TheInvisibleDan

Ask a lawyer anyway.

It's amazing to look at Eph.ch.5 now and wonder how the heck I ever bought the bizarre dispensational notion that members of the spiritual church did not comprise the representation of "the Bride", a natural continuation of the same imagery used by the "Bridegroom" Jesus throughout the gospels.

Just a thought.

Now I'll go back to being absorbed into Mahler's Symphony No.2, the "Resurrection" symphony. Oh God I've been wanting this cd for awhile.

If those were only "derbil spurts" behind those composers then I will gladly worship them.

But there are angels inhabiting their symphonies as well.

Danny

Evan and Mark,

Thank you for very much for your thoughts.

Let me clarify that I pose my question with beliefs in mind of B.G. Leonard, Branham and the "oneness Pentecostals" concerning the Godhead brought up earlier in this thread.

Not all Charismatics held to the doctrine of the Trinity as formulated by the councils (with the possible exception of Stiles), though it's striking to consider the common manner in which they considered the "Holy Spirit" as a personality, or another mode of God or Jesus - without reference to the Trinity.

Danny

Let's take a journey to the center of your mind...

Take it away, Ted.

Maybe he had someone else do it for him?

:D-->

Thank you so much Lightside and Alfakat.

Very interesting!

Hi Sirguess,

Thank you. I'm in the same position, not having gotten involved with the old gigantic cult until 1978. I was really touched, when speaking to a couple people who had undergone divine healing (akin to the scale of the old sword and sandal days), but some time had passed since their miracles...but it seemed to be old news by the time I came through the door.

God is Good.

Danny

Greetings -

I've been dying to get some feedback on a "Holy Spirit" question I raised a couple months ago in the "Doctrinal" section (not as popular, I guess), for anyone who was involved in twi before 1978, namely this:

Does anyone recall noticing a drop in the occurrance or frequency of miracles and healings throughout Wayland (allowing for their possibility, despite all the garbage going on), after the first publication of "Jesus Christ is not God"?

I don't mean to derail. But I've taken an interest in how Charismatics (included those from whom VP "borrowed") perceive the Holy Spirit, and am wondering how much effect (if any) JCNG might have had on the works of the Holy Spirit.

Danny

[This message was edited by TheInvisibleDan on February 13, 2004 at 14:35.]

Whoa, that was creepy.

Thank you so much for that link to the upcoming

remake of "The Stepford Wives"!

Danny

Wow, JT -

that's a whole new can of worms I haven't heard raised here before in regard to LCM.

But then again, I don't think we've encountered thus far even one apologist on LCM's behalf, in the same degree as VPW.

At least yet (lol)!

Given the recent, illustrious mutations of Way theology, it wouldn't surprise me if one or two LCM apologists turns up soon.

Surely there must be even one who believes VPW made no mistake when he passed his angel(s) onto LCM, making LCM the new revelation king.

Perhaps they haven't been thrown out of the Way yet.

Danny

quote:

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Originally posted by What The Hay:

Therefore we find trends in history that both follow and parallel the trends from religious history, where many a genius has been destroyed by people of far lesser talent defending the status quo. Before you begin to judge a "biblical innovator" like VPW, it is necessary for you to put him in historical perspective so his views are not clouded by the biased authoritarian religious antagonisitic establishment - whose own track record leaves a heck of a lot to be desired BTW.

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WTH,

It blows my mind to consider once in awhile - in view of our heavily media drenched culture - what materials future historians will (hopefully) have at their disposal -i.e., videos, movies, even internet archives.

I get a weird sensation watching old movies now - what will it be like 200 years from now,

beholding generations of people moving and speaking on a screen (or whatever means they use to view videos in the future), who had long since perished, i.e., "Hey, there's Tom Hanks! He died 200 years ago!" Weird.

Barring any mass book or video-burnings taking place,- or some unforseen cataclysm, historians will certainly have more available to them to work from...but what will they think if having access to both the Way publications and the testimonies in these archives? Or when encountering on the one hand, Whiteside's "Living in Love", and on the other hand, Kahler's "The Cult That Snapped"? They will at least have a few sides from to study the subject of this ancient movement.

I'm hard-pressed to imagine that future historians will regard Vp to the level of a "great innovator", but who knows.

