cheranne

"Listening with a purpose"..

what was the deal with that?

Who's purpose?

"what is the greatest secret in the world today.."

"well, duh.. maybe it's.. the seats here are too hard.."

I think it was more of a little test. "are you COMPLYING with what's being presented?"

thats why johnney jumped up?

If bluebirds fly, then why can't I?

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don't ask.don't tell......

I heard different versions of this same story on numerous occasions.

I think the first time I heard it was from people who had taken the AC in 1971 or 1972.

The next time I heard it was at AC '73.

I don't recall if it was taught from the pulpit or covered in our twigs.

I also heard a version of it when my (now ex) wife returned from the class at Emporia in '77 or '78.

If I recall, I think there may be an account similar to this in one of the "spirit" books that TWI promoted for AC grads.

(ie: Challenging Counterfeit or one along those lines.)

I've heard different variations such as, "all lived except ----" and "all died except-----"

Why was VPW so consumed with devil spirits and the paranormal?

I thought he was the guy who was supposed to be showing us how to live "the more abundant life", no?

sounds like the great and powerful oz was asleep at the wheel! oh,yeah it was the little guy behind the curtain with the boom box.

I'm old school too – all this computer stuff is just the way things work now…I think we could work up an analogy with old school appeal – like how TWI screwed with your head being similar to how 8 Track Players eat a tape – it gets all crinkled up and doesn't work right after that.

yeah,sometimes it was like word searching everything like i was in a landmine field,no way to live like that ! i think that is why i write in symbolism so much? whatever works to help you .

me too.

well their is that war going on and retail sucks!

I don't think that question was in the poll okie.

SORRY.I didn't understand the question,i think symbolically alot,and i am not from oklahoma,i am just looking for lost people i knew in okc78.

Fatal attraction?

I love the spurs,i love manu ginobli and i love san antonio,i love the riverwalk and i realy don't care what anyone else thinks of that!

Well, thanks WG. :) I appreciate the appreciation, you're appreciated!

copenhagen, hopefully your still with us and your wife didn't throw you out.

"This old thing hasn't worked right in years, it's godda go!"

My stuff is my stuff. I like your reasoning a-Dan. Makes sense. Me, I really don't let anyone outside of our family get involved in my personal stuff to the extent anyone that isn't a blood relative or extremely close friend would feel compelled to advise me on what should stay or go. I have no spriritual advisors or the like when it comes to stuff. It's my stuff, I can't see why anyone would want to worry about it. I don't worry about theirs, y'know?

That doesn't apply to someone walking through my garage who doesn't want to wear a hard hat - once you're warned ya gotta watch your step. But not all the time - right now I'm coming out of several projects, so it's a moderately mazed-out mess. I'll resort and organize a little and within an hour or two be back ready to go to some more extremely important and vital projects.

YEAH. i should of never got rid of al my 70's music either that was just stupid. Ever heard of the burning man? What is this obsession with fire!

has anyone have any idea where mary jean gunning is now,pat bradshaw,? i think they got married and have differant names now.

i heard fastball the rock group who wrote the song the way were part of twi,that can't be true.

Ever think about what undershepherding was really all about?

Here's something from the W&US silly-bus.(page 12)

ON THE FOLLOW THROUGH

If you got their attention

1. Begin undershepherding

------------or-----------------------

2. Excuse Yourself

Titus 3:10

We isolated "newbies" from other "newbies" so they couldn't compare notes.

We insulated them from "tripped-out grads"(later known as "cop-outs") so they could not be adversely influenced to make logical considerations that conflicted with our objective.(ie: get them to sign the green card.)

It was all about selling the PLAF class.

If they weren't going to buy the product, we were to move on to other prospects.

Suppose we met someone who we had a genuine interest in, that didn't want to take "the class"?

No room for that sort of thing.

Got to fill those class seats and keep the "donations" coming.

From page 2:

"The basic reason we witness is to help people into the classes on Power for Abundant Living and help them to walk on it"

What does " and help them to walk on it" really mean? Sounds a bit like a pyramid arrangement, IMO.

Any thoughts on the subject?

i remember and to forget the people over 30! lucky them.

i remember and to forget the people over 30! lucky them.

to walk on it til we were strong enough to stand and having done all stand,stand,stand in answer to vpw call.

