potato

I wonder if all those members are staff people? I can't remember who's eligible for membership.

I wonder what those assets are? that seems too low to include land and improvments unless they're insanely undervalued.

they have a column for camp gunnison on their financial statement but it sure doesn't look like the assets are on there. I wonder what camp gunnison does if it's not part of twi? is it just a vacation property now? a few years ago they let people come in about once a month, and they appeared to treat it as if it's part of twi proper, not a separate corporation. if it's separate, it must be a big money-loser at this point.

I can barely read the information (bad eyesight plus I don't understand accounting). does it give numbers for ABS, and does anyone know how many people were on payroll for that fiscal year?

this reminds me that I've never seen staying alive (although I absolutely love the song by the bee gees!) so I should go rent it. I thought AOS was stupid the first time I saw it. I didn't know who lcm was and when I complained about what an awful dancer he was and why would anyone let him dance the lead, I was soundly chastised and told that he was a football player who so wanted to serve god that he learned to dance just so he could dance in that production.

this one particularly strikes home for me. not that the hitting and name calling, the controlling of my every activity and thought wasn't enough, but to destroy the things that I owned that defined me as a person or tied me in any way to other people or places... it was a way to destroy who I was and make me into what they wanted.... both twi and my ex-husband.

even if twi seems more kind, it's the cycle they use to recruit and hold onto members. it may seem like a watered down version of the lcm reign, but the high-level scheming is still there and the general population is either asleep or the same self-righteous jerks they've been for the past 30 years. I've read that criminals will commit crimes after release from long incarcerations because they're so used to life on the inside that they can't adjust to the responsibilities of being free. it's more comfortable to go back to twi and sleepwalk through life than deal with real life. I can say that I've felt so completely out of place outside of twi that I felt like seclusion was my only option. I didn't have self-confidence or the social skills to build a new life outside of twi for a long time. I can see how someone would want to go back because after years of conditioning that's the only place they feel comfortable. twi hasn't really changed, people go back because they just don't want to put time and work into changing themselves. the world seems to hard because there are too many choices. by comparison, twi seems easy, and so much nicer than it was when lcm was raping and pillaging. I got past it by finding people like I spent time with before I got involved in twi and found out that the girl I was 22 years ago is the real me, not the fake christ in me that twi molded. seems kinda silly to have to go back to acting like a college girl, but it healed me. also, seeing my younger child avoid the damage my older one sustained just because she's not being raised in a cult is the one thing that makes the discomfort worth it. maybe people thinking about going back should think about that. it might be more comfortable for YOU because it's what you're used to, but do you really want to suffocate your children and make them into little robots?

I heard about that, too. so sad! the way twi treats people is shameful, and evil. it was understood that if we needed to kill for twi, we would take the fall individually to protect the ministry.

me too.

the David wanna-be sounds like an evil man. I'm glad you're watching out for your son and for the early warning signs, because if the splinter leader turns him against you, you could get full custody on grounds of parental interference. courts don't look too kindly on religious groups alienating young children from their parents. freedom of religion is not a minor's constitutional right so a family court isn't bound by law to ignore it if it's damaging to your child.

I was talking to someone special to me today about living so many years inside a cult, and he said as much as he wanted to, he couldn't empathize because my experiences were so extraordinary and strange that to try to put himself in my shoes was impossible. he does sympathize, however, and was very helpful to me when I wanted to get out of twi. I can empathize with what you said, cheranne.

yes, it's fabulous that they have the legal right to take their "alleged" accusers to court! what a novel idea. wonder why they don't? they have the money to buy legal representation, unlike the people who they used and hurt. we know who paid the legal costs for LCM's crimes. I didn't have money to bring a suit before the statute of limitations ran out on me, and with no recordkeeping and closed doors, all witnesses in my case would have committed perjury lest the ministry be blamed. facts of life.

I never saw a gun in a meeting, but we were all expected to own one and know how to shoot it, and preferably to carry it legally in our vehicles (i.e. with ammo in separate area, unloaded and safety on) when traveling in case of civil unrest or natural disaster.

absolutely wonderful post, and I had to highlight the above because it is SO TRUE!

I think it could be either. but if someone on staff calls enough people "dangerous with brains as full of holes as swiss cheese", maybe they just forget who've they've told that and who they haven't, so their claim of forgetting is not the act itself, just the who where when?

since I went out wow and completed my apprentice corpse year during the lcm reign of terror, and was married to a moglet wannabe, I most certainly hurt people. because I followed directives, there is no way my hands are clean. to what extent, I don't know. it makes me sad to think of some of the things I said to people in the name of the "ministry". to anyone I hurt, I am truly sorry. I won't list names and I can't list mine, so sadly personal apologies are probably out of the question, but I would if I could. an ex-corpse couple apologized to me once. so did a joe-blow believer for thinking evil of me after my ex destroyed my rep. they were the only ones.

I'm glad to hear that. there are so many times I've held my kids while they cried over something their dad did or said, and just told them that it hurt me they were going through it and they didn't deserve to be treated that way. they'll grow up healthier by being validated, I think. I've never subscribed to the popular bandaid "your daddy loves you in his own way" bull****. I never make excuses for him, and I don't bash him, but I do tell my kids when something's not right. I want their expectations about love to be realistic, based on respect, and not see them grow up thinking someone loves you just because they say they do then treats you like garbage.

I agree with all your advice, but I disagree with your initial terminology. being an active participant in your child's well-being is far different than the passive "these things have a way of working themselves out". they really don't have a way of working themselves out, what happens is the manipulative parent works circumstances and the kids to their own ends - THEY work it out - so the last thing you should do as the other parent is be passive. it's a tough situation. I almost lost my son, permanently, because of how aggressively my ex went after me. kids take a lot of collateral damage. I won't list other things my child went through because of who lurks on this board, but I will tell you, there is irreparable damage. I still keep fighting for the best outcome because I have to for the sake of my kids.

sadly, they don't always work themselves out. when one parent is determined to win and views the kids as a tool to get what they want, all kinds of irreparable damage is done. so it's more than just "hang in there"... it's "keep fighting for your child's well-being".

the fact that lcm's birthday is on election day sort of makes an imprint on your mind when you're reminded year after year. luckily I forgot as there is another, more unpleasant association with 11/4 in my mind, but it was certainly made a big enough deal over the years I can imagine it'd be difficult to forget.

this makes me so, so sad. I'm not the praying type any more, but I do pray that your wife and child will be delivered.

I saw those same tactics used in the remote fellowship I was in, but especially by the RCs (3 in a row). they were the worst at lying about people and humiliating them for not doing or thinking as they were told.

I hope at 60 my legacy is something much more positive than his. how sad that his triumphal days were spent hurting people and now he's a nobody. I hope he speeds along to permanent oblivion and is forgotten.

oh SNAP! thank you, rascal.

I love you, excie. I know we're not friends but I am eternally thankful you're here because you're one of the people who helped me get out of twi, who helped me be brave enough to sever the chains. I don't really have friends either because I usually feel like the odd one out and like I don't understand what's going on out in the "real" world, and living isolated for so many years makes it hard to relate to people who've lived their whole lives free from cultish abuse. my last experience with someone who went back was that I was really disappointed and kind of lost. we'd left together, but then she found a twi fellowship where she felt like there was separation from the HQ bull**** that made us want to leave, and then she got married to an innie, and we haven't really spoken since because of intense panic attacks over the possibility she might try to get me to go back. it's ok though, I still love her even though I let the friendship go.