Kevlar2000

...after playing around with some settings,signing out, signing back in,; deleting cookies (eating cookies) everything seems to be working correctly.

:)

Hope it's a real good one for you!

(snip) Maybe they don't care about the entire organization being rotten at the top....their little group is ok? I was told it's beginning to feel like the old times.

The old times. The old days.

I would find it hard to believe that anything concerning the Way International resembles "the old times".

It certainly would not resemble its incarnation from the 1950s and 1960s. I think most people who went through the PFAL class back then were older and saw Wierwille's organization and class as possibly interesting and intriguing, but not anything to which they were going to alter their basic lifestyle. Certainly nothing in which they would devote their lives, their money or their free will. From the few folks I've spoken with who took Wierwille's class in the early-to-mid 1960s, they viewed the PFAL class much as we would view a college class; they took it once, then felt free to do what the class implied to them - use the keys to interpret the Bible themselves, not waiting for Victor Wierwille to further explain it to them

It certainly does not resemble the 1970s. People floated in and out of the "Twig" fellowships as they pleased, and took the PFAL class (or not) as they pleased. Unless you were part of a formal program (WOW Ambassadors, Way Homes, Way Corps, Fellow Laborers, etc.), you did pretty much as you pleased. If you felt like attending someone else's fellowship for a while (or permanently), you generally didn't encounter a lot of static. You didn't have to let "leadership" know if you were going on a trip, or going to visit your family, or, really, going to do anything.

(Of course, there were always various attempts at controlling behavior by various individuals, but I'm speaking generally.)

It was the 1980s when attempts at controlling and enforcing TWI edicts among the "general believer population" became more pronounced, culminating in the Martindale letter to the clergy in 1989 (?). Coincidentally, that's the decade I ended my affiliation with TWI (as so many others did, also). From what I've read on Waydale, Greasespot and other forums, the insane attempts at control became more evident into the 1990s and 2000s. Even though L. Craig Martindale is no longer the chief dogmatic and mouth-foamer at the Way, it sounds like most of the policies are still in force, though not as overtly enforced.

And, perhaps most importantly, TWI no longer has any kind of "charismatic leader" to center their "believing images of victory" around. No cultleader of personality claiming (either implicitly or explicitly) to have a real strong "connection to God" to center their renewed mind around.

So, exactly what "old times" are they referring to?

Too bad they don't sell tights at Home Depot.

Taxicab, believe me; it's a good thing they don't.

LCM's ministry?

King Spit of Wurd Mountain!

My dad, being part of the Orange County law enforcement south of the area, had heard about all the hippies and drugs that would be in attendance. He told me no way in h e l l was he going to allow me to go. Wah! :(

But I showed him, 'cause a couple of years later, I joined a cult!

...The Way Mags are spell-bindings

Yeah, sorta like Petrificus Totalus.

...We do see way bumper stickers once in a while, but I don't know if they are current or really old.

I haven't seen a Way bumper sticker in almost 20 years. Do they still make them? Do they require their people to put them on their cars? Do they still mainly serve to hold their cars together?

How do I get the powers that be in this website to totally delete my account?

I'm always curious as to why any poster would want the owners of a discussion forum site to "delete their account".

If visiting the site is a problem (causing mental tension, confusion, anger, etc.) - just don't go to the site anymore! There are plenty of other sites to visit on the world-wide spiderweb of information, and, unless I miss my guess, no one is forcing anyone to visit a discussion forum site. Just let your account go inactive.

If it's a problem of having posted too much personal information, I'm sure the moderators would help to delete it from the site.

If you wish to erase all memory of your existence on this site and in our minds because of whatever, well...

"The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,

Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit

Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,

Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it" - Omar Khayyam

Howdy everyone! As my screen name says I am indeed a a graduate of sowers class 08-09. I will reveal my name and age in due time and for those who have followed the website closely you will probably figger out which sower i am soon enough. Im sure yall all have a bazillion questions to ask me. I want to say from the start, I am NOT here to bash anyone. I know the feelings a d opinions that are presented on this website torwards the WAY dr. weirwillie, the sowers program, and the word in general. They are not favorable. You are entitled to taht obviously. I do not mind people disaggreeing with me however, i ask you to be polite and respectful. If you wish to accuse anyone of anything, i ask that you do so only if you WERE ACTUALLY THERE AND EXPERIENCED IT FIRSTHAND! hereay from a buddy who may or may not be gossiping is not credible. It dont fly in court and it dont fly with me.

I dont feel like typing a whole lot right now, but i will take all your questions over the course of the next few days, weeks, months etc.