I think he will, however, be mentioned and discussed in the context of 20th century pentecostal movements/ the twilight of the Jesus movement. If any Way scholarly work will be considered, it will most likely be the Syriac Concordance and interlinears.

Certainly one is justified in doubting the reliability of statements made by rival churches against heretical movements in the early centuries of Christianity. Especially if only having the orthodox dissertations penned against those movements, while lacking any surviving works of the movements being attacked, which had long since been destroyed.

But what of the case with today's religious movements with future historians - if they have access to "insider" testimonies and experiences by former members concerning a particular group, in addition to the works by the group itself?

It seems to me that the events transpiring today will not necessarily have the same advantage of the passing and softening of time,

which could have made saints into sinners, and sinners into saints, as was more possible in the Pre-Media era.

Danny

One can also comb through the citations of the writings of the Ante Nicene Fathers, and piece together reconstructions of NT texts in circulation at the time. Nestle-Aland's Novum Testamentum Graece also provides some notes on the variants drawn from the Church Fathers, which offer an excellent glimpse into an earlier state of the NT texts.

In the case of the Syriac versions, presently the only recourse one has for recovering the "Old Syriac" version of Paul's letters (thought to have preceded the P e s h i t t a) is in the commentary of St. Ephraem on his epistles, preserved in an Armenian mss., and thankfully translated into Latin during the 19th century.

Danny

WTH wrotesth:

"My consensus is the next generation will be smarter than either the VPW antagonists or the VPW apologists regardless of how "enlightened" and wise each group considers themselves. The next generation will draw their own conclusions regarding the life and work of VPW."

But that all depends on who writes the history books.

Danny

quote:

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Originally posted by excathedra:

excuse me ? no one can be HOW dense ? haven't gotten past that part of your post

but i have a strong feeling that you and i disagree

be back soon

?

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Don't sweat it, Exie. I've noticed that he does that with everyone with whom he disagrees.

Old Way habits dies hard.

Danny

I would reincarnate him as a red squirrel.

"Do you have a tire iron, friend?"

quote:

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Originally posted by insurgent:

I'm sure they were going after the mature, wealthy individuals. Does anyone remember lcm teaching many times about how upper middle class people were the ones witnessed to in the Bible? He was telling people not to waste their time on people without a job, car or teeth and not to worry about the super rich, but those upper middle class people were the ones we were supposed to be targeting.

---

That is quite a stunning contrast to Jesus' original audience - lepers, prostitutes,

blind folks, crippled folks, "daemonics"

living in graveyards... typical "upper middle class" society (lol)....

I think the Way idea of "serving" was more along the lines of that old Twilight Zone episode, "To Serve Man".

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike:

Dan,

In your time travels, did you notice Paul headed forward to the Third Heaven.

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Absolutely.

And I also saw the Good God descending from hence, "In the 15th Year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar".

Well I went back to the first century, and I didn't see Wierwille anywhere in sight.

I did, however, happen spot a broken down Harley near the 19th century ramp, with Ohio plates.

But damn, I didn't see him anywhere in the first century.

Sorry to break this news to you, Mike.

quote:

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Originally posted by CoolWaters:

Dan! Whoa! 2 bucks, huh? Wanna sell it to me for $4?????? Please??? LOL ;)-->

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Only after I finish reading it -

or trip over an Oxford at the next

tag sale I visit.

:)-->

Danny

quote:

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Originally posted by excathedra:

thanks dan

you are not invisible, you are great

?

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Exie,

You're so sweet. Thank you.

Danny

B.G. Leonard.

J.E. Stiles.

William Branham.

It seems possible to me that one could be either divinely or demonically "possessed".

It is interesting to notice in Webster's Unabridged Dictionary that our English word "giddy" derives from the same Old English word for "God" (gheu) - "giddy"(ghidig) used to mean "possessed by a God". Sorry, I'm "giddy" over my "new" dictionary - all 20 lbs, 3000 pages bolted together of a 1952 edition with a leaf embossed cover in excellent condition, for which I paid a grand total of $2 at a church sale yesterday - God, I love a bargain!

The definition for "genius" is also very interesting: "A guardian deity or spirit of a person...A tutelary deity: the ruling and protecting power of men, places or things; a good or evil spirit supposed to be attached to a person and influence his actions..."

[This message was edited by TheInvisibleDan on February 01, 2004 at 19:04.]

bump