rascal

So why did so many of you passively accept the craziness? Why did so many of you stay in until you were told to leave?

What stopped you from speaking up when apparently you knew what you were being asked to do was stupid, crazy, or downright wrong?

Fear of confrontation?

Fear of retribution?

Fear of getting kicked out?

Fear of God's punishment?

If you were so fear motivated, why were you so afraid?

I'm not asking rhetorically. I was involved in the same ministry, but I did not have the same experience.

I`d say that we were taught not to trust ourselves. We were taught that any thoughts that were contradictory to twi being the greatest ministry since the first century were from satan trying to trick us...you know try to get us to consider things like eve.

If things were tough or unpleasant, we needed to renew our minds and God would take care of it...he would honor our hearts and believing.

If things didn`t make sense or contradictory, it was because we weren`t spiritul enough to understand, we were seeing through a glass darkly...

If a leader was blatantly unpleasant, it was because we had caused it, or just an isolated instance.

We were taught that our 5 senses weren`t to be trusted.

We were taught that you could only think one thought at a time, if things got chaotic we had retemory scriptures to run through our minds so that we didn`t think any negatives.

It wasn`t fear so much, it was a determination not to follow the steps of eve in the downfall of man...ie listen, consider, add a word etc. We schooled our thought processes to only consider what our leaders taught. Nobody wanted to let God down. Nobody wanted to weaken the body of Christ, to take a chance of unkowingly allowing Satan to work through them to harm another. It was all about being spiritualy and mentaly tough, disregarding our own discomfort and misery for a bigger more important cause...the spiritual battle.

I think here in lies the real evil of twi...doubt of ourselves, of our abilities. We learned not to consider the evil, not to stand up for ourselves. We learned to tune out what made us unique, individual to supress our reactions to mistreatment. We even learned to excuse and scripturaly justify the mistreatment.

Yup

We have it in Alabama and tenn too. Schools where there are confirmed cases closed in one city for two weeks. City and other county schools closed thursday and friday ...it is hoped that with the weekend it might prevent the spread of further as yet undiagnosed cases from s[preading.

Well I`m trying not to be scared. All of the schools in the city of huntsville and madison county ala. are closed because of two probable cases :(

My kiddo babysat a kid and I spent time with her as well that had all of these symptoms. I know the odds are against it being swine flue, but crimeny it is so hard not to obsess. My whole family is traveling to nc for my brothers homecoming from afgahnistan/promotion...I keep thinking about all of the people that we will have contact with and what if we have it and spread it or catch it and bring it back....O I know it is silly....but I haven`t been sleeping. I wish I could just hide on the farm.

Pmosh that sounds pretty suspicious. I am glad that you and your family are well whatever the illness was that struck.

Wow, congratulations stayaway! Really good news that people are still finding their way out. Pretty funny, yet really really sad....they don`t care about you leaving so much as make damned sure they still get your dollars..

TWI takes that which is not theirs .... in God`s name.

I really don`t think God wants us enabling these people by giving our support financially,

A good wafer/polygamist cult member/whatever is seriously discouraged from listening to the news, reading the paper, internet computer access, having contact with non believing family members, non standing friends.... in time, they have no reference points outside of their group.

The only input allowed is from people whom believe and think exactly the same as you do.

When the doubts nag at you, that is satan trying to deceive you. When you are miserable it is because you are focusing on the wrong thing. When circumstances become overwhelming, you are guilty of looking at the 5 senses.

So you suck it up...you believe that your misery is your fault...you believe that if you just dot all of your I`s and cross all of your T`s spiritually, all will be well.

Exactly chockfull. There were people that came to me to try to understand why the women would stay. I did the best I could to explain that in order to remain virtuous, in God`s favor, in order for your children to be protected, to grow up as God fearing men and women, you would suck it up and swallow any indignity, any unpleasantness, in the belief that this was what God insisted upon.

You renewed your mind to believe that God required these things of you for a greater good.

Sickness, loss of children... loss of God`s blessing, loss of his protection, being in satans cross hairs with no protection...Having to face life without God to turn to was way worse to contemplate then to submit to the indignities of life in twi.

It was many years after leaving before the anxiety of waiting for that shoe to drop lessened.

I don`t know about *content to stay* Most people that I knew were flat out afraid to leave the hedge of God`s protection that surrounded them as long as they were in twi. To leave meant to open the door to satan, to die.

Hey Linda,

Really really chilling. Glimpses into history and peoples lives like that fascinate me.

