JeffSjo

Hi guys, thanks for the feedback. Year 2027, I'm not looking for an answer as much as good fellowship. I'm content with Apollos as my first pick as the writer of Hebrews, but the topic isn't worth arguing about. I think that a lot the wrangling done on the topic over the centuries has been mean spirited and quite frankly unworthy of any of God's children. Similar events in my life on this topic has proven that leadership can be petty, overbearing, and frankly destructive if they don't allow God's people the freedom to consider any matter as a matter of conscience. You're right Goey, I'm not worried in the least about who the writer of Hebrews was. But all this stuff about the council of Carthage is beyond my scope of history. It is interesting to me that the topic brought up the canon of the scriptures though, I'll just take it in. As far as the how I refer to the book of Hebrews, it is scripture. I don't hesitate in the least to refer to it on any topic in God's Word. As a matter of fact it brings up some things that aren't covered anywhere else in the same detail and it fits with the rest of the scripture faultlessly.

Hey Rascal, I'm humbled by a lot of people that I've heard from on this site, and I mean that in a really good way. I believe all the comfort we need in God's word is contained in our Lord's return. I hope we can find it (The comfort that is.) together. I've gotta go guys. GOD BLESS

I'll share with you how it works for me rascal, I need to hold on to the good stuff. I'm not sure about a lot of specifics as far as how it got so bad in TWI, But I cannot let go of how I work and approach God's word, I learned it in PFAL. I'm still thankful for that, But as I shared; I'm grieved too!

I've considered the identity of the writer of the book of Hebrews for quite a while and while I have formed an opinion based on the principles of letting the scripture interpret themselves. I can in no way claim that I've got it figured out as in "Thus sayeth the Lord." As a matter of fact I have to say that in no way, form, shape, or manner is the topic worthy of an argument. Even though many throughout history have argued, put each other down,and even staked there reputations on the matter. I believe that the willingness to argue over the matter proves a fault. Namely strife. I was even a victim of strife living in leaderships' hearts. We (PFAL grads) were taught to prove things doctrinal. The ministry needed to carry out the simple truth of allowing the believers to carry out that function. It was the grace of God that it was taught to us. Then why not be thankful if a believer, by the grace of God actually manages to cause a doctrine to be changed, which we were taught to do. Fear, mixed with some kind of bunker mentality has ruined many lives. Heb 2:3 The writer of hebrews clearly heard the word of God from others who heard it from the Lord. That eliminates the 12 apostles, Paul and most everyone mentioned in gospels. Heb 6:1 The writer clearly doesn't consider the book he wrote to be a foundational work. Paul, by his own words considered himself to be a foundation layer. _____1 Cor 3: 10 Even paul says another "buildeth thereon" How would it be unbiblical to consider the possibility that another besides Paul wrote Hebrews. I think it's very biblical to consider the possibility. Especially as it fits like a hand in a glove with what both the writer of Hebrews says about himself and it fits with what Paul said of others. Another point from PFAL fits perfectly with this. We were taught that each writer spoke in their own vocabulary: plain or flowery. Paul even says he spoke plainly and simply, whereas the writer of Hebrews was very eloquent. Go ahead and check it out, see for yourselves. I'd like to known what you all think. Let me say again, it's not worth fighting over. I believe Apollos wrote Hebrews. He was around Paul in Acts. Paul came to Ephesus where Apollos was, and saw his fruit, and built on it. Apollos came to Corinth and built on what Paul left behind. In Paul's epistle he instructs the Corinthian's to not follow after any minister in a bad way. He instructed them to remember who he was to them, but also called Apollos a minister too. But also warns those that build on the foundation to beware how they build on it, and that the Lord will judge by fire. I'm pretty sure that Apollos learned an awful lot from that, so did the Corinthians and everyone involved. Paul manages to minister to everybody and not condem anyone. AN AWESOME EXAMPLE TO BE SURE. TITUS 3:13 This shows that Paul and Apollos had a working relationship much later than the events in Corinth. It would be entirely wrong to say that this is the only possible answer, I readily admit it to be the best answer I have when I consider only the scriptures as I understand them. What do you all think?