However there is one topic i want to set yall straight on from the start. Victor weirwille.

the grandson. V2p2 or whatever yall call him.

he is agreat man of God, and a great person in general. He is one of the most loving, caring, kindest people I have ever met. I heard him yell only once or twice in ten months, and that as because he needed to get someone's attention. I am damn proud to consider him a friend. When it comes to teh word he knows his stuff and tries his best to live a Godly lifestyle. BUT! he does not shove it down anyones throat, he doesnt think he is the end all be all authority on all things God, he is very humble, respectful, and someone who i will aggressively defend. I am not a violent person, however, if you want to make any personal attacks against him, you had best not let me know your true identity. I am willing to fight over comments made about him.Trust me, you really dont want a ....ed off redneck knockin' at your door. Somje people in the sowers program will claim they have seen me me angry. Well, they havent. My intentions here are not to fight though, so lets keep everything respectful and decent.

The floor is open for discussion.

Hello S.O.W.E.R.S Grad 09,

Well, quite an introduction. From some of the things you've written, I gather you've read through some of the posts on this site prior to your first post. You would be aware that most of the participants are not here to paint a rosy picture of the Way International. Many were severely abused as direct or indirect result of Victor Wierwille (the first one) and his Way Corps program (which, IMHO, was and is a complete epic failure). Then comes along the S.O.W.E.R.S. program, which on the surface looks and feels a lot like the Way Corps program, right down to its statement of principles and its motto ("It is written"), located on isolated farmland, etc. What do you think people's initial reaction is going to be?

...Did I get a lot out of the program? yes!

Would I do it again? no

Were there flaws in the way the program was ran? yes. were there significant flaws in the way the program was ran? yes. Did they affect the importance of the program? no. Did they diminish the quality of the training and learning i got from the program? no.

Would you like to discuss your experiences with us?

Way to go, Raf, Kimberly and all who decide to end their slavery to cigarettes!

My experience in this mirrors Waysider's; it was "just" this and "just" that as far back as my first fellowship (1971?). It also started creeping into interpretation and prophesy.

But I have also heard this in the prayers of never-been-way folks as well; not in regular church services, but more so in prayers from evangelical folks.

I had to conclude that the sun shines and the rain falls on the "just" and the un-"just" alike. :blink: :)

Praying for you, Fred and family, Kit.

If I lived in a vacuum ...

LOL Socks,

If I lived in a vacuum, my house would be a lot cleaner.

I think the book of Revelation was academically too challenging for him, and would too easily dislodge some of his "foundational" teachings if he set some of his "college boys" onto the task of researching it.

What else would "the teacher", lol, be afraid of?  His ego wouldn't allow for some college boy in the Research dept to show him up.

I'm not sure why Mr. Wierwille declined to tackle Revelation; "academic challenge" or the prospect of having his work stand up to rigorous academic scrutiny never seemed to perturb him much.

I don't think he worried too much about his "college boys" contradicting him. He seemed to have a pretty firm leash on that operation. After all, regardless of anything else he might say, it was implicitly understood The Way International, Incorporated belonged to him and, as the MOGFODAT (gosh, that's a funny acronym to say out loud!), he called the shots.

I mean, this is the guy that taught the original sin was masturbation, and admitted in his Christian Family and Sex class he couldn't prove it from bible.

So he went ahead and taught it anyway.

The end of days as described in Revelation is at least grazed over if not lovingly pored over by most christian denominations. For many Christians, the triumphant return of Jesus Christ to defeat Satan and destroy his evil forever, to establish His kingdom for ever and ever is the whole point of everything they endure. It is the "hope of glory".

And yet in the Way, which considered itself as the foremost biblical research and teaching (yeah, and fellowship) ministry in the world, the subject was virtually untouched.

While reading Imagine's thread about the Corps Principles (thank you, Imagine!), I had this random question:

How much training or teaching did you receive concerning the book of Revelation? Some? Any? None?

Was it sloughed off with the excuse, "It's for our learning"? If so, did you learn anything about it?

While my question is primarily addressed to Way Corps survivo... uh, grads, I would like to hear from anyone that received more than a cursory thought or two from Way teachers while in the Way. Thanks.

...Rosie velcroed herself to DM ...

What a mind-picture that is! Yeeeeesh! :blink: :lol:

that's the "odor" I detect in jl's pathetic "da way-it was" letter..

"sure, it was abusive, doctrinally and practically 'screwed up', but for a brief MOMENT.. *we* were part of da most significant MOVE of gawd since the first century."

