Kevlar2000

So sad and shocked to see this.  Steve and Emily were our Branch Co-ordinators in Maryland, and were the ones who initially broke the news about the Passing of the Patriarch brouhaha, in defiance of explicit orders not to share details with us "leaves".  I always respected them for being honest with us.

My sympathies to Emily and their son, even at this late date. 

I'm so sorry to see this so late in the year; I don't check in here all that often anymore.  I'm very sorry to hear this. Sudo's wit and clear thinking was always welcome here.

My sincerest condolences,

Kevin (Kevlar2000)

I'm just now seeing this. I'm so saddened by her passing. Prayers and kind thoughts for her loved ones.

Groucho and Dot,

Congratulations to the both of you! This is happy news indeed!

"The bottom line is this. I lay down for no one. I surrender to no one. I stand for my Lord Jesus Christ and I stand for God. I plan on speaking to the whole city wherever it is and uprooting the devil's kingdom myself and I will step on anyone and anything that gets in my way. So who's with me? Who wants to join the fight? Who wants to help the people? We're going to let them walk on our feet until they can walk on their own. Nurture them up in the word and love them. It’s a matter of spiritual life and death. For some, it’s a matter of physical life and death. We have what they need and we should be giving it to them. So who’s with me?"

In one sentence they talk about standing for Jesus Christ and God, and in the next, they will uproot the devil's kingdom and they will step on anyone and anything that gets in their way.

Once again, another ministry in which it's all about them and not really about God or Jesus Christ. Another group that's better, smarter and holier than anyone else. Another group that just doesn't give a dang about anyone else, just promoting their narrow mindset.

You really want to help the people? STFU and start listening for a change.

Let's see - hitchhiked a number of times as a WOW because I didn't have a car. Only one semi-creepy driver (some sort of clergy - why am I not surprised? ).

Hitched with another person from Baltimore to Emporia for the Advanced Class 1978. Our ride out there had suddenly cancelled, and my car would not have made it out there. Left Thursday night and got there either Saturday or Sunday morning (can't remember which anymore). Pretty much got back-to-back rides with fairly nice (and sometimes colorful) people. Ironically (or maybe not so much), I was more blessed by the hitching out and the person with whom I was hitching than the stuff I was exposed to in the Advanced Class.

Happy Anniversary Greasespot Cafe!

You can put new words to an old melody.

You can use old words with a new melody.

You can even change some words to an old song and melody to fit your theology.

But you generally can't change some words to an old song and melody to fit your theology, put them in a songbook without attribution and sell it without the permission of the songwriter.

Unless the words and music are so old they're in the public domain.

Even so, to do so without attribution is to pretend you wrote it. It's dishonest. Conduct unbecoming an organization purportedly holding God's Word to the highest standard.

I never saw much in the way of hymn-writing abilities evidenced during my sojourn with TWI. I don't know if it's because the talent and abilities for that kind of thing weren't there, or (as I mostly suspect) they were squelched by Mr. Wierwille et al. TWI had a real propensity for belittling what they couldn't understand or appreciate within the narrow confines of their theology or world experience.

...but I always wonder why anyone would want to go back to something so similar to TWI after they left... I mean, if TWI was bad, then wouldn't anything rooted in it be bad as well?...

Probably because those were the best days of his life, and everything's been downhill ever since.

OMG! Funny as hell and well done! LOL

Weren't there more graduates of the first way corps (not counting the original "zero" corps)?

It works pretty well on my Droid phone. Thanks GT!

500,000 posts at Greasespot?

I would be surprised there aren't more than that.

I remember seeing "ads" in the Way Magazine saying, "Remember the Way in your will."

I thought it was fairly creepy, even through my WayBrained haze.

------------------------

To start and promote a "Christian" service like elder care with the ulterior motive of reaping financial rewards instead of providing a blessing to their congregation is beyond unethical. I would suspect the level of service given would be in mind to keeping as much of the money given as possible, instead of taking excellent care of their elders in their declining years.

Sounds like it's time to start looking for a new church. :blink:

" 'Oh well - yanno,.... even if it had meant that neighbor = household..... Jesus said "love your enemies"...'