You can tell them by their fruit. When I look at the wreckage that was the ministry started in the grace of God I see fruit. It's not hypothetical anymore. Just look at the innocent lives that have been ruined.

Hi oldiesman, I really am grieved by all that I've stated. But in spite of my grieved feelings right now I believe it's sound to say that their "walk" doesn't deserve to be likened to a child of God. I also believe that those that are responsible for the state of affairs will be ashamed before Jesus Christ as it says in the epistles, even though they have the spirit as do any of us.

I am definitly grieved by attempting to hold on to the grace of God that was in TWI; when I must face what they've become. I am grieved by TWI when doing so publically associates me with their missdeads. I am grieved with TWI when I see the scorn of resonable men when they justly wonder why anyone would consider it a Christain organization. I am grieved with TWI when I see kind and gentle souls who are afraid of saying what they believe publically for fear of mean spirited payback. I am grieved with TWI when I see people who don't know any better; doubt the grace of God that used to be in TWI because all that they can see is vile manipulation and biblical compromise. I am grieved with TWI when I think of the people inside of that group who remember the grace of God, that somehow manage to stay involved in spite of the nastiness all around them. I am grieved with TWI when I think of the old freinds who's commitment to God was broken by their style of leadership. I am grieved with TWI when I see people who don't have any place better to seek loving fellowship than the internet. I am grieved with TWI when I must deal with things like rape, molestation, adultery, homosexuality, idolatry, and spiritual abuse when I work at fitting their history under the umbrella of "IT IS WRITTEN." I believe that when HIStory is recorded once and for all there will be many who are openly ahamed in His prescence. I am grieved with TWI when I see young and tender believers that justly consider it's influence on their lives as predatory instead of helpful. I am grieved with TWI when I see older and stronger believers who don't know what to do about it. Romans 8: 14 says "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." I SAY TO TWI " YOU BASTARDS" ( THAT' RIGHT; FATHERLESS CHILDREN") HEBREWS 10: 26-31 For if we sin willfully after that we have recieved the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgement and fiery indignation which shall devour the adversaries. IT IS WRITTEN 1 CORINTHIANS 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. IT IS WRITTEN Just to do service to the grace of God that was in TWI I'm asking you to check out where judgement by fire was used before. You then tell me if it's going to be pleasant.

I'M ON YOUR SIDE NERO,100%

Hi Belle, this is jeffsjo, Thank you so very much for sharing your story. I never saw TWI in the nineties, but the group I've been with sounds pretty much the same. I can relate to the things you needed to deal with just to move on. The last four years of my life sounds very similar to what you described as your low point. I'm very glad to meet you, even over the internet only. I have no problem saying that I'm on your side, you feel dear to me even through just a little text. I'm looking forward to more fellowship with you, or even around you on this site.

If I would have said it better it would have been clear that I've said too much rough stuff and not near enough gentle stuff. It works best for me to not justify my mistakes, especially by quoting bible. For me that seems to be jumping from being a jerk, to being dangerous.

It has been my experience to often speak hasty, foolish, and hurtful words. Sometimes my intentions were good and sometimes they weren't. It has been my experience to speak words that seemed vulgar, but were good for doctrine, reproof, and correction and that were appropriate in the circumstances, if only because the circumstances were extreme and needed extreme words in order for them to sink in. My challenge is speaking gently, because I was raised in a rougher environment and speaking roughly is easy for me. I think many people (But especially men) are prone to this. There can be an emotional rush to it, once it is a habit. Others are challenged by situations that require roughness, because they have a built in gentleness that I don't. Either way, with God we can learn to deal with what we have to in life, especially when it requires change. The best I know to do now is to listen to the complaint if someone that I care for is mad about what I've said. Not that I shouldn't care about anyone's opinion, but then there's sometimes someone who doesn't like what I've said and thinks that they have to win, and will for less than honest reasons object to what I've said. Eph 4:1b, 2, &3 walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,with all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; endeavoring to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace. I KNOW WE ALL SAY THE WRONG THING SOMETIMES, LIVING THESE VERSES MAKES IT EASIER TO DEAL WITH IT.

