potato

har har!! an id10T error caused the surplus of downforce, no doubt. and ditto

if we want to know about her kids, we should ask the nanny who raised them.

no, that's rosie's squeeze, if eye-witness reports are accurate.

((((((((((rascal))))))))))!!!

it is great, isn't it? the best part is that I don't have to justify my questions to anyone. they're mine I love the points you bring up. I put a lot of thought into this yesterday/last night/this morning, and came up with a couple topics of study that unfortunately sound way too deep for my life at the moment, so it will be extremely slow going: what is the meaning of the word Logos in cultural/philosophical context? what did Abraham, Isaac and Jacob believe about God and the messiah? God has not changed, so there are keys to this puzzle in what came before, as someone already pointed out.

T-bone, thanks. I love questions. they give me things to consider and your questions are very, very good. I think I like questions better than answers right now. an answer is something you arrive at after many questions, not just one or two.

absolutely Notta. I think the pain of both are very similar. it may be that the process is really the same one, identified by different words. it's a way of separating from our pain and letting it go, accepting that it happened and cannot be changed. American Heritage Dictionary for·give 1. To excuse for a fault or an offense; pardon. 2. To renounce anger or resentment against. 3. To absolve from payment of (a debt, for example). I do not excuse them. I do not absolve them. renouncing anger is a process, and a healthy goal, but I do it so they don't take up more of my brain than I want them to and I don't call it forgiveness because their slate isn't clean in my book. I'd still push the button.

my question isn't "what is the trinity" or some biblical proof of 3 in 1. my question is how, and why? the why is very important. if God needed a man to redeem mankind, why did he have to come to earth himself in the flesh? the only reason I can think of is that no one could do a better job than the guy who sold us down the river, Adam. so, if the job could only be done by God, why did he wait so long? ah yes... now I understand the significance of the Mother of God thing, and why some christian sects worship her... man's redemption hinged on the existence of one woman. however, I can't remember reading that our redeemer had to be divine, only that he had to be a man. the explanation that he simply chose not to be omniscient seems like trying to squeeze him into the role of God in the flesh, literally, rather than God in the flesh, figuratively. when you need Jesus to be God, there are all kinds of ways to force his divinity. you can explain God's lack of omniscience in Jesus by making omniscience a choice. Jesus' death becomes something other than death in fact. those points make no sense in the whole, so as a whole, the idea of Jesus as God doesn't make sense to me.

same here, FFC. I can forgive individuals their past actions against me, if they are actually repentent. they don't even have to apologize to me directly. I'm not forgiving twi and the leaders who shield it until they come clean. period. I'm in a process of moving on and eventually I'll think very little about them. for now, I have to consider them every day in my reactions to the simplest of things. God can forgive them, that's up to him. I just don't. if someone offered me the button, I'd push it.

ain't that the truth! I can't believe how much free time I have to just think and consider compared to what I did... I went from zero to about 30 minutes a day almost as soon as I left. for someone taking care of all the business I am, that's a lot. not only the time, but the FREEDOM to think. I love that. I'm not good at it yet, but before twi I was smart and I'm recovering it as I go. same here, Roy. that old habit of having to be right at any cost, including giving up my own beliefs and dreams, will die hard. I was in twi for 20 years. it tood a long time to build that arrogant righteousness, but I'm working on getting rid of it

they've always pushed the line... I think they've always had to push people to find out where it is... a few suicides here, divorces there... then oops, we just lost most of our people, guess we can't do THAT again. if twi weren't a "church" its leaders would be behind bars. only their tax status protects them from financial accountability, and their mafia behavior protected them from the rest of it. seems like they've only backed off recently. now that they have their house built, there is no reason to work toward anything. no one will be asked to do much of anything from here on out, although the expectation for the devoted to go corps is still there.... or maybe I just got good at tuning out their dogging?

ah, sonofarthur. I like you. this is the first thing you've said that makes me think that we can both eat at the same table... even if I disagree with the above statement! I am not willing to say I think I'm right and you're wrong. all I can say is based on the evidence I have at hand, I believe Jesus is not God. call me wishy-washy or lukewarm if you will, but twi dealt in absolutes and on many things I simply cannot at the moment consider them in absolutes and I can no longer say with utter conviction on many things "you are wrong". I have not had the time or opportunity to reassess some things to see how much adjustment they need. God and Jesus have been stripped to their bare existence in my mind, to the simplest of what they said they are. I refuse at this time to embellish them. I accept I know little about them. the bible and other writings fail to explain them to the extent I would like to know them. I accept much cannot be known in this life. I refuse to know them through the twi filter. I have embraced the concept of the continuum for many things I used to believe in absolutes. I have a lot of data to sift through to see how my change in view will effect my perception and relationship with God and Jesus. that's why I say, I believe Jesis is not God but I will not say you're wrong.

at one time I thought it was worth fighting for, regardless of cost. I was deluded. I don't think I could have killed someone unless I felt like my life would be in danger if I didn't. lately, looking back on it, I think if LCM had pulled my ex into a little room and told him to smother me in my sleep because I was a liability, he would have done it.

