Taxidev

18 minutes ago, WordWolf said:

"Alleged" lesbian runs the show.

I never heard about this until fairly recently.  What a s#@tshow!

Well, in just two pages of posts, I have watched the bodies pile up around me, and there seems to be more waiting in the wings.  It pains me to think about all this having gone on in the name of Christian love.  I'm just glad I was nowhere near it.  I'm sure you met some wonderful people along the way, but obviously so many evil people also.  I can only say I've met a few that were off the wall, but many wonderful ones.

What an education in history this has been for me.  Like reading the true accounts of slavery, and the true accounts of Columbus in the Caribbean.  The only reason to learn about history is to avoid repeating the bad parts.

It seems to me that I have nothing more to contribute to this thread, but I will gladly continue to read what you all post, even if I'm not so glad about what I'm reading.  I won't be commenting, but I might ask questions.

44 minutes ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

So fellowship with whomever you wish, but please be forewarned that R&R could be another evil cult.

I appreciate the concern, from all who have that concern for me.

No, I am not so young, I just was never as heavily involved as many of you were.  Since I was 22 years old, I have been committed to understanding and living God's Word.  I try to learn from many sources, and always have.  What I liked most about TWI was the teachings from my fellowship coordinators and others in my local fellowship.  Yes, I took all the classes, multiple times, and I picked up on the Way slant in some of the segments.  At one point the bloated egotism of LCM spewed right out from the screen, and I was just flabbergasted.  It wasn't long after that when he "stepped down" for his sexual antics.  In 2004 I did the Way Disciple program, which I found to be not such a great time.

Over the last 10 years my connection to TWI has gradually weakened until, about 4 years ago, I wouldn't even invite anyone to my fellowship.  Three years ago I was becoming really disappointed with the STS from Ohio, and wouldn't go to the hookups anymore.  Right around the time R&R was setting up their facebook activity, I was already considering no longer attending TWI fellowship.  I was looking elsewhere for biblical teachings with some meat to them.  Last month I ended my association, weak as it was, with TWI.

Through this whole thing, I have been committed to no individual, nor to the leadership.  I have asked many questions that went inadequately answered and, just when I was considering sending my question to the BOD, I was introduced to R&R.  It was then that I realized the futility of sending in my concerns and questions.  My friend here, during the building of momentum of R&R, did connect with them, but his view of many things they had brought up was substantially different.  He and I had many in depth discussions of very specific topics in the Word, and I consider his view of the ekklesia to be considerably more advanced than what the R&R group has discussed publicly.

I have always maintained an arms length approach to religious organizations, but I have enjoyed some great times with some wonderful individuals.

7 hours ago, DontWorryBeHappy said:

Oh yes I do Taxidev! I KNOW what  they are guilty of as well as THEY do.

The people I'm with locally aren't the originators of R&R.  They homeowner is former way corps, but only having been a branch coordinator.  And he is the most loving and loved branch coordinator I've ever met, aside from one other.

7 hours ago, DontWorryBeHappy said:

So I guess they’ve RE-written their “law of believing”, eh? Belef “has nothing to do with it”?? Then why would you care at all what the hell they believe?

You have the wrong impression of what I wrote.  I was referring to my belief, when you said "And, if you believe that, I’ve got a White House to sell ya!"  They aren't trying to convince me of anything, I can see what is happening.  You, however, cannot, and have jumped to conclusions regarding my local group.

8 hours ago, DontWorryBeHappy said:

Please post again when they have actually repented of their sins and their criminal behavior against The Body of Christ.

The group I'm with have no criminal behavior to repent of, unless you consider receiving the tithes to be criminal.  I said I can't speak for what is happening with the original group, I can only speak for the local group I am with.  And they are wonderful.  They have been wonderful for as long as I've known them, which is since 2010.  They have never been on staff, and have been branch coordinators since their first assignment.  You may have reason to criticize the originators of R&R, but you are way off base criticizing these people.

6 hours ago, DontWorryBeHappy said:

And, if you believe that, I’ve got a White House to sell ya!

You don't know these people.  You don't see what happens when we are together.  I'm telling you what has been happening, and you talk about believing?  Belief has nothing to do with it - it is evidenced.

You may know those R&R originators better than I, but you don't know anything about this local group.

Today I received the complete document from Dan Gallagher.  I haven't read it yet, nor even opened the file.  But I am looking forward to it.

Just now, waysider said:

Oh, they had an epiphany, alright. They suddenly realized they're not getting any younger and they'd better make a dash for the door before it can hit 'em where the good Lord split 'em.

