socks

You think God would have given revelation to somebody a lot sooner to help keep things clean? Maybe He did, but nobody listened. Or, perhaps He remained silent for some greater good. I guess it all depends on your theology. I don't believe that God is ever silent. I don't believe that God ever inserts Himself into our lives in such a way that it would cause harm either, harm being counter productive to our own well being and continuance. There are however limitations, described as far back as Genesis, with "Adam and Eve". The nature of this life we currently have is that there will be conflict, struggle and opposing forces, not only from an "adversary" but also because we as a people aren't unified or "one", we are many and we function independently and as individuals. Our "free will" or ability to choose is, IMO, largely seen less in how we decide for ourselves alone and more in how we decide to live and function together as a group and therein is seen the chaotic march of mankind. Within that we have the challenge to learn and build, as long as we live. Two records that speak to that are Jeremiah 18, and Isaiah 64:8, a snapshot view. I see Jeremiah as the long view, so to speak, of God's working witih mankind.

ChasU: I remember the tape that LCM sent out to household fellowship coordinators and their assistants back in 1999, when we were told, "Stay off the internet!" It was then that I KNEW something ugly was brewing. So, I went on the internet to find out what it was! Viva Waydale! We often were told "it's none of your business!" or "why do you want to know?" or "you'll find out what you need to know when you need to know it!" "You were such a great believer once and we really thought you'd go in the Corps and really make something of your life. It was on Waydale that MANY innies were able to learn what was really going on. They stopped asking leadership what had happened or why because they got their answers from a much better source. TWI Gestapo shouldn't have been surprised when people sought other sources for their information IF TWI Gestapo had been smart..... G.St.G: It sort of begs the question, "What would TWI be like now if they HAD told the membership what was going on?" There probably would have been an exodus of the outraged, but I suspect that a lot of others would have remained, because it was the stonewalling that turned them off. Their pattern was duplicitous, to say the least. Tell certain things, the most basic high level information that wouldn't elude to the fact that anything was really wrong but paint the problem as one of malcontents making trouble. Tell everyone not to go on the internet and start poking around. (knowing WayDale's online) (Keeping in mind that even as LCM said that he knew completely different. He knew the bell ringer was gearing up for a tollin'). (Also keep in mind that they went from 0 to 90 in just a few months, with LCM ultimately being fired and stripped of all official status and recognition with the Way. SOMEthing must have been brewing all those months that wasn't uh, salted.) Then - if anyone asks about anything that wasn't covrered in the meetings or letters or tapes - it's a dead giveaway that they've been getting information from alternative sources. A ha!!! You've been on the internet, exercising your God-given right to choose, think and evaluate. No WONDER you're at cross purposes to the Way! They think. Apparently they were assuming that no one else is thinking because if anyone is, they're bound to come up with a few questions with or without the internet, regardless. Like "What's going on?" Again - the horse that can't be beat - Rico Magnelli's statement to make these matters visible and clear to their membership was a mighty claim, honorable and full or promise. If only it had been so. I agree GeorgeStGeorge - in theory. I would think that if there had been some reasonable effort to provide the kind of A-to-Z detail that was promised, a lot of people might have acted differently. Like, they might have tried to actively help, instead of being asked to loiter around with prayer cloths in-hand, waiting for the Next Big Lie to come down the pike.

Thanks Highway. That puts a needed perspective on the topic. What motivates a person, any of us? We all have our own needs, interests, desires. They had, have theirs. Strength is something that's difficult to require of another, methinks. In the past it's been so common in the Way to demand it. We often need help, support. No doubt there's intelligence and design behind the path the Way's chosen on their "communications". Not sure who's, or how they came to the conclusion it's supports their claim though. Ham: options. Indeed. It's difficult when the options are limited and the comfort zone is high, I guess. Change? As Dilbert sez: "Change is good. You go first". Not you specifically Ham, but overall, we hoomans are great followers. Our greatest successes seem to be by those out front, taking the new ground. You're welcome, anotherDan. Lots of food for thought. Hope to have it end of this year, too!

