.  And, with five children at home.....he needed to keep moving to pay the bills.

Fast-forward to 1972.....and the summer camps and outreach efforts were reaching the youth.  The Jesus Movement helps to affix a counter-revolution from established norms and communes were in vogue. Hundreds made the pilgrimage to the rock of ages......which later, brought thousands.  The teachings, music, camping alongside other excited youth set ablaze a fire of curiosity and involvement to join twi's programs, WOW and Corps.  And, in turn.....many of these changed teenagers, druggies and dropouts witnessed to their folks and families and they, too, became involved.

The 1977-1984 years were twi at its summit.  Big events, Ambassador One flights,  5 corps campuses, regular corps and family corps, thousands outgoing WOW ambassadors....medical WOWs, military WOWs, WOW Vet program, offices moving to the new Outreach Services Center, Founders Hall, building of new auditorium with state-of-the-art studio, orchestra, etc. etc.  Reaching the summit was exhilarating and exhausting.  The trail of hardship and burdens was leaving corps and returning wows broke and in emotional turmoil.  Leaky and broken cars. Sharing rental apartments or homes with 4 or 5 others in "way homes" had its own set of issues and challenges.  The rollercoaster ride was coming to an end.

Wierwille's narcissistic boastings excited the masses......but the foundation was built on shifting sand.  As corps graduated and married......soon-to-follow were babies in strollers.  Lots of them, hundreds of them.  Now, these young corps men and women had life-long responsibility staring them in the face, bills to pay, decisions to make.  No longer could they rush to meeting after meeting, rock of ages after rock of ages and camp out in tents.  Now, they needed an air-conditioned motel room for the baby's comfort.  More bills.  More decisions.  Wierwille's malignant narcissism began show its aggression.  He became more agitated and pi$$ed each year that his corps servants were retreating from the onslaught of activities.  His corps letters are filled with pining and whining.

Sure, there is still a shell of its former self at twi's compound......but certainly no longer a "headquarters."  Thousands paid a dear price for giving precious years of their youth to follow in wierwille's narcissistic pathologies.  He set out to live life on his terms.....and he did.

8 hours ago, Rocky said:

A demonstration of wierwille's malignant narcissism. He thought and acted like he was the Big Cheese. Pffft!

Malignant narcissism is a psychological syndrome comprising an extreme mix of narcissism, antisocial behavior, aggression and sadism.  Delving deeper into this mixture, one finds emotional cruelty purposefully manipulating others through the use of fear.  And, throughout this manipulation.....there is an extreme lack of empathy for one's troubles and plight.  Inevitably, one's fear only reinforces and empowers the narcissist.

As corps and staff, I witnessed firsthand cruelty of others by wierwille.  

Here are 3 such incidents:

Quote

In 1980, in the BRC.....a group of six were seated up front to share about their experiences and learning at "The Tracker" seminar where Tom Brown Jr. taught skills of tracking and survival. Remember, from 1976-1981, twi and, specifically, the corps program was heavily engaged in a sub-theme of "mobile abundant living" [MAL-packs] in the event of an American government overthrow. Thus, some corps and others went to learn from the man who was "the master of tracking" - Tom Brown Jr.

During this BRC gathering, wierwille was seated near the front on the side. All six members had come prepared to share their learning experience to those of us, 90-120 people, in an evening gathering. Going down the line, each shared about ten minutes and how learning is exciting and all. BUT.....this nice, pleasant evening was just about to take a jaded turn as the fourth person shared his experience. He was 8th corps and had a deep enthusiasm for all-things nature, had built a small cabin years before, and an ego to match. Not sure if he spoke longer than his slotted time frame, but superlatives were attached to Tom Brown's skills and teaching. Tom Brown was the master, the man in the spotlight, the man to teach anyone about life and living!!

Well.....wiewille couldn't stand it any longer. With fire in his eyes, he jumped up and unloaded with vehement, frothing-at-the-mouth anger! This 8th corps guy was "POSSESSED," he thundered with a vengence. For a moment, I actually thought wierwille was going to throw a punch and deck the guy. He was that furious. He railed and railed. I found myself in a whirlwind of thoughts, "What the he!! is going on here? Is this guy really possessed? Are we going to see devil spirits cast out? Oh, my!" Wierwille thundered onward....there seemed to be no end.