Hi everyone, this is jeffsjo WAYSIDER Thanks for the info on quoting But I'm such a newcomer at these things that I don't get it yet. I'll probably refer back to it as I work on figuring it out. I'm not envious of the Corps or think less of myself because I'm not Corps at all. It just kind of perturbs me that as far as discussion goes there doesn't seem to be many of them who seem to have figured out that it's a good thing to hold on to the good from the old days. I don't have any problem remembering that in PFAL we were encouraged to learn how to work God's word so that we could check the truth of it out for ourselves. The group I came through gave that principle faint lip-service at best. When I think of the best of the Corps I think that they were taught to handle the issues I've faced and done better, but I don't hear many who can handle the real "blood and guts" issues like we talk about here and can frame them within IT IS WRITTEN. To tell you the truth, I wanted to provoke them by pointing out that a lowly intermediate class grad can do it. As far as not allways agreeing with you, I'll just talk "out" from my previous sharing and say, I'd only have a problem with it if I wanted you to be my beeotch. :) ( That joke is absolutely not intended as a thinly veiled attack of any kind, I just mean that to not be o.k. with a well intentioned difference between us would be wrong on my part .) IRISHEYES & EXCATHEDRA Wow, thank you so very much for the sharing and the sentiment, I'm floored and sadened by your Corps experience (I don't think you said Corps excathedra but it sounds like you were around it at least) and I'm sure many others feel the same way you do. I don't know when it all started to go bad, but I'm sure it was before the date of my first twig fellowship; 40th anniversary sunday. It's just that I'm really hoping you're holding on to the spaghetti in spite of all that was nasty. (If I don't use the analogy right, I hope you get what I mean.) This I know for sure, that God is aware of every little bit of compromised darkness that His people had to suffer through and that he'll make it O.K. in the end. I'm just glad for both your tender and kind hearts. The last king that he picked is our exceeding good news, he's tender and kind and he never has, or ever will hurt his people with one spoonful of rotten spaghetti sauce. Someday he'll come and reveal the hidden wisdom of wickedness that has hurt so many.