Hey Brush - my take: "self-righteous arrogance" is pretty common, as is dangerous zeal. Not just the religious kind, although that adds a unique pigment to both. Solomon's claim of "vanity" - he concluded that "all" is vanity anyway - and he came to a simple conclusion. My perspective on my youth, the year 1968, and what it was like for me is that it wasn't the youthful enthusiasm that attracted me to the Way. I brought the youthful enthusiasm. It didn't attract me. I looked for space to exercise it. Youthful enthusiasm - this reminds me, bear with me for a sec...years ago the company I worked for had an internal department survey and part of it was open to comments. One of the comments that was made and brought back into our debrief and discussion meeting was that "many of our managment staff are much younger than the people the supervise, and there's a gap there". One of the managers that came into our groups meetings from our department was about 30, and had a lot of people in his unit that were older than him by 10-20 years. He commented "We can work on that, and see what we can come up with. But for my part, all I can say is I'll get older as fast as I can". It was kind of funny. When you're young, all you can have is young enthusiasm. You're young. That enthusiasm is a valuable part of maturing. When you have more of life ahead of you than you have behind you your perspective is different. You push hard, longer, change and rebound quicker. Youthful energy is what fuels the world, be it at 20, or 60. The angle on life that there's reason and hope to move forward and each new day brings with it new opportunity - can't beat it. I don't see it as dangerous, I see it as normal. I'm still like that, although I'm much more careful about how I spend it. I thnk that goes to your point - mature and experienced influecnes, "wisdom" is needed too, at all ages.

Bell: People who expressed doubt, anger and frustration at the following meetings usually disappeared soon after. It was the lack of information that drove many of us to the internet. We knew there was more going on than they were letting us know. Sadly, that's still the only recourse for those still involved who want to know anything. Shaz: Stay off the Internet. You don't have enough spiritual perception and awareness (Way Corps) or ability to separate truth from error (PFAL), even though we supposedly taught them to you. We don't trust you to understand. Even a moment's thought about that has to make a person go hmmmm....Lack of information, detail, difficulty "fitting in" and being accepted if you don't immediately salute and say "Yes Sir!", reprisals if you exert effort to locate additional information... Because - how's come? As you noted Shaz, if everyone has the tools to do the job, why not let them go to work? Could it be ... The "F" word - "FEAR"?

Happy Sunday! Eye-catching input. Oaks: Funny how when one of the little people are kicked out, everybody has to hear them dragged through the mud, but when the big dog is booted, it's none of our business. That's a point worth pondering. That did happen quite a bit, didn't it? I wonder if it still does? Highway: Rico became a frozen-smile hard-@$$ who will protect twi's best interests at any cost. Your description of them is poignant to say the least Highway. It repaints Rico in a different light and brings another perspective to the discussion. It explains to some extent why he would have been a good choice for Public Relations Coordinator. He had, has good qualities. I can relate somewhat to the thoughtful part. Thinking is good. I see in your post a great point - it's important to keep thinking. It took her a long time to decide to believe in twi and God at all, but once she did, she too was sold out. Again, learning "is an exciting adventure". At certain points in the adventure we draw and reach conclusions. I've found - and this is just an obsevation, anecdotal - that the learning can continue, even in a confined context with restrictions like the Way promotes. Life's experience tends to authenticate "the truth" of life, even though we don't always recognize it immediately. But over time we tend to learn through doing, no matter who we are. We can deny it but the lessons do come our way regardless. But - in the Way "headquarters" lifestyle of the "sold out" indiviiduals there's a pothole in the path. It's the repetitious pattern of doing things, over and over the same way, that they embrace. Down to every little detail, trying to control their actions and "believing" by controlling every little thing they do. There's less challenges, less "new" input or exposure. By keeping everything out, there's less in to work with. So the authentication process that's natural and normal to life is stunted, artificial. Everything supports everything that's come before, with little to promote new learning, progress, advancement and what comes next. And in life, something's always around the next corner coming down the pike. It's the way it is. People like Rico and Robin become, literally, what they look at, what they expose themelves to, embrace and validate day after day as we all do.