Finally, the fury stopped as wierwille headed for the backroom of the BRC. The silence in the room was deafening as Johnnie T. came forward to tag-team the meltdown. Another ten minutes of justifying wierwille's fury and Johnnie dismissed us. As I walked back to my unit, I wondered why wierwille didn't cast out any spirits.....IF this guy was indeed possessed. My respect for wierwille had, once again, diminished in my eyes.

Amazingly, the head-to-head confrontation did NOT crush this 8th corps guy nor his testimony....in my opinion. And perhaps, that is why the confrontation lasted so long. WIERWILLE COULD NOT STAND ANOTHER MAN, TOM BROWN, LAUDED AS A GREAT MAN AND TEACHER.

2.....

Quote

Another Wierwille Confrontation...

While at headquarters my final year of inresidence corps......a nightowl was scheduled in the Way Woods. The night was pleasant and, as we walked past the George Jess memorial, a crackling fire welcomed us with curling flames and warmth. For me, I was thankful to be outdoors and soak in the sounds and smells of nature.

As always, the corps coordinator handles the initial stages of corps gatherings before wierwille steps in. This seems to be standard twi protocol, much like a warm-up band takes the stage before the marquee band takes the music and crowd to a whole new level. Anyways, that is the way it's always done....and probably, will stay. When wierwille enters, he takes his chair and is flanked by the corps coordinator. Another couple of logs are placed on the fire to set the atmosphere, and the crickets chirp in the woods.

About an hour into the nightowl, as the serenity of the evening was peaking....none of us could foresee what was about to erupt! In the shadows behind wierwille was his aide, his bodyguard whose two-way radio blurted and screeched in the quiet night air. The "atmosphere" of the whole evening came to an abrupt halt; a meticulously planned nightowl was broken in an instant. Wierwille could NOT contain his anger. He unleashed this tempest and castigated him relentlessly for about five minutes.

This bodyguard was the same man wierwille had praised months before by saying, "He stands by my side, because he doesn't take sh!t from no one." So, the irony of this night loomed large as wierwille couldn't help but verbally attack his right-hand man. Why couldn't vpw just cover for the mistake? Or, better yet.....call attention to it as a big ooops! and move on? What made it so awkward was that wierwille was "caught in the headlights" and couldn't adjust to the moment. So, his anger came front and center!! To me, this fury revealed wierwille's character....something he worked a lifetime to hide.

The bodyguard? From what I heard from hq-staffers the next day, he packed up and left.

Never saw him again.

3.

Quote

The 3rd Wierwille Major Confrontation.....

Sitting in the OSC Dining Room during Corps Night [those transition years moving from the BRC and waiting for the Auditorium to be built]........where wierwille was going thru his "literal translations according to usage" in the Book of Romans. While most corps took notes furiously, there were others in the back who didn't take these meetings quite so serious or spiritual.

Anyways..........about an hour into the corps meeting, and this 6th corps guy is starting to nod off. Problem was..... he was near the front, somewhere near the fourth or fifth row, and in eye-shot of wierwille. Well, the nodding increased and the closed-eyelids-duration was becoming visibly evident. And, even though a couple of nearby corps tried to help this fellow stay awake.........it just wasn't meant to be.

And, then it happened......wierwille's eyes fixed on a NODDING, DOZING CORPS GRAD who had the audacity, and no spirituality, to sleep while wierwille taught from Romans!!! This "act of disrespect" demanded the most intense verbal lashing that wierwille could muster......and thus it was. Red-faced with anger, and neck-veins visible...... wierwille launched into this tirade to strip bare every thread of self-worth that this corps grad had. On and on the verbal lashing went........not 20 stripes, not 25 stripes, not 30 stripes, not 35 stripes........BUT 39 VICIOUS, VERBAL STRIPES.......just one short of total and utter demoralization.