ARTHUR:

Each evening, from December to December,

Before you drift to sleep upon your cot,

Think back on all the tales that you remember

Of Camelot.

Ask ev'ry person if he's heard the story,

And tell it strong and clear if he has not,

That once there was a fleeting wisp of glory

Called Camelot.

Camelot! Camelot!

Now say it out with pride and joy!

TOM:

Camelot! Camelot!

ARTHUR:

Yes, Camelot, my boy!

Where once it never rained till after sundown, (except at the Rock of Ages K2K)

By eight a.m. the morning fog had flown...

Don't let it be forgot

That once there was a spot

For one brief shining moment that was known

As Camelot.

(From Lerner and Loewe's musical, Camelot)

At least in some people's minds, it was Camelot. It was a time of their lives in which they considered themselves to be at their "personal best". I myself have many good memories of my time in the Way; mostly because the vast majority of folks with whom I fellowshipped and hung out were nice, genuine people.

But as I look back, I can see the seeds and germination of control and domination going back to my earliest involvement. When I finally left TWI, my compliance with TWI policies and procedures was not only expected, it was demanded. Nevermind that I was neither a paid employee nor a participant in one of their "programs".

And that's why I won't ever consider hooking up or aligning with "splinter" groups. Instead of creating organizations that mirror or replicate the Way, the heads of these organizations should spend the rest of their lives examining how their participation in the Way enabled slavish groupthink devotion to an abusive, destructive con man, erasure of personal boundaries and good morals, diversion of freely-given moneys shared for the "movement of God's Word over the World" to the pursuit of perversion, and the psychological torture of falsely accusing someone of being in God's extreme disfavor.

Then practicing not doing it ever again.

Eva Cassidy - gone from us much too soon. Thanks, Waysider.

---------------------------------------------

Excie, that is my hope as well.

And I hope there's a lot of singing as well. I love to sing.

I think I found the perfect analogy after I had my colonoscopy.

I gotta tell ya, TOMMYZ, I read that opening sentence and thought you were going to go a whole different route with that analogy.

I thought you were going say the technicians told you, "We saw a whole lot of splinter leadership up there."

(sorry, but that's just the way my mind works.)

What happened to all that "reaching up in Daddy's cookie jar"?

The more I hear about the inner workings of TWI, the more I'm convinced the current and former TWI presidents couldn't find their own "cookie jar" with both hands and a flashlight.

I vaguely remember hearing a special tape geared towards musicians in the Way ministry; Wierwille was having an informal discussion with some people (don't know who) and discussing how music had to be sublimated to the Word. If it wasn't promoting "the Word", it was essentially bogus. Somehow the discussion turned toward guitarists; he was irritated about how much time they took tuning and retuning their guitars, and he said something to the effect that they could take their guitars and shove them where the sun didn't shine. I thought, how foolish; any instrument that is plucked, bowed or hammered needs to be retuned during the course of a performance. Depending on temperature and humidity, perhaps a lot more.

But the tone of the discussion seemed (to me) to be dismissive of the people who wanted to play and bless others, regardless of their proficiency.

That tape was just another "red flag" in the series of red flags I was accumulating over the years. I came to the conclusion Mr. Wierwille may have known what he was talking about when it came to the bible, but he wasn't anything like an expert when it came to music and performance.

Of course, I have since revised my beliefs concerning his biblical expertise.

hahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa(ad infinitum et nauseam)!

I can't remember the last time something made me laugh that hard! Thanks Shellon!

OMG, 20 minutes later and I'm still laughing. hahahahahahahahahahaha!

"I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it." Jack Handey

Or they went in mild mannered and within 6 months turned into complete jerks. That happened too. People you really liked, changed right before your eyes.

This is one of the big reasons I never went into the Way Corps, and I had been getting "encouragement" to do so for a while. People I had known since I first was involved changed from being caring and happy-go-lucky regular folks into hardcases; cold and unfriendly, with the spiritual "thousand-yard-stare" and the weight of the battle/contest for the souls of men laying squarely on their shoulders.

That coupled with some of the stuff I was starting to hear about the Way Corps (attention to detail bordering on obsessive-compulsive behavior, sleep depravation, lousy food [my experience at the 1978 Advanced Class notwithstanding], expelling Corps participants for "unauthorized research", limiting the number of squares with which you could wipe your bum, etc.) made me realize the Way Corps was not for me.

Why this all didn't make me leave sooner, I'll never know.

Well, I do, kinda; I wasn't surrounded by Way Corps on a regular basis. Just regular people who loved God and wanted to know His will in their life. I guess I just sloughed off the crap in favor of good friends and fellowship.