I'm still gurgling over the line "What gives you the right..." I suspect Highway that the emphasis was on YOU. You, you of all people, what qualifies YOU, what makes YOU someone who feels YOU have the right to question the almighty righteousness of the ministry that saved YOUR life and bad mouth US when YOU have NO RIGHT to do so?????!!!??? And on "the right"....what RIGHT do YOU have to do such things? You have NO RIGHT to do that. NONE. Yeah. Whew. That's good. I guess they sure told you, hey? Now - While I, socks, bring a certain panache and scinitillating insightfullness to any discussion, I will be the first to admit that I do comment from time to time on things that others would be better equipped to address. Still, I hope to add something, if only personal perspective. But our right to do so is without question. The world looks to the ol' US of A to be the beacon of light that shines out the message "Rights Respected Here!". Well, we try anyway. Sometimes. Sorta. But the right to speak, ask and question is about as American as a Two for One Blue Light Special on Made-in-China Fip Flops. Except in WayWorld I guess where rights are negotiable and have an expiration date attached to them. Once you're in Shelby County, get your papers in order because you WILL be rights-challenged if you get mixed up with the Way. Trouble is, those who DO have a more informed voice won't speak, won't talk, won't offer facts or perspective and have no approved platform to do so. And those who DO have the platform, like Rico M., make claims and then don't stand behind them. Why, I would have quivered with excitement at the mere idea of being fully informed. Yeah! That's what I'm talkin' about! A to Z, too. Then, shoot. They got in the soup, but must have run short on nuts. All outta nuts, and there must be a drought because they're still nutless. What can you do? No nuts. It would be wrong to insist on nuts when there are clearly, no nuts. Squeeze hard as you want, nothing. No nuts. By the way - this isn't intended to be an advertisement but I'm working on a small written piece, I hesitate to call it a "book" but it might be book-like in the end. It's titled "The Three Most Important Questions in Life", sub titled "And The Three Answers". This is, in fact, no joke. I, socks, am in the process of writing it even now and have been working on it since last year. You reminded me of it, Highway. Those WayGB dudes were in my wheelhouse, as they say.

It kinda went downhill from there... What gives you the right....?????? Oh yeah. Oh yes! Yes! Yeeeees!!!! That's good. Sorta reminds me of every lapel pinching finger poking bad breathed jerk-off I've ever met. What gives you the right? (note to self - carry a photo copy of the U.S. Declaration of Independence and Constitution at all times in case these bozo's ever take over the country)

Seth - I knew Rico, he was the WOW Program Director the year I went WOW, I had to deal with him several times on the phone and other wise. So, Rico was the WOW Program Director. Interesting. Not light duty, to be sure. Back in the day when there were more than 10 or 15 "going out", I'm sure. Oakspear: This is what TWI turned into in the 90's and 00's. No thought of actually teaching or helping people, nothing but circling the wagons and throwing those who deviated from the company line out. Adds new meaning to the phrase "Word Over the World". At one point they tried to "trick" me by stumbling over the pronunciation of "Twyril" and looking at me expectantly, seeing if I would supply the correct pronunciation! Can anyone read that and not chuckle? (chuckle*snort) Not funny at the time but looking back - how weird! Do you think they reported back on the successful "outting" of the dreaded and evil Twee-rile, Twighral, or whatever his name is?

she knows more of the "soup-to-nuts" facts than hapless rico will ever know!. as far as rico or any other twi innie ever exposing the facts "from A to Z"?........ROTFLOL!............not in their lifetime!!!............................. It's true, isn't it?

...sure enough, when he and his wife showed up at my home they had the printouts with them and confronted me for my online activities. I was officially declared "Mark and Avoid" a few days later. Your online activities... What kind of people monitor the online activities of the members of their church/congregation/ministry? That fax and research to determine who's posted what? That scurry around to stop anyone that might have a question they don't want to answer from even being present? Why the extreme secrecy? That's just plain chicken sh!t. Not to give chicken sh!t a bad name. That's fear, to put it mildly. For an open ministry that say they share soup, nuts and everything from A to Z to keep people informed, why such measures to insure that you - "no matter WHO YOU ARE" per the PRC - WILL NOT be fully informed? Because you might share it with others online? What were they afraid of? Full disclosure? "The truth shall set you free." Details? "The truth shall set you free." Bad publicity? "The truth shall set you free." Shame and guilt? "The truth shall set you free."

Today's Koolaide is that LCM is a far gone memory. Notawayfer - Yup, I hear you -"he's all gone now. The trouble makers have left". Story over. Or is it? The very person who made the claims to fully inform is still hanging around apparently, as Rico was on video not long ago helping to chase off and keep people out of the Way Woods who felt they had a right to be on the property. So, come to think of it he's been working the mic fairly recently. And what's really funny in a sad way, seeing the smarmy look on his face as he summarily and flatly denied that anyone had ever at any time made any statement to the effect that those of the Way would always have access to that property. He flat out denied, on video, that statement was ever made. Now - the fact is that VPW did make that statement. He made it with the assumption that those who he was thinking of would be fully supportive members of the Way at the time. So there's a matter of interpretation and application there that needs to be sorted out, but denying it was every made is untrue. I'm sure he was made aware of that and chose to make the statement he did regardless. So it doesn't cast a good light on his veracity or of those around him. So the problems are far from over. In fact, it would appear they're an accident waiting to happen.