Wierwille's anger could not be contained.....he went back stage and Craig came out as if *to tag-team* the effort some more. It was horrendous and awful and disgraceful. Man, in hindsight.....I wish that I'd stood up and yelled at the top of my lungs........SHUT THE HECK UP AND LET HIM BE.

The corps guy was escorted from the room......and wierwille came back, after about 10 minutes, to finish his teaching. But we'd already SEEN his teaching and lifestyle......who needed to take more notes???

The next morning......word spread that the 6th Corps staff guy was fired and sent packing.

Need to add.......this corps guy, after seeking medical help awhile later, found out that he had a blood-sugar problem and he was treated for it. Prescription medicine helped him to not doze off. Guess wierwille nor martindale saw deep enough to HELP this guy.

35 minutes ago, OldSkool said:

Didnt martindale used to say people were getting posessed from old pfal classes?

Yep.

And, if you listened to music tapes from cop-outs,,,,,, that would get you possessed too.  

28 minutes ago, Twinky said:

Blah blah blah.  What about his own respect for his own ordination vows?

Sometimes people don’t want to hear the truth because they don’t want their illusions destroyed.     

Friedrich Nietzsche

56 minutes ago, Rocky said:

Here is one where wierwille was whining about corpse abandoning their "duty" to God (i.e. to The Way).

"The privilege and responsibility of being Corps should hit you bigger and bigger --- day after day and week after week if you are awake to see what is happening in our country and the world.  I doubt if anyone besides the Corps has undertaken such an awesome responsibility for centuries."

Centuries???  

Oh my!  Notice how wierwille (and all slick con men) speak in vague generalities.  Yeah, you corps are **awesome** as long as you follow me.  As his narcissism blinds him from reality, wierwille becomes a legend in his own mind.  What must he be thinking?  That he is like another Apostle Paul having come forth centuries later......to awaken the world to his pfal class?

THIS CORPS LETTER closes with......"This letter is for Corps only." 

The secrecy of his "success" was the secrecy of his moves.  

20 hours ago, skyrider said:

Wierwille seemed to love all the pampering and adulation.

Back in the 1970s......wierwille's valet was a devoted man especially with the arrival of Geer.  Not only was he wierwille's valet, but also bus driver, bodyguard, procurer of women, guardian of secrets, loyal servant and caretaker of wierwille's legacy.  Who could ask for anything more?

If wierwille wanted his favorite German meal prepared, then the order was carried out.  When music was desired, Way Productions performed on a Saturday Night on the blacktop near the wierwille home.  In the summer's night air, wierwille liked to engage in a night owl around a meticulous campfire setting where he could sip on his Drambuie coffee and pontificate about his ancestral heritage and spiritual undertakings.  Whether at the "head table" or in the Green Room before teachings, vpw was served coffee in the finest cups.  On grounds, wierwille held lordship and title over his estate.

The twi-compound was not a stately castle or prominent mansion.......but, nonetheless --- servants were everywhere tasked to follow wierwille's demands.  With some 20 years of this GSC-site, we now know many of the secrets and sordid details that the valets and lady's maids kept hidden from view.

Wierwille stumbled and bumbled his way thru life.......and, seemingly, his Dad died about the right time for vpw to pull up stakes in Van Wert and move his operation back to the wierwille homestead.  After about 15 years of meager results (1957-1972)......classes, summer camps, outreach efforts.....wierwille formulated a "leadership training program" with staff support on the 147-acre property.  Incremental steps.....but having peers guide, motivate and inspire other youth seemed to be the ticket forward.  Way Corps 1-5 became a backbone of strength and inspiration.....as the Rock of Ages became a pilgrimage for the youth throughout the 70s and early 80s.

From 1976-1984.....there was exponential growth.  The corps program had "elder corps" who mentored and held seniority over "younger corps."  Servants over servants over servants.  Most recognized that wierwille had devised a tier-system.....and the only way to move upward was to take the advanced class and then, even, go corps.  Even staffers were highly encouraged to go thru the corps program.  Some immediately after corps graduation were reinstated with their old staff position.  Huh?  LOL.  The corps nametag carried its hierarchical status.  The wood-grained staff nametag was treasured.