For the Way, that probably means, "Love your enemies...in the household."

That's the exact teaching I heard on the verse!!!

You've got to be kidding me! And I thought I had heard it all! Guess not!

Oh well - yanno,.... even if it had meant that neighbor = household..... Jesus said "love your enemies"...

For the Way, that probably means, "Love your enemies...in the household."

TWI has chosen the late 70s - early 80s as its place in time. You watch the videos and you're right back to that time in dress and culture.

You know, it seems like TWI and other similar groups have adopted the motto, "Polyester Forever!". Their rationale must be, "My clothes don't need to breathe as long as I do."

... I still LOVE 70's Classic Rock

Well, yeah, cuz it still rocks!

...it might be kinda fun just once...to get sh(tfaced drunk and stumble into a room fool of "believers"

Just try not to "manifest" all over everyone. ;)

IMO this group is continuing to propound TWI errors and false claims, stating as truth their own beliefs beginning with stating "The Bible is the Word of God."

This is the definition of the Bible that VPW began with. He defined what the Bible was. We all know, he denounced anyone with an educated differing opinion on what the documents were. In my view, it is dishonest to say that is biblical research.

It does not seem that these groups will ever come clean and state that what they are teaching is their BELIEF, and if anyone wants to join in and believe with them, fine.

But they continually claim their beliefs as THE TRUTH and that everyone else should believe it or else go to hell or lose rewards or suffer some other demise. This system is intolerant and has caused more trouble than healing IMO.

Don't hold your breath if you think they will change. They've invested too much.

You know, no one whose sole business and means of employment is biblical research and/or teaching and/or fellowship is going to include in their mission statement, "Some parts of the Bible might be complete and utter horse$h!t. Caveat emptor." They will spend the rest of their careers (if not their lives) making sure the "Word" fits like a schvantz in a vise.

I want to be someone who forgets this within 24 minutes.

Forget what? :wacko:

Oh yeah...

Wow.

I read that stuff, and I can almost remember which class I heard it in. I guess I could go look in my boxes of Way syllabi to check it out...

Or I could try to put Christmas antlers on my ex's cat.

Both potentially painful and pointless experiences.

Well, not the cat thing, necessarily.

Yes international numbers exceed national. I would argue about the "natural" tendency for the future. There is so much conjecture here. Numbers have steadily rose in recent years (post 2004).

Really? Steadily risen? By how much? Does TWI publish this information? I don't see it on their website. After all, they must know at least how many persons send "abundant sharings" through their household fellowships, so that would have to be the minimum number of "active followers".

Or is this just conjecture on your part?

You know, a number of things jump out at me in reading Mr. Lynn's email, besides its verbosity, the immensely self-serving tone and the "call to arms" to overthrow the STFI board of directors:

- The number of times he says he founded the group. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought he was a co-founder (along with S^e Pi*rce and R^lph Dub0fsk>- and others). Maybe in his mind those others are "cop-outs" and not worthy of mention.

And, though they had offered Mark Graeser a hefty severance package when he was let go after six years as president, they have said nothing about any financial remuneration for me after my 13 years as president and my being the “point man” who in large part built the ministry that now pays their (John & Dan) salaries. Given the facts of the case, I feel certain I could take them to court and win a sizeable settlement, but I will not do that because of 1 Corinthians 6:1-9.

- If he believes he should be compensated for founding and leading the group as a chief spokesperson and past president, then bugger 1 Corinthians; ask for it, and if they don't give it to him, sue them for it. Otherwise why even bring it up?

- The obvious attempt to link himself in people's minds with Martin Luther, the "point man" of the Protestant Reformation. Perhaps he believes he'll be at the forefront of a new "Reformation" of STFI. Just remember - Martin Luther wasn't all that successful in reforming the Roman Catholic church, and the movement took sort of a different direction.

Perhaps you (the email recipient and, presumably, financial contributor) will decide that the Board needs to step down...I would much prefer to see the vehicle we already have be rescued rather than start a new one, but I have no say as far as the Board is concerned. You, however, do have a vote-you can vote with your wallet. I can foresee (Is this prophecy? j/k ) a scenario where a large majority of contributors engage in what would amount to a “mass intervention” by withholding their financial support, with the intent of encouraging the current Board members to submit their resignations and assist in the godly transition to a new Board (presumably with John Lynn as one of the board members). (All emphasis mine - K2K)

Position and power. And how money provides the means and method to those ends. That's what it's all about.

