ihrleben

Truth be told, many denominations feel that they've got the Scriptures figured out and that everyone else has it wrong. They state frequently that those who do not believe their way are doomed for hell. As a military chaplain I see it all of the time, and frequently have discussions with individuals over this issue. I don't believe any one group has it spot on. I do believe, however, that we are to do our best every day to serve the Lord and to understand the Bible through God's leading not our own understanding or through the understanding of any one denomination. The one clear cut criteria I see in the Bible for being a "believer" is accepting Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior.... I have yet to find a Scripture that says you're saved only if your a part of a certain denomination. Now that I've taken the scenic route to my conclusion, one thing I don't frequently hear is that the Bible was written for one faith group and no one else.... In effect, I see your point when it come to TWI.

LOL.... Bless you Ham! __________________________________________________________________________ FOR THE CRANKY PEOPLE IN THE THREAD Hey! Try to play nice with the other kids! This playground is big enough for all of us. The bottom line is this is about fighting them, not fighting each other; so, kiss and hug or whatever it is you do and make up already.

NO WAY!!!! YOU ARE KIDDING ME!!!!! Oh that's disgusting! This happened in Arizona? Well, isn't that just WIZARD! ________________________________________________________________________________ Yes, TWI is incorporated in AZ. I outta know, I live there and a group of Twiggers meet down the street from my house. Anyone care to go to a fellowship meeting with me?? ;) Just kidding, nobody shoot!

My story is a bit different than most. I grew up in the Way believing their teachings without questions. Into adult life I carried many of those beliefs with me without even realizing it. It influenced my life in ways that I can't remember in at this point. When my family walked away from the Way I was afraid to attend any church out of fear that another man would be made out to be God. Thankfully, I knew at least that much, that no man is God. What God did for me after losing the Way changed my life forever. He said, audibly, it's not about religion, it's about faith.... Do you have faith in me? I answered yes. At that point God began the fundamental changes in my life, and started to weed out incorrect Way teachings. The one thing I keep with me from those times is the ability to pray, and it was prayer that set allowed God to work in my life. So, no matter what happens it's key to keep praying because God will weed out the tumbleweeds. I recently attended a Twig meeting, and for those of you who were wondering, not much has changed. The "man of god" gives his interpretations of Scriptures while utilizing various sources and no one thinks to question cause he sounds like the authority--Crawled under my skin like a Guinea worm.... :blink: I can't begin to tell you how scared I was to walk into that meeting. I was literally shaking from all the emotion/memories and afraid of being discovered for the interloper I was. :ph34r: I can't begin to tell you how hard it is to play stupid and ignorant of all things Way when you're not. Of course, I couldn't keep my mouth shut on the Biblical stuff, so, I challenged some of what this guy was teaching. We had one young fella in there who didn't have my Biblical or Way background, and it took a force of nature to keep me from ripping him out of there. By the end of the meeting they asked me what I do, needless to say, I didn't tell them. The one comment that was made was I know my Scripture. Oops! Should kept my big mouth shut.

Good Day all! It perplexes me as well why people would choose to stay with this group, so, I intend to find out. I suspect the reasons are much the same for Mormons. For Mormons, they seem to stay for the close knit community and family relationships. I know that's what I found appealing about the Latter Day Saints. I was a misfit everywhere I went, but this group was willing to accept me just the way I was--society's unwanted. Granted, I have strong theological convictions that prevented me from going any further, but it would be easy to fall into the arms of Latter Day Saint love and forsake convictions. These groups prey on those who find themselves on the fringes emotionally. It's easy to turn a blind eye when all you want is to be loved and accepted. Acceptance is a need we all have, and it runs to the core of who we are. All our problems can be traced back to Acceptance in one form or another if the problem is followed to it's root. Ask a psychologist. Any psychologists available to expound on the topic?

Yep, hot button issue. Of course women should be in all facets of ministry! I'll answer questions as they come, cause I don't really feel like writing an exposition on the subject. However, it does make for a great discussion. I've spent a lot of time researching this topic. Questions? We can start in the OT or NT if anyone would like.....

I agree with you, God is judge. It's scripture. Christ acts on our behalf as, shall we say, our defense lawyer and the Holy Spirit comforts and advises (shares wisdom).