Hi this is jeffsjo once again. I wish I knew how to place quotes in here because a lot of them concerning "personal attacks" as being misguiding (often deliberatly) and as a tactic to put someone down in order to be "lifted up" I can relate to. When I was younger I related to this as "rap culture." Now I'm somewhat ashamed of refering to what passes as loving Christain discourse as rap culture. Rap culture is what it is, it doesn't pretend to be something it's not. If an accusation is true, It still has to be handled with with good intentions for it to even come close to profitable Christain discourse. Even with good intentions it may end up being a complete flop in terms of " Does it succeed at ministering to God's people". Without a lot of care in every aspect it usually ends up as a flop in terms of helping people. Concerning the events at TWI in the old days, I'm 100% convinced that there was bigtime problems that ruined the growth of the ministering of God's word. Many good people were hurt and their lives were damaged badly. In my case this happened after my days with TWI. I can't name names, but what basically happened was the leader of this group decided that instead of helping people stand on their own two feet he would only be interested in making people his "beeotches". This happened time and time again, I can't ever think of an instance in the later years where he would help anyone unless they were either completly submissive or were a real prospect of becoming one of his beeotches. Under these circumstances the integrity of God's word was the first casualty. If I questioned a teaching or a prophecy (Like the time he told people we would be attacked by the locals or the government) I became the enemy and my concerns were considered "personal attacks". I would be willing to be guilty of being a slanderer if it meant that the fellowship of believers were not complety mislead. The best I know to judge is that the integrity of God's word is the only good standard. And let me say that being right in the middle of a tough situation like that where you see people face to face, day in and day out (He led the fellowship into a comunal lifestyle) is exceedingly challenging. I am also convinced (after years of watching him) that he would like nothing better than to make anyone left over from TWI he can find his beeotch. A lot of what he's practiced and taught ( especially the younger ones) I believe is only to convince people who remember the best of TWI that he's a man of God. If only he had been capable of love instead of selfish ambition. Just ask people like me who's only sin is questioning bad biblical workmanship or false prophecies (like saying Jesus Christ will return in 2001, and many others) So in general I'm a little wary of people who try to build their ministries on what was TWI. Right now things don't look healthy at TWI, but there are people who would know better than me. What I am looking for is the best of TWI. There are many things that I heard in the old days that I'm certain was the grace of God, and call me what you will but I don't plan on changing my mind anytime soon. The best way I know to look at it is to compare it to the reign of Solomon. Solomon built the temple, but later became full of himself and sinned against God. God still fellowshiped with him after he sinned too, even if only to let him know that HE wasn't happy and what HE'D do about it. Easy word's to say, but pretty darn hard things to consider. Especially when we can attach real live people to it. I'm certain God's word lives. Often times it won't be the way we hoped or wanted it to be. How many times in the scripture were God's people given good things only to blow it, I think quite often. When I consider how things really are I have cried and am even now a little misty. But I refuse to give in to the ones who say nothing was good in TWI. My best judgement of "IT IS WRITTEN" is to compare it to Solomon. Painful, but I believe it to be true. When I think of the Way Corps I think of people who were taught to be much better people than I am. Earlier today I was thinking that if I had Corps training I would be in a better place in terms of the physical things in my life, but when I lost my fellowship, wife,child & job I've taken it pretty hard. And am even now in trouble for things that I think someone in the Corps was trained to not let happen. A WOW vet intermediate class grad just may not be as stallwart as the Corps was taught to be I think. But I am thankful to have this place to share. Bye and God Bless

When I was WOW in Columbia,S.C. in 1983-84 Carol Sue lived there. Then she went into the Corps. I really hoping things are well with her and would like to know for sure.

When I was WOW in Columbia,S.C. in 1983-84 both of them lived there, and I would really like to find out how they're doing.

When I was WOW in 1983-84 in Columbia, S.C. Jim and Maggie lived there. Jim was Corps and had some coordination responsibilities at the time. I'm really hoping things are well with them and would like to know.

I'm pretty new to the fellowship of believers at large, since most of the fellowship experience I've had since 1990 or so relates to one small group of believers, and things did not go well there. Many of my experiences in this small group seem to fit with a lot of the things people talk about here, in regards to TWI, but some of them do not. But I have no recent experience with TWI and I don't know who's in charge, what they're doing -etc. I don't have a need to get all updated on it either, Except as it may relate to helping someone. As concerning specifics of what's been going on there: sexual immorality- From the things I've heard I believe that there were BIG problems. I don't always know about specific instances I hear about, but some of the things I've heard are so credible that I am compelled to treat the accusations as true. If they are true, then when someone who is accused complains of "a personal attack", they are simply liars who have not come even close to being forgiven by the Lord; since they refuse to acknowledge that they've sinned. ( rom 13:13, gal 5:19-21, and 1 john 1:6-10) And I don't have the reference at hand but God's people are told to reprove darkness, not fellowship with it. Now simply stated about myself, I've fallen short in these categories too, and I am not qualified to cast any stones as I am not without sin. But thats not the same problem as when a leader, someone responsible for the life and well-being of many people not only sins (like any man or woman has done) but also causes many to stumble, who should have not been taken advantage of. Then they lie, manipulates, ruin people lives, and causes the very life of the ministry to become corrupted by promoting their particular brand of darkness; the problem that they will have FROM the Lord..... well, I'd rather be in my shoes than theirs. Now , if the accusation is false (still possible in a particular case) then that may qualify as a personal attack. The adversary is called the "slanderer of the brethren" after all. The best biblical advise I have to give to one who is falsly accused is to allow God to make it all o.k. in the end, as he did in the record of Joseph. As a person who is on the outside looking in at the more recent things going on with TWI; it is one nasty mess in regards to these things. But I am confident that when the Lord himself deals with them, it'll all become very clear what happened, both in terms of specific accusations and the big picture. In the mean time, I just don't have the stomach to look at accusations that are dirrected at people who've given me things that are good from God's word. It's not like I don't know that the accusations might be true, I do even have to admit that they often are most probably true. It's just that I'm thankful for the things in God's word, and thankful still for the ones who gave them to me,even if....... Thanks for opening up this topic, and being willing to have peoples opinions posted. You've got the best opinion that I have to give.