Hmmmmm. Illuminating information on those years. Thanks everyone! Again, I know this has been discussed before and posted on. It's really interesting to read it, in the context of those years you all experienced firsthand. And significant - this isn't ancient history, old days long gone, way back when the earth was cooling and hippies sprang forth out of the ground it seemed, populating the Weirwille's ancestral farm. This is recent, involving the current regime that's formed at the Way, just a few years ago. This occured about 8 years ago, and continued in context for the next few years. So it's bumping right up into 2007, 2008. Chaster, hi! His being the PRC for TWI was probably the highlight of his career. Anyone know if he came from a Communications or Journalism background? Anything related? Or just an assignment gone terribly awry? :blink: Hamlingston said: I think they just couldn't put enough spin on anything lawsuit related to make it look "good". I've thought about that - lipstick on a pig, pretty much. The way they handled it seemed to be to go underground, stealth. Somebody must've gotten some Preparation-M and used it because it sounds like the basic message was "shut the f*k up and don't say anything that isn't written and approved". Which kinda makes sense - lawsuits and all. But what an opportunity missed!!!! Seriously, the chance to get the previous 10-12 years behind them by getting some fresh air in, opening up the lines of communication and building something based on fresh, honest and open effort. "Fully informed", indeedy. Oaks Minimal information. They must have known that the information would get out, so they told us about the lawsuit, but nothing more. The lack of information is one of the reasons why those of us who left 7 - 8 years ago left. Many of us turned to WayDale & GSC for our information because we weren't getting it "inside". Heck, Don Wierwille was dead 5 days before it was announced in fellowships. Yikes!! I'm catching again the simple point - "Mark and Avoid" was enacted for many of those who wanted to have what had, in fact, been promised them. What any reasonable person would want or expect even if they hadn't read it in the paper - Magnelli's statement that all of the information, noups to suts, R to M, would be handled so everyone could make up their own minds. OUCH!!! That ain't right. Innies-think about it. What promises have been made to you, in perhaps perfectly good faith by those locally, that won't be delivered? Will the rules change? Will it matter? Highway, thank you. You been dere, done dat and saw it first hand. We were told that since it was all a pack of lies, told by a couple where the wife ran the household, who had made demands on twi leadership and didn't get their way and were now hatefully and vindictively looking for revenge, that we didn't need to know what the actual accusations were. We were told to STAY OFF the INTERNET!! This kinda sums up the whole conflict of RM's perposterous claim to "fully inform" everyone - they quickly devised a well orchestrated and executed plan to misinform their membership - by denying them the very truths and facts that would have kept them fully informed as to the nature of the "lies" and their definition of an "attack" on the Way. An attack perpetrated by the President of the Way himself and those closest to him! Had no claims been made, no expectation would have been established. And of course, those claims were made in a press release. Were those statements distributed to everyone in the Way at that time? Did everyone even know what they were being "promised"? Contrary to the claims of their PRC, there doesn't appear to have ever been an honest accounting of what was going on, who was involved, what the problems actually were, when they occured, how they were being handled, and without any effort to establish a reliable and consistent plan to followup with their members throughout the time period so as to continue to keep them fully informed so they could ultimately make their own minds up with honest conviction. Rico said they "will", as Ham noted. They never did though. Call me a Negative Nick but doggon it - he sounds like he wasn't telling the truth. Or maybe he just got confused. Lost his memory. Amenesia. Had his cat taken hostage, threatened. Maybe...dunno. That ain't right. Or as Larry the Cable Guy might say, "I don't care who you are, that ain't right".

The word "privacy" comes to mind. Having it is nice. This isn't meant to sound pejorative to those that would use such a resource, but it seems there are "special needs' amongst the GS participants, where the ability to post and have them be more private would be a benefit. If that's doable, I'd say go for it. But there's always a chance that the privacy will be invaded. Posting is anonymous for the most part. Who knows who's who? I agree that aspect of it may be too unweildy to manage and eliminate all risk.