This is a hot button issue, so, no trashing, bashing or character attacking allowed. This is meant to be a place where we can come together, discuss our points of view and change perspectives. Ok, I'll start.... I've view the Trinity as three parts. God, Son and Holy Spirit. Each has their own job. God the decision maker and judge, Christ the Savior of the world and Holy Spirit the comforter and advisor. Although God can be viewed as the head, I believe it's more like the ultimate team. Each part loving the other completely. There is no division in the ranks. Decisions are made collectively. It is the example of servant leadership. The Holy Spirit bowing to the Son, the Son to the Father, and around we go.... As great leaders go, each submits and serves the other in love; thereby, no one part is greater than another servanthood. Each part is seperate. God is God, Jesus his Son and the Holy Spirit. I do not believe Jesus is God, just like I don't believe the Holy Spirit is God. I believe they are one in thought, but seperate parts. Onto Muslims, they seem willing to accept this explanation. I also do not believe that all Muslims are terrorists. Christians, during the Crusades, have been just as guilty of converting people by the sword as Muslims. Here in Afghanistan, terrorists are not considered Muslims. They're often hated and viewed as trash.... Many true Muslims fight alongside our forces over here, giving their lives for this country. Often those who are against terrorism place their own lives at risk. I admire these people, as share frequent converstaions with them. Ok, now it's your turn.

My bad.... Typed too soon.... :) Thanks for the correct. Thing is, I don't get is why fire someone as dedicated as him... If I were an occult, I would've kept him and tolerated the little irritations. To stop the itch, irritations and rashes are best handled with Cortizone cream. Rub a little on, the itch stops, and you go on about your business. Scratch, well, it spreads and ..... we know the rest of the story..... Not that I've ever had a rash or anything.... **A little humor and sarcasm there** ;)

All I can say is.... Why did JL break away from the Way when he seems to appreciate their doctrine as much as they do.... JL is no different that those the are a part of the Way in his beliefs, and if he thinks otherwise he's sadly mistaken. All he's done is allowed for continued abuses, and the creation of another occult that robs people. Great man of God my foot! I take that back, not my foot.... I'd use my foot, but I like my foot and my boot. Could see it now, give him a swift Godly kick in the behind. It would be a three legged race, him running for the hospital and me trying to get my foot out of his butt. Other than that I'd lose my boot and nothing would be accomplished. <_< **Sigh**

The thing is, you all weren't stupid. You're intelligent beautiful people. You were brainwashed. They used your faith and desire to serve the Lord for their own purposes. I understand a thing or two about occults. From the outside looking in it's a beautiful thing. They don't start out with the crazy nonsense, no, they start out with the stuff that sounds right and fits what we understand. Then they take the truth, and twist in tiny little ways that barely noticeable until it all adds up to one big fact. They'll claim it's right, then they use fear, peer pressure and religion to keep you in line, and to prevent you from questioning. Because we were integrated slowly we don't quite recognize the lie until it's almost too late. That is not your fault, it's theirs. Your faith, sincere desire to serve the Lord and emotions were manipulated by by experts. It's the proverbial frog in water on a hot stove. The frog doesn't realize the water is getting hot until it's boiling, but by then it's too late. It's kinda like the German people during World War II. Hitler didn't jump in and start killing Jews. He started slowly. When he did try to implement the final solution too early, the people rejected it. So, he took the road I mentioned above. When German citizen say they didn't know about the killings, many of them weren't lying--they were programed not to look. God removed you from this situation before it was too late. My mom was floating in the same boat as you were when it came to standing up to my father. I've grown up since then, and I am a new person, and God has been faithful. I don't blame my parents for what The Way did. You shouldn't blame yourself.