Hi guys this is jeffsjo Nero, I'm very glad that you are "blessed and refreshed" as a result of the fellowship.(those are my words and not yours, but thats how you seem to me anyway) It would make me exceedingly glad if you continue to grow in knowledge on these things and have your heart settled in the truths you need to hold on to. Just give me a holler if you ever want to talk. year2027, That's quite a lot once again. Once I can think of in the gospels (I don't know the reference right off hand) Jesus Christ reminded some that the scriptures called those to whom the scriptures came "gods." In heb1:8 God himself calls Jesus Christ, "god", and thats an old tesament quote. So it's clear to me that Jesus Christ as god is a valid consideration (it was for Thomas too: john 20:28) for all of us. I know that certain popular doctrines muddle the person of Jesus Christ up to much for me to hang with them right now, but I'm not against seeking fruitful fellowship with anyone. Personally I'm much more comfortable thinking about Jesus Christ in biblical terms like "god" than with nonbiblical terms like "big broham and the like" that were popular in the old days that seems to rob him of the awe and respect he's due. I'm sorry if that last paragragh is off topic here, I'll stop now.

Hi guys, this is jeffsjo again I just learned something, In my just posted posting it now says "talking foot" in the place I typed "talking (donkey synonym)." Is that some kind of language cleaning function on this site? That's kind of neat, even though I meant "talking (donkey synonym)" in the best possible sense.

Hi guys, this is jeffsjo and I hope things are going well with you guys Hi irisheyes, check out Heb 1:1,2 These verses are loaded with information about how God communicated with his folks throughout time. In spite of all the different ways he communicated (burning bush,talking foot, or still small voice, etc.) these remind me that He's in charge of how he communicates with us. I mean, it is His word after all. I don't try to read too much into the specifics lest I get lost in them, If I spent a lot of time trying to figure out the significance of the bush verses the donkey for instance I think I could end up blathering on for quite a while, and in the end have nothing good to show for it, not good for me or anyone else. I remember once in the old days someone in leadership made a deragetory remark about "red letter christianity." I never heard the incident that led to that remark, But considering the times, I think that it's a real possibility that they were blowing off some good reproof to their own detriment. Over the last few years the topics that I've dealt with seem to have brought the things the Lord said in the gospels a lot closer; in terms of my understanding; to the things taught in the epistles. I certainly don't consider them separatly anymore; but together. Hi nero I hope you don't toss speaking in tounges because I believe that it's scriptural and good. It sounds like nobody ever helped you get to the point where there was no longer any question in your mind about them. The same goes for interpretation of tounges and prophecy. One of the jobs of the ministry was to help God's people recieve these things, and when I hear anybody say that they never felt quite right about it I DON'T THINK BADLY ABOUT THEM, but I feel badly that something that is plainly scriptural never became real for them. I guess this is what I would like to share with you too coolchef. hi year2027, You know what is the most challenging thing for me to deal with? It's not believing that God would reveal the truth to anyone who is seeking the truth, because that's just a question of believing that GOD'S NOT A LIAR. It's sorting out the differing doctrines of everybody that claims to be taught by God on a particular topic. That depends on the PERSON telling the truth. If they're lying that could either be deliberatly or simple ignorance. God doesn't lie, people lie. Even with being taught on how the scripture interprets itself I feel that I need all the grace and mercy I can get to even appreciate what the SCRIPTURES are saying. I definatly hold on to the concept of the scriptures interpreting themselves, but a few of the details have changed for me in terms of how to apply that concept. I've had to change some of the things I've learned in the classes, but I still hold on to a lot of it as it was taught. And most importantly for me, the changes I've been compelled to make in my thinking of the scripture I am more confident in because of learning how the scripture interprets itself. If I've changed a few things I can document the changes in my thinking by what's written, and I learned HOW TO DO THAT IN THE CLASSES. If I've tweeked a few things incorrectly I hope God will correct me just as plainly as I'm willing to share them. Take care y'all. I'm looking forward to more fellowship withyou. :3 purrr (thanks for clueing me in on that nero.)