HARSH!!! I'm a mac user and I got it. GOSH. I have an F1 key. I DID click the link in apprehension, anticipating twisted steel, etc. instead I got my first good laugh of the day.

that would be me! I could modify how I feel about the use of the word heresy... if you mean simply "out of the mainstream system of belief", fine. however, your further elaboration reveals that you believe I, a heretic, have been driven away from God at the least, and have rejected the truth of the gospel at the worst. my "outside of the mainstream" belief (so judged by people holding a different belief) has made me a "truth" rejecter. you also said: "The truth on this subject IS knowable in the sense that we can know the truth of each element of the Nicene Creed (i.e. either Jesus is God or is not, either Jesus and the father are distinct in some way or they are indistinguishable, etc.)" how can you have an honest discussion with someone who doesn't believe the trinity the way you do, when you opening confess that you believe they are deluded? seems like it would be like trying to understand a crazy person. according to you, I should be able to plainly see the elements of the nicene creed in scripture. I cannot. I'm sorry. I see no chance for honest discussion here because no matter what I say, I'm wrong until I see the truth of the nicene creed in scripture. you might as well just soapbox and see who cheers.

I have to stand up and say I think why the book is wanted may be relevant to whether or not someone feels inclined to give this guy THEIR copy, but I don't think it's right to judge someone for WHY they want a book. studying materials because you disagree with the POV is perfectly legitimate. people are allowed to read and critique books they don't agree with. they're allowed to read books so they understand their opponent's position before a debate. scholarly inquiry often demands becoming familiar with ideas we don't agree with. there, I said my piece now I'll stop being mad.

I feel very discouraged about honest discussion when words like "heresy" and "truth" are used in lieu of "belief" and "doctrine".

that was so awesome I read the help wanted ad to my older kid!

thanks guys. I just realized maybe it was different in the early early years, but waysider is right. the motivations were probably the same through the years... now I think you'd have to be off your rocker to go in, but if I was still in and thought I was really living for God by giving my all to twi, I'm sure it would make sense to go in the corps even now. scary thought, that.

sorry, I should probably not have posted. I wasn't an "early" corps recruit.

actually, that verse didn't come to my mind at all. I'm a bit offended that you would assume I build my concept of christ on one verse, especially when I haven't given you my study list. seems a bit judgmental. I was simply offering my viewpoint on the problem I have with understanding the trinity as a believable concept, not really inviting a personal attack of my methods for arriving at the conclusions I presently hold. feel free to disagree with me, and by all means feel free to explain why you disagree, but please refrain from assuming you know the specific why and how of my beliefs unless I explain them to you. if I speak in general terms, then don't assume more than that, OK? in reality, there is a lot of the bible that causes me to beg the question, although posting the question wasn't a request for a stock answer, of a type with which I'm very, very familiar, having heard it many times (at least it looks like you're attempting to explain to me who Christ is in very simplistic terms, as if I'm a child - if you've changed subjects and are not, but are simply stating YOUR beliefs, you can ignore the rest of this): it works for you, but it really doesn't for me. the term "God incarnate" makes no sense to me, and has never, ever been explained so that it seems anything but contrary with the one-ness of God, which does make sense to me. God in the flesh doesn't explain God in the spirit while he was in the flesh, or it doesn't explain God in the flesh, either.

yes, a piece of equipment valued at $100,000.00.

same here. my then-husband was convinced he had a calling to lead, and he was very popular. to be a good wife, I had to back him up. I thought I was serving God. my life was just a long downhill slide once we went WOW, then even worse after entering and being kicked out of the corps program... but I kept trying to be "God's Best", until I just couldn't bear it anymore. by then I'd wasted about 15 years of my life. it was all pretty much a loss, until I told my now-ex I would no longer follow him around the country as he had no leadership ability and I would never go in the corps program again and suffer what I'd already suffered. it was the first stand I took against him, and especially guilt-ridden because of the teachings that once you promise something, you don't break it... saying I wouldn't go back in was like saying I welcome death. but, it was at that time that, when I took that stand, that I slowly started to dig out. it took years and was mostly a secret mission because I felt like God was not with me because I was disobedient to leadership, and disobedient to my now-ex-husband. now I can happily say I didn't waste my time in-residence. apprentice year was a heavy enough burden, and the aftermath of getting kicked out was hell. anything more would have likely killed me.

I couldn't PM someone until I added them as a friend. it didn't used to work that way.

if I were taking the last name strange, I'd be the 48th person with my name. I meant "it's strange" :) somehow I think you know that though.... <_<