I wanted to put this in in response to the comment about Adam and Eve, so, a few things can be clarified.... Genesis 3:6 (KJV) And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make on wise, she took of the fruit thereof and did eat, and gave also to her husband WITH her; and he did eat. Adam was with Eve, therefore, without excuse. He wasn't out in the woods praying or naming animals as some would suppose, he was right there with Eve. The message was given directly to him from God, and he should have spoken up. I can't help but be moved by what you've written here. TWI tore my family apart. It was just as bad for the kids. I was a kid growing up in TW from about the time I was two until I was 15. My father was a horrible man, and The Ways teaching only allowed him to get away with what he was doing. He committed adultery multiple times, and my mom turned a blind eye to it cause he was the "man of God." She figured she wasn't meeting his "sexual needs." I also remember it being taught by VP that wives/women are supposed to meet a man's sexual needs so he can focus on the spiritual things....sheesh! My father abused us in multiple ways that I don't care to disclose, but believe me if you can imagine it it''s not far off. My mom turned a blind eye to this as well because he was "the man of God," and she figured she couldn't cope with out him. First came God (at least that's the rumor). Then he was the Head, he comes first in everything cause he's the man of God.... Then us kids.... Ack! It was awful. When we finally broke away for TW my father was kind enough to rip everything I understood as God out from under me, and replaced it with nothing. I remember when I was 13, my father confined me to the attic. I told him that I needed to use the restroom, and he refused. I was so fed up with his stuff that I stood there on the steps leading up to the attic, looked him straight in the eye and ....ed myself. After all was said and done, he never denied me the right to use the bathroom again. You're absolutely right, what TW teaches is disastrous for relationships and children.

Not going as planned, satellite probs, sorry for multiple postings

Just read the excerpts of the John Lynn letter. I only have one thing to say about his letter..... Are you S**TIN ME! I'm going to go and watch Teletubbies on the telly so I can numb my brain a bit more.... Maybe I'll drool on my shirt while I'm at it.... **Leaves room**

An accusation, hardly. The bottom line is there are those who are doing this, maybe not you, but then again who knows. Unforgiveness is poison. That's a fact, not an accusation.

Absolutely! Like I said in some of my previous posts, talking and educating are fine, yet, I'm seeing pain here. I'm seeing a lot of people living with that pain and unable to let it go. It's not a matter of one day your in and the next day your out--no big deal. Healing is a process, and we need to continue healing; otherwise, we get stuck at one point and that affects the rest of our lives. It almost seems like there are those individuals who are stuck, and need help to continue on the path of healing. I'VE NEVER SAID IT WAS A PROBLEM DISCUSSING OR EDUCATING, but I'm seeing more than just discussing and educating going on. I'm seeing some, not all, hurting people who need help forgiving so they may be made whole. Many of us here have a pretty good understanding of what forgiveness is, so, why is this so tough to hear? Is it because there are those that are afraid that if they do forgive than what they experienced isn't valid, or that VP and LCM get away with what they've done? Forgiveness doesn't allow them to get away with what they've done, nor does it invalidate what we've gone through. It's real! It happened! We were betrayed! And it hurts.... But, when do we stop drinking the poisons of anger, bitterness, fear, sadness and hopelessness? When do we stop believing that drinking these poisons into our own souls somehow affects them?

I agree that this should go on a doctrinal thread. I could write pages on the topic. Here's the short of it as I see it. Forgiveness doesn't mean they get away from what they did or the consequences. It also doesn't mean forgetting all that's happened, and walking right back into the same trap. What it means is release from our burdens. When we carry around unforgiveness it's like having a ruck sack filled with rocks. And each time we have another grievance and we fail to forgive it's like adding rocks to that ruck until it gets to the point that we can't carry it anymore. Unforgiveness bog us down, wears us out, allows those who hurt us to still have control in our lives even if they're no longer around and it can potentially stall our lives as well as our walk with God.

Waysider, No problem. I get why you don't feel compassion for these individuals. My biggest point is what ever happened to forgiveness?

Let me be clear, I'm not saying that what they did was right. It was clearly WRONG. Their fruits were rotten. I've also said that it is ok to walk away, educate others against their teachings etc. Common sense says what they've done is wrong, however, we are not without sin either. Although you and I do not agree on the judging bit, which is fine, I think we can agree upon the egregious nature of their actions. I choose not to judge, because I'm far from perfect and have no right to "cast stones." That being said, I will say that they were wrong. Trust me when I tell you I've spent years unlearning TWI gospel. It's insidious. It gets into the cracks of your mind, in places that you don't recognize and affects life in ways we hardly recognize until it's pointed out to us. Sometimes we get so bent on judging that we forget forgiving. These people, as terrible as their actions were, still have control in our lives as long as we carry this burden around with us by saying we have the right to judge them has horrible people. It shows that we're still hurt and angry for what they've done. Our focus shouldn't be upon how wrong they were, but on how do we help ourselves and those around us to forgive the sins that were committed against us and others. We can stand around all day pointing fingers, or we can choose to begin the process of healing for our sakes and for the sakes of others. I'm new to this site, and have only written in this thread, but it's clear there are a lot of hurting people here who need the love of the Lord and healing. Not preoccupation with judgment. If anything, I feel compassion for those VP and LCM ripped apart and deceived. However, I also feel compassion these men because they too were deceived by Satan and the price they pay is absolutely terrible even though they brought it upon themselves. Be careful in your judgments and anger so as not to become as guilty as they are. This thread started out by asking the difference between sin and evil. The bottom line is sin is evil in God's eyes, because it goes against his very nature. VP, LCM, you, me and others have all sinned. So if you judge VP and LCM as evil and as bad people do you include yourself in that category? Judge not lest ye be judged.... He who is without sin let him cast the first stone.... Take the beam out of your own eye.... etc, etc, etc....

