JeffSjo

In some parts of the country "The Way of the Squirrel International" would be a good restaurant name too.

Sometimes I wonder what might have been if only I was stronger, then I stop thinking like that because God knew very darn well just how weak I was. I definatly don't feel that I was played like you do, but then I wasn't there when you took the class. Maybe you were played and for your leadership it was a manipulation. A lot of what I heard in PFAL about proving doctrines and so forth is what I've come to think of as Dr. Wierwille at his best. I know from my own life that I'm not always at my best, but it's always in there somewhere. I was never close enough to Dr. Wierwille to know what was really going on in the ministry, but when I had the chance to make a difference in one they wrecked my life, and I don't believe that I'm overstating that. It amounted to a stubborn refusal to listen on their part, followed by a big helping of put downs and mind games directed at me. This lasted for years. I called them on things like spitting on people, false prophecies, bad biblical workmanship, and a heavy handed style of leadership of which my life is proof of. Ive just gotta look forward to the Lord's 2nd coming, it's where the justice finally comes. In the mean time, at least I did my best to help. Did you think the restaurant joke was funny potato?

Hi guys, I'm no expert on spelling or metaphysics, so I'm not qualified to throw any stones here. When it comes to spelling I just go over it a few times with a dictionary handy.

Hi sweetpotato, (If that bothers you I'll stop it, no problem.) The Lord's return is like any other truth. When truth happens, it happens. I can't completely agree with your conclusions as to the heart and intent of Dr.Wierwille. But I do recognize that they're coming from a place that has many painful memories for you, I'm not condeming you for those opinions. The blinders as you refer to them were deliberatly put on us by some in leadership and contributed greatly to the ultimate trainwreck that happened in the ministry. It seems to me that if we could have called sin, sin it might have stood as a good ministry.

Hi Patrick and Sarah, Thanks for the invitation to "trash and bash" if I'd like. It's just that I don't see anything worth bashing, let alone trash.

I have to consider myself PFAL fruit. It is hard to consider past events that hurt so many. It just doesn't change where I'm coming from. It can't change what's been a blessing to me. I'm fruit too. It's obvious to you guys that I don't like where some of my fellow PFAL grads are coming from,isn't it? I'll deal with that the best I can. I cannot deny the air that I breath. I cannot deny that PFAL was good for me. I remember many people fondly. I never tasted tasted the nasty things many of you have, until more recently in a small splinter group that deliberatly wrecked my life. The Lord's return is when I believe it'll all be sorted out.

I just want this to be out front for you Dot, just like the other.

Hi Dot, I'm sending this to the front for you. I strongly desire that your path is good Dot. I am willing to do my best to help you either way. Since you're in a struggle, I hope taking another look at this is good for you.

Hi T-bone, The best way that I know to consider the matter goes something like this: If I'm considering a matter, don't get a clear answer,and don't come to a bad conclusion, I'm doing o.k. If I think I have a clear answer but am mistaken, I need correction. If I have a clear answer, it could only be by the grace of God. IT SEEMS TO ME T-BONE THAT BOTH SCRIPTURES FIT TOGETHER AS PART OF A LARGER PICTURE. That picture might be phrased as "Seeking the truth and finding it, get it right." Easy to say, hard to do.

However our understanding of it all developes, I hope that from this point on it can be mutually beneficial cman.

The people I used to deal with were far more effective at destroying my life for dubious reasons than they were at proving things that were going on in them. If I have something happen in my mind like a wierd dream I would rather not claim it to be God talking to me when it wasn't. A common weakness in people is that they might want to hear from God so badly that they would proclaim some weird dream as a revelation from God. It's much easier to condemn others than it is to prove my own thinking. If an error along these lines takes root in people as "correct doctrine" then the effects of the error and the accountability to the Lord increase dramatically. It is certainly an intense field year2027, I feel strongly about my opinions because I've been burned by false revelations before and I hope my observations are helpful to you.

Hi T-Bone, You know, I just thought of a section that's fascinating for me to compare with the verse you brought up. I can't think of the reference right off hand but I know you could find it if you want. The place in the gospels where Jesus Christ says something like "kings and prophets wanted to see these things, but you've showed them to children" in his prayer to God. I'll have to check it out later.

Wow Dot Matrix, Those are some big questions you're asking. What is the armor? How do we use it? How do we practically apply these verses? I hope someone gives you an answer that meets your need and is a blessing to you. I'll think about what little I have that I could share with you. For today I'll just say that they mean to me that if I don't want to be fooled, and that if I want to stand it'll take the whole package mixed in with plenty of mercy and grace.

