VeganXTC

Ex70's- yeah, its not a good thing to fool around with wild animals, no matter how docile they appear, or how good intentions may be. As far as hunting goes, I think you and I are on opposite sides when it comes to our positions. But I'm all for male bonding. Maybe instead of hunting, you and your friends could work out at the gym, like these guys do. Enjoy!

Not all of us do! :) I agree. My biggest concern is that this thread can turn into something completely different than what was intended. But I have seen other threads do that, and the off-topic part is pulled and turned into a new thread. So, I don't see any harm.

Does love have anything to do with what God says about abortion? In I Samuel, it says that man looks on the outward apperance, but God looks on the heart. Can we say all abortions, without exception, are either wrong or right? Isn't every case different? Isn't what is in the heart of the people who are deciding what to do, abort or not, what determines whether abortion is sin or not? Is forcing someone to have a child godly? Is forcing someone to abort a child godly? I Corinthians says that we can understand everything, and know everything, but if you don't have love you are nothing. A child may or may not be a human being in utero, but if you are not able to teach the child love, than is it godly to continue the pregnancy? Is God less compassionate than his children?

I couldn't read the article. When I clicked on the link, it gave me a 550 error. Is there anyway I could get the address? The message given seems like common sense. It makes me wonder where mine was during my TWI years. TWI was (is?) always talking about how God will meet your needs. Why did TWI rely on us, instead of God to meet their needs? If it is truely a Godly ministry, wouldn't God meet the needs of the ministry without demanding the flock give over 10-15%? Anyway, I would love to learn more about Judaism, and the teachings on giving.

I'll be praying too

A. J. Fecko wrote a piece on animal sacrifice and this is what he wrote about Cain and Able: Others have assumed that animal sacrifices began with Abel. Bible translations typically say that Abel offered the "fat" of his sheep. According to the Documentary Hypothesis the Torah was composed by a number of authors. Many Biblical scholars believe that the account of Abel performing an animal sacrifice is a contradiction between the Yahwist and Priestly authors. It's been said that the account of man being created a vegetarian and only given permission to eat flesh was a view held by the author of the Priestly account called "P", while the author of the Yahwist account called "J" portrays man as a flesh eater at least by the time of Abel since he offers an animal sacrifice. Other writers, whether accepting or rejecting the Documentary Hypothesis, point out that there is no disagreement here since Abel could have performed animal sacrifices, though he himself ate no flesh. Very often it's been held that one of the main points of this account is that God requires blood for expiation of sins. However, there is no reference in the account of Cain and Abel that the purpose of the offerings was to expiate sin. More importantly, there's no reference to Abel offering blood; just a seeming reference to "fat". If a major point in this account is the importance of blood for the forgiveness of sins, wouldn't it make more sense that the blood would be mentioned instead of the fat? However, some early Christians such as the Montanists apparently thought Abel offered the dairy products of his flock: In the second century the African Montanists were sometimes called the "Artotyrites" because they added cheese, instead of wine, to the bread in the Eucharist on the ground that the Aquarii, and first men offered the fruits both of the earth and of their flocks (Gen. iv. 3, 4). http://www.wpl.lib.oh.us/AntiSaloon/print/wine.html Josephus says Abel offered milk: They had resolved to sacrifice to God. Now Cain brought the fruits of the earth, and of his husbandry; but Abel brought milk, and the first-fruits of his flocks: but God was more delighted with the latter oblation, http://www.interhack.net/projects/library/...-jews/b1c2.html There's even some memory of the tradition that Abel offered milk in the mideaval Golden Legend of Jacobus de Voragine. The Hebrew of the Old Testament was originally without vowels. The vowel marks were added at a later time. The particular word render "fat" in the account of Cain and Abel (there are a number of different Hebrew words that mean "fat") is spelled the same as the word for milk and curds. Only the vowels are different. The present Hebrew vowel system didn't come into use until about the ninth or tenth century AD. In fact, it seems likely that when Genesis was written that there was no difference between khay'-leb and kheh'-leb (both of which are spelled cheth - lamed - beth). Both clearly evolved from the same word, and Genesis being one of the oldest Hebrew works, it may be that there was no difference in pronunciation at that time. One way the passage on Cain and Abel may be rendered is: And she gives birth to his brother, even Abel. And Abel is feeding a flock, and Cain was a worker of the earth. And it comes to pass at the end of the season that Cain brings from the fruit of the earth a present to the Lord; and Abel, he has brought, he also, from the female firstlings of his flock, namely from their milk (or possibly curds or milkings); and the Lord looks unto Abel and unto his present. Gen. 4:2-4 The Hebrew word rendered "and" in many translations here most likely means "namely" (This is an example of "hendiadys"). The Septuagint, in the form that it's come down to us, has it that Abel offered from his "fat ones". The point being that Abel offered from his best, while Cain from the worst part of his crop. This is especially clear since we also read in the Septuagint that the Lord said "Hast thou not sinned if thou hast brought it rightly, but not rightly divided it? be still, to thee shall be his submission, and thou shalt rule over him." Gen. 4:7 LXX. It may, indeed, be true that Cain offered the most defective portion of his harvest, however, the Hebrew author here seems to be emphasizing a different point. It's the fact that Abel's offering was the product of the firstborn of his flock, whereas Cain's came "at the end of days", that is, at the "end of the season" that Abel's offering is preferred. Not only the firstborn, but the first-fruits are treated as sacred in the Old Testament. Because there was a sign of God's favor on Abel's offering of his dairy products, Cain was jealous and killed Abel. Here God gives the first commandment regarding a murder "Whoever kills Cain will suffer a sevenfold vengeance." Gen 4:15 NRSV.