Wordwolf: I appreciate you challenging me. I'm not sure what version of the Bible you're using, but the KJV reads 2 Cor. 11:12-15 1. But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 13. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15. Therefore, it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. In these scriptures Paul isn't judging, he's warning us against false apostles and ministers--telling us what to look for. Also, Paul is saying that those who follow this path will reap what they sow, but I see no judgement here. 16 Marks of false ministers in 2 Cor. 1. Hold secret things of shame (4:2) 2. Walk in craftiness (4:2) 3. Handle Word deceitfully (4:2) 4. Walk and war after the flesh (10:3) 5. Look on outward appearance (10:7, 1 Sam. 16:7, Mt. 23:27-28) 6. Commend selves to others (10:12) 7. Compare selves to others (10:12) 8. Prey on works of others (10:15-16) 9. Greedy of income (11:7-12) 10. False: Seek highest offices (11:13) 11. Deceitful workers (11:13) 12. Counterfeit apostleship (11:13) 13. Pose as righteous ministers (11:15) 14. Seek occasion to glory (11:12) 15. Boastful and self-exalting (11:18) 16. Destitute of apostolic signs (12:12) Satan inspires his ministers to imitate Christianity and even do miracles (Mt. 24:24, 2 Th. 2:8-12, Rev. 13; 16:13-16; 19:20). John 2:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgement. [\b] This begs the questions what in context is this written and what is righteous judgement? In these verses Jesus is rebuking inconsistent practices on the Sabbath. ADAM CLARKE COMMENTARY Attend to the law, not merely in the letter, but in its spirit and design. Learn that the law which commands men to rest on the Sabbath day is subordinate to the law of mercy and love, which requires them to be ever active to promote God's glory in the comfort and salvation of their fellow creatures; and endeavour to judge of the merit or demerit of an action, not from the first impression it may make upon your prejudices but from its tendency, and the motives of the person, as far as it is possible for you to acquaint yourselves with them; still believing the best, where you have no certain proof to the contrary. JOHN GILL'S EXPOSITION ON THE BIBLE Judge not according to the appearance… Or through respect of persons, and so as to please men, the Scribes and Pharisees; who had condemned the action of Christ, in curing the diseased man on the sabbath day, and sought to kill him for it: but judge righteous judgment; give your sense and judgment of things, according to the truth and evidence of them; and do not find fault with that, which you yourselves allow of, and which Moses and his law, and your own practices, justify. Matt. 7:1-5 1. Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4. Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5. Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. It seems to me that judgement is a risky endeavor with real consequences. Do we have the right to be casting stones? Gal. 1:6-9 6. I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. In this context Paul is dealing with the things that the Galatians were doing wrong. I really don't feel like doing another list right now, so, I'm not going to go through it all. However, he was dealing with going back under the law and substituting it for the gospel, which was perverting the gospel of Christ. You see, the gospel had not only been preached to them, but they had received it and the benefits of it. Going back to.... ADAM CLARKE Verse 7. Which is not another It is called a gospel, but it differs most essentially from the authentic narratives published by the evangelists. It is not gospel, i.e. good tidings, for it loads you again with the burdens from which the genuine Gospel has disencumbered you. Instead of giving you peace, it troubles you; instead of being a useful supplement to the Gospel of Christ, it perverts that Gospel. You have gained nothing but loss and damage by the change. Verse 8. But though we, or an angel That Gospel which I have already preached to you is the only true Gospel; were I to preach any other, I should incur the curse of God. If your false teachers pretend, as many in early times did, that they received their accounts by the ministry of an angel, let them be accursed; separate them from your company, and have no religious communion with them. Leave them to God who will show his displeasure against all who corrupt, all who add to, and all who take from the word of his revelation. Verse 9. Let him be accursed Perhaps this is not designed as an imprecation, but a simple direction; for the word here may be understood as implying that such a person should, have no countenance in his bad work, but let him, as Theodoret expresses it, αλλοτριοςεστωτουκοινουσωματοςτηςεκκλησιας, be separated from the communion of the Church. This, however, would also imply that unless the person repented, the Divine judgments would soon follow. Again, I don't see judgement here. He's telling the people to walk away if they need to, and not to commune with them that teach falsely lest they be corrupted. I see the pointing out of wrongs, and the consequences that will follow if they continue. It is left to God to meet out Divine judgement. Moving on.... Gal. 6:1-8 1. Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. 2. Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. 3. For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. 4. But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. 5. For every man shall bear his own burden. 6. Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things. 7. Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. This whole section is key in dealing with TWI, but pay close attention to verses seven and eight.... What we see are two destinies. One of living according to the spirit and one according to the flesh, but no judgements on Paul's part. These are consequences of bad choices. It's about choices... Just as surely as everything in nature reproduces after its kind, harvests being as sure as the sowings, so every man will reap what he sows and be responsible for his one destiny. It is folly to talk about reaping eternal life when one sows to the flesh; just as, it is folly to talk about reaping flesh if one sows to the spirit. To judge or not to judge that is the question. Whew, my head hurts!