You know, this is (at least) the second group with whom Mr. Lynn has been associated in a position of prominence and authority. Both have gone down the blighted path to the land of "epic fail". If I were him, I would think about what role I had in the failure of those groups. I would consider not joining, forming or "re-forming" any groups in the future. Maybe take some time just to travel, enjoy renewing his relationship with his wife, and visiting with friends and family.

Hi,

Skyrider, Linda Z is correct; it was 1972. Or thereabouts; I no longer have the letter, and I'm no longer sure of the exact date - it might have been 1973 when I got that stuff.

In all the years I was "in", I've never heard of anyone else receiving that letter and materials, and am wondering if I was "targeted" somehow because of my interest in music. Of course, I didn't go around asking, either.

I received a very similar letter from Mr. Wierwille within a year of my taking the PFAL class (1972). The tone was a little different, though.

He wrote about how the Adversary had really attacked the Way through the music ministry, and he needed our help in bailing it out, essentially.

He had sent 4 record albums with the letter; two of Pressed Down, Shaken Together and Running Over, and two of Selah. In the letter he asked us to either sell or give away the albums and send him $20 ($5 per album).

I ended up giving away the albums, and not sending any money for it. I was a little shocked and offended at the entire thing. I had just recently finished his class which taught me we were more than conquerors in every situation, that we were to go boldly to God for our requests, believing He would be our sufficiency, and then I get a letter with unsolicited material begging me to send money to TWI. I never felt it was my obligation to send money for this, especially given the begging tone of the letter, and the albums were not requested by me.

I notice, though, that the tone of the begging changed from the letter that I got to the WOW auditorium letter. It went from, "Hey, please help us out over this rough spot" to "It's your fault finances aren't going well for us (or you), and you're in poor health because you don't send us enough money, so send us money and things will get better (and we can build our auditorium, which you had no input into having built in the first place)".

I must have been "stupider than stupid" to have missed all the red flags over the years. Man, I hope I'm a little smarter now.

I have a letter that VP sent out concerning the Auditorium. Unfortunately it's not dated.

To You My Power for Abundant Living Grad:

[snip] But, in the dollars and cents category and in other material things, even including health, the Adversary has continued stealing from our people.

Apparently the people God has given me believe most things I teach them from the Word; but they do not really believe the truth regarding their money, their dollar and cents incomes, and tithing. I know the major reason WHY Way believers have financial difficulties and can tell you that they have neglected to put into practice the basic principle starting towards abundance, and that is tithing.

At the Word in Business and Profession Conference I taught that the only way whereby a believer can continuously manifest a more than abundant life is by believing God, His Word, and by practicing more than tithing.

etc.........................

The enclosure with this letter is a short work on the integrity and accuracy of God's Word that will dispel any believer's ignorance or wrong teaching and open God's floodgates of heaven, if practiced. Every believer is responsible to decide for himself whether to live his life in accordance with God's Word or not. (In other words, if you don't give us your money, you're not doing God's Will, and you will subsequently be screwed over by The Almighty.) Why don't you just try it? Give God an opportunity to prove it to you. Keep good financial records and you'll see. etc....................................... Bless you real good.

Faithfully,

In His service,

Victor Paul Wierwille

P.S. The ministry desperately needs the Word Over the World Auditorium. As every believer is instructed in God's Word to speak much in tongues in order to remain spiritually sharp, so the abundant sharing, beyond the tithe, will take care of a lot of financial, material, and physical opportunities. If you are practicing abundant sharing, which begins beyond the tithe, I want to encourage you to continue to make that abundant sharing available to the Word Over the World Auditorium.

As of this week, the Board of Trustees has decided to take 15 percent (a tithe would be 10 percent) of all monies that are shared in the horns of plenty around the country weekly and transfer that 15 percent to the Word Over the World Auditorium fund.

(Note: bolded, underlined and italicized words are my emphasis)