So_crates

54 minutes ago, Mike said:

Narcissism is totally New Age in the mouths and from the keyboards of people who use that word in their daily lives and interactions. 

.If you knew anything about narcissism you'd know it was on a spectrum. We all have a touch of it, some a bit more then others.

Not everyone is condescending, refuses to listen to others, and think of people as things, not people. Saint Vic did, but then he was a huge narcissist, have most of the symptoms.

54 minutes ago, Mike said:

I wasn't talking about how the academics handle it. 

I mean that the common everyday usage of "narcissism" is pretty identical to the personal power plays that revolved around most phony discerning of devil spirits.

Yah, kinda like people who accuse others of hate and only seeing the negative side of things, refusing to see how negative they are.

1 hour ago, Mike said:

My take on VPW was that he taught much the same ideas that Jesus and his writers taught on devil spirits.

So Jesus taught that cancer was a devil spirit, right?

53 minutes ago, Mike said:

My take on VPW was that he taught much the same ideas that Jesus and his writers taught on devil spirits.

My take is he made it up as he went along, as you will notice with supporting the subconscious  in PLAF, then claiming there was no such thing in the advanced class.

59 minutes ago, Mike said:

I have seen several old PFAL grads switch their whole vocabulary around, and instead of seeing devils everywhere and in all opponents, they now use the word "narcissism."

Narcissism is the New Age word for devil possessed, it seems.   They see narcissism in lots of places and people, especially opponents.

The difference being the DSM-5 recognizes Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Nothing New Age about it.

3 minutes ago, OldSkool said:

Its a relevant point for certain. God clearly states I am holy so be ye holy. He lays out multiple qualifications for ministers in his scripture that sets a high bar of ethical behavior that victor paul wierwille clearly did not live at all, since he was a drunken, sexual predator, and plagairist. So God almighty, with whom it is impossible for God to lie, violates his own written Word to teach victor paul wierwille. He didnt even violates scripture for his own Sonm Jesus Christ but had him fulfill the law and redeem mankind where Jesus Christ fulfilled the munutest detail of the Mosaic law, but he made an exception for Victor Paul Wierwille....complete bullshonta.

I wish I could give the above quote 1000 upvotes. It's what lies at the crux of the whole "1942 promise."

33 minutes ago, Mike said:

 

It is YOU FOLKS who need to scrutinize self thinking.   You folks who operated far too much in the emotional realm, snapping into TWI and snapping out need to face your blinding hate.  Not much scrutiny going on when someone is still emotionally reacting negatively to the GOOD ideas God taught VPW.

Who needs to scrutinize their thinking?

How many of us are forever whining about being jeered at, or being tricked, or being pounced on?

I submit that it's YOU that has all the hate. You claim all these years studying PLAF yet you never learned to apply the simplest of principles: believing equals recieving. Confession of belief equals receipt of confession.

One of the reasons I believe you don't believe Saint Vic's garbage any more that I do. If you believed it you'd apply it.

12 hours ago, Mike said:

When you see a lot jeering and chatter, kindly wait till they run out of steam.  You camouflage your serious posts with them, and they can get easily lost by me.

You could also try repetition if you want to be taken seriously among a bunch of jokers.

You remember me telling you the speaker is responsible for their communication?

Well, another rule is the purpose of the communication is the response. If you're getting chatter and jeering, that must be what you want. Otherwise, you'd change the communication.

As you haven't changed the communication, you must enjoy chatter and jeering. Negative attention is better than no attention at all, right?

39 minutes ago, Mike said:

Do you mean this?
"Scripture does not state that God DOES not lie, indicating that he could actually do so. Scripture says it's IMPOSSIBLE for God to lie...what happened to every jot and tittle? You expect to be taken seriously and you care not to quote God's matchless Word accurately?"

 

Are you saying you don't want us to take you seriously?

53 minutes ago, Mike said:

God, of course, does not lie.

Haven't you said previously that God can lie?

19 minutes ago, Charity said:

Hi, what does /s mean

Sarcasm off.

1 hour ago, Mike said:

 

That Deut quote does very much tell them to saturate their lives with God's Word, to the extent it was available. 

No, YOUR private  interpretation (and no doubt you're echoing Saint Vic) says  "Saturate your life with God's Word." The texts says, "Keep his commandments." There's a distinction. 