That's a pretty hateful statement, and really presumptuous.  I suppose you know what's on their hearts and in their minds?

I understand you have an ax to grind, but don't cut yourself up with it.  Spewing venom is never a good thing.

27 minutes ago, Rocky said:

Do the leaders of the R & R RR conduct themselves like servant leaders?

Because the founders of the group are scattered around the country, it's difficult to say specifically regarding the whole group.  But I can speak about the local group I fellowship with.

No one is in charge, and no one from the R&R group tells us what to do or not do.  The homeowner keeps the calendar, only because then it's always there.  But no one is told when to teach or lead.  No one is told what to teach.  And all of us have been told they don't want any money, that if we want to give we should find someone else that is actually in need.  And the basis of that is what was ACTUALLY done in Acts.  The fallacy of the tithe has been obliterated.

The most highly touted principles of the group are decentralization, inclusion, and consensus.  Nothing is done in secret, nothing is decided in secret.  While it's still a work in progress, it has been so refreshing to be somewhere that is not stifling.  I actually, finally, want to invite people to my fellowship, something I haven't done in over 4 years.

27 minutes ago, Rocky said:

Did Moneyhands or Horney or Fort do or say anything that would lead you to believe they've had a genuine epiphany?

I haven't heard anything like that.  But I am late to the party, and I haven't been to any of their live events.  I was still attending my TWI fellowship, and only halfheartedly participated with them.

I basically have been enjoying their teachings, mostly because they go into greater depth than anything I've heard from TWI in at least 3 years.  And I did browse through their facebook page, but the posts there are quite limited. 

So my not hearing this doesn't mean it wasn't said.  Sorry.

6 hours ago, TLC said:

Okay, seems you want to go there, so let's talk about Paul for a sec or two.

Consider this, if you will.  As for touching the righteousness which is in the law, he declared (see Phil.3:6) that he was blameless.  That was before his experience on the road to Damascus.  But get this... how much value did he place on that afterwards? Well, I suppose how ever much dung is worth. (Phil.3:8.)

Now... which of these modern day, look-at-me-I'm-like-Paul folks do you suppose can honestly say that they were (in their former days) blameless (by any standard or stretch of the imagination), and/or is currently willing (much less disposed) to count much (if any) of their former life as dung?

Kindly let me know what your thoughts are after you chew that over a little...

That's definitely some heavy ammunition.  But I don't think it's a fair comparison.  Paul was taught by Gamaliel; these guys were taught by VPW.  Seriously not a fair comparison.   Gamaliel taught the Torah and raised up Pharisees.  VPW taught lies and raised up minions.  And the Pharisees were called hypocrites by Jesus Christ.

I have noticed that they haven't caught on yet to the wayward ways - no pun intended - of VPW, and it seems some of them still hold him in high esteem.  Maybe one day they will realize the truth about him.  But Paul wasn't blameless when he sent people to their deaths.  And I wouldn't say these folks were blameless when they did whatever evils they did.

As I indicated earlier, I have no idea what it's like to live through this level of atrocities.  I just pray that you can all become peaceful about it, whether you actually forgive them or not.  At least to have peace in yourselves.

3 hours ago, TLC said:

quite another to live a life anything even remotely close to what he did. 

I'm guessing you are referring to the life Paul lived afterward.  But aren't these R&R folks at about the point Paul was at shortly after having the crust removed from his eyes?

It's a given that I have no idea what it was like in the past with these people (I have only known a few of them for a short time), but Paul sent people to prison and had people killed.  Surely that would be considered evil beyond evil.  And if any of these R&R folks did anything even close to that - if God forgave Paul then He can forgive them.

You and I are certainly not the searcher of hearts, and I am not trying to pretend to know exactly what they are doing nor their intentions.  I only know what I've seen and heard so far.  So, you could be exactly correct in your opinion of them, but you could also be exactly incorrect.  I'm sure it's easier for me than it is for you to have a wait and see attitude, but that is the position I have taken.  And so far I have seen and heard nothing that suggests they are doing what several of you here have projected on them.  They have never once, since May last year, asked for money.  They have never once, since last May, told us what we should be doing.

I am waiting to see them grow further in their understanding, just as Paul did.  And if I am incorrect, that will show itself soon enough.

On 5/3/2018 at 4:09 PM, Rejoice said:

He's reversing on what he's taught for years.

I had this same question, and had done research of my own on it.  It didn't make sense to me that someone could be born again and then just do whatever they want and still be saved.

5 minutes ago, penguin2 said:

but wasn't his stuff in His past before his conversion/born again/met Jesus experience?

