Larry N Moore

One of my professors got in a lot of trouble for that in his younger days..

In school, he sold tapes to fellow students. Said they had the lessons implanted on them subliminally, and if they listened to the tapes and studied, they'd get better grades, money back guarantee. It really worked..

Until the people who ran the university found out.. and further found out they were really blank tapes..

:) Yeah, but . . . I imagine the students didn't care. They still made the grade.

The real scary part of this.. some who were and are in that organization agreed and agree with him ... that he was ENTITLED. It was a service which was OWED.

The only thing a mog is entitled to is esteem for the labor they do in the Word. Any labor they do which is not is not to be esteemed. It's scary that some/many can't see the difference. Scary, but not surprising.

Well.. as a canned "rememdy".. I can't see how it's any better than one of Granny's all fire sure cold cures.. take it, and inside of three or four weeks, you'll be like a spring chicken, no matter how bad the cold..

It's amazing how well a placebo will work in some cases. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo_effect

Thank you, Larry.

:unsure: I'm not sure what for but, you're welcome Dan.

Like much of TWI - what they said and what they did were two totally different things..... you do remember the classes 100% devoted to devil spirits, don't you? No, I don't. I remember sections of classes devoted to devil spirits. DTA and many AC specials.... don't even get me started on the number of STS tapes on nothing but devil spirit infiltration and the devil spirit possessed egg sucking world.

Do you remember the book "Angels of Light"? I think it was the book that detailed what devil spirit was involved in the behavior of people. Interesting book but, anyone reading it could quite easily forget that it takes the manifestation of discerning of spirits to determine the presence or non-presence of spirits and if present the identity of the spirit. It became a case where people were analyzing behavior and via sense knowledge determining the type of spirit. I suppose with such knowledge none of us really needed the manifestation of discerning of spirits. Some people couldn't handle reading that book because they started looking at themselves and wonder if they were possessed. Like I said -- interesting book -- but devoid of authority. If we can use a book's info to determine what devil spirit is present in an individual then why would God give us the ability to operate the manifestation of discerning of spirits?

I remember an occasion where a TC brought to fellowship someone who scared the crap outta everyone. He was a bit weird. The TC came to me a little while after the fellowship and asked if I would take the man home. Everyone else (he said) was afraid to get into a car with the man because they thought he was devil spirit possessed. I said sure -- no problem. I had a pretty good conversation with him on the way home. He was polite and thanked me for the ride home. I think their fear was a result of all this sense-knowledge info and definitely a sign of their lack of trust in God. So tell me -- in their case -- who was glorified -- God or the Devil?

Private interpretation is what it looks like to me. *shrug* Based on TWI's "keys to research" anyway.

You think so? I disagree.

The legalism, imo, is from TWI's end, not those saying that the bible doesn't teach it.

And, you must have been in a very, very, very different TWI than I was.

Perhaps.

Not speaking in tongues was NOT allowed - I've seen people kicked out of TWI for not speaking in tongues and people put on probation for not doing it "well enough".

I've even been told to "work with" people they thought needed to do it better - guess they forgot vee pee's "gutteral" explanation and that it's the spirit that gives the utterance....

I've seen people who appeared to be struggling with the manifestations -- some would freeze up and not finish what they started. I'd say such people needed to be "work[ed] with" but that doesn't necessarily mean you had to have an excelling session. Maybe if people spent more time asking God, instead of leaders, what they should do more people would have been helped to overcome their fear or doubts.

Again, what they said and what the did were two totally different things usually. <_<

Yep.

John, if you can't come up with scripture, then all you got is rhetoric - and that can be found on every street corner be it in a church or in a bar. <_<

"Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?"

I don't see anything in the above scripture that prohibits you from speaking in tongues in an excelling session. In fact imo it implies Paul could have ". . . come unto you speaking in tongues . . . ." The point isn't that one couldn't speak in tongues among other believers but rather what is the profit. Some people -- myself for one -- profited from excelling sessions. All of this talk about excelling sessions being wrong seems to be a product of legalism (and I don't recall anyone being forced to participate -- in fact I remember one incident where someone chose not to and they didn't). If the Bible doesn't say you can't do it then how can you say it's wrong?

I was driving through the parking lot of a WalMart once and was buhleeving for a parking place right up near the front door...

Need, not greed my friend. ;)

If you want instant gratification, don't go to college..

buy a lottery ticket. Of course, not very many will be instantly gratified..