OMG Sudo! I laughed so hard, I thought I was going to wake up the neighborhood! Hey Roy! That's really wierd about that dog, eh? A true freak accident. I think its so cool you guys were vegan for a while. I watched "Chew on This" two years ago, February, and that was it. The food options are so much better now. They are more widely available, and taste so much better. So, its alot easier now.

Sudo, you really surprised me. But what a great surprise! Wait a minute! I saw a picture of you kissing a puppy. You're a secret vegan, aren't you?!? I'll be looking for you in the next issue of Animal Times!

I don't feel that supressing someone's voice is respectful. Are there guidelines that everyone needs to follow? Do we need certain a majority of people on this thread to continue with the subject? Pond does contribute greatly to this thread. Maybe not in a chronological order, but she does bring up doctrinal points. It was Pond who cause me to consider what Exodus 21:22-25 was really trying to teach, and maybe these verses have no place in a thread about abortion. I learn from Pond, and I learn from WordWolf, and I learn from all posters here. I think we all are valid, and should have a voice.

If someone were to ask me what I thought happened after we died a short while ago, I would have had a definite answer. But now I don't know what to think. I heard many stories like yours, NotinKansas, from people I trust. Have you seen the movie "The End of the Spear"? A missionary dies, and he, and two non-christian tribesmen, all see spiritual beings coming for him. I know its just a movie, but it was based on a true story. I'll have to find out if it happened in real life. We were taught to ask what's the profit. Well, in the movie, the tribesmen were led to Christ. For NotinKansas, millions (if you count future generations) of people are saved. Pretty Godly profit, IMHO.

Congradulations for such a successful fund raiser! And a big woo-hoo for getting booth of the year! That's really awesome. Its nice to see so many different kinds of people who obviously care about their companion animals. Lucky Lucca, and the other dogs. They all had happy faces! Thanks for sharing the pictures! And thanks for all your hard work! You brightened my day!

Wow! My favorite one was the deer video. And I think every guy I know would love to have that rocket launcher! Thanks for sharing!

Oooo Pond! I sooo agree with you! These verses (Exodus 21:22-25) tell us nothing about abortion, only what the punishment should be for men fighting, and causing harm.