I was told by vpw personally that the wows are the heart of the "ministry" sadly that was true because these people like myself included were the ones who broke the ice for the new pfal students we were in a sense a human chainsaw,we were the ones that went ice diving with out new babe,undersheparding they called it but we were their with full tanks of oxygen and enough rope to get to the other side. I love those wows still,we were so hungry for the word and were very sincere,but they didn't see it coming either.............after sitting thru pfal everything changes it is altered. i honestly believe we all were trying to make our life better and meant no harm. OKC the bible belt "snap" talk about crack that whip,well i never had a bible in my life and i thought that this is so awesome,the ansers to life right here in this book (green card)and i don't mean for illigal aliens,although they said we were not of this world! Little did we know we would all need cpr,heart surgery for our coma like state. spiritually. I just want to say i am sorry to those i made fall thru the ice and went away the next year to another place to do the same thing to other people ,i am sorry i wasn't strong enough to help you get out or to call for help,but now i am OUT and strong enough and here 25 year later,and give you a hand up if you need one!

thanks for telling me that. I AM FROM SAN ANTONIO and like to know that kinda stuff,is she like the dixie chicks shut up and sing or like selena! just curious

Great post Oklahoma, and welcome to Grease Spot! Your hypothermia analogy is dead on for describing the numbing effect of the TWI mindset…Not long after joining Grease Spot - while watching The Matrix again – I was struck by a weird analogy. The Thomas Anderson/Neo character was me – asleep in a make-believe worldview fabricated by TWI – and what kept the whole thing going was their parasitic system that lived off the collective energy of its members. And it's quite a shock to the old noggin when, for whatever reason, you're jolted into reality.

And yes, the experience can leave some deep scars. That's one of the reasons I come to Grease Spot – which for me is sometimes like a CSI episode – through a collective effort we sort through the convoluted issues, emotions and experiences and try to make sense of things. My ongoing prayer for everyone who frequents here is for healing, understanding, and growth.

thanks t bone,i wish i knew about the grease spot a long time ago,it would have saved on therapy bills,i only have the internet because my kids got it and i broke free of my 8track and eagles takes the long way home. i am pretty old school!

Even if you think you've found your calling in life..until you are totally healed and deal with this properly you will always feel as if your under ice,properly meaning you can not ignore it. It just doesn't go away. but,with a deprograming of your mind with truth,it starts to filter out and with time you will heal,it is hard because what most of us need to deprogram is a bible and that is what twi uses as bait in a twisted half truth class of pfal. A person who has experienced this type of alternative religon feels as if he has been left out in the desert bitten by a rattle snake,they feel psychologically the scar where they sat and marked an x in the desert and repeatedly sucked out the poison out OVER AND OVER..waiting for the antidote,waiting...for the opening in the ice,the ESCAPE EXIT. Meanwhile during this transition trying to be strong and make it back to the hole in the ice where they first dove, with time your emotions to things once lost in the hypothermia brainwashing slowly come back,if not shut out and ignored thru other things trying to fill the gap,it's like quick sand it just never ends until it is filled with TRUTH. depending on the individual and the depth of the dive into the ice it could be three to ten to twenty years BEFORE THEY RESURFACE! That is IF AND WHEN after all that time they wake up and stand in the mirror so to speak and they see the mist or fog they never saw before and with THEIR HAND wipe it off and realize that is when THEY pick themselves out of the frozen lake. The exit has been found and the breakthrough has begun.........BUT it's not all that easy.. THE SCAR will always be their but hopefully as more former wow ambassadors(THE HEART of twi) Speak out we can prevent others from being so hurt,i am here because i care about the people of twi they are mostly very sweet caring people and that never did change. peace

Interesting poll Todd.

I'm in the middle on the first two and somewhat high on the rest.

Is that crazy or what?

Maybe I'm just waiting for something...

I don't like doing that.

Rather be doing it now.

A good way to look at myself I think.

As far as the poll gets me thinking.

Thanks.