Of course, those who've read wierwille's corps letters [link]......know that as early as 1977, corps were abandoning wierwille.  The corps-servants were leaving twi.  The staff-servants were moving onto greener pastures.  Only those who are fixated in twi-nostalgia cleave to "good old days."  

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7 hours ago, Twinky said:

Actually, what did for "that way of life" was really the two world wars.  Men were conscripted to fight in the army.  It opened their eyes to new possibilities - as new surroundings always should.  Big landowners couldn't manage the lands as efficiently. 

What's more, there were huge taxes (inheritance tax charged on assets of all kinds - land and houses and possessions) that meant that much had to be sold to pay those taxes.  Huge landholdings were broken up.  This, of course, affected both good landowners and greedy ones who didn't take care of the staff.

 

Unfortunately, nearly all societies have their hierarchies - look at (say) Saudi Arabia, fine if you a male in the royal family, not so good if you are a female, and terrible if you are a national.  Re-read some or George Orwell's work: "All animals are equal... but some animals are more equal than others."

In those "all societies" there are groups, clubs, organisations.   And cults.  All these religious cults seem to have a person of great influence and charisma at the head - usually but not always a male.  And they subjugate their congregations.  And they especially subjugate their female congregants.  TWI, despite its claims otherwise, is nothing special in this regard.  Unfortunately.  An absolutely text-book bog-standard abusive religious cult.

 

I've never seen Downton Abbey (despite it being filmed in part near where I live).  I wonder if they dealt at any stage with the sexual abuse that went on in some households?  The master of the house having his way with the maids?  The sons of the household learning about sexual activity with the maids?  And the casting out of maids who became pregnant, chucking them out with no reference (which pretty much made sure they couldn't get another job) and accepting no responsibility for the child.  Such women were considered morally repugnant - of loose morals and they'd corrupt the household (ie, the lord of the household and his sons).  It was never seen the other way around!

 

Lest you think this was confined to the upper classes of the UK: "No, I did not have sex with that woman!"

Well, since you haven't seen this Downton Abbey series......it does cover two or three situations regarding sexual abuse.  Rape in one situation.  Casting out a maid who became pregnant in another situation.

Like all posts.....there is no way to cover the whole spectrum of "servitude" in one post.  

1 hour ago, OldSkool said:

Well, things are really heating up at TWI -- first I hear that vern, bill, and john get some marbles and vote out rosie the riveter and now they are running PFAL class camps out at camp gunnison?.....eh....new class same as old class....realpolitik. Ciao!

Let me know when they oust donna lombardi martinfail........

Wierwille seemed to love all the pampering and adulation.

Back in the 1970s......wierwille's valet was a devoted man especially with the arrival of Geer.  Not only was he wierwille's valet, but also bus driver, bodyguard, procurer of women, guardian of secrets, loyal servant and caretaker of wierwille's legacy.  Who could ask for anything more?

If wierwille wanted his favorite German meal prepared, then the order was carried out.  When music was desired, Way Productions performed on a Saturday Night on the blacktop near the wierwille home.  In the summer's night air, wierwille liked to engage in a night owl around a meticulous campfire setting where he could sip on his Drambuie coffee and pontificate about his ancestral heritage and spiritual undertakings.  Whether at the "head table" or in the Green Room before teachings, vpw was served coffee in the finest cups.  On grounds, wierwille held lordship and title over his estate.

The twi-compound was not a stately castle or prominent mansion.......but, nonetheless --- servants were everywhere tasked to follow wierwille's demands.  With some 20 years of this GSC-site, we now know many of the secrets and sordid details that the valets and lady's maids kept hidden from view.

How often does twi promote "Come, work on staff at hq" to advanced class students?

How many newly-corps graduates are *assigned* to work staff-servitude at headquarters each year?

Time and again, twi brochures promote the corps program as a lifetime of Christian service.....sending men and women forth to "move the word."  YET, every year it seems that twi assigns 25% - 33% (if 12 graduate from corps, then 3 or 4) are lassoed for staff jobs.  The pay sucks.  The novelty of being around spiritual bigwigs wears off.  No upward mobility to speak of......and who wants to be micro-managed for years?  Besides, if monotony does kill you.....boredom will.