Quite right, Mr. Squirrel. I wonder though -- How many college students would continue their education if they hit the lottery jackpot. I also wonder how many college students working towards a certain degree -- like in education -- give up on finding a job in that field and go to work for Walmart. ;)

I think that while reliance on Gracious living is essential, there's a side of all of life's benefits that require effort. Basically, we gotta do the work. Or at least look busy. Things drop in our laps, go our way, flow towards us and away from us and all I can do is be thankful.

But if I sit around and wait with high expectations, that isn't being fully engaged in life, I think. Life isn't a point and shoot kind of thing. There's some setup, tear down. Shipping and receving. Work. Good ol' fashioned effort. Adjustments being made, fine tuning.

Like harmony in the home. After 36 years of marriage, I'd say that takes some effort. You have to put your back into it, figuratively speaking. I can't point to a class as the cause of the result. But there was some information that helped, I can say that.

Excellent points socks! Excellent indeed.

Your post brought to mind how many in today's society have fallen victims of the instant gratification syndrome. We want it NOW! And if they (the victims) don't get it now they simply give up and conclude that it's not available.

Okay. I thought of another incident that might fit the bill.

About 12 yrs ago, the company I work for was planning to shut down one of the five plants it operates. So I prayed about it.

Initially I asked God to intervene to prevent the plant I worked in from being chosen for shutdown. Afterwards, I got to thinking about it. What if there was another believer asking God that the plant he worked at wouldn't be shutdown? That would present a problem. How could God answer my prayer and not the other's if we were both believing for the same thing? So I changed my prayer.

I asked God to intervene to prevent any of the plants from shutting down. But I added one caveat. I said that if that's not possible then let it be mine. I told Him I believe that even if I lost my job He was still my sufficiency and I'll get another job.

The company suddenly changed it's mind due to a great influx of new business. So I kept my job and if there was another believer praying that his plant wouldn't be shutdown kept his as well.

Coincidence? Could be. But I believe otherwise.

What was available wasn't my job at that plant. What was available was any job that would meet my financial needs. How to receive it -- trusting God to come through.

Establishes and maintains a positive attitude. Yep.

makes life meaningfull Yep.

Overcomes worry and fear Yep, taught me the keys to do so.

Promotes prosperity and health Yep. Doesn't guarantee it though.

Explains apparent bible contradictions Yep. It explained some but not all. But then again the class wasn't meant to teach on all the scriptures from Genesis 1:1 through Revelations 22:21

Developes more harmony in the home I wasn't married at that time but I've applied the principles from it when I did and yep.

Enables you to seperate truth from error Yep.

Disciplines the mind by believing Yep.

Teaches how to pray effectively. Yep.

Grouchy, sorry I started that tangent with Lou Rawls. I had no idea Larry would post the lyrics to Stairway to Heaven, honest!

*sigh*

"Green Card" I guess I'm really going to have to look at that thing again and see if I can come up with anything. BTW socks -- great post.

Yes- and--No

:blink:

ANECDOTES!!!!

Oops, was that too loud?

We need anecdotes.

There ought to be a gazillion of them, one would think.

Mr. B.---- your example was, in fact, an anecdote.

Keep 'em comin'!

Larry takes a moment to let the ringing in his ears to subside . . . . :)

Let me see if I understand you correctly. Are you saying that you only want anecdotes and no comments or discussion about them?

Fine with me...there are people who enjoy derailing threads...for "whatever" reson.

Hey! If Dan wants to bring to the thread non-related pictures and whatnot I'm fine with that. ;)

Whole Lotta Love was written by Willy Dixon(like so many other blues/rock classics) and popularized by Muddy Waters in the early 1960s. Originally it was called You Need Love". As with a lot of early bands from the UK, most of Zep's material was reworked and vamped up "blues" that they "borrowed".

Many of these old tunes have lyrics that feature men strutting and boasting and bragging about their manhood.

Singing these songs was one of the few ways they had to release the frustration of having to spend their days being called "boy" and having to kowtow to "The Master".

"Now I'm a Man.

That's spelled M.---A.---N.

No B.--O.--Y."

Another great Willy Dixon tune that Muddy did was "I Just Want To Make Love To You" which the Stones later popularized.

Muddy reprized it on his Electric Mud album in the late sixties.

If you ever have a chance to hear it, you will probably giggle the next time you hear old Mick sing it.