Intresting poll,but i would never forgive someone who would hurt my child intentioally,i would and do report child abuse,that has nothing to do with being a christian or non whatever,if someone came into your house raped your wife and kids and shot them what would you do?

the feeling i felt after years of having left twi was as if my mind was under ice. such as to a victim who ice dives and the oxygen cuts off,like a freak accident,the victim looks for an opening while struggling to survive,and dependeing on the depth of the dive results in whether he will make it to the exit cut in te ice above. Under ice hypothermia can set in very easily if the conditionals are at the slightest bit altered or tampered with causing the BODY temperature to slow down but still function enough to survive in a coma like state. In this situation the victim may see the opening exit but,not be able to get their because of hypothernmia. i say all this top get to the point which is very hard to understand yet explain to one who has never experianced being involved in an alternative religion,cult whatever you may call it. now,i know their are books about cults and what they believe but few take you down thru the eyes of one captured,by the bait of TWI the lures and hooks that leave scars deep down in your soul,that only time can heal. websters define hypothermia as subnormal body temperature or the ARTIFICIAL REDUCTION OF BODY TEMPERATURE TO SLOW METABOLIC PROCESSES,usualy to assist the progress of HEART SURGERY.I believe this is a better description of what brainwashing realy is in this case. do you want to hear more?

Who has this book,go read it,its about immigrants coming to america in search of a better life,they get played over by big factory greed and money,in the process,loose themselves,factory does not care.....they move on not caring about the production of factory being clean,just get out the product even if it infects people and makes them sick,people die...............factory is still around infecting people. HOW does this sound to you and how does it compare with what twi did to you?

i like the group kansas,their is a lot of deep spiritual metaphors,i don't believe they were ever in twi,i also heard grace slick wrote a son caled jane about a girl from the way corp,what is the rumor on that inquiring minds want to know?

Folks, it might be interesting to find out a bit about who comes to the Cafe so if you're willing, let's ask the questions. If I missed out a relevant category, apologies, tick other and tell us about it below.

i was a military wow,it looks like a lot of people are not doing anything after leaving twi(AS FAR AS SPIRITUALLY)sorry didn't mean to yell, i went to so much therapy my therapist got a new mercedes!!!!! in the movie awakenings with robin williams the first opening line is what happens to fish when the water freezes...........the adapt,well in our case or so many like us we were under ice and someone had to rescue us,i personally felt in a hypothermic state spiritually and i wrote an in depth paper i call under ice about hyphothermic brainwashing in an american cult. iT IS DEEP.

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS I BELIEVE WE ALL STILL CARE ABOUT EACHOTHER BECAUSE WE ARE HERE ON THIS PAGE,WE ARE STILL A FAMILY OF THE BODY OF CHRIST WE NEVER LOST THAT,WHAT WE LOST WAS A BUISNESS TRYING TO ENSLAVE US TO DO '"their'"WORK FOR THEIR PROFIT AND I AM SO SORRY SO MANY PEOPLE WERE HURT.

hello,i am new at this and wish i knew about this a lot sooner,i got into TWI in oklahoma city,back when i was just a pup and lost in this great big world,no doubt looking for answers,meaning in life and trying not to get high all the time to self medicate,i was very happy when i found the okc wows in 78,pat bradshaw is the hitchhiker i picked up and she invited me to "a christian fellowship" o k a y......isnt that nice,so one night after sitting at a bar i went buzzed to her twig,they were showing THE CHANGED FILM. I was fasinated and such nice people,susan boulden was the branch leader and a hoot,they became my family and i loved it,then i went wow and things were differant kinda boring and nothing like okc(THEY WERE JUST PEOPLE THAT LOVED GOD and loved life)i got sent to idaho,grand teton area a learning experience and i am still looking for my wow family mary jean gunning from norman ok(IN CASE ANYONE KNOWS HER)ANYHOW........I LEFT TWI IN 83 AS a military wow at fort bragg north carolina,the reason i fell in love with a soldier and we asked if we could get married and they said NO ,SO that was like WTF see ya...they said because i knew so much(ha!)and anyway we have been married 25 years now,we have three kids and 2 grandkids and i still believe in GOD, just not into organized religon personally,if it works for you cool,i just go outside with nature. so that is in a nutshell my intro. chow

gee,sorry i am late i just found this site,i think legalism starts when you are no longer free,but a slave! be free.