What's the difference, really?  Paul's was before he was born again, theirs was before they woke up (my own perspective).

23 minutes ago, JayDee said:

Did they answer any of your questions?

23 minutes ago, JayDee said:

No offense, please Taxidev.

No offense taken, and I understand your point.

But to their point, they both pretty much made the same point.  My understanding is this:

Whatever they may have done regarding anyone here apparently was long ago.  And just as Paul was guilty of harm, he didn't hang onto it, and it doesn't even say anywhere in Acts that he apologized for whatever he had done.  Instead, he moved forward with his current understanding, and that's what they are trying to do also.

So, no, they didn't directly answer any of the points made by some here that I forwarded on to them, but they did respond in answer to the big picture.  I find it interesting that the point they made was the same thing I had suggested.

3 hours ago, DontWorryBeHappy said:

Indeed Taxidev. Sorry they let you down. Thanks for trying. For those of us “old timers” still hanging around the GSC, this was totally predictable. Not saying, “I told ya so.” in any way. Simply stating a fact that we also have come to learn “the hard way” over the last 18 years.

While I will mention no names, I got two replies today.

The first basically said:
"Please don't waste another moment worrying about that random [person] (me) you met years ago. Our days are too precious to squander on the negatives. I hold no ill will against anyone and I pray that someday you may feel the same."

The other basically compared his/her past errors with Paul's:
"Thank God, Paul did not spend time engaging  in word battles about concerns that were decades old."

I thought they were excellent replies, and I won't be contacting them further about these issues.  But if any others reply I will summarize theirs for you also.
 

I remember the old "GreaseSpot Cafe", and I remember LCM using that expression, if you leave the Way you'll be a grease spot by midnight, or something like that.  At the time I didn't know what to make of the site.  Wow.

It is now over a week since I sent your concerns/questions/confrontations to the R&R group.  No response from anyone.  I would guess we won't be hearing from them.  That's pretty crappy, and very disappointing.

9 minutes ago, waysider said:

The Way liked to represent itself as replicating a lifestyle from the book of Acts.

There's nothing they do that replicates that lifestyle.  In fact, many things they do run exactly contrary to it.

3 hours ago, WordWolf said:

won't like it one bit....

Oh, well...

25 minutes ago, TLC said:

yeah, kinda like how the "we don't need or want your money" is merely a part of the salesmanship gig.  neither comes into play until you gets a little "warmed up" to the idea...

They won't see any of mine.  There's no reason for me to send them any.  I have finally come to an understanding of where and how to give, whether it's money, time, talent or whatever.  It doesn't go, primarily, to any religious organization.  Rather, it is to go to people or groups near me that have need.  That's what actually happened in Acts with the early church, and that's how I am conducting my affairs.

7 hours ago, DontWorryBeHappy said:

Are you still “allowed” to talk about GSC without getting “marked and avoided”?

That's funny.  I sent those posts to them anonymously, so I won't be marked and avoided.  I'm kidding, of course.  I have two very good reasons for doing that, but I am unwilling to share what those are.

But now, after receiving no response at all regarding the issues raised about them, I'm getting a sour taste in my mouth.

On top of that, I was reading through the "Revival and Restoration" section a couple days ago, from the beginning of it, and I was actually stunned to find they already had their domain name registered when they did that first live broadcast on facebook, saying they wanted to revive and restore TWI and they didn't know yet what they would be doing in the future.  This added some additional sourness.

On 5/13/2017 at 5:49 PM, skyrider said:

Rosalie moved over to vice-prez chair

I don't know if this was answered finally - I'm coming to this party pretty late - but RR only stepped away from being the president, but she is still the Chairman of the Board.  Sorry if this is a repeat of info.

3 hours ago, DontWorryBeHappy said:

Any response from the “titled couples” yet?

2 hours ago, T-Bone said:

meaningful response ?

that would be inconceivable

2 hours ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

I personally would be shocked if you received any meaningful correspondence from them.

So far, I only received a reply from one recipient, asking who I was.  I replied, "I am an anonymous intermediary.  I am unimportant."

Nothing more.

But I did notice the next day - which would be yesterday - there were several guests looking at this particular topic.

Grace, DWBH, and T-Bone,

I just sent your correspondence as three attachments with my own introduction in the body of the email.  It might take a while for any responses.  It went to twelve couples.  I just realized I didn't ask them to forward it to anyone that was missing from the list - I know of one in particular.  Sorry.

I also invited them here to engage with all of you directly.  Like JayDee said, I'm not holding my breath.

6 hours ago, DontWorryBeHappy said:

Feel free to send them this missive also!

You got it!