I wanted to add - like you RG, I look forward to anyone who can recount events that they believe substantiate Magnelli's claim. I'm keying on what he said because of what his job was/is - Public Relations Coordinator. He addresses the "public" and handles messaging that speaks to the public. One of the first things in PR is - shut up. Don't motor mouth. Anything you say can and will be repeated a 1,000 times, so make sure it's what you mean and what you want to have repeated. Like LCM - I can see why they put a bag over him. He loved to talk and rattle on extemporaneously on anything and everything that buzzed his bonnet. Once he got a head of steam going he'd amp up and go in a 100 different directions, with seemingly no thought for if he made any sense or not. That's my opinion of course, but even long before 1999, that's the way he was. Basically, a PRC's worst nightmare - someone who can't control what they say and defends what they say as being "inspired". Still - the PRC hisself made a clear point, in descriptive language - of the Way's history and ongoing desire to make sure their members know what's going on because they need to, to make up their own minds. I doubt that a man hired to manage messaging would mishandle such statements as he made. I'd say this defines what they consider "fully informed". It's "need to know - and you don't". I won't outright say the man's a liar - although it appears that he was. Maybe he believed what he was saying. Maybe he got caught in the cross fire and was as surprised as everyone else when he learned they weren't, in fact, going to be going A to Z through everything for their peep's. Maybe he got spanked for saying that and hoped it would just disappear. Maybe his alphabet soup ran short on nuts. Dunno. :blink:

Thanks for the responses. I now this is ground that's been gone over many times before, but it amazes me that such a thing transpired and their members could today believe it was all handled appropriately. To me "fully informed" sounds like a big bag of wind. Here's to whoever can prove me wrong. Somewhere between Magnelli's soup and nuts, it got pretty lean. RainbowsGirl - that's significant, I think. Thank you. Until 2007, nuttin' through tapes, DVD's or the Way Mag. 1999 and 2000 - I can see how that was a difficult time for everyone involved. It would have been right to follow through as stated though. By 2001, it's time to make good on the promise of some information on what had happened and what was going on. GeorgeStGeorge, thank you for that. Botkins - nice little city as I recall. Oaks - 3 meetings? One, he's being sued and it's being handled. Two, he's stepping down. Three, he's out, goodbye, see ya. I wonder now if everyone nationwide was supposed to have those meetings, and if everyone did the same thing in them? Looking back, do you think it amounted to them finding out more about what was going on with him and the others? (were others booted out along with him that weren't announced or just him, I wonder?) I've been told - second hand, but from a source I consider reliable - that when he got to doing depositions, he "laid it all out" and told of numerous similar instances and gave forth a lot of details on what was going on. That being the case, his original contention that the Allen lawsuit involved a concensual "affair" went south quickly, I'd imagine. Clearly it wasn't that "simple". He stepped down and no doubt it got complicated to say the least. I can't imagine what else went on during that period, but it got to the point he was stripped of all Way Corps and Clergy recognitions and fired. So there had to be at the very least some strong differences of opinion there as to how he was handling it. So it sounds like those meetings you had addressed "what happened" (to a certain extent but not fully) but not the "why". Not enough to make up your mind about anything. What's to make the mind about? Nothing. Someone gives a version of what's happened and that's that. There's no information. That puts people in a very difficult situation. All you can decide on is how to react to the report. Twinky, thanks for that. And no explanation means definitely no rebuke. Indeed - they gave the impression it was all being handled. By who? How? What methods were being used, what standards? Rosalie's job to do this publicly and comprehensively - one would think. This whole thing opened up that there's a threat to the membership of the Way - they believe the "Adversary" is around every corner. Clearly the "Adversary" had gotten in. What better way to handle than to have a "fully informed" membership, that knows what's going on and what the threat is. They've got people there now who think "he's all gone now" and everything's swell. But how could it be - those closest to the matters haven't all come forward and accounted for their own state and status. Or have they? I'd like to know if they have, it would make their PR man look and sound a whole lot better. Livinlarge - I completely agree with that. Yet, it would make good sense to draw a line and do what Magnelli said they "do" - lay it all out, once and for all, and account for their own stewardship of their ministry.