Yes..... Matthew 12:31 (KJV) Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Let me start by saying, Paul thought he was doing the right thing for God. His heart was in the right place, but his actions were clearly wrong. In effect, when Christ appeared to Paul and showed him the error of his ways, he repented and change. Again, Paul's heart was willing, and his motives were for the Kingdom even though his methods were wrong, so, when he was shown he was messing the gig up, he changed. When you say judge according to God's standards not the world's, I get that; however, we are not to judge because we don't know what's in a man's heart. In the cases of VPW and LCM, we have no right to judge them as good or bad, yet, we have the right to say that what they did was wrong--their fruits are bad, not they're bad people. You see, only God knows what those two were thinking and what led them to betray their sheep etc. Bottom line, we know part of their story, but certainly not all of it; therefore, we say they were wrong--it's God's place to judge. Let's put Paul up against LCM and VPW. Based upon outward appearances one could argue that Paul (earlier on) was an evil and a bad man--but was he really? Or, was he just a bit mixed up in his philosophies? The difference being, when Paul recognized the error he corrected it unlike VPW and LCM or even the Pharisees who continued in their own selfish sin. It's all about choices and motivations of the heart.

I wanted to address some of the questions posed to me before I head downrange. I'll be gone for a few days, but I'll be back. God never gives up on his creation, rather, we give up on him. If the Pharisees had repented, or showed a repentant heart Christ would've accepted them. The key here is, they weren't repentant. They were blinded by their own selfish desires and arrogance. There comes a point where we as must shake the dust from our feet and offer it up to the Good Lord; however, that doesn't mean God quit. He loves us no matter what, just like a parent who loves an errant child. Granted, there are consequences for the decisions that child makes, but as a parent God never stops loving. Granted, Groucho, we are supposed to know the difference between right and wrong. What that doesn't mean is judge. Judge not, lest ye be judged. As Christians we can choose to help those who are in the wrong, pray for them to see the light, educate others against the wrong or even walk away, but that doesn't mean judge. Judgement is best left up to God, because only God knows the true intentions of a person's heart. As human beings we are often limited by what we see, "know them by their fruits," and sometimes what we see can be deceiving. It's like the homeless man who's lying drunk on the street or pandering for money. His fruits clearly aren't good, but we have a choice, do we judge this man as worthless? For all we know he may be a veteran who suffered terrible losses during war, experienced mental illness due to what he saw, and as a result lost everything. In effect this veteran paid the ultimate price for his country. So, is this person really worthless, or are they someone we should show compassion? On the one hand are eyes are saying trash of society, but only God knows the full extent of this individual's condition. No, judgement as to whom gets to heaven and who doesn't is God's and God's alone. The fruits allow us to determine whether it's right or wrong, but not level judgement.