Show me where it says "Saturate your life with  God"s Word."

1 hour ago, Mike said:

Everyone knows

Everybody? Newborn babies? Three year olds? Everybody's a pretty big word. You're wrong just out of the gate.

1 hour ago, Mike said:

that books were not available then, and scrolls were very expensive.  But what about memorization skills?  I think they did not invent paper and pencils because they were far more skilled at memorization than we are in our culture. 

Oh really? And scrolls weren't their version of pencil and paper?

1 hour ago, Mike said:

They also had less distractions. 

Yah, acquiring food and water wasn't a distraction. Not to mention neighboring tribes which may want  your women, food, or gold. *Sigh* The good old days.

1 hour ago, Mike said:

Psalm 119 tells us to saturate our lives with God's Word.

It also says "Keep his commandments."

Show me where it says "Saturate your life with God's Word."

9 hours ago, Mike said:

When they DID have access they were to make copies of parts to hang in their houses, and they were to talk about what they heard when the scriptures were being read.  THEY WERE TO DO THEIR BEST to get God's Word flowing in their minds, SO THAT they could love Him.

God gave a simple commandment to simple people so they could simply love Him  via His Word.   We can do better with Bibles.

1 hour ago, waysider said:

Throughout large portions of history, the common man has experienced widespread illiteracy. Even today, illiteracy exists, often by forced edicts. Equating words with books is a false comparison. Yes, books often contain words and words often define the content of books. So what? Apples contain juice. Juice is found in oranges. Are apples oranges? When someone has an inordinate fixation or obsession for books in general  or a specific collection of books, regardless of whether the books contain words, as some books are exclusively visual in nature, we call that...bibliolatry.

Speaking of illiteracy, Mike seems to think the reading ability back in Deuteronomy days was equal to contemporary times. How else would the Jews copy passages from the scrolls and hang them in their homes? How else would they become "bible freaks"?

Mike, there wasn't a bible on public display until it was well into book form, sometime way After the Common Era. So how were they able to be "bible freaks" with no bible to freak with?

Also, Mike, note that your Deuteronomy quote does not say "saturate your life with God's words", it too, like John, says "Keep his commandments."

The difference? Your private interpretation requests memorization. Keeping his commandments requires behavior. For example, Saint Vic may have memorized a lot of the bible, but he was lousy about keeping his commandments. 

4 hours ago, Mike said:

Paraphrasing:  You love God by loving His words and saturating your life with them.

Another flaw in your retconning of biblical history: Not everyone in Deuteronomy had access to the sacred scrolls, so how could they become "bible freaks"?

35 minutes ago, Mike said:

It is finished for me.

If anyone wants to make further fools of themselves entertaining the idea of bible-idolatry, have at it.

Dude, your mind was made up before you started.

If anyone wants to make further fools of themselves by posting Saint Vic apologetics on an anti-Way site, have at it.

2 hours ago, Mike said:

(cue the orchestra)

THE ANSWER IS:

When Jesus cited the greatest commandment, he was quoting from a most pivotal and important scripture for his audience.

Deut 6:1-12
¹These are the commands, decrees and laws the Lord your God directed me to teach you to observe in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess, ² so that you, your children and their children after them may fear the Lord your God as long as you live by keeping all his decrees and commands that I give you, and so that you may enjoy long life.

³ Hear, Israel, and be careful to obey so that it may go well with you and that you may increase greatly in a land flowing with milk and honey, just as the Lord, the God of your ancestors, promised you.

⁴ Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

⁵ Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

⁶ These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts.

⁷ Impress them on your children.

Talk about them when you sit at home

and when you walk along the road,

when you lie down and when you get up.

⁸ Tie them as symbols on your hands

and bind them on your foreheads.

⁹ Write them on the doorframes of your houses

and on your gates.

¹⁰ When the Lord your God brings you into the land he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to give you—a land with large, flourishing cities you did not build, ¹¹ houses filled with all kinds of good things you did not provide, wells you did not dig, and vineyards and olive groves you did not plant—then when you eat and are satisfied, ¹² be careful that you do not forget the Lord, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

The answer is not. Cue the Price Is Right trumpets.

Nobody painted themselves into a corner. You failed to answer Waysider's question. 

7 hours ago, waysider said:

When Jesus spoke of loving God, did it involve developing a reverence for the scrolls?