Browsin' around on the GS homepage links I ran across all of the News articles that have been posted there. My brain was kindled by the series of press releases the site has assembled chronicling the Allen lawsuit, and subsequent events. Notable are comments from Rico Magnelli, "Public Relations Coordinator for the Way" at that time. Starting at the end of the year and working back, give these a read: Wapakoneta Daily News - 11/07/2000 The Way International reaches settlement with couple Rico Magnelli, public relations coordinator for The Way, confirmed a settlement with the Allens had been reached but would not divulge any more information. "We are not ready to release anything at this time," Magnelli said. "We will release something on this at a later date." Sidney Daily News - 09/21/2000 Martindale leaves The Way Responding to questions about these reports, The Way trustees issued a statement: "The Board of Trustees has considered these matters very seriously at length and made our decisions because it was the right thing to do. We've had to respect everyone's interest here. This is all we are prepared to say on the matter at this time as we don't believe it warrants public discussion." Magnelli declined to respond to questions concerning unconfirmed reports that Louis Lind has left his job as The Way finance coordinator. Wapakoneta Daily News 06/28/00 Former Way member alleges wrongdoing Way International spokesman Rico Magnelli was unavailable for comment on the suit at press time, and the organization has not yet released an official statement. Wapakoneta Daily News 04/08/2000 The Way target of lawsuit A press release from The Way attorney Rico Magnelli contends the lawsuit "is part of an organized campaign to destroy The Way International." And then this one, in the middle of 1999: WayDale stirs up memories August 8th, 1999 Rico Magnelli, public relations coordinator for The Way International, said that the Way's policy is to keep people fully informed. "Anyone that has ever been involved in our ministry honestly knows that we explain decisions involving our ministry from A to Z, from soup to nuts, to our followers. This has been the pattern since 1942 from the founding board of trustees clear through to the current trustees and leadership body. We want people to be fully informed because we understand people, no matter who they are, have to make up their own minds," Magnelli stated. --- Now - the lawsuit settlement sealed the details of the settlement, we know that. But - the Way had a whole year, and a paid PR Coordinator to 'splain and inform what was going on. In 1999, Magnelli said they were doing that and sure sounded like they intended to continue. There were many details that could have been put forth about what was going on, had gone on, etc. PR Coordinators report externally, outside an organization. Seems as if Magnelli had little to say to the external media. He indicates the Way used it's well developed internal communication structure to inform people so they could make up their own minds. Was he telling the truth? Anyone still involved that lurks here reading this, think - before you assume that they told you whatever you "really needed to know", ask the question - why did this guy tell the "outside" world that they were so intent on keeping you "fully informed" - if you weren't? If they never did? If this site and others is where you've found out information for the first time? Likewise - are "they" telling you "the truth" now? Is silence golden? Questions that come to mind: Does anyone know if Magnelli is still the PRC of the Way? Anyone here that was in the Way during 1999 and 2000 remember them following through on the statement above to "explain decisions involving our ministry from A to Z, from soup to nuts"? During that time period would anyone describe their level of knowledge of these events to be "fully informed", REGARDLESS OF WHO (YOU WERE) so that you could "make up (your) own minds"? Where and when did you get an "explanation" of the decisions?

You're already a win-nah Polar Bear! Hi F.Un. I like your logic. Job certainly had a good shake coming to him, and it's a good read. My income's certainly increased, quite a bit since the last year I was "in" the Way. But there's certain changes I made that contributed to that outcome. Still, there's been a very constant increase. It's more than double, fortunately. Still, I can always find good use for more so if anyone's double downed and hit the jackpot, I can be reached at SoquesWillFindGoodUseForYourXtraDough@sweetdeail.com. Besides my own effort though I give full credit to the Creator and Father of All Good Stuff, who's seen fit to slide some sugar my way. Likewise family and other stuff - I can't say that I was all that robbed and ripped though so there's no rags-to-riches story to tell really. Well, I definitely have more "good" socks in the drawer now, and some nice pants. Nothing extravagant, but decent quality. I've gotten some very nice guitars too, going from one to many. So, that's nice. I have a nice computer and some other recording stuff. I never had that before. It's taken awhile but stuff seems to have come around where once there was none. More than double that, i I guess. Mostly my kids - man, I have great kids. My wife's great too. She's the same one I've always had but it's significant she's still onboard for the trip. Thre's some serious spiritual joo joo going on there. God's got my back. Wife, kids, can't say enough about them. 'Sall good. Plus, my kids are old enough now to know what it takes to meet their own bills so I've got serious street cred' in that department. Respect! It's a beautiful thing. My Wife enjoys Joyce Myers too, now and then. A little bit goes a long way. Joyce isn't my thing, I'm sure she means well and is nice and all but I don't get much out of her sermons and preaching. But this sounds like one of those affirmations my Wife likes, that sets a positive expectation and can be easily remembered. Nothing wrong with it, IMO. Why not double? Triple, you deserve it. Everyone does.