Well, no. A good person is just as capable of evil as a bad person. Let's take this a step further, and define evil and screw up as the same thing--sin. All sin is evil in God's eyes because it goes against his nature, but it does not stop him from loving us. As a parent, my kids have moments of disobedience, but it doesn't mean I toss them out on the street. However, what we do once we've realized we sinned will determine whether we continue to live in sin (evil). Some people are willing to admit their mistakes, take responsibility for them, ask for forgiveness, and determine to make a change so as not to make the same mistake again. Others, like the Pharisees or the money changers, were arrogant and didn't want to be corrected. They weren't taking care of others, but taking care of themselves at the expense of others--selfishness. Again, it is the heart condition of the individual. Will they confess, take responsibility, ask for forgiveness and seek change. Let me make this very clear, God doesn't stop loving his creation no matter how messed up they may be. Believe it or not, God still loves LCM. If he chose to repent for the harm he's caused, and was willing to do what it takes to correct his past, you better believe God would welcome him back with open arms. That's what repentance is, sincere change. Sometimes, we hurt others unwittingly. It happens. So what we do when we realize it makes the difference. Individuals who recognize the pain they are causing others, and do nothing about it are, shall we say, set aside until such time as they are willing to change. God doesn't work against the human will, and if we choose to live according to a certain lifestyle, despite the obvious road signs were wrong, he's not going to force us to stop. Yet, they will at some point pay a heavy price for their actions (consequences). If God wanted a bunch of willing robots to follow his every command, he would've created us that way. Instead he gave us freedom of choice going all the way back to the garden of Eden. It all comes down to choices. God created us to worship, and we will (GUARANTEED!) worship something, whether it be ourselves, money, our car or Him. If you're wondering why bad things sometimes happen to good people, I don't have that answer. I can't explain why a child molester is allowed to sexually abuse a child (the molester is making a choice), and that child has to suffer the consequences of that abuse. What I can tell you is if that child is willing, God can and does heal! What's more, if the molester repents (change), God will help them to change and will welcome them back. But that doesn't mean the molester doesn't receive consequences. Hope this helps. Oh yeah, you can call me "ben" for short.

Greetings: Here’s my take on the subject.... If you look at the Gospels, Christ loves the sinner but despises the self-righteous. You see, when we become arrogant we are hard to teach, but when we’re humble we take correction easier. That was the problem with the Pharisees, the were so convinced that had it spot on that Christ couldn’t do anything with them. In effect, they were all show, but no heart. This is why humility is so important. When we remember who is God and where we came from we can be taught. However, if we are so full of ourselves that we think we have it all figured out, kinda like the teenage kid who looks at his/her parents as stupid, we don't learn; therefore, we don’t grow. We in turn, become hard hearted. Self-righteousness is placing oneself before God. LCM is a good example of this. I don't believe the man started out evil, or ever intended to be evil. Perhaps, he started with good intentions; however I believe that his arrogance got the best of him. He was blinded by pride, which allowed the devil to come in to rob him and countless others. Let me preface my statement about humility. Humility isn't humiliation, self loathing or a low self-esteem. Humility is remembering the fact that God picked us up out of the puke valley and set us on the mountain top. An example of this is my life. I grew up in The Way until I was 15 years old. When my father found out about the fraud he literally ripped everything I understood to be true about God out and replaced it with nothing. It was God who came into my life and picked me up. Now remember, I was only 15 at the time, I couldn't have done it on my own. This is just one example of God's miraculous power, and I have many more. The thing I keep in mind is this, I wouldn't be who I am or where I'm at if God hadn't brought me here. This reminds me daily why I must stay attuned to God and willing to accept his guidance no matter what position I am placed in. Without him I would most assuredly become like LCM. Let me bring this full circle. Granted, there are consequences for our actions. LCM experienced some of those consequences; however, there is also mercy. Sometimes we make bad choices. We repent and God grants us forgiveness for our sin, but we still have to answer for what we've done. When we ask the Lord for mercy, we’re asking for release from the consequences. Every now and again we might get a yes, but at other times it’s no. It's funny, but the human beings have a tendency to learn more from their mistakes, failures and consequences than they do from the successes. Consequences also serve to remind us who is God, and God isn’t us. The bottom line is we can have confidence and a good self-esteem, but we must be careful not to let it become arrogance.