What amazes me is how Exodus 21:22, 23 almost always were referred to when teaching about abortion, no matter which side you are on. I always wondered why the mischief couldn't mean harm to the woman. Good night, we've all heard stories about women dying while giving birth in normal circumstances, can you imagine a woman giving birth with men fighting around her? In Biblical times? And can you imagine the blow it would take for a woman to give birth prematurely?When I was pregnant, I sure was clumsy, but I didn't lose either of my children. The fetus/baby is very well protected in utero. So the fight surely was much bigger than a couple of guys duking it out. If there was NO harm to the woman, I would be surprised. Thanks, T-Bone for posting that exerpt from Christian Theology. This is the first time I have ever heard a Christian Theologian ever address the mother. Sorry that this is off topic!

God called him a baby. A baby's a child. If he were thus killed, it's child-murder.

Bliss, I looked at at site called "Hebrew Concordance with Strong's Numbering" and found the word "chayah". However I couldn't find it listed in refrence to Genesis 1:24, 25. Did I miss it somewhere? (My eyes aren't what they used to be, lol!) http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/CONHEB242.htm I do see where the word for beast in Genesis 1: 24, 25 is "chay" which comes from chayah. If we do a word study of all the places chayah is used, or even just chay, we might come up with something besides carnivore. Even so, all the references that are used occured after the flood. Ok, I found where you got your post. I'll take a look at it. Thanks!

I don't think animals became carnivorous until after the flood. And I don't think it was because of sin, because I don't feel that animals are able to sin. But animals became carnivorous because man ate flesh after the flood, and God demanded life for life. The story's in Genesis 9.

I know my parents definitely influence my decision to become involved with TWI. My father was the drill sargent parent, to the point where it was abuse. But back then it was called discipline. I don't know if he was the reason though. I never thought about it. Maybe. But as mean as my father was, that's how nice my mother was(is!) I worshiped her. And when she took the PFAL class, and she told me it would be a good thing if I took it. So, I did. Yeah, maybe if my father wasn't such a jerk, I wouldn't have ever heard of TWI.

A couple whom I have known all my life, and whom I love very much were once involved in TWI. When they were nearing retirement age, they decided to buy a house in Florida. They worked very hard for five years, picking up overtime when they could, and in five years time, were able to pay off a morgage for a small house in Florida. They moved to Florida, debt free before the policy was even thought of. When they came, they found a fellowship, and became active in it. They spoke the word to everyone they met, went to meetings, abundantly shared of their money and time, and did all with thanksgiving. Basically, they did everything and more than they were asked to do. Well, when the debt free policy came about, the twig coordinators of this couple called them, and asked them how much they owed on the house, and on their cars, and other things. And the couple replied, "None of your business." Shortly afterwards, Rev. Moneyhands sent them a letter, telling them they were no longer welcome at TWI, and they would be happier at church. Now, tell me where in the Word does it say that twig coordinators need to know your financial business, and where does it say that ordained clergy should insult people who have given everything with gladness? I guess in TWI's twisted world. This debt free policy isn't all about how much money you owe, but about how much control TWI can have over you. Belle, I hope the people who PM you get out quickly.

In your first post, you said that Sister Regina Marie wouldn't allow you to become an alter boy. Do you think she knew something and was trying to protect you, or was it that she didn't want your talent to go to waste? And where were you in Indiana? I grew up in southside Indianapolis.

Ron, you are too funny! And thanks HAPe, for the link. I'm off to retemorize the names of his work.

I love Escher! My favorite is the one where the birds turn into fish. The one where he's holding a mirrored ball is cool too. In fact, I don't think I ever saw an Escher print that I didn't like. I just wish I knew the titles of his work. But seriously, did the ministry think you could get possesed from looking at his art? Was anything safe?

<_<

I'm glad you were playing Army. Its much better to pretend to shoot people than to pretend to shoot animals! JUST KIDDING!!! You sure were a cutie!

I'd like to ask a question! Is your avatar a picture of you when you were a little boy? Are you holding a gun? I hope your shooting tin cans off of a fence post and not shooting animals! Either way, I think you're great!