Anyone who has a lick of self-motivation and dignity sees how staff-servitude is a dead-end job.  At the bottom end of a seniority list.....the newly-corps grad must live on grounds in a trailer unit or founders hall.  There is no such thing as a weekend......and surveillance of one's actions is 24/7.  Twi loves to exploit the youth when their energy level is high, perception is generally low.....and they've been trained to obey upon command.  Usually, after two or three years -- the light bulb goes off.

I just finished the Netflix series on Downton Abbey.  I'm sure that they took plenty of liberties to add drama and flare to this 6 Season series (2010-2015)....but there seems to be some documentation to this privileged life in the past few centuries.  Those *above the stairs* were waited on at their beckon call with endless dinners, social events, dignitary gatherings, royalty visits, and pampering at every turn.  Those *below the stairs* had their own caste system of hierarchy.... the butler, valets, footmen, lady's maids, head house manager, head cook, assistants, etc. etc.  And, (spoiler alert)........ by the end of the 6th Season, this way of life (in 1925) is COMING TO AN END.

Those *below the stairs* know that working in service is fading away.  There is NO future in it....for the youth.  They need to find their own way forward to secure their future, livelihood and retirement.  Sure, an old stately butler can live out the remainder of his years basking in his staff-servitude to his lordship.....but that's about all.  The financial troubles of the great castles and prominent mansions are mounting and the structures are under constant repair.  Having 30, 40 or 60 on payroll to sustain the grandeur of its prominence is biting into its longevity.

And, I would contend that twi/staff servitude is the same.  Long gone are the days when 450-490 staffers filled departments ranging from Reflections, Bookstore, Divine Design, Carpeting, Cabinet Shop and Upholstery. Those who live on grounds and receive meager wages for their work will pay the price down the road.  That is why, I believe..... that twi hq is a shell of its former self.  The days of exploiting (most) staffers is over!! People DO NOT STAY....because it is obviously not in their self-interest to stay.  

Those *below the stairs* see how the game is played......and plan accordingly.

23 minutes ago, Twinky said:

I found it really hard when I got out.  I'd hooked up with some exWayfers who were running fellowships in their home: two fellowships in nearby cities.  And one of these exWayers generously allowed me to stay with him while I was in the process of buying my house.  None of these people had been Corps - in fact, I don't even know if any of them had taken the advanced class.  I was pretty broken and smashed about at the time, but they couldn't hear the pain I was in, couldn't hear the things I said.  The female most sympathetic just thought I should get over it; another male thought he could lord it over me; and the one I was staying with seemed to idolise VPW.  None of them would hear a word against VPW, his plagiarism, the stuff that went on at HQ, etc etc. A couple of years later I learned that a lovely young man in one of these fellowships proposed to go and join Sowers. Having read a lot about that here, I took him out for a walk in the park and told him a few home truths about the likely setup, based on what I knew of WC training.  He decided to go ahead anyway but (happily) couldn't get the visa and never went.

I stopped hanging out with these groups before very long - a few months.  And happily I found a very good church where people realised I was hurting about something I wouldn't talk about, and they just gave me space, but kind space.  Still nobody in the church knows my history.  But I do know that that church has become home to quite a few people who have got out from other abusive church relationships - Plymouth Brethren, among other cultish stuff/

Hi Twinky.   Yes, it's alarming to experience that some Christian believers (??) can't hear the pain or know how to support and comfort.  When my wife and I exited twi, several offshoot groups wanted us to join them.  They were offering twi-lite.......warts and all.  Ugh.  No thanks.

Here in Indianapolis......home turf for John Lynn, John Schonheit, Mark Graes3r and others.....splinter cults were everywhere.  One time, when we attended a wedding.....there were people at our reception table (who we had known from years before) in 3 different offshoots. LOL.  We run into people who've left Geer's group, CFF, Finnegan's group, and Panarello's.  Hahahahaha