This is a major topic for me year2027. Please don't take this as an attack on you, but I cannot ignore the doctrinal impications that go along with stuff like this. I've been kicked out of one church for questioning things like this. I hope for your sake you're correct in what you're saying. There are two tests from the old testament that are still valid. The first is, does it come to pass? The second is, even if it comes to pass does it bring me closer to God or farther from God. THE ONLY THING I KNOW TO DO IS TAKE A WAIT AND SEE ATTITUDE I'm glad that you didn't hide this and I hope that we prove it one way or another, together.

The Way of Potato International would be a better restaurant name than a church name. :) BULLIES, I can't stand them Sometimes they're bigger than us too. They won't be bigger than the Lord Jesus Christ when they'll finally have to account for the bullying though. One more thing sweetpotato, I've often wondered how a "non-profit organization" could be set up solely to raise funds. :)

Hi cman, For me, what the things taught in PFAL mean is that I can now approach the Word of God with confidence instead of ignorance and trepidation. For me to not see the Grace of God in my history when it occured would be like denying the air that I breath. There have been a few doctrinal changes for me too, and PFAL is where I learned to change a doctrine with confidence. As far as the organization behind the class goes, it's pretty ugly for me to look at the history; besides many here know more of the history than I do. Other options that I'm forced to consider are: "Those that change the grace of God into lasciviousness" Jude 4 Those that sin willfully and knew that it was bad (see Heb 10: 26, 27) I could go on about other specific possibilities but a lot of them are summed up in the book of Jude. Many other places too. These possibilities don't change the thing I believe to be true, that the Grace of God was at the root of the class that taught me God's Word. But the possibilities for what went wrong are hard to consider, but it's obvious that many things went drastically wrong.

If I recall correctly the term "way" or "the way" is biblical and cannot be copyrighted as it's biblical and therefore public domain. I am not a lawyer, but I don't see where TWI has a leg to stand on here: legally or morally!

Hey captain spiritur, You want to be spiritual, try restoring someone in a spirit of meekness. Meekness, gentleness, patience, not striving with anyone: These are spiritual virtues. I think those virtues are very plainly written about, but appear to be lacking in your comments to dmiller. Wordwolf, Hear,hear, well said. ChasUFarley, I feel pretty much the same. Eyesopen, I value people who have the guts to correct me when I'm wrong. I gladly count them as friends if they're a friend to me. Even if they aren't a friend to me I don't feel I have the right to treat them badly. Sometimes the hard issues require more than sweetness to deal with though, don't they!?

When I apologize to someone, it's because it's my fault. For me to attack them because they're mad still would be heartless and selfish. After all, it's my fault they're mad, not their's. Many in positions of leadership in the old days perfected this behavior until it was virtually an art form, in the most abusive way. When anything is done like that, and then the heartless and brutal behavior is justified by quoting scripture like " put away bitterness", people end up growing into a seething anger and a loss of respect for the leadership. Lately I'm not surprised at all the wreckage that's out there, but I don't see any way at all that it could have stood at all. Why would the Lord allow it to stand with so much lovelessness going on?

Hi eyesoopen, I don't know you well yet, but I'm kind of prefering to think of you as a leapordess. It's not that a leapord can't be fierce enough, or as fierce as a shark. After all, five of six ends are sharp and dangerous. It's just that a leapord is also kind to it's young and fiercely protective. A leapord can even be as cute and cuddly as a kitten too, although I'd personally never be quick to forget it's not a kitten and could in fact tear me up. Hey, if you want to stick with shark, O.K. :)

I was a Marine and I lived through events just like that in training. I think there was an element of Marine style training intended if I recall what I've heard correctly. I'm starting to think that instead of the marine type training, what happened was that the yelling fed the egos of the yellers and crushed the hearts of the yelled at. I mean really, don't treat kids like Marines. Looking back; it seems obvious. gotta go y'all. GOD BLESS

Hi Rachel, Of all the people that I can think of in the book of acts Paul obviously heads the list of people who could have written Hebrews. If for no other reason than he wrote so many epistles. Timothy would be next most obvious for me if he wasn't mentioned in ch 13, vs 23 It wouldn't bother me at all if Paul wrote to the Hebrews too, after all in Rom 11 he makes it very clear they were on his heart in a big way. In spite of all that, Paul's still not my first choice, but let me think some more about what you said. P.s. Do you have any feedback on any of the other perspectives here? P.p.s. No kicking allowed here.