I have an album with postcards from all over the world from a couple of cruises that family members took in 1911. They are so pretty. How would I learn about what I have got? I know that I should find out how to take better care of them. Most were never written on. Is it better for them to have been used?

I didn`t know that people collected these things.

I also was given several stamp albums from an elderly woman which once belonged to her father who was a British dignitary. The stamos are a fascinating picture into history as well. Many of them are from countries no longer in existence. All have pictures of historical and notable figures to the people of that area and time. I would love to know more about them and why people thought them worthy of that honor.

My friend gave them to me as an aid to teaching the kiddos about different places. Anybody collect stamps that could point me in a direction that would help me to identify and understand a little better?

I also have a letter written during the civil war from an ancestor. He talked about the hardships as a soldier. He said that sukie (their mule) back home ate a lot better than he did.

I think that the pride of which you speak is merely a symptom of what was wrong rather than what was actually wrong itself.

A careful study of history, of him and the fruit of his life shows, I think, that it was always wrong. I think wierwille was a genuine wolf in sheeps clothing. He was cleverly disguised to deceive. He had to look good sound good to carry off the scharade....to fool otherwise well intentioned people.

Those whom were lured off track in their spiritual walk generally seem to have found their way back after being detoured...those who never had a spiritual compass to begin with prior to twi seem to be forever lost.

I think that the pride of which you speak is merely a symptom of what was wrong rather than what was wrong itself.

Welcome Stayaway :)

That is encouraging to hear that folks are still leaving, that they feel like there are options to putting up with stuff they shouldn`t have to. I knew people in fla when I left, some of the hardest of the hard core...I loved them before they became that way, I always wonder if they ever woke up, if they ever left.

I am meeting with the minister at the little church that we have attended sporadically since leaving twi next week.

I have been a part of this group, worked with the youth, was a part of their womens group...the whole family attends sunday night bible study....I was rabidly against officially joining. I`ll be damned if anybody will get me to commit to anything and then demand subservience in God`s name ever again.

Well, it turns out that if my kiddos and I are members, it opens all kinds of doors college wise. Scholarships, money for dorm rooms etc. I told the minister who is a dear friend that while I trusted her and the current people who attended our church, what happens in a couple of years when she completely retires...what if the person who replaces her is a real goober?

Well I guess that in truth I will be promising no more than I currently do...dfo my best to serve God and support the church which Linda says that can mean the whole church, the body of Christ. I love these people and for many years have considered myself *home* ..., I don`t know maybe this rabid fear of officially being a member or reluctance to admit that I want to join a church is the next big step in my healing.

I don`t know if I will ever submit to anybody ever again in God`s name..I may be broken beyond repair. I think God gets it though.

Thank you. He is safely home. We are going next week to celebrate his homecoming and promotion :)

Lots of fishing boating poker and fun. All of the sisters, parents, kids :)

Twinky, I am humbled and so grateful that this was where God saw fit to see me planted.

I have learned so much from these gentle quiet Christians. I am thankful that they welcome me into their midst as a sister in spite of my difference and where I am in my spiritual walk. :)

Lol George...you give me pause to think.

Hiway, the jackets were the shiny bright silky tacky stuff that was popular in the early 80s. They were expensive at the time...50 bucks or so....Most clubs motorcycle groups had some version of them. :) They were actually quite striking. They were the deep blue of the wow pin with the wow pin embroidered real big on the back and your name in gold on the front. They were quilted on the inside and warm.

They were actually pretty classy for their day imo.

I loved mine and was very proud to wear it. Wish I still had it just because I thought it was so spiffy back then.

I had the jacket, my husband shot a hole in it when a bullet ricocheted (no I wasn`t in it at the time) and smashed through the window and through the coat that was hanging in the laundry room...sigh.... I was very sad because I loved it.

My husband`s way corpes jacket was beautiful, but it faded to an icky yellow green.

I have my wow pins...I cannot explain why I keep them nor why in spite of everything I feel about anything twi....I still feel a sense of pride, accomplishment, respect when I see them.

Dang ahat ... you got babies??? Cool BEANS! :) I guess that we have some catching up to do!

Wow act 2 how exciting!! I want to do that someday. Cindy congrats on your schooling and the new grand :)

Twinky, if you are asking about church and volunteers, whether a lakc of willingness to volunteer amongst church members is the norm....I`d have to say that our little country church is amazing. When I was sick, the minister found out that I was unable to make apts to the big hospital in nashville because of cost...she found out what the expense would be, notified the women`s group who raise money at christmas bazars etc...and not only got the money, but enough for gas and lunch afterwards, then she herself drove me because I was too sick to.