Hi lucygoosey, this is jeffsjo, Welcome to the greasespot cafe. I'm pretty new here and so far people have been very welcoming to me. I've brought up some difficult topics from my time with TWI (the way international) and topics from my time after TWI and folks have been loving and supportive to me. I hope it ends up being the same for you. Personally, I'm sorry you went through what you did. It looks like you're not alone in terms of being badly mistreated and taken advantage of. I hope it hasn't ruined your love for God's Word or His people. For what it's worth, I'm certain that God will reward the nasty abusive uses of power that have been done in secret very openly. And in the mean time I hope that your heart is taken care of. take care, jeffsjo

Hi guys, I hope things are going better for you all these days than in the old days when apparently there was an awful lot in the church that was badly broken. I hope this is a blessing for you all, for me to kinds of tweek the tone of the topic a little bit but it's a tweek that I have to give myself sometimes. No matter how many lies, deceptions, distortions, ommisions, or half-truths we've heard about or suffered through; this is a topic that's about truth. I am saddened greatly that a ministry that started with john 10:10(both the thief and Jesus Christ in this verse.) and gave me things that I haven't had to back down on to this day could have "for so many people" apparently not carried through with the simple and potentially lifechanging heart in this verse. I"ll never be able to deny the existence of a spiritual contest, at least as long as I'm honest about remembering my experiences, it's gone way past just words on a page. gotta go,by and God bless.

hi nero, this is jeffsjo, On my last posting I was running out of time and emotional and I wanted to supply a couple of scriptures that you asked for because without scripture its all guess work and with scripture, it's still a lot to deal with. 1 cor 14:5 This is a very plainly stated exhortation to do a good thing. 1 co 14:12 I've never seen it be REALLY good when the heart was more about self than about the good of the entire congregation. 1 cor 14:25 This is the verse that convinces me it's not allways going to be sugar and spice. It seems to me this is more about heart issues. I suspect that when the ministry was breaking up in the old days that we could have used more "1 cor 14:8" and less milktoast. But it's God Word, He's the one that will judge. I have to attest to that I believe there was more available from God in these manifestations than was generally sought after by God's people or allowed by leadership. To tell you the truth when I think of these manifestations I think in terms of spiritual warfare(drumbeats and all) and not milktoast. Of course when I read some of the sweet things in the epistle of 1 john I end up thinking in terms of warfare too, sweet isn't necessarily milktoast. Hi year2027, Your observation was entirely new to me and I'm just starting to consider it, but I'd have to be extremely convinced by scripture that "interpretation of tounges" wasn't entirely focused on things spoken by the tounge. While it does seem obvious that the word "interpretation" all by its self with no relation to the manifestation of speaking in tounges can be interpretation of anything you want it to be. But once again you've given me something to chew on. God bless you guys and hope things are well with you.

