Broken Arrow

Tell your branch or area "coordinator" that you're homo, or a drug addict..

Just lie about it. And when they present reasons why you no longer are affiliated with da way to the group. Even a mere "he has some problems. He's off working on them.."

press charges.

That might be fun, but if the guy's in TWI he's not going to have any money. So it would be an expensive experiment.

In pfal? Hmmmmm.....

I think it was in PFAL. I was wrong once before, you know.

BTW - I've heard that those Historical Tours are being conducted again by someone who is NOT with associated with headquarters any longer, but who lives in the area. Another sign that many continue to consider VPW "the man of God" despite evidence to the contrary.

Are you saying that HQ is paying someone else to do the tours, or that someone else has taken it upon themselves to do the tours?

Hmm. Is it a coincidence that at the bottom of this page it says FBI school, campus or online. I saw a drug bust in progress in San Francisco in 1972. I was walking to this place on Market Street and there were 3 or 4 guys standing up in handcuffs next to this unmarked car. There was an FBI guy in charge. Small crowd had gathered. I had long hair at the time. So a voice asks me do you know if they were arrested for sales? Like I'm supposed to know this? I was 18. I said I don't know. That was my closest brush with the FBI.

As I review this, the bottom of the page has an advertisement for nanny services, and another for housecleaning services. Coincidence?

Actually, he said it in PFAL. This is a rare instance where he actually attributed a quote to someone else, in this case Rufus Mosely. He probably said it at the other events as well. I dunno Sky, a lot of Bible teachers say stuff like this. I don't think he was trying to introduce doubt or anything like that.

You're absolutely right, the assumption was that if you knew "The Word", then you were competent to counsel. There was no teaching or training on counseling, are you kidding me? So, as a Corps person, if you are told you're competent to counsel and someone comes along with a problem you have no answer for, there are only 2 alternatives. One is to admit you are simply at a loss and can't help them. That is completely unacceptable to both you and the counselee. I mean, what's the use of wearing that green name tag if you don't have all the answers? The other alternative is to assume there is something wrong with the counselee. That's the easiest strike because the counselee has already admitted they're having a problem. You've saved face, and the counselee doesn't suspect your incompetence.

Then there was my approach which was to quote Bible verses at people and tell them to renew their minds. That must have been an incredible comfort. Interestingly, no one ever came to me for counseling more than once. I always thought it was because they were healed.

Who knows, maybe some intern 10 years from now will open a file and see pictures of people sitting on chairs in a tent and wonder....what was this all about?

Some of us do that now.

Your learning lesson 10 and we're on lesson 5. If you learn lesson 10 now, what will we have to teach you when we get to lesson 10?:)

SoCrates

It's like a house, you see. Before you can even approach the pinnacle of lesson #10, you must first "master" lesson #5. The time you spend on lesson #10 is taking away from the time you need to spend on lesson #5. It would be the epitome of pride for you to jump ahead to the other lessons. You were told by the Man of Gawd not to jump ahead in the syllabus (see how green it is?). Since the MOGFOT has said this, you jumping ahead is really a sin against God. If you proceed to lesson #10 before you're ready, you could get possessed, and the devil will steal the greatness and the power of the knowledge of God's matchless Word from your heart and life. The adversary will have free reign to steal, kill, and destroy the joy and comfort of knowing God's Word rightly divided from you. You're roof could cave in at any second. You'll forget how to speak English, and annoying people will enter your home and keep you awake all night with their endless laughter. Stop this madness before it's too late! Please! Because if the other leaders find out that I've allowed you to proceed to lesson #10 against the word of the Man of Gawd, I won't get to be Branch Leader. I won't be able to act cool in front of my other Corps members. It reflects poorly on me.

By the way, since you're in the Advanced Class, you should consider coming into the Way Corps where you can learn the proper way to place spoons on a table.

This is where I would insert a humorous comment of my own...if I could only think of one.

I could have heard what I wanted to hear at the time. It's been so long, and others seem to have a different take.

We don't know that there weren't FBI agents on grounds either. My point is, neither did Wierwille. Even if there were government agents amongst us incognito, what was the profit (to coin a Way phrase) in shouting it from the main stage? He gave no evidence or even said how he knew. No, Wierwille was grand standing. The more he could perpetuate an "us vs. them" mentality, the greater the control he could yield.

In the CF&S class, he said that husbands and wives should each have a "lockbox" where they keep information about their sexual history that they don't share with each other. After reading Losing The Way, it's pretty clear why he taught that. I'm finding it hard to believe I actually sat there and listened to this garbage.

I remember him talking about "the lockbox" in CF&S. I don't remember him saying anything about couples keeping their sexual history from each other. I remember it being about not bringing up the past, as in not continuing to bring up another spouses mistake once it's been discussed.

I'm not defending anything here, I'm just sharing my own recall.

Wierwille claimed there were FBI agents on grounds, but were there realy? We don't know.

I lived in San Francisco in the early 70s. Saw several porn type movies there. Since then the only porn movies I saw were at believers' bachelor parties. CF&S was NOT serious porn. I kind of admired that a church bred guy would dare to present sex that honestly. I saw many examples of parents and children taking the same CFS class. Wouldn't quite be the same atmosphere in a church.