It will definitely seem milk toast in comparison.

Now where were we?

Oh, yeah--- The Green Card.

I guess this idea of "borrowing" material is really nothing new.

Indeed! Many rockers roots/influence was Blues. :)

Oh yeah, the "Green Card." I was wondering about that myself when I noticed the direction Dan was taking the thread in. ;)

...and you really believe what you posted?...

Groucho you're not required to believe it but you can at least consider it and let me know if you think that what others tell you doesn't have a psychological effect on what you believe. And if you believe a certain thing -- like you might be dead at such and such a time if you will do anything which might just bring it to pass. Think about it a bit (and maybe do a little googling on the subject of psychological effects pertaining to health).

Haven't seen anything convincing. Like I said, the ones who claim to have been healed are simple practicing the art of deception.

Well, if you haven't seen anything I guess that means you haven't seen anything. Yet, I don't know how you can believe those who claim they are/have been healed are lying to themselves.

If the Bible really teaches a "Law of Believing". No.

Bolshevik, if you're agnostic or atheist it doesn't matter to me. Do you believe this:

God in the beginning . . .

Do you believe God created all that we see?

Larry, and "Whole Lotta Love."

I always thought that song was a bit sexist and derogatory towards women. Like they were sex-objects instead of people. So, no, I don't think that was a great song. :)

one more, bro:

Led Zeppelin! Weren't they the ones who sang "Stairway to Heaven"?

http://www.led-zeppelin.com/EMl4.html

Stairway To Heaven

(Page/Plant)

There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold

And she's buying a stairway to heaven.

When she gets there she knows, if the stores are all closed

With a word she can get what she came for.

Ooh, ooh, and she's buying a stairway to heaven.

There's a sign on the wall but she wants to be sure

'Cause you know sometimes words have two meanings.

In a tree by the brook, there's a songbird who sings,

Sometimes all of our thoughts are misgiven.

Ooh, it makes me wonder,

Ooh, it makes me wonder.

There's a feeling I get when I look to the west,

And my spirit is crying for leaving.

In my thoughts I have seen rings of smoke through the trees,

And the voices of those who stand looking.

Ooh, it makes me wonder,

Ooh, it really makes me wonder.

And it's whispered that soon if we all call the tune

Then the piper will lead us to reason.

And a new day will dawn for those who stand long

And the forests will echo with laughter.

If there's a bustle in your hedgerow, don't be alarmed now,

It's just a spring clean for the May queen.

Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run

There's still time to change the road you're on.

And it makes me wonder.

Your head is humming and it won't go, in case you don't know,

The piper's calling you to join him,

Dear lady, can you hear the wind blow, and did you know

Your stairway lies on the whispering wind.

And as we wind on down the road

Our shadows taller than our soul.

There walks a lady we all know

Who shines white light and wants to show

How everything still turns to gold.

And if you listen very hard

The tune will come to you at last.

When all are one and one is all

To be a rock and not to roll.

And she's buying a stairway to heaven.

Great song!

Ok waysider -- that seems reasonable. I wouldn't be surprised though if some good soul doesn't bring up what the Bible says on the subject and when that happens you're moving into the field of theology.

Anyways -- it's a good topic. I hope you get some good responses.

Awh shucks AD. :) That's nice considering I don't start many :)

Larry, I can't recall a HQ directed teaching on not talking too much about dvspirits. It def could've been shared locally though.

Well, I don't know who originally taught it but I do know it was something I taught. I just don't remember the specifics these days. I remember people thinking that devil spirits were like hiding behind every bush or back-alley and talked so much about that that my thinking and speech was -- Look here folks, shouldn't you be speaking about the power of God instead of the power of devil spirits so much?

My 90-year-old grandmother is currently used as proof of negative believing equals receiving. She says she may not live much longer, a negative confession. So, sometime in the next 10 or 20 years she is expected to fall asleep, due to her negative confession of course.

Considering the fact that there are records in the Bible of people living way past 100, 200, or more years -- it might be a negative confession. But given the fact that it's stated by others that you only have so many years to live -- what's the average age for a woman these days? -- it might just be the case that she's believing what others tell her her life-expectancy should be and she thinks she's outlived that statistic by way too many years.

I vaguely recall someone teaching (in TWI) that when we speak too much about devil spirits (and their power) we glorify the Devil instead of glorifying God's power over the devil spirit realm. Anyone else recall hearing a teaching along this line?