Hi guys, I enjoy reading your postings. One of the things that was tweeked for me over the last few years was realizing that the way leadership structured these manifestations during twig in the old days was too mechanical if you will. What I mean by that is that in general they were too structured. The best possible reason for that I can think of is fear of something going wrong. If leadership was more confident of people being loving and orderly why have it so structured? Looking back on it, seems more like a lack of confidence in their ability to deal with things or a lack of confidence in God's people. The worst I've seen is that the control of the manifestations was used to keep down some things that I believe God wanted said, and that needed to be said. Think about it, "EXORTATION TO A MORE WORTHY ENDEAVOR" can pretty pointed. (that is a quote of the old expanded translation in the old intermediate class of the word "exhortation" from 1 co 14) It means acknowledging that what you're doing may not be worthy. I've had leadership say I was out of order because these things shouldn't step on their toes. My answer was that 'it was the truth'. I know that at times they seemed like they were milktoast over the years too. And its clear to me that when you read in God's word about their effect on people that some hearts were suppose to be pierced and probably some darkness revealed too. All for the good of everyone present too, not just because someone was trying to make a name for themselves; which can be a false accusation too if it's used for controling God's people. Even now after reading it for the first time I have to agree that the bible doesn't "SAY" that you can't do it at all if you're alone. You've given me something to think about there 2027.

Hi cinderpelt, this is jeffsjo. I'm thankful for the topic you brought up and I'd like to share a few relavent experiences I 've had and things I've heard because the whole topic seems huge in a doctrinal sense and also close to home for me personally. One thing I remembered hearing from someone about the old days was a habit of blaming the one being troubled by a devil spirit for the trouble they were in. I don't know for sure if this was a widespread view or the personal view of the one I heard talking about it but it didn't sound like there was any love in his telling of it, even rejoicing in the fact that someone was supposedly harrassed by one during a twig fellowship and that eventually led to that person leaving the fellowship of believers. The guy telling it had a smirk on his face as if the simple telling of the tale made him somebody. All I could wonder was why wasn't the one with the trouble delivered. I was a part of a fellowship(after my days with TWI) that blamed me for two people that were troubled in such a fashion and one of them was my wife. I look back at the situation and see that what was really broken was the love and trust that should have existed in the fellowship to seek God's answer to the problem. The real problem was that there was no good fellowship between leadership and myself. Part of that was the result of me constantly(more or less) calling them on bad biblical workmanship and false prophesies. The other part was the result of them holding certain accusations against me that they never proved or confronted me with; after a few years of that, fellowship is pretty strained in a small group. I could not help my wife because there was pretty much no trust between us, and the situation between me and leadership was such that it pulled me and my wife apart. They never even told me what my wife said was going on with her when I was asleep. I am quite certain that I could have been part of the solution if my wife would have trusted me in almost any sense. After all, even Jesus Christ couldn't do much in his own hometown, and I'm pretty sure their unbelief amazed him. I guess my experience shows me that when there is not a good working fellowship in the church and someone in authority chooses to blame instead of seeking deliverace it can get pretty ugly. Nobody gets it right in this field without walking with God and there are a lot of different ways for it to go wrong. Thre was a lot more going on than what I'm able to post here. Some of the issues with my wife go all the way back to 1987 when we were dating, and trouble beteen leadership and me go back to the early 90"s when I was a young believer with some big problems. I hope what I've shared is helpful. Maybe it's good for me to be able to dicuss it. There don't seem to be too many places where this kind of thing can be discussed in a loving and helpful manner. I can say with certainty that I know how it feels to be "tagged" with a false accusation. For me the biggest loss seems to be the loss to the whole fellowship when one person who has something to give is taken out. I mean we're one body, right. The thief cometh to steal..... If anybody is taken out and cannt give where he has grace to give then the loss is not just to the individual, but to the whole church.