What is "serious porn", anyway? Does that mean there is also "funny porn"? I mean, since you lived in San Francisco in the 70's, you must know, you must be an expert. I just live in Ohio, you know, the Bible Belt. Nobody here but us chickens. Call it what you will, Wierwille showed erotic, sensual pictures in CF&S. Furthermore, what is so admirable about a church-bred guy showing pictures of naked couples and calling it Biblical Research? Not only that, but he for some reason chose to share vernacular words of certain body parts. Like we didn't know those words? What was the purpose of that? He said it was so we could be "educated" and familar with those words so that when unbelievers said them we would know what they meant. Uh huh. Your last sentence implies that the church is naive and religious about the subject of sex. That's just not the case. Go to a Christian bookstore sometime and look around. A lot of authors have written books on the subject of sex and sexuality. I would recommend a book titled Sacred Sex. If you think it's going to be some "mamby pamby" pie-in-the-sky writing, think again.

Now, before I get too self-righteous here, I voluntarily sat through the class (with my mother...ewww!). I voluntarily sat through the class quite a few more times AND I recommended the class to others. If I was so "put off", why did I support it? No one forced me to go nor did they force me to stay. If none or very few of us attended that class, it would have died on the vine. So, I have to admit, and I have repented of my participation. My participation helped fuel the fire and helped to lead others into that garbage.

some of the newer generation, will check your credit, your criminal record.. your academic history, your prostrate.. before they will give you a half an ounce of trust..

which is sad in a way. A depraved fiend can hide well behind an impeccable credit rating, criminal history, academic excellence..

Yes, but can he hide behind an enlarged "prostrate"? <_<

Crosby Stills and Nash's version was so.. lame. that isn't entirely the name..

no, they embodied it.

when they published it, it had the authors name attached..

I liked CSN's version and Ms. Mitchell's, though we all know who wrote it. Am I a cop out? Confused? Caught beween two camps...again???!!!

I heard Joni Mitchell had polio when she was 9 and was hospitalized. I also heard that little Joni took her guitar with her and entertained the other patients. I think that was sometime before she wrote "Free Man in Paris".

No. You're right, that's pretty funny!

Sorry, BA. I thought everyone around here knew that I was never in TWI. That's probably why I was able to chuckle at that billboard.

This wasn't TWI, this was a group called the "People's Temple" out of California. In 1978 their leader, Jim Jones, led many of the group to Guyana in South America and started a settlement called Jonestown. Congressman Leo Ryan along with his aides as well as journalists visited Jonestown to investigate human rights allegations. As Ryan's plane was leaving with some who wanted to leave Jonestown, some of Jones' followers both inside and outside the plane opened fire. Ryan and 4 others were killed.

Shortly thereafter, Jim Jones gathered his followers in Jonestown where he convinced the assembly of 918 to commit suicide using Flavor-aid and a mixture of deadly chemicals. Of the 918 deaths, 276 were children. This is considered the single largest loss of non-military American life prior to 9/11. It was a very very tragic and horrifying event. This was a major story in 1978; not one of interest only to groups like TWI. Not many even outside of TWI got a laugh out of this. It shows the power one man can wield over people. If you're interested in more information, you can check out this link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown.

There was also an award-winning documentary done on this in 2006.

Wierwille used this to advance his conspiracy theory which, by the way, was the exact same thing Jones was doing with his people. In any event, during Advanced Class '79, he had someone who was in the U.S. Army and a PFAL grad talk about the transport planes that were sent from the U.S. to retrieve the bodies of the victims. According to this person, the planes were full of military equipment the U.S. was sending to the Guyanese government. The equipment was unloaded as the bodies were loaded. Thus, the whole thing was a ruse, or a front for justifying a large airlift of military supplies from the U.S. to Guyana.

I thought it was kinda funny (What can I say? I involuntarily chuckled..sorry), but definitely in bad taste -- and probably not a very effective marketing tool in the long run, I imagine. I could see where it would hurt or otherwise bother many people.

Are you old enough to remember when the incident happened in 1978? Just curious.

I

Warning: stay away from the bar in the mexican restaurant when making up phrases for bill boards, its not so good in the morning

Excellent point!

Some of you might have seen this on the Internet. This billboard is unbelievably terrible. It's amazing someone thought this was "catchy". Check out the link.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110222/ap_on_fe_st/us_odd_billboard_flap_jonestown_3

As I moved into looking at various thread discussions, one of the first ones I read was the L.E.A.D. thread. That was definitely an eye opener, to say the least.

Hmm. That was one of the first one's I actually broke down and read too! I had the same reaction you did. I was in the Corps with those guys.

I suppose a sub topic might be explored in trying to understand why some people feel compelled to ignore the rudamental information before participating.

Live people are more interesting maybe? I dunno, that's what I did. I was on the forums for awhile before I was felt like reading the posts in Actual Errors. If you're new, you look at all those posts on actual errors and go "ugh". Looks kind of tedious. That, and I thought I knew a lot of the errors anyway. Eventually I went over there to see what I could see.

I seem to remember that at one point raspberry leaf tea was highly recommended for pregnant women, but have no personal experience with that.

I am not a woman, nor do I play one on T.V. Both my first wife and sister, however, swore by raspberry leaf tea during their pregnancies. Raspberry leaf tea does not typically induce labor. My sister was a bit overdue. She drank a cup of the tea and went into labor within a few minutes. She doesn't think the tea caused the labor but she thinks the tea helped to restore a healthy "balance" in her body so that she could go into labor. My first wife simply said raspberry leaf tea helped her feel better overall.