Hmmm. Right - I didn't state that Ezekiel means, today, to pray for believers to put a hedge of protection around them, as a protective measure against harm from the adversary, but there was a lot of that in TWI's intepretation of that verse. In this life, I believe there's an opportunity to help one another, in the right context and for the right reasons - "prayer" would be one, for sure IMO but not the only one, and in fact could be a waste of time for some people in some circumstance - like when something needs to be done.

"Standi(ing) in the gap" is taken from Ezekiel: Ezekiel 22:30; I looked for a man among them who would build up the wall and stand before me in the gap on behalf of the land so that I would not have to destroy it, but I found none. The whole chapter deals with Israel's condition at the time, and is a scathing reproof of the morals, ethics and conduct of the nation, it's leaders both governmental and religious, and the people, the social order of the day if you will. TWI taught Jesus Christ as "bridging the gap", a Christian view of redemption that's fairly common - man separated from God, Jesus Christ the means of joining the two, a bridge of sorts. Which He is, although that statement alone doesn't fully express redemption realized and accepted - the image of a bridge is of a means of access, transport - and Jesus Christ would be in the same way a Shepherd would be with a flock, caring for them. The end result for a follower of Jesus Christ is "pasture" for eternity, with God. So to my mind, the "bridge/gap" idea is a piece but not the whole. Big piece, but the bridge goes somewhere. Standing in the gap, think I first heard it taught in TWI based on the record in Ezekiel. Wall, the "hedge", that deal about "hedge of protection" figures in. Someone to do the rebuilding and take the place of a "stand" for God, for His instructions, people, way of life, etc. The aspect of service is foundation to that. If a society is far off the track of God's way of doing things - Ezekiel describes a national condition that's not that hard to picture unfortunately - a great deal of work needs to be done. In this day as then, on all levels. Under those circumstances there would certainly be some who wouldn't agree or want that kind of change, however, reading Ezekiel, I can see that there would be large part of the population who would benefit and would likely embrace and support that kind of change, it would be seen in political, social, religious, economic, all kinds of stuff. I guess you're making me think rascal, back in the day, my idea of that "stand in the gap" seemed to be something that had both immediate and local implications as well as much larger, broader ones. I can't really trace how it evolved, or what it evolved into specifically. The blur between standing, bridging, skiing, doing the backstroke, "in the gap", dunno. It probably came down to basic Christianity 101 - there's a personal individual focus as well as a group, "body" focus. Everyone needs help, and all members have their place. As you point out, Christ has his and it can't be superceded, attempting to do so frustrates the process that's been put in place. I would suppose today to "stand in the gap" would have to be based on a legitimate recognition of Christ's function with the church and a careful considered effort to support a commonly held view of a "successful" one, that gives "glory" to God.

How many "new' peop's are you seeing, copen? On average, is that fellowship "growing"? Just curious.

I forget. Tell us again, copen. Why do you go?

Sounds real, rascal. I don't really know what went on with his illness other than he'd been really struggling with it since the early 80's, at least. No one ever said exactly what he had, or what was wrong. Not being at the Way Nash you only heard what was sent out. Talking to people that were there, it was hard to get a fix on what was going on. LCM was Motormouthing as always, the interminable bore with a mic, doing whatever it was he was doing that month. Business as usual.

Nazi like? or a Nazi? He wasn't a Nazi. I'll bet 50 cen' right now, on that. The anti-semitic stuff doesn't stick, based on his close relationships with formerly Jewish members of the Way. It was no secret he didn't think what made someone a "Jew" today wasn't geography, he believed the Jews had scattered and were not united as a nation today. I guess that could be considered "anti-semitic" but not in the sense that he intended people harm or wanted them dead or something. He was into the right-wing literature and sources, yes. A lot of people are, for the information. Shoot, I read Reader's Digest, used to have a subscription. The deal with calling Weirwille or referring to him as a "Nazi" has shock value, but not much substance, IMO.