I am not even an official member...I attend sporadically...I found out that they do the same thing for the woman down the road who is alone and been fighting cancer...the minister takes her out of town to all of her chemo stuff...I have seen them on several occasions help people who have had house fires...I know that there is prison outreach where a young woman wrongly convicted serving 20 years, not only received an education, but was freed and even exonerated, and her children returned. They help build homes for habitat for humanity. My kids have gone weekends to help rebuild a house taken out by a tornado with the youth group. There is a group that goes every year to costa rica to volunteer at a mission/school/church. When the minister found out that my daughter wanted to go to college...she made all of the apts with all of the right people ...and got her enrolled at the methodist college. She has someone helping her to take the right tests, how to get scholarships etc...

These are just a few examples that I am aware of in our small country church with probably less than 50 people. I know from friends that other churches in our area are just as involved. Our little karate school (made up from christians from many different groups) is putting on a benefit for St Jude (anybody wanna sponsor me for board breaking? ;) )

What I see for volunteers at least locally, is that it is alive and well, but nobody is expected to. Folks just do it because they believe that it is important. Nobody is shamed into or pressured into it...shrug

Do you think that it could be that maybe these guys that are not being leaders are called to do something else?? I guess that it is a very personal thing between them and God about what they can handle or are willing to. How many times did we volunteer to do something that we were neither qualified or capable because we were expected to? There were a lot of people hurt by people who volunteered to be leaders because it was expected.

I think that it is God that works in our hearts for this stuff... and if he isn`t ...someones foot in our bu tts isn`t going to be a better motivator.

I guess that I am in agreement with you twinky, I don`t think that ever really WAS right. From the very beginning, even as a minister wierwille was searching for ways around the rules and practices that he didn`t like.

I think that being a christian is something that we are inside...that if it is real and genuine, we don`t have a life long struggle with loving our neighbor with the love of God instead of lusting after their wife, their property, jealous of anothers riches etc.

I don`t think the man ever knew...I think that he was always trying to find the right formula the right combination the right magic hocus pocus that make him into a spiritual being.

I think his life is a sad testimony of ever searching, but never actually coming unto a knowledge of the truth...The thing is he managed to drag a good many genuine christians off track with him.....Many woke up, those who`s introduction to God came via twi...I think it will be very difficult to overcome the false teachings, the idea of what spirituality is and how to achieve it.

That was my thought WG. It reads so mundane when you try to put into words that special little message of life and hope...you know it is something special, something personal a gift.....but to anybody else...it`s no big thing.

Absolutely. That is why I had to toss everything out I ever thought I knew and begin a new foundation to build upon....ie *Love God and Love your neighbor* was my starting place...

As far as I am concerned, all that knowledge really did was distract us from our real responsibility.

Prideful?? Shoot yeah, arrogant, belligerent, throw them in as well....I`d even go so far as to say that we were trained to tune out the very voice of God with the *renewed* mind as it was taught...that we were taught to silence our conscience and good sense with the whole retemorizing routine....lest we consider ...

Jesus didn`t say that we would know one another by how much knowledge we amassed or our works....I think that there very well may be many of us twi folks that are one day to our vast suprise...will be told be Jesus to *depart, for he knew us not*

Great to see you Zix! Nothing new twi wise....stale, boring same old same old...meantime those of us who have escaped continue to live our dreams, mark milestones, accomplish our goals.

Since the last time I saw you, three of the *tribe* are now adults, the waydale baby will be 9 tomorrow....3 of us have earned our black belts, one of them starts college this fall :)

What about you fella?

Congratulations! What an awsome accomplishment.... I am so glad that you are taking care of yourself. I also sincerely appreciate you keeping greasespot up and running during your personal difficulties.

It has been an part of my ever ongoing healing and growth process.

I look forward to seeing more of ...(er though um um I guess after losing 100 + lbs that technically there is really less of you now...lol :) ) you around here and am looking forward to hearing more interviews.

Cathy

Thanks Bride, well said :)

Speaking of *blessed* Easter..lol my son had brought home a little hen a couple of days ago sitting on a nest. He found 11 newly hatched chicks easter morning. It was such a fun suprise...tiny golf ball sized fluff ... now mind, there have been numerous tornados, death of a mother and her infant....and all sorts of heart breaking difficulties in the last couple of days around us......but in the midst of all of the chaos a subtle reminder yesterday that we were celebrating life, newness a fresh start...it was good to remember not to treat yesterday like every other day...to give pause as to what is important to us. :)

I don`t know, it just seemed like a special personal gift...the eggs weren`t supposed to hatch for weeks.