Where did Jesus say anything in your response? How many administrations removed is your answer from Jesus' time? 

Being natural men, I can see why they had to display love in that manner, however we have spirit.

2 hours ago, Mike said:

*/*/*/*

Paraphrasing:  You love God by loving His words and saturating your life with them.

And a little followup for us Christians with:

1 John 5:1-3
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. ² This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. ³ In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome...

 

Note John said keep his commandments, not saturating your life with God's words.

So, by your reasoning, I have to assume Saint Vic didn't love God, as how many of his commandments did he repeatedly break?

Second, Zen Buddhist would say, "Don't confuse the moon with the finger pointing at it." What's that mean? A modern day translation would be "The map is not the territory." Still not getting it?

Get a map of Florida and put it on the floor unfolded. Now stand on Miami. Are you in Miami? (Those who live in Miami and are visiting don't count.)

A map is what we use to find our way around. The with the bible, it helps us find our way around God. It's not God. Just as Robert B. Parker is so much more than the Spenser novels, God is so much more then the bible.

A Way mantra is "The Word, The Word, and nothing but the Word", not "God, God, and nothing but God." So, what are they worshipping? Does that "nothing but" mean nothing, not even God?

20 minutes ago, Mike said:

I'm dying to give the answer, but I should wait for Rocky and Oldskool to have a chance at it.

 

Excuses. excuses.

Why didn't you say that a few hours ago, when you were first asked the question and refuse to answer and then went into your you need to learn diatribe?

Just now, Mike said:

Oh, ok.  At your insistence I will seek to motivate you the right way. 
What do you think my chances of success are?

 

With that attitude zero. Believing equals receiving, right? But then you don't believe that anymore than I do. Otherwise you'd fix it.

1 minute ago, Mike said:

Oh noooo.

I'm doomed as doomed can be!

Not doomed. Just fail to get what you think you want.

1 minute ago, Mike said:

Fake zzz's don't fool me, when you are rushing to post and debate.

This is really a simple answer, but since it fits in with what we were taught, your deliberately blinded eyes can't see it when challenged.

I wouldn't be surprised if oldiesman or johniam get it right away.

 

 

No, I don't see where you get off telling me what I need to learn. You need to learn how to motivate people. Playing head games is one way NOT to motivate people.

1 minute ago, Mike said:

Think of this as a trivia question.

How did Jesus love God, and quote that commandment with a clear conscience that he had obeyed it?

How would those in Jesus' audience relate to hearing such a commandment. If theyh wanted to obey it, how would they do it?

Yawn Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Do you see us rushing to our bibles?

You've made us long past caring.

21 minutes ago, Mike said:

It is because you need to LEARN how to find it for yourself, and so do the others.

And who are you to tell us what we need to learn?

21 minutes ago, Mike said:

  I thought you Way Corps folks studied this stuff. 

Showing that love of God, I see. I  thought the love of God wasn't puffed up.

21 minutes ago, Mike said:

Man!   HOW to love God is in my standard witnessing repertoire, if I get that far.

I can see why you don't get very far. You act condescending, like you are now, and they slam the door in your face. 

21 minutes ago, Mike said:

Do you think Jesus would have issued that great commandment for the people to love God if they didn't know how to love Him.  They knew; Jesus knew.

Put on your thinking caps.

 

Now you're trying to change the subject.

Do you think this little game of yours is making us care about the answer? It's not. All it's doing  is putting your credibility further into question.

10 minutes ago, waysider said:

How is this even reasonable? You tell me the Bible says something. When I ask you where, you say I need to find it myself.

It's reasonable if you want to make it so you can make any claim you want about the bible.

Didn't Saint Vic himself in the class talk about believers requiring chapter and verse to any claim about the bible?

4 minutes ago, Mike said:

Not so fast.

Can't you dig for it?
At least let others try their hand at it.

Translation:  I don't have one  and I want you (So_crates) to do it for me.

5 minutes ago, Mike said:

I thought you'd never ask.

I would think if you thought he'd never ask you would have been prepared and included a verse.

5 minutes ago, Mike said:

Yes.

 

Chapter and verse?

1 minute ago, Mike said:

Agape shows me how to forgive and overlook your words that are off the Word and not in agape. 

That's not what you said. You said when we love we love their words